FPV Force 6 and Ethanol..

csv8 · 25-04-2007, 09:38 AM

Cars Guide did a roadtest with the Force 6. Using 95 RON and Ethanol. Result shows the cost saving isn't justified.
Force 6 on PULP : 13.0 litres/100kms to 9.6 Litres/100kms on the return trip.
Ethanol : 11.2 litres/100kms on the return trip.
The Force 6 used 1.6 litres/100kms more than 95 RON on the return trip.
Interesting ! motorists aren't being told the whole story on ethanol.
I won't use it in my Fairmont V8 or the Fiesta.
Anyone have ethanol stories ?

Ives · 25-04-2007, 10:08 AM

Well, the only ethanol blend fuel I've tried is the V-Power Racing. I've used it for a couple of tanks and it doesnt give better fuel econ. Engine's NVH and response is improved though.
7c/litre extra (from 98RON PULP) is nothing. I'd constantly fill up with V-Power Racing if it's always available

sfr rob · 25-04-2007, 10:28 AM

IMO, if you own a ba Fairmont V8, or a turbo 6 (fpv) you shouldn't be stressed out about fuel/prices/usuage.
You should only be using the best stuff you can buy in your car, or you should by a 4cyl.

BTW, the force 6 uses 4L/100km more than my 3v fairmont ghia does

csv8 · 25-04-2007, 10:38 AM

sfr rob my Fairmont V8 is a AU Seies 111. I run both cars on 98 RON. I wont use any ethanol blended fuel. Sugar belongs in coffee or coke not cars !!!

ReVd_uP · 25-04-2007, 10:56 AM

ethanol also contains alot of water, which will corrode your fuel system, ive had to do plenty of falcons where ive had to replace fuel pumps,filters, fuel lines, fuel rails (although BFs have stainless steel fuel rail and are usually ok) plus get ijectors cleaned, all because of this corrosion, not saying its all ethanol related, but definately water related.. gotta be careful where you fill up these day, shell seems to be shocking for it

exrtnz · 25-04-2007, 11:06 AM

I always use Shell v-power racing in my BA and had no problems at all. The car runs very good , fuel economy is good .

sfr rob · 25-04-2007, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

sfr rob my Fairmont V8 is a AU Seies 111. I run both cars on 98 RON. I wont use any ethanol blended fuel. Sugar belongs in coffee or coke not cars !!!

hahaha beautiful!
Cant agree with you more.

The Monty · 25-04-2007, 11:26 AM

Have used Ethanol in the Monty for over a year, no problems yet.
Fuel consumption stayed the same, it smells nicer when you put it in, I have absolutely no worries when using it. My car is an AU fairmont 4L and I constantly get 600-700 k's a tank, 70%highway-30%city driving. It maske fine power, and I ran a nice time down the quater in it, so its not loosing me any power. The only problem Ive suffered is that flat tyre problem Ive heard about it giving you.
Apart from that, has anyone actually had a problem with Ethanol? And I dont want to hear a friend of a friend story, I mean you PERSONALLY. Has it made the car breakdown? Ive seen and heard all these stories about it, and I havent heard from one person having a problem with it personally, just a friend of a friend crap.

TheSneakiness · 25-04-2007, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monty

Have used Ethanol in the Monty for over a year, no problems yet.
Fuel consumption stayed the same, it smells nicer when you put it in, I have absolutely no worries when using it. My car is an AU fairmont 4L and I constantly get 600-700 k's a tank, 70%highway-30%city driving. It maske fine power, and I ran a nice time down the quater in it, so its not loosing me any power. The only problem Ive suffered is that flat tyre problem Ive heard about it giving you.
Apart from that, has anyone actually had a problem with Ethanol? And I dont want to hear a friend of a friend story, I mean you PERSONALLY. Has it made the car breakdown? Ive seen and heard all these stories about it, and I havent heard from one person having a problem with it personally, just a friend of a friend crap.

