Neg Driving Fine - NSW

photn · 02-08-2007, 04:56 PM

lol this looks bad with all these fines comming out of the works.

Now before any1 gets all worked up and all that.

i was driving normally and not doing anything wrong.

i came around the corner doing less than the speed sign. and my back end got a little twitchy/light

i took my foot off the accelerator and applied the brakes softly. and as soon as i did the back end slid out and i hit the embankment and the car rolled. It was drizzliing for about 10 min b4 hand as well. and yes i took the rain into consideration while driving.

Now no one was injured. ive only got a sore shoulder. but thats its, no one else was involved, luckily.

Now i know i should expect the bogans to go wear the fine blah blah blah.

the matter of the fact is i was issued a Negligent Driving fine. i am a tad bit confused as to why i am beeing fined for something that ultimately comes down to lack of experiece.

The police did not put a reason on the Fine as to why they where issuing it.

Now ive got a perfect record no infringments for speeding or anything of the like.

its 330 and 3 demerit points. what should i do. should i fight the charge as i know i wasnt doing anything wrong or what.

id really like to know the reason as to what the charge is for. But surely they cant issue a fine for no reason?

ALL input welcome!

EA2BA · 02-08-2007, 04:59 PM

you can appeal it and maybe they will let you off.

You had an accident on public roads thats neg driving if you like it or not.

photn · 02-08-2007, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EA2BA

you can appeal it and maybe they will let you off.

You had an accident on public roads thats neg driving if you like it or not.

thanks EA2BA, im all for copping the fine if i have to. im not trying to fight it for the sake of fighitnig it and not paying the money. which money is not an issue.

its just that i dont understand the fine.

02-08-2007, 05:02 PM

If you have an accident and your deemed at fault its automatically neg driving.

I helped a guy who misjudged turning right at an intersection turned into a centre median and popped a CV joint on his Mazda Familia. The car was immovable and 5 mins after the cops happened to drive past, did a breatho and gave him a neg driving charge. This was around 2am on a quiet surburban street, in the space of 10 mins only 4 or so cars came down that street and were able to get past with no fuss.

photn · 02-08-2007, 05:05 PM

if i wrote in and asked for leaniency(sp?) do you think they would allow me to just pay the fine and not get it put on my record. like i said i dont mind paying. its just that i want to keep a clean record if possible.

b2tf · 02-08-2007, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photn

ALL input welcome!

Mate with the spiel at the top of your post do you really think anybody would bother giving you input? Id be happy to give you some advice re the neg driving fine but first up lose the attitude.

xr8ute · 02-08-2007, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackLS

If you have an accident and your deemed at fault its automatically neg driving.

Yep, thats my understanding as well. Everyone I know that has been in at fault in an accident the last few years has been hit with a neg driving charge...

photn · 02-08-2007, 05:16 PM

so no chance of not getting it on my record?

b2tf · 02-08-2007, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xr8ute

Yep, thats my understanding as well. Everyone I know that has been in at fault in an accident the last few years has been hit with a neg driving charge...

Same here, always thought it worked that way.

manny_papa · 02-08-2007, 05:24 PM

The way i see this, the only way you can loose control of your car when your driving "normally" is if you werent driving normally, simple. So if everyone drives normally on that stretch of road, then everyone will flip their cars?

Your lucky your still alive and that instead of a neg driving you got a driving dangeriously fine.

photn · 02-08-2007, 05:29 PM

Fair enough mate. not fussed with you haveing your say..

lol though i do find it funny that you try and help a repeat speeding offender get off a fine.

i seriously do find it funny. lo

irish2 · 02-08-2007, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manny_papa

The way i see this, the only way you can loose control of your car when your driving "normally" is if you werent driving normally, simple. So if everyone drives normally on that stretch of road, then everyone will flip their cars?

Your lucky your still alive and that instead of a neg driving you got a driving dangeriously fine.

You are wrong. Other factors on the road can change the situation dramatically. It is common knowledge that lights drizzle brings oil to the surface thus making the road extremely slippery. I have lost control of my mustang at 20mph on straight road which was oiliy. I managed to correct it but there was no warning and no i wasn't doing a burnout.

T_Terror · 02-08-2007, 05:34 PM

Dont you work for vicroads?

Just "wipe" it from your record after a few weeks

**Mechan1k** · 02-08-2007, 05:35 PM

It comes down to the officer at the time ... single car accidents where the car cannot be driven away at the time ... pretty much a neg driving charge ... sometimes though if it is single car accident and there is not enough damage to totally immobilise your vehicle ... a lot of Police don't really want to bother with it (too much paperwork).

I'd say though nowadays ... if Police NEED to be involved at an accident .. the at fault driver will get neg driving for it.

photn · 02-08-2007, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_Terror

Dont you work for vicroads?

Just "wipe" it from your record after a few weeks

okay.. i work for RTA of NSW. and as much as id love to do that, thats illegal and wrong. personally goes against all my morals and ethics.

plus id get caught as the sytem is monitored 24/7 and you need manager approval to get a code to enter to do a specific task.

photn · 02-08-2007, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

It comes down to the officer at the time ... single car accidents where the car cannot be driven away at the time ... pretty much a neg driving charge ... sometimes though if it is single car accident and there is not enough damage to totally immobilise your vehicle ... a lot of Police don't really want to bother with it (too much paperwork).

I'd say though nowadays ... if Police NEED to be involved at an accident .. the at fault driver will get neg driving for it.

hmm thats interesting as the police officer said that he will have to talk to the Highway Patrol officers to determine what fine i got. i didnt get the fine until 3-days later.

**Mechan1k** · 02-08-2007, 05:41 PM

They don't have to give it to you on the spot ... I received one in the mail 2 weeks after the accident I had in 2000 ... you get that ... was a 2-car accident.

Was a similar accident to you .. although i didn't roll it ... FWD ... on a tight bend at slower speeds on Regent St Sydney (near the LPG taxi servo) ... a notorious corner ... cop told me they always attend accidents on that bend during rain ... it was a given.

I know it was my fault ... boy it was a surprise though how quick the car spun though (even at just under 40km/h) ... once the rear let go it was all over.

My bad ... I had to wear it.

manny_papa · 02-08-2007, 05:42 PM

Mate i didnt mean to open an argument, and with the other post, if you read it correctly he doesnt state if there was a school zone. In sydney we had a problem with the lane cove tunnel, apparently there was construction on the roads, but there was not. The speeding camera caught thousands of cars doing 40k's and over. There was simply no construction nearby, council was at fault, and they waived all the fines. A 15 minute 40k's is a bit odd dont you think?

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish2

You are wrong. Other factors on the road can change the situation dramatically. It is common knowledge that lights drizzle brings oil to the surface thus making the road extremely slippery. I have lost control of my mustang at 20mph on straight road which was oiliy. I managed to correct it but there was no warning and no i wasn't doing a burnout.

The way i see it is the way police would see it
If there was oil as you say on the road in the extreme case, then he should NOT get a fine. Oily roads are dangerious but even in rain, you drive to the conditions dont you? Maybe there was an oily patch there and with the rain it lifted, can happen but how many cars got flipped? Thats all im saying.

manny_papa · 02-08-2007, 05:44 PM

So you work for the rta? and your asking for advice, we should be asking you...

photn · 02-08-2007, 05:45 PM

the car initially didnt flip because of the road. the back end slid out and i overcorrected Twice then hit a dirt ditch and the car as the speed was 90 at the time and i was doing roughly 85-90, got caught on some dirt which made the car role.

here is the link to my thread in the fiesta section.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...5&page=1&pp=25

photn · 02-08-2007, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manny_papa

So you work for the rta? and your asking for advice, we should be asking you...

The rta has nothing to do with Fines. they only record information about licences. which is their only concern.

i even asked around here at work. and no one had a clue. I work for fatal Crash division where i record and do analysis of deaths on the road.

nothing to do with licences..

manny_papa · 02-08-2007, 05:48 PM

saw the pictures the other day, very lucky person.

Conrad · 02-08-2007, 05:49 PM

Just going less than the speed posted doesn't mean its safe to take the corner at or slightly below that speed. You should take corners at an appropriate speed to match the corner and conditions.

The amount of my mates that slide around a corner (intentionally) and then pull the "oh i just gave it a little bit too much and the tail slid out a bit" crap is uncanny, and none of them get away with it. But if you're one of the almost none that is innocent then all u can do is cop the punishment anyway.

**Mechan1k** · 02-08-2007, 05:49 PM

Man you did a good job ... looks like the roads out your way as well ... I know where Narellan Smash is as well. Which road was it on????

photn · 02-08-2007, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

Man you did a good job ... looks like the roads out your way as well ... I know where Narellan Smash is as well. Which road was it on????

Silverdale mate. you can see in the last picture exactly how far from silverdale. about 100 meters.

**Mechan1k** · 02-08-2007, 05:53 PM

I can understand about the dirt flipping you ... narrow rough edges ... with some sections with sharp dips with embankments next to them.

You are lucky to walk away I reckon.

