BF BA XR6T 1/4 Stock Times

[Bobsbarra]

Hey guys ive read online that 100% stock Bf turbos with ZF gearboxes are meant to run 13.7 ive taken my car down to the drags ive run a few 14.3's with auto shift and car shifting by its self and ive got very low takeoff times, and then ive read another fourm and guys on there said that 14.3 is about the best you will get with a stock BF turbo so im just curious as to what times you guys have ran.

Thanks

[SpoolMan]

Stock I have seen a BF F6 run 12.7, my F6 run 13.1 stock.
the F6 had a bit more boost from factory over the XR.

[FPV GTHO]

I think NA6 ZF's have gone as low as 14.4. Definately some time left out there if you're doing 14.3.

[HULK_I6T]

depends on conditions too. A hot day with a heatsoaked BF i6t with that itty-bitty intercooler wont run its best. tyres/wheels as well could count. full tank, empty tank all count.

I certainly feel a mid to high 13 is very reasonable for these cars bog stock.

I remember my bf turbo stock and it didnt feel slow compared to my LS1 that ran mid 13s in full street trim.

the real beauty of these cars is not what they can do stock, its with some mild mods.. injectors, tune, intercooler, pump, actuator, dump-cat pipe. Mine is now a rocket.

[2242100]

Originally Posted by HULK_I6T

depends on conditions too. A hot day with a heatsoaked BF i6t with that itty-bitty intercooler wont run its best. tyres/wheels as well could count. full tank, empty tank all count.

I certainly feel a mid to high 13 is very reasonable for these cars bog stock.

I remember my bf turbo stock and it didnt feel slow compared to my LS1 that ran mid 13s in full street trim.

the real beauty of these cars is not what they can do stock, its with some mild mods.. injectors, tune, intercooler, pump, actuator, dump-cat pipe. Mine is now a rocket.

A friends stock and untuned BF XR6 Turbo Auto ran a 13.6 quarter at Willowbank under good conditions, end speed about 169 km/h.

To put that into perspective as far as 0-100 km/h times are concerned, that car has since managed a low 5.6 second 0-100 time under fairly good, but not perfect conditions (measured by a GPS based Performance Box the same as Motoring Magazines use).
I suspect that another couple of tenths lower might just be possible under excellent conditions.

With a car having that performance profile, a 5.4 second 0-100 time would likely result in a 13.6 second 400 metre time. But at a Dragstrip with the car shallow staged (and getting maximum rollout before the time count starts), I'd expect that about a 13.3 quarter time slip should be possible.

Of course it's all very dependent on how well the car leaves the start line.

[Road Games]

14.1 around 103 mph is the norm for STOCK 245kw BF zf equipped cars I have raced...

Stock Typhoons into the 12's @ 108mph in winter time easy...

Makes ya proud when your n/a 6 is in the 13.4s @ 104mph

[Cranky243]

Fella went to Heathcote last weekend and went 13.4 in his stock ZF BF XR6T as driven daily.

[2242100]

Originally Posted by Bobsbarra

Hey guys ive read online that 100% stock Bf turbos with ZF gearboxes are meant to run 13.7 ive taken my car down to the drags ive run a few 14.3's with auto shift and car shifting by its self and ive got very low takeoff times, and then ive read another fourm and guys on there said that 14.3 is about the best you will get with a stock BF turbo so im just curious as to what times you guys have ran.

Thanks

A couple of things to consider are.
1) Did you shallow or deep stage the car. That can typically have up to a 4 tenth effect on times.
2) Did you use 91 RON (RESEARCH OCTANE NUMBER) unleaded, or 94/95 RON E10 fuel, or 95 RON Premium fuel, or 98 RON Premium fuel.
I understand that 91 and 94/95 E10 fuels have a similar, or the same important MOTOR OCTANE NUMBER that is lower than 95 and 98 Premium fuels.
I've just found out that my stock FG XR6T loses 10% of it's rolling pace on 91 fuel vs 98 Premium.
So if you didn't use 98 or perhaps 95 Premium (I understand 95 Premium has a close MOTOR OCTANE NUMBER to 98 Premium, I think it's generally about 1 point less) then you might want to try these fuels.
Then there is the question of weather conditions. There is a good calculator on the NET that you might like to use to get an idea of how power friendly the conditions were.
www.wahiduddin.net
click on calculators, then click on, engine tuning using relative humidity.

[HULK_I6T]

Originally Posted by DAZZLR

Makes ya proud when your n/a 6 is in the 13.4s @ 104mph

A stripped to the bone race spec i6 full of mods and slick tyres?

Against stock tyred, factory bog stock full weight xr6t...

Odd comparo

[Road Games]

Full street trim except for et street tyres on that pass troll ..

Ring up Elite and ask them..

I don't know why I bother reading this forum , between your uninformed posts and your argumentative / biased / one sided threads ?

You have NO clue on what day I raced and in whatever trim I ran

Why would I beat my chest about a stripped out car v a stock streetcar ?

Grow the **** up !!!

[2242100]

Originally Posted by Bobsbarra

Hey guys ive read online that 100% stock Bf turbos with ZF gearboxes are meant to run 13.7 ive taken my car down to the drags ive run a few 14.3's with auto shift and car shifting by its self and ive got very low takeoff times, and then ive read another fourm and guys on there said that 14.3 is about the best you will get with a stock BF turbo so im just curious as to what times you guys have ran.

Thanks

I just looked at your public profile to see if your 60 foot time was posted and I see that it was 2.383 seconds.
If your car was shallow staged about as much as possible, then that's looking like a poor launch to me.
If it had been say 2 seconds neat with a shallow stage launch, then your time slip would probably have been around 13.7 or even 13.6.
The end speed looks slow though, which is why you might want to check the Wahiduddin.net calculator. The weather might not have been very power friendly.
I'd consider a relative power percentage of about 104% to be a pretty good power friendly situation (100% is at 990 hpa 25 degrees C and 0% humidity).
Of course if the Auto changed early that could help explain the slow speed.

[99AUXR]

Originally Posted by DAZZLR

Full street trim except for et street tyres on that pass troll ..

Ring up Elite and ask them..

I don't know why I bother reading this forum , between your uninformed posts and your argumentative / biased / one sided threads ?

You have NO clue on what day I raced and in whatever trim I ran

Why would I beat my chest about a stripped out car v a stock streetcar ?

Grow the **** up !!!

Yeap striped out NA car went way faster than that

[FPV GTHO]

I reckon these ZF cars must be harder to get a time out of than the older 4 speeds. I cant recall reading about such large differences in times from otherwise stock cars, ive seen anything from mid 14's to low 15's for NA ZF's and now mid 13's to low 14's for turbo's.

Getting a BTR/Ion/DSI to go quick is as easy as performance mode. I keep hearing ZF's will smash the limiter in performance mode though and need to be manual shifted for best results.

[99AUXR]

Yea my zf in my old XR6T use to always tag the limiter :/

[2242100]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

I reckon these ZF cars must be harder to get a time out of than the older 4 speeds. I cant recall reading about such large differences in times from otherwise stock cars, ive seen anything from mid 14's to low 15's for NA ZF's and now mid 13's to low 14's for turbo's.

Getting a BTR/Ion/DSI to go quick is as easy as performance mode. I keep hearing ZF's will smash the limiter in performance mode though and need to be manual shifted for best results.

I think something to keep in mind is that the 6 speed ZF's are lower geared in 1st. So ZF cars are accelerating faster and it's easier to hit the limiter. Also I've noticed from my GPS based Racelogic Performance Box data, that about 80-90% of the time lost in first gear will typically flow into the quarter mile time result. So if you hit the limiter at the end of first gear (say about 60-65 or so) and lose about 6 tenths, then you're going to get a 1/4 mile time slip that's about half a second slower (it's possible to work this out very accurately with the Racelogic software).

Regarding the ZF's hitting the limiter in Performance mode. On my stock untuned FG XR6T I've never had the problem of the limiter being hit in Drive or Power, but I believe it can be a problem when they are tuned or modified, presumably because they are accelerating too fast. I understand that the normal fix is to raise the rev limit.
A close look at my GPS Data shows that my car in normal Drive uses just about every rev before the changes, although it's not easy to find the shift points when looking at the data. The changes are seamless or virtually seamless.
That's part of the secret to their excellent performance I guess. I'd say they typically gain couple of tenths or more 1/4 mile time advantage (compared to the manual) in the 1/2 gear change alone.
When I look at what's happening with my car under full throttle driving, I wouldn't even consider driving it manually although I did give the transmission a bit of hard work (full throttle kickdowns) just before I got to the dragstrip to make absolutely sure that it gave the best possible performance. I reckon making manual changes work better (at least with my car) would be harder than winning the lottery.

[99AUXR]

Funny enough as the ZF doesnt really like the rev limit being changed and allot of places leave them standard on auto cars.

Plenty of reports of stock turbos tagging limiter on WoT, when mine did it I started a thread about it and there were quite a few.

[2242100]

Originally Posted by 99AUXR

Funny enough as the ZF doesnt really like the rev limit being changed and allot of places leave them standard on auto cars.

Plenty of reports of stock turbos tagging limiter on WoT, when mine did it I started a thread about it and there were quite a few.

Perhaps they fixed it with the FG.
It's certainly bad for 1/4 times if it happens on the 1/2 and 2/3 changes and with the 3/4 change it won't hurt the 1/4 time much, but it will hurt the end speed more.
Is it a problem with your current ZF Turbo or if it has been fixed how was it done?

[99AUXR]

Ford? Fix something

Seriously though your right, there was probably a PCM update that fixes it most people however never get them done.

[HULK_I6T]

my zf has tagged the limiter but thats when its spinning tyres and the revs just fly upwards.. under traction it wont tag the limiter.

for quickest times in these cars you would short shift at 5000rpm anyway, they have ridiculous torque

[2242100]

Originally Posted by HULK_I6T

my zf has tagged the limiter but thats when its spinning tyres and the revs just fly upwards.. under traction it wont tag the limiter.

for quickest times in these cars you would short shift at 5000rpm anyway, they have ridiculous torque

I've noticed from Dyno sheets of tuned or modified Turbos that they commonly seem to have lower than standard maximum power revs with a huge torque increase, so changing earlier might work.

I can't comment on when a BF XR6 Turbo should be changed, but my stock FG XR6 Turbo Auto does perform a touch better with max or practically max revs, which is demonstrated by my GPS data from WSID (shown below).
On run 1 the car was in Drive over the speed range that is shown (it was the run with slightly the best rolling acceleration) and I've compared it with run 4 when I deliberately ran it to the rev limiter (at 175.62 km/h) locked in 3rd gear. I did that to check how much pace the engine would lose over the last few revs.


Run 1................................................. .Run 4. Locked in 3rd gear
165 km/h..................0..........................0
170..........................0.63................. ...0.63 sec
175..........................1.37................. ....1.33
175.62 km/h on rev limiter in 3rd.............1.47

180..........................2.14
185..........................2.94
190..........................3.78 seconds

On run 1, it looks like the 3/4 gear change took place between 170 and 175 km/h or in about the last 170 revs, and the car lost 4 hundredths of a second over that 5 km/h increment
The performance when it was locked in 3rd only fell over in the last
0.62 of a km/h.

[mex351]

Originally Posted by DAZZLR

Makes ya proud when your n/a 6 is in the 13.4s @ 104mph

Well I still think mine is slow running 12.2 @ 112 from my NAT ASP 6cyl via crossflow power.

Should tap 11's this year with fine tuning of driver and suspension and still NAT ASP 250 cubes of cracker white XF ute.

[2242100]

Originally Posted by mex351

Well I still think mine is slow running 12.2 @ 112 from my NAT ASP 6cyl via crossflow power.

Should tap 11's this year with fine tuning of driver and suspension and still NAT ASP 250 cubes of cracker white XF ute.

Great effort for an N/A engine even taking into account your light race weight. Also a good end speed.
A few queries though, how did you get the weight down to 1380 kg's?
Also what was your 60 foot time and mid track speed. Did you have a lower diff ratio and a high stall torque converter? What temperature?

[mex351]

What I had for breakfast and lunch too... LOL As per factory a XF ute weighs in around 1380-1430 depending on spec anyway so there not a heavy car to start with. Obviously the car is no frills.No Stereo no PS no AC no heater. Just seats, seat belts, steering wheel dash and gauges.But I added a triangle 4link,heavy 100x50x4mm rails and bracing to hang it all off and full sheet metal floor and steel tubs.It really no light weight TBH but they all weigh that anyway.

It hasn't 60'ft well yet due to the rear shocks so far but it's 1.7's and was doing 88mph to 660 with 7.7'sec.It actually turned the tyres that run aswell as I got a bit on the converter.But the car now has double adjustable Viking coil overs and will cop a anti roll bar too in the future I reckon.

Car runs a pretty full on set up,roller cammed 250 50mm DCO webers,MSD ignition,awesome cyl head by John White racing,modded extractors and custom exhaust full manual c4 5500 convertor 4:11 gears and 27.s" radials.Just switched to a 26x10.5 tyre and a new camshaft as the old one broke and bent some stuff in doing so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjEl0sq68bY

Only running 12.4 12.5 here cos it was like 30 degree plus. Thats a LS powered wagon in the far lane it beats there.