E.t.s

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by snappy84

There has little to no mention of the released emails or the fact that parts of europe allready have a ets and have said the wish the had not done it.

EU before the 'leak', NZ also passed an ETS the other day, a very close vote, and too soon for the leaked email business to impact.

We see with all this ETS business the transfer of 'technology' to developing countries, the export of manufacturing industry (more lost jobs), greater quality of life impact in financial hits for domestic 'compliance', overseen by 'ETS Investigators'; conjures images of pumped-up Council like rangers who'd walk freely into your abode to check your 'compliance'.

Those who are opposed to ETS are then tagged, ridiculed and lumped with those evil people; 'the climate change deniers'. IF you find yourself so lumped because of belief, you are mean't to feel very small, sidelined, out off depth in the hope you'll shut-up and accept the counterpoint.

Flipside; An ETS would be an efficient tax gathering excersize in the multi-global corporate state; we enter an era not of political left or right so much, but one of "Servitude' under a big umbrella organisation,- with much domestic governing influence and power, and of a nations increasing inability to be independent of it.

We do need Dr Jensen on the LIB front bench, to take the fight to the Greens and ALP on energy et al, this would force great television coverage which atm is restricted, because the key LIB front benchers are not the LIB scientific peer-review minds that can see through the bulldust so readily.

[snappy]

An they keep mentioning china will cut emissions by 40% and the U.S by 20% or whatever there offering . I would bet money that the e.t.s wont get through u.s congress.
China will also think twice because a lot of the businesses is allready packing up and heading to india .
I am all for making the air cleaner if the slapped us with a extra tax i would prefer it going to nuclear power or something . Not send cash overseas to improve other people lives .

[Zoink]

The worm could be starting to turn

Top climate scientist hopes Copenhagen fails
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...04/2761602.htm

The scientist who convinced the world that global warming was a looming danger says the planet will be better off if next week's Copenhagen climate change summit ends in collapse.
James Hansen, considered the most distinguished climate scientist, says any agreement to emerge from the meeting will be so flawed that it would be better to start again from scratch.
His words came on the same day as the University of East Anglia announced an investigation into the thousands of damaging leaked emails emanating from its Climatic Research Unit.
Professor Hansen heads the NASA Goddard Institute earth sciences unit in New York. In 1989 he made several appearances before Congress and did more than any other scientist to educate politicians about the causes of global warming and the urgent need to change behaviour.
Earlier this year, he was awarded the Carl Gustaf Rossby Research Medal by the American Meteorological Society. It was awarded for his outstanding contribution to climate modelling and for clear communication of climate science in the public arena.
He certainly was not mincing his words when he gave his views to the Guardian newspaper online about the prospects for next week's climate change conference.
"The approach that's being talked about is so fundamentally wrong that it's better to reassess the situation," he said.
"I think it's just as well that we not have a substantive treaty."
Professor Hansen argues that the process is so flawed because it relies on cap and trade emissions trading schemes, like the one proposed by the Australian Government.Instead of allowing polluters to buy the right to continue polluting, he prefers a tax on the price of carbon at the mine or the port.
"The whole idea that you have goals that you're supposed to try to meet and that you have outs with offsets means that it's an attempt to continue business as usual," he said.
Professor Hansen's research has been put under a microscope after the leaking last month of emails sent by scientists at Britain's University of East Anglia's Climatic Research Unit.
Climate sceptics have seized on the correspondence, claiming that it shows how flimsy climate science is.
It has now been revealed one of the United States president's advisers, John Holdren, was involved in sending and receiving the emails. Republicans accused him of being a scientific fascist.
The university's vice chancellor, Professor Edward Acton, he is treating it as a matter of enormous importance.
"I think [it's] very important that the university be sure-footed and confident about each step that it takes and I think we must now look forward to the review being undertaken, I hope swiftly," he said.
The head of the university's prestigious research unit stands by his data but he has stood down and an independent investigation into the contents of the emails has now been announced.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by snappy84

An they keep mentioning china will cut emissions by 40% and the U.S by 20% or whatever there offering . I would bet money that the e.t.s wont get through u.s congress.
China will also think twice because a lot of the businesses is allready packing up and heading to india .
I am all for making the air cleaner if the slapped us with a extra tax i would prefer it going to nuclear power or something . Not send cash overseas to improve other people lives .

F'ing oath.

Nuclear Power has to happen. The sooner the Government get over themselves and actually approve Nuclear Power the better for everyone. At least they might get to decommission Hazlewood. That being said, I'd like to see some private investment in that sphere. It isn't possible (yet) in NSW, but General Electric or Westinghouse could design and build a perfectly good Nuclear Power Station, and sell the power back to the Government.

[MAD]

I'd love to see nuclear power the dominant supplier in Australia.

The problem is that everyone immediately thinks of chirnobyl whenever someone mentions nuclear power, but there's been massive advances in nuclear power since then.

There's hopes the Hadron collider will discover ways to dispose of nuclear waste easily and safely. In the mean time there is no more stable land than that found in Australia for storing nuclear waste deep below the surface.

[Trek]

Originally Posted by MAD

I'd love to see nuclear power the dominant supplier in Australia.

The problem is that everyone immediately thinks of chirnobyl whenever someone mentions nuclear power, but there's been massive advances in nuclear power since then.

There's hopes the Hadron collider will discover ways to dispose of nuclear waste easily and safely. In the mean time there is no more stable land than that found in Australia for storing nuclear waste deep below the surface.

If this comes about and the evidence is provided that we can dispose of it without nastier ramifications, then I'd concider it as an option (almost...).

Currently at this point, it's a last resort in my eyes.

And no, I'm not one of those kneejerk "OHNOES NOT NUCLEAR WASTE!!!" people, just another concerned individual

Let's just wait and see though...

[snappy]

Originally Posted by Trek

If this comes about and the evidence is provided that we can dispose of it without nastier ramifications, then I'd concider it as an option (almost...).

Currently at this point, it's a last resort in my eyes.

And no, I'm not one of those kneejerk "OHNOES NOT NUCLEAR WASTE!!!" people, just another concerned individual

Let's just wait and see though...

I pretty sure other countries are paying us to store there waste now , so i cant see why our waste would be a issue . Except we pay instead of get paid

[Falcon Coupe]

In a Country as big as Australia surley we can find a spot to dump sealed radioactive waste, bury it in the desert for a few thousand years.

I'm all for nuclear power as a cheap efficient alternative too.