DOC · 02-08-2007, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b2tf

Mate with the spiel at the top of your post do you really think anybody would bother giving you input? Id be happy to give you some advice re the neg driving fine but first up lose the attitude.

Well after holding of from the first post regarding this mishap " with similar wording " which only leads to a one sided view, it's good to read that comment.

So i will reply to that post and this one here, I simply can't see if your driving to the conditions how it happened, I have doubts as to driving to the conditions as it sounds like you were running in to hot for the corner, the back came out and for it to fish tail it tells me you must have over corrected big time ( several times ) ( as i still am puzzled how you fishtail a FWD , but think you mean it was the effect caused by over correcting several times ), but i am not buying the good boy i was doing every thing right story, and it looks like the cops have the same view, believe it or not they are a clever bunch and if it were for real in their eye (you being a good boy) i doubt they would issue that fine or at best would at least be considering it very hard.

This quote where you say you don't mind paying only strengthen's the doubt, and that you were doing a little wrong, If i knew i done nothing wrong i would mind 100% paying

Quote:

if i wrote in and asked for leaniency(sp?) do you think they would allow me to just pay the fine and not get it put on my record. like i said i dont mind paying. its just that i want to keep a clean record if possible.

Lets hope the insurance company don't get hesitant re your claim. And yes just another view, but please dont reply if you think I'm a bogan.

manny_papa · 02-08-2007, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photn

The rta has nothing to do with Fines. they only record information about licences. which is their only concern.

i even asked around here at work. and no one had a clue. I work for fatal Crash division where i record and do analysis of deaths on the road.

nothing to do with licences..

You'd think after reviewing deaths on roads you'd have some idea of how accidents are caused or the factors that cause them.

photn · 02-08-2007, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC

Well after holding of from the first post regarding this mishap " with similar wording " which only leads to a one sided view, it's good to read that comment.

So i will reply to that post and this one here, I simply can't see if your driving to the conditions how it happened, I have doubts as to driving to the conditions as it sounds like you were running in to hot for the corner, the back came out and for it to fish tail it tells me you must have over corrected big time ( several times ) ( as i still am puzzled how you fishtail a FWD , but think you mean it was the effect caused by over correcting several times ), but i am not buying the good boy i was doing every thing right story, and it looks like the cops have the same view, believe it or not they are a clever bunch and if it were for real in their eye (you being a good boy) i doubt they would issue that fine or at best would at least be considering it very hard.

This quote where you say you don't mind paying only strengthen's the doubt, and that you were doing a little wrong, If i knew i done nothing wrong i would mind 100% paying

Lets hope the insurance company don't get hesitant re your claim. And yes just another view, but please dont reply if you think I'm a bogan.

i can understand you point of view DOC. in regards to the Bogan comment i made it was aimed at the people that tend to stereotype that everythread asking for assistance on a legal matter just want to escape the fine. i can assure you this is not the case.

Reason i dont mind paying the fine is that i understand for every action we do on the roads we are responsible for. i am willing to accept that i was responsible for crashing the car.

what really want to know is why do the police Charge people with negligent driving.

i can also assure you that i know the area and im not putting on the good boy act. i was not driving like an idiot and i know i didnt come into the corner too hot because i was accelerating out of the previous corner. which i slowed down to 70 for. the police officer said to me that the cause of the accident may have been the pot holes that where filled in and that he didnt know exactly. im not trying to make excuses.

i know that the reason why i lost control was because i applied the brakes when i shouldnt have. that i have no problem accepting. as i mentioned before i felt the rear get twitchy and applied to the brakes to slow down. now that i know that this was the incorrect thing i could of done i know not to do it next time. i only overcorrected 3 times.

there was a lady there that saw the whole thing. though she did take off after the ambos came.

Im not claiming anything out of the insurance. The car was insured under my fathers name and the company has hence forth written the car off.

blk_frmnt · 02-08-2007, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conrad

Just going less than the speed posted doesn't mean its safe to take the corner at or slightly below that speed. You should take corners at an appropriate speed to match the corner and conditions.

The amount of my mates that slide around a corner (intentionally) and then pull the "oh i just gave it a little bit too much and the tail slid out a bit" crap is uncanny, and none of them get away with it. But if you're one of the almost none that is innocent then all u can do is cop the punishment anyway.

As brilliant as this suggestion is, it's impossible to know for absolute certainty if the speed was the correct speed until you're out of the corner. I know what it's like, I came dangerously close myself to a serious accident when I rounded a corner in drizzle, WELL below the limit, at a speed I considered safe. Tyres were near-new, but the rear just slid out (foot off accelerator). Luckily I corrected it. Lots of things affect accidents, not just the drivers.

Now, where the hell are the pics..?