You tell 'em Josh.

FYI, I've never used ethanol, can't seem to find anywhere here that has it available...

exrtnz · 25-04-2007, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monty

Have used Ethanol in the Monty for over a year, no problems yet.
Fuel consumption stayed the same, it smells nicer when you put it in, I have absolutely no worries when using it. My car is an AU fairmont 4L and I constantly get 600-700 k's a tank, 70%highway-30%city driving. It maske fine power, and I ran a nice time down the quater in it, so its not loosing me any power. The only problem Ive suffered is that flat tyre problem Ive heard about it giving you.
Apart from that, has anyone actually had a problem with Ethanol? And I dont want to hear a friend of a friend story, I mean you PERSONALLY. Has it made the car breakdown? Ive seen and heard all these stories about it, and I havent heard from one person having a problem with it personally, just a friend of a friend crap.

**** how did it give you a flat tyre??

Hitman · 25-04-2007, 11:35 AM

I used to use it in mu AU III Fairmont 6.
I never had a problem with it. I got better throttle response, and the car felt lighter to drive and more eager to rev.

The Monty · 25-04-2007, 11:35 AM

lol, old joke. People were saying all this silly stuff like, it made my battery go flat, and they were serious, till someone said it gave me a flat tyre. It was classic, so I stole the quote.

exrtnz · 25-04-2007, 11:37 AM

oh yep, im thinking of trying Bp ultimate ,some say its better

flappist · 25-04-2007, 11:39 AM

YES, I have run Ultra98 ethenol (the blue crap) in my F6 and it was NOT happy.

The party trick behind ethanol is that it seems to convince your ECU to run the car leaner amd therefore it appears to go better. This is ok if your car is tuned "safely" to compemsate for crap petrol. i.e. you have a factory tune.
If you have a tune that is closer to stych then it may over lean and if you are lucky all that will happen is the knock sensors will retard it. If not then the melting valves and pistons will slow it down.

The calorific content of ethanol is less than that of hexane and heptane (the majority of what petrol is made of) and therefore CANNOT produce more energy per litre.

It is all a marketing trick to make the goverment look good to the eco freaks and farmers.

flappist · 25-04-2007, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exrtnz

oh yep, im thinking of trying Bp ultimate ,some say its better

In Brisvegas Vortex98 and Ultimate are the ducks guts, Synergy 8000 is not available yet.

FPV8U · 25-04-2007, 11:56 AM

Stick to BP Ultimate and your in good hands.

nugget378 · 25-04-2007, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReVd_uP

ethanol also contains alot of water, which will corrode your fuel system, ive had to do plenty of falcons where ive had to replace fuel pumps,filters, fuel lines, fuel rails (although BFs have stainless steel fuel rail and are usually ok) plus get ijectors cleaned, all because of this corrosion, not saying its all ethanol related, but definately water related.. gotta be careful where you fill up these day, shell seems to be shocking for it

Ethanol does not contain water,it is hygroscopic,meaning it will pull moisture from the air,thats how it gets there,all alcohol fuels do this.
Having a lower calorific value however dose'nt mean it will make less power,there is more to it than that,methanol has lower values than race fuels but will make more power.

flappist · 25-04-2007, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugget378

Ethanol does not contain water,it is hygroscopic,meaning it will pull moisture from the air,thats how it gets there,all alcohol fuels do this.
Having a lower calorific value however dose'nt mean it will make less power,there is more to it than that,methanol has lower values than race fuels but will make more power.

Yes but it uses more methanol in volume than the equivelent volume of petrol doesn't it?

Kerosene can produce lots of power too, jumbo jets run on it. Try that in your car. It might be fun to watch.

