In bed with HSV...

MAD · 07-05-2005, 11:52 AM

I was just reading an article about the new BMW M6 (373kw, $275000) and noticed something that really surprised me...

Quote:

COMPETITORS

Where do you place the M6: on price or performance? At a projected $275,000, it will be more expensive than a Maserati Gransport by about 40 grand, but has more cylinders, power and probably performance. But then again, it also out-powers the Mercedes-Benz CL55 AMG, yet undercuts it by almost $100,000.

Don't forget the M5, or if you aren't swayed by a European badge and don't mind saving close to $200,000, there's the HSV Coupe GTO. Or maybe a Porsche 911 Carrera S or Jaguar XK-R at closer to $220,000 might be attractive.

What a bloody joke...as if any HSV is a competitor to the M6, how many companies are in bed with HSV???

This is not meant to be a dig at HSV or anything to start a flame war, it just really surprised me that HSV got a mention when there are plenty of other brands that could get one and be more deserving of it.

rest of article here...
http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/porta...opDefault.aspx

mitch_lx · 07-05-2005, 12:01 PM

as if holden stands a chance, what a laugh

Franky · 07-05-2005, 12:41 PM

hahahaha, If you were ever considering an M6 then bought a GTO because it was a more attractive price then you deserve to be laughed at

XRated · 07-05-2005, 12:58 PM

I am going to hunt down the insane person who became in charge of BMW's designs in the last few years.. They've gone from having a perfect coupe, sedan, LWB etc to hideous plasticine formations. It's a real pity, because they're drivetrain really kicks **** and continues to get even better.

I can't wait to afford a 2002 M5

Steffo · 07-05-2005, 07:04 PM

Funny that they say it out-powers the CL55 AMG. Sure, its got more power (373kW @ 7750rpm vs 368kW @ 6100rpm)... but the CL55 gives the M6 a swift but-kicking when it comes to torque (700Nm @ 2650 - 6100rpm vs 520Nm @ 6100rpm).. and well, in straight line speed at least.. the CL55 should come out on top every time. Dunno why they're comparing the CL55 to the M6 anyway, its a way bigger car. M6 is CLK55 AMG territory (size wise at least).

ssj_jaypee · 07-05-2005, 07:40 PM

Motor mag managed to pull 0-100 in 4.99 secs in the new HSV GTO.
The latest BMW M5 does 0-100 in 4.9 secs so whats there not to compare?
The HSV GTO offers many luxuary features of a European car as standard.
I think you guys are just bashing HSV for the fun of it.
I'd rather spend $100,000 on a HSV and save $100,000 instead of an overpriced BMW.

Ghiadude · 07-05-2005, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssj_jaypee

Motor mag managed to pull 0-100 in 4.99 secs in the new HSV GTO.
The latest BMW M5 does 0-100 in 4.9 secs so whats there not to compare?
The HSV GTO offers many luxuary features of a European car as standard.
I think you guys are just bashing HSV for the fun of it.
I'd rather spend $100,000 on a HSV and save $100,000 instead of an overpriced BMW.

FUNNILY ENOUGH i too would rather a top o the line HSV than an over that priced beemer... why not? i have a top gear episode where they really rate the monaro over alot of other european cars like the jag xkr? and even the chrysler 300c. however, for less than the m5 you can have an M3 CSL... now your talkin think about it you can buy to munros for the cost of that thing

Steffo · 07-05-2005, 08:14 PM

Have fun with your top of the line HSV's. When your $100,000 HSV starts using as much oil as petrol, develops piston slap, shudders badly when driven cold, needs a new gearbox (or two) in the first 40,000km, and squeaks and rattles where/when it shouldn't... the person who bought the "overpriced" BMW will be laughing at you, with their flawless piece of automotive art. Oh, and the new M5 does 0-100km/h in 4.7, the old one did 4.9s. It is faster then any HSV.

