Squeaky Brakes, fixed with Wheel Alignment

AU Mont · 05-03-2012, 08:38 PM

Wife's car, 08' Liberty...... front brakes squealed like all buggery since we bought it. Brake dust painted the wheels straight away after cleaning.

Had the rotors machined, left the pads...... still squealed

Had a wheel alignment done by bridgestone to fix a pulling issue, nothing changed.

Last week found inside of tyres were down to canvas from poor alignment, so new tyres were fitted, and in it went to Holden (recommend by tyre place) for another wheel alignment. Apparently it had minor toe out, so they changed it to toe in (not sure on exact specs).

Car doesnt pull anymore, but magically the brakes do not squeal AT ALL since. Wheels, no more brake dust.

We are damn happy but how did the wheel alignment stop the brakes squealing? I remember my previous AU had noisy brakes, even after having the pads & rotors replaced with new....... maybe i should of taken it in for a decent wheel alignment lol

39ClevoUte · 05-03-2012, 08:52 PM

There always a small amount of movement on the bearings, wheel alighnment being out means the tyres/wheels will flex on axel to try and stay straight and will misalighn the disc to the pads/caliper. This can also happen if bearings need to be nipped up. If left long enough the pads will wear out of square and all sort of noise and brake issue happen.

svo supporter · 06-03-2012, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54Ghia

There always a small amount of movement on the bearings, wheel alighnment being out means the tyres/wheels will flex on axel to try and stay straight and will misalighn the disc to the pads/caliper. This can also happen if bearings need to be nipped up. If left long enough the pads will wear out of square and all sort of noise and brake issue happen.

The disc/caliper/ bearing assembley remain fixed into position. By adjusting the tierod end, you're moving the whole rotor/caliper/bearing assembley as a unit, not moving the rotor/ caliper/bearing seperately to dislodge brake dust.

To answer the Op's query. I have no idea. Been doing alignments for years and never heard this before. I can only assume, they removed the wheel and blew the brake dust away to prevent the squeel you're reporting.

pottery beige · 06-03-2012, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

The disc/caliper/ bearing assembley remain fixed into position. By adjusting the tierod end, you're moving the whole rotor/caliper/bearing assembley as a unit, not moving the rotor/ caliper/bearing seperately to dislodge brake dust.

To answer the Op's query. I have no idea. Been doing alignments for years and never heard this before. I can only assume, they removed the wheel and blew the brake dust away to prevent the squeel you're reporting.

54ghia is right.. toe in or toe out will have an effect on where that disc will run in regards to the bearing free play.......

svo supporter · 06-03-2012, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pottery beige

54ghia is right.. toe in or toe out will have an effect on where that disc will run in regards to the bearing free play.......

Nope.....You're moving the stub axle assembley, not the disc and bearing as seperate items.

39ClevoUte · 06-03-2012, 07:07 PM

When the toe in or out is wrong, say to much toe in, the bearing slack will be pulled all over one side as the wheels try to pull themselves straight. Normally the disks / wheels free wheel on the slack, however now they are skewed sideways. This can cause the discs to permanently rub the edges of the pads and cause noise, heat and other nasties.

AU Mont · 06-03-2012, 07:45 PM

makes sense.

there you go, sometimes the pads arent to blame.

svo supporter · 06-03-2012, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54Ghia

When the toe in or out is wrong, say to much toe in, the bearing slack will be pulled all over one side as the wheels try to pull themselves straight. Normally the disks / wheels free wheel on the slack, however now they are skewed sideways. This can cause the discs to permanently rub the edges of the pads and cause noise, heat and other nasties.

The bearing is "fixed" on the stub axle. Seeing as you're moving the stub axle as part of the adjustment, I fail to see how it could be skewing the bearing.

pottery beige · 06-03-2012, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

The bearing is "fixed" on the stub axle. Seeing as you're moving the stub axle as part of the adjustment, I fail to see how it could be skewing the bearing.

slight skewing if you like... just taking up the clearance / freeplay in the bearing..

39ClevoUte · 06-03-2012, 08:53 PM

I see we are probably at crossed purposes. I guess in general all bearings have some movement or slack between the inner and outer. The inner is attached to the stub and the wheel is attached to the outer. Depending on wear, adjustment and other stuff if you grab the wheel there will be some movement, even if you can't feel it. With the alighnment out of adjustment this "slack" will be pulled to one side. This slack can be enough to cause the disc to rotate crooked, could only be talking thou's. This can be enough to cause a squeak.

mik · 06-03-2012, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

The bearing is "fixed" on the stub axle. Seeing as you're moving the stub axle as part of the adjustment, I fail to see how it could be skewing the bearing.

i think he`s meaning the small amount of looseness/play if any in the wheel bearing/s maybe taken up/altered to a different direction by the either toe in or toe out adjustment, toe in the tyre/wheels being pulled inwards at the front by the road forces acting upon them, toe out the reverse happening.

svo supporter · 07-03-2012, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54Ghia

I see we are probably at crossed purposes. I guess in general all bearings have some movement or slack between the inner and outer. The inner is attached to the stub and the wheel is attached to the outer. Depending on wear, adjustment and other stuff if you grab the wheel there will be some movement, even if you can't feel it. With the alighnment out of adjustment this "slack" will be pulled to one side. This slack can be enough to cause the disc to rotate crooked, could only be talking thou's. This can be enough to cause a squeak.

Aligning the car still isn't going to stop the movement, so it won't stop the squeak.

pottery beige · 07-03-2012, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Aligning the car still isn't going to stop the movement, so it won't stop the squeak.

........

39ClevoUte · 07-03-2012, 08:29 AM

I can't think of any other way to explain it. But the rod might.

svo supporter · 07-03-2012, 06:43 PM

So if changing the alignment stops the squeek, why wouldn't everyone suffer from squeeks everytime they brake round a corner? You're still taking up the slack in the bearing doing that.

My suspicions are as follows.

The Subaru front end has 2 nuts and bolts that hold the strut top the stub axle. Seeing the OP had a pulling issue, I suspect the place that did the alignment loosened these bolts off and got a bit of movement from this area, which changed the camber, therefore stopped the pull the car had. (Do a bit of research on that one)

To do this, 9 times out of 10, places remove the wheel. Removing the wheel, allows the brake dust to drop on the deck. Then you combine that they probably used a rattle gun to loosen the bolts, this also causes brake dust to be dislodged. Remove brake dust, get rid of brake squeel. (Do some research over that too)

Seeing as the OP has had the pull fixed and no more squeeling, it makes sence this is what has occurred, rather than focusing on one thing.

39ClevoUte · 07-03-2012, 06:49 PM

Your right, quiet often cars with badly worn or loose bearings (and good alighnment) do make squeaking sounds on cornering.

AU Mont · 07-03-2012, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

To do this, 9 times out of 10, places remove the wheel. Removing the wheel, allows the brake dust to drop on the deck. Then you combine that they probably used a rattle gun to loosen the bolts, this also causes brake dust to be dislodged. Remove brake dust, get rid of brake squeel. (Do some research over that too)

Seeing as the OP has had the pull fixed and no more squeeling, it makes sence this is what has occurred, rather than focusing on one thing.

the front tyres were replaced a week (therefore wheel removed) before the wheel alignment and the brakes still squealed though

so are you talking about dust on the rotors causing the noise?

Torment47 · 07-03-2012, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54Ghia

Your right, quiet often cars with badly worn or loose bearings (and good alighnment) do make squeaking sounds on cornering.

I get squeaking for about 1 minute of driving when i first jump in my vehicle.

svo supporter · 07-03-2012, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54Ghia

Your right, quiet often cars with badly worn or loose bearings (and good alighnment) do make squeaking sounds on cornering.

So the question begs. Does the alignment fix the problem???? That's what is being claimed by you and others.

AU Mont · 07-03-2012, 08:54 PM

all i can say is the rotors came off to be machined, the front wheels cames off for new tyres........... but only when it went for the wheel alignment the horrid squeal from the brakes stopped, completely

read into that how you will?

pottery beige · 07-03-2012, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

So the question begs. Does the alignment fix the problem???? That's what is being claimed by you and others.

bro.. go blow the dust out from between your ears....

39ClevoUte · 07-03-2012, 10:06 PM

Yes and no. It can stop the squeak and the uneven wearing of the pads, but if the bearings are also shot or need nipping up this still needs to be adressed. Oh and also get rid of the dust.

Auslandau · 07-03-2012, 10:24 PM

Think it was answered ........ maybe. Haven't decided yet ...... but there is enough up there to keep the mind ticking for a while! Lets agree to disagree and leave it at that ......