And you buy petrol by the litre not joule/kg....

yift · 25-04-2007, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

In Brisvegas Vortex98 and Ultimate are the ducks guts, Synergy 8000 is not available yet.

synergy 8000 not available yet?? geez i been using it for a few years now, doesnt respond aswell as vortex or ultimate but every motor is different.

flappist · 25-04-2007, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by me

In Brisvegas Vortex98 and Ultimate are the ducks guts, Synergy 8000 is not available yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yift

synergy 8000 not available yet?? geez i been using it for a few years now, doesnt respond aswell as vortex or ultimate but every motor is different.

Yeh but the 2000km drive to Victoria makes it a bit too expensive.

You do realise that the whole world is not in Melbourne dont you?

Sledgehammer · 25-04-2007, 05:47 PM

I believe that the E10 is only 97% efficient in comparison to "normal fuel". Some tech whiz could explain / verify this further but its even disclosed in the fine print by the Qld govt release...

FGX-351 · 25-04-2007, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Yeh but the 2000km drive to Victoria makes it a bit too expensive.

You do realise that the whole world is not in Melbourne dont you?

Theres synergy 8000 here at Bracken Ridge in Brisbane.

flappist · 25-04-2007, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-ShowStoPPa

Theres synergy 8000 here at Bracken Ridge in Brisbane.

How long has it been there? According to Mobil they are not selling it QLD yet as it is too expensive to get here.

prydey · 25-04-2007, 11:01 PM

i read an article just recently regarding negative effects starting to show after ethanol being used for 12 months on a test vehicle. not sure if that was posted on here or carsguide or somewhere.

i'll never use it. bp ultimate all the way here. tried v-power but noticed no benefit and less km's per tank. tried synergy 8000 too but for the last 10 yrs and into the future its exclusively ultimate for me.

bp don't discount their fuel and i reckon there's a good reason for that.

Zed7fiddy · 26-04-2007, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Axe

You tell 'em Josh.

FYI, I've never used ethanol, can't seem to find anywhere here that has it available...

Kenny they have it at the Ettamogah Pub and At the BP at the start of the motorway in mooloolaba.

Possibly a few more places too?

GXL078 · 26-04-2007, 03:34 AM

Ethanol is for drinking

:

Lukeyson · 26-04-2007, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

You do realise that the whole world is not in Melbourne dont you?

HAHAHA that made my morning

boris · 26-04-2007, 07:11 AM

Chemical values etc are not really relevant, as eco fuels are here to stay. It's more a fact of how can you design an engine to run well on these fuels. Look at LPG it has a octane rating of close to 110 ron, yet we run them in engines designed for petrol with a lower octane rating and wonder why we get less performance, if we ran LPG in an engine designed for it ( high compression etc.) we would be quite impressed. We just have to find ways to get these eco fuels to run economically or governments will ban the internal combustion engine and we'll end up driving electric cars, and I don't think a 240kw sewing machine sounds as cool as a boss v8 or a turobo inline six!

blackers10 · 26-04-2007, 07:11 AM

BP now only sells ethanol blended Regular unleaded ... or at least at the Morayfield
Road site (just been refurbished)
and it was 117.9(ethanol added) when opposite was a 7/11 with 116.9(regular ULP)
at the BP you had to get a lil card that had a 3c discount for using the ethanol fuel!!

**Grunter** · 26-04-2007, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

...This is ok if your car is tuned "safely" to compemsate for crap petrol. i.e. you have a factory tune.
If you have a tune that is closer to stych then it may over lean and if you are lucky all that will happen is the knock sensors will retard it. If not then....

I can't comment on the technicalities on Ethanol blends, however I've had the TT tuned to run on Shells V-Power Racing for sometime and appear to have no problems with using it. The times I've had to use normal 98 RON fuel either Shell's V-Power or BP Ultimate and haven't changed the tune to suit, it pings like a bugger on them both. Which sort of goes against what you may be saying, or maybe I might be missing the point?

Does this mean if I had my car tuned aggresively for 98 RON fuel that it would have a greater chance of pinging on ethanol blended 98 RON fuel?