07-05-2005, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

Have fun with your top of the line HSV's. When your $100,000 HSV starts using as much oil as petrol, develops piston slap, shudders badly when driven cold, needs a new gearbox (or two) in the first 40,000km, and squeaks and rattles where/when it shouldn't... the person who bought the "overpriced" BMW will be laughing at you, with their flawless piece of automotive art. Oh, and the new M5 does 0-100km/h in 4.7, the old one did 4.9s. It is faster then any HSV.

and all this from someone with such a vast amount of experience.... NOT

MITCHAY · 07-05-2005, 09:06 PM

I like BMWs and even been in an M5 and also like Mercedes but i wouldnt pay $100000 more for little performance difference. GTOs are fairly meaty. I mean under 5s is pretty damn good and i doubt they would sell a car that for that much with problems. Spose if you got the money to blow them why not buy the Beamer or Merc. Personally id **** them all off and get a Porsche if i had that kind of money

911 Carrera S

3.8l 6-cyl. boxer engine
261 kW (355 bhp) at 6,600 rpm
Recommended retail price
AUD 221,100.00 incl. GST

Top speed: 293 km/h (182 mph)
0-100 km/h (62 mph) in 4.8 secs

Thats what id personally prefer. Costs less and porsche is reliable

Steffo · 07-05-2005, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devil cv8

and all this from someone with such a vast amount of experience.... NOT

Well actually... of the two BMW's my uncle owned (E36 328 Sport coupe and X5 3.0i), both were flawless, never had a problem etc (the X5 is his current family car). His 2003 VY SS Ute (auto).. 39,630km when he booked it to have its THIRD gearbox put in, under warranty. Excellent gearbox that it isn't, starts to "slip", and eventually, miss gears etc. All this with a stock SS with a cat-back. Hmm. And the thing shudders like crazy if you start it on a cold morning... meanwhile, none of the BMW's ever did.

MITCHAY · 07-05-2005, 10:26 PM

I doubt a 3rd gearbox would be typical but rare and thats hardly a GTO. What about all these XR6T probs with overboosting and other Fords with blown diffs?

BMWs cost more therfore generally more reliable as all the engineering that goes into them. German engineering VS mass produced aussie cars will always win in terms of reliability in my opinion.

Never heard of a BMW lemon but theres still a possibilty of it despite being rare. Lemons will always come in the shape and form as Holden AND Ford.

My mate knew someone who took a new GTS coupe for a test drive and blew the gearbox.
1. It hadnt been run in,
2. He flogged it,
and 3. It was an auto-go figure.

The more you pay, generally the more reliable but it isnt always the case. Luck of the draw. Just want to hope that you dont get caught in it and hope it will be resolved.

Steffo · 07-05-2005, 10:33 PM

Actually, BMW are super expensive here because of ultra high taxes. In Germany, for example, 5-Series costs Falcon money. In the USA, $40,000 will buy you an M3. And make no mistake, they make ALOT more X5's alone, then they do Falcons. So the BMW's are also more mass produced then Falcons and Commodores.

With such a small market to satisfy, you'd think Ford and Holden could build cars with little to no lemons.

MITCHAY · 07-05-2005, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

With such a small market to satisfy, you'd think Ford and Holden could build cars with little to no lemons.

My boss's mate is lucky enough to have an M3, X5 and a porsche GT3 and definately no probs there as you would expect from paying that much money where as a falcon or commodore is just a fraction of the cost. I know weve had both a falcon and commodore and neither were lemons-lucky i guess. About the X5s. You said they were more of them than falcons and commodores-is that just in Australia or worldwide? Because i would be very suprised if it was just Australia. Not having a dig at ya just curious to know.

Steffo · 07-05-2005, 11:27 PM

Worldwide. They sell more a year in the USA alone then they sell Falcons a year.

MITCHAY · 07-05-2005, 11:34 PM

What about if you put it down to ratios such as cars per population. I mean US is like 250 million people to Australias 20 million where falcons are sold. But thats what i thought. So if my maths is correct that means there is 12.5 million (US) to 1 million (Australia). If its not correct lol then lets just say its been a long day and i need matchsticks lol.

**M&Ms** · 07-05-2005, 11:36 PM

Well, a couple of nights ago I was lucky enough to go for a rip in a brand new black HSV GTO LS2 auto. I must say, these things really are a ripper. Putting all bias aside, if i were in the market for a $80K car, I would seriously consider one. They look sensational (the bonnet scoops looked horn on it) and they go pretty hard (even though it doesn't 'feel' like it does). I was actually very surprised at how good the interior looked and felt and I think anyone who takes one of these for a ride will be mighty impressed. Although I do think the manual tranny will be a far better choice then the auto this car had.
Performance wise, with 4 blokes in the car, we managed to record 0-100 in 6.2 secs using a stopwatch on what looked like a flat road (It was also a very cool night, which would obviously help).
However, