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#1 | ||
Ford screwed the Falcon
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,029
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Another example of companies overestimating demand for EVs.
https://www.reuters.com/breakingview...ay-2023-10-26/ Kypez in 3 - 2 - 1
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Falcon: 1960 - 2016 My cars Current ride 2016 FG X XR6 - 6 speed manual Previous rides 2009 FG XR6 - 6 speed auto 2006 BF MkII XT ESP - 6 speed auto 2003 BA XT V8 - 5 speed manual 1999 AU Forte - 5 speed manual 1997 EL Fairmont - 4 speed auto 1990 EAII Fairmont Ghia - 4 speed auto |
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#2 | ||
Ford screwed the Falcon
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,029
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Falcon: 1960 - 2016 My cars Current ride 2016 FG X XR6 - 6 speed manual Previous rides 2009 FG XR6 - 6 speed auto 2006 BF MkII XT ESP - 6 speed auto 2003 BA XT V8 - 5 speed manual 1999 AU Forte - 5 speed manual 1997 EL Fairmont - 4 speed auto 1990 EAII Fairmont Ghia - 4 speed auto |
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#3 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,267
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Will be interesting to see how many Mach E sales Ford gets in Australia versus Tesla Y sales…
I don’t think there’s any supply pressure on Mach E, America and UK have gone off the boil…… |
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#4 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,000
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Quote:
Ford EV is like Chinese ICE - it's a new field for them and they have limited experience and are saddled with huge capital investment in existing tooling and manufacturing methods. Tesla is at the advantage here. |
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#5 | ||
Donating Member
![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,299
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I guess we'll just ignore that Ford had a production stop due to the fire issue (F150). They needed to stop to identify if it was a design flaw or a manufacturing issue (turned out to be the latter). But that would've spooked buyers. And the price creep happening on the car.
BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, the whole market is struggling in the US with the economy in the toilet. Just goes to show how far ahead Tesla are with their designs to make EVs so profitable. Ford need to change their approach to EVs. Toyota has recognised that and are changing their method to build their cars. All the learnings that Tesla went through years ago. You can't build an EV profitably using old manufacturing techniques. Mach E is going to be smoked in Australia. I love the Mach E (and as someone who buys EVs, I'd be their target market) and the GT seats are awesome but no way would I buy one, no matter how big a Ford fan I am, for $15k+ over a Model Y. Rear seat room is much less and the boot space is also compromised. Not paying a premium for a smaller car with less range, performance and a mechanical steering adjustment!
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My Ford Family... 2014 GT-F, Manual, Kinetic with Black Stripes 2021 Mustang Mach 1, Manual, Velocity Blue Last edited by kypez; 28-10-2023 at 02:24 PM. |
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#6 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,267
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Quote:
You’d really have to want a Mach E to spend that much more over a Y but some are like that….. This car could come and go very quickly if people ignore it, I bet they get dumped into internal fleet and then sold off as low km “demos”. |
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#7 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,454
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Another news Corp article on this quoted Farley saying people are not prepared to pay a premium for ev and are buying petrol and diesel at lower prices
Same here Unless you want to buy Chinese takeaway |
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#8 | ||
Mad Scientist!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 2,839
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Ford has just recently purchased a number Giga Presses for their production EV's.
With the Cutting, i wonder if this is just a cycling of new tooling to come online for efficiencys. |
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#9 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,267
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A couple of months back, Ford basically doubled production of Mach E right as early adopters walked away from it,
so total inventory suddenly ballooned to 20,000 vehicles. Ford then cut production back to previous level but they still have a ton of stock with US dealers - roughly 12,000 unsold vehicles that are starting to be discounted. So this is why I wonder about that $85,000 entry price point for a Basic Mach E, that converts to about US$60,000 That same model in the USA as a LHD model is priced at US$42,000, so freight and additional for RHD but still….. |
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#10 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Trinity Beach FNQ
Posts: 807
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Quote:
https://fortune.com/2023/10/19/tesla...not-tech-firm/ |
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#11 | |||
Donating Member
![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,299
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Quote:
Go look up the profitability per car vs market valuations.
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My Ford Family... 2014 GT-F, Manual, Kinetic with Black Stripes 2021 Mustang Mach 1, Manual, Velocity Blue |
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#12 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Trinity Beach FNQ
Posts: 807
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Oh dear Kypez. Please forgive me for having the audacity to throw in my two bob's worth, whilst ignoring the possible presence of your your most wondrous self.
I really shouldn't have wagged Kindy... |
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#13 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,267
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Quote:
Tesla’ s Q3 result was $4.1 billion, down 22% from the $5.7 billion earned in Q3 2022. And on the strength of that “bad result” Tesla’s stock price has retreated to $200 which means that Musk’s own portfolio has taken a huge dump but only if he sells…. In comparison, Ford earned a mere $1.2 billion pretax profit in the same period and I’d be willing to bet that Tesla’s profit is as big as GM and Ford combined…. https://digitalassets.tesla.com/tesl...3-Update-3.pdf |
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#14 | |||
Donating Member
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Posts: 5,299
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Quote:
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My Ford Family... 2014 GT-F, Manual, Kinetic with Black Stripes 2021 Mustang Mach 1, Manual, Velocity Blue |
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#15 | |||
RS The Faster Fords
![]() Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Westralia
Posts: 1,691
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Quote:
https://fordforums.com.au/forumdisplay.php?f=418 Nonsensical meme in 3 - 2 - 1
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Escort RS2000 Restored factory a/c and alloys. TD Cortina Unrestored 35 000km 6cyl manual. Mk1 GT Cortina Project. FG XR50 Daily. Last edited by Rallye Sport; 28-10-2023 at 09:40 PM. |
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#16 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,267
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Ford has a big issue now, it was going in boots ‘n all with massive BEV plans but now many of the
early adopters have moved on with little interest from buyers regarding its existing BEV Lightning, Mach E or e Transit. It’s really thrown a huge red flag to the brass, they don’t know what to do….. Europe and America are seeing Model E sales at around 5,000/month for each while Tesla Y sales continually dwarf those numbers. As we discussed earlier Mach E prices for Australia are simply uncompetitive with Tesla Y which is $15,000 less and more readily available. So it seems like to me that Mach E sales in our market will be way less, like in the hundreds not the thousands that some had hoped for. When will Ford start listening to its customers. A big problem with Ford’s electrification plans is that they keep changing them every couple of years, some might say that’s prudent to keep things on course but it also shows a distinct lack of vision and persistence. Back in 2018, then CEO Jim Hackett partnered with VW to access is MEB electric toolkit, agreeing to develop at least two vehicles at Cologne with expansion to North America. Fast forward to 2022 and the plans change to limiting the VW based vehicles to just two European models and then progressively, Ford starts replacing the VW sourced batteries and electrical components with it’s own equipment. I think Ford is really struggling with making anything like an affordable BEV, especially if it’s presenting Mach E as a replacement for its larger compact SUVs like Edge/Endura. In North America, Ford continued to tinker with the design of its Gen 2 mid sized BEV SUVs, going from the desirable boxy three row SUVS to a low sleek three row crossover in the name of aero efficiency and extending battery range. Guess what, the research clinics hated it, so now has these are locked in for America knowing that few customers want them….insane. Last edited by jpd80; 29-10-2023 at 11:28 AM. |
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#17 | |||
Donating Member
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Posts: 5,299
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Quote:
Ford missed the early adopters that paid a premium for EVs. They have to go back to their roots, make an EV cost effective to build and sold for a good price. They need to innovate again. Only the Chinese can build using traditional methods for a cheap price. Otherwise they'll continue to be an Also Ran in the EV space.
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My Ford Family... 2014 GT-F, Manual, Kinetic with Black Stripes 2021 Mustang Mach 1, Manual, Velocity Blue Last edited by kypez; 29-10-2023 at 11:21 AM. |
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#18 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,267
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Quote:
where they want mass rollout of BEVs but also expect buyer to pay premium prices. A huge dose of reality is arriving soon, Ford is not Tesla and cannot command prices like them, the European BEV Explorer is lining up to be a white elephant of epic proportions. I don’t want to be down on Ford but when it comes to electric vehicles, they’re all over the place and don’t know or don’t care about the intended customers wants and needs. |
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#19 | |||
Donating Member
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Quote:
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My Ford Family... 2014 GT-F, Manual, Kinetic with Black Stripes 2021 Mustang Mach 1, Manual, Velocity Blue |
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#20 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,000
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I'm feeling it'll last 12 months in Australia then be discontinued because Ford Australia will interpret it as Australia only wants Ranger rather than its priced so far above the odds
![]() Ford Australia seems to think it's BMW and Mercedes these days |
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#21 | |||
Donating Member
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Quote:
It's fortunate the Ranger and Everest haven't suffered a similar fate. Think because most of the market is priced similarly and there is a big enough feature/size discrepancy for the cheaper competition
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My Ford Family... 2014 GT-F, Manual, Kinetic with Black Stripes 2021 Mustang Mach 1, Manual, Velocity Blue |
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#22 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,267
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Quote:
but if you go to US domestic prices Ford is super competitive with Tesla Y and actually USD$1,000 less. Model Y RWD…………………...USD$43,990 Mach E Select RWD………….USD$42,995 When the more esearch oriented folks go chasing down figures like this, it kind shows how Ford punished RHD customers for all the changes required. Ford has to make a decision here, does it want to seriously go after those customers or is this just a token gesture to say hey we tried and no one wanted our BEVs? To me it shows us exactly the kind of take it or leave it disconnect ford has with customers Anyone wanting a Mach E needs to tell their dealer to get the message back to Ford that customers know they’re trying to rip them off and to go the F away. |
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#23 | |||
Donating Member
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Didn't help that dealers marked up Mach E's and F150's either. Quicker Ford move to a direct to customer model and ditch the middle guy the better their bottom line will look. Ford pricing a car at $42k will see the price to dealers be maybe 10% cheaper, maybe more. That's lost revenue for the company. With Tesla, $43k is the price Tesla sell at.
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My Ford Family... 2014 GT-F, Manual, Kinetic with Black Stripes 2021 Mustang Mach 1, Manual, Velocity Blue |
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#24 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,267
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Quote:
these markups are not on them, this is Ford charging premium prices and not passing on decent margins to dealers. By the way, the reason US dealers mark up prices is because they barely get $1,000 per vehicle out of Ford, it’s really crap the way they treat them and understandable that many try to push the envelope with desirable vehicles. Many demonise dealers but forget they are the groups who mostly on behalf of their customers intercede with Ford to try to get people’s vehicles fixed properly, I’ve had this above and beyond efforts done in the past. |
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#25 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,267
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Dealers need to go back to Ford and tell them how disadvantaged Mach E is with a $15,000 price gap.
The premium prices that European customers are prepared to pay are not comparable to USA or Australia. |
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#26 | ||
AKA "the other bloke"
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,966
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Pretty certain if my memory is correct some on here years ago trying to tell us Ford is now pricing at a higher level cause they see their products at a higher level,
Just like on the 2nd hand market, a buyer will only pay what they think a product is worth, It seems the electric vehicle segment is now finally seeing the results of customers realising that EVs have their place but are not a be all for everyone, battery reliability seems to also be creating issues for some buyers too in relation to risks of thermal runaway. It’s safe to say I think that EV and ICE will both have a place for a long time yet and it’s probably why makers like Toyota have not fully jumped into the EV segment yet perhaps?
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Her's: 2000 AU II Fairmont Ghia 75th anniversary VCT meteorite & 2014 yaris - white His Toy: 2012 fg II GT-E, emperor red His: VS Ute 5 Litre 5 speed (povo pack) His: 2012 FG II GS, Vanish His: 2003 BA GT-P, Lightening Strike Jnr: 2002 AU III Falcon XR6 ST, 5 speed Blueprint & 1978 XC Fairmont Neptune Blue Previous: 1976 HX 50th Anniversary Kingswood 2014 FGX G6E Turbo 1980 XD Falcon GL 2003 BA Falcon XR6 1991 EB Falcon S 1989 EA Fairmont 1982 XE Fairmont 1968 XT Falcon |
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#28 | |||
Donating Member
![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,299
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Quote:
Yes and no for them to co-exist. If govts push with policies, ICE will be relegated to secondhand only. ![]()
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My Ford Family... 2014 GT-F, Manual, Kinetic with Black Stripes 2021 Mustang Mach 1, Manual, Velocity Blue |
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#29 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,267
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Quote:
If it’s truly uncompetitive prices, then dealers will soon be telling Ford not to bother. Last edited by jpd80; 29-10-2023 at 03:47 PM. |
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#30 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,000
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Quote:
However, when it comes to EV they've got no experience and they're marketing themselves like its a premium product when really they've got absolutely no runs on the board compared to the established market leader (Tesla). If I was responsible for pricing at Ford Australia I'd be trying to undercut the Model Y and if they can't because of dealership network then the next thing I'd be looking at is launching our EV range through agency model only. Ford dealerships keep their access to ICE, but with Ford EVs its ala Tesla and maybe that allows them to offer a lower price while making more money by cutting out the middle man. Does anyone here actually enjoy the experience of buying new cars? Its such a pain in the ***, the industry has been dragging its feet refusing to create better customer experiences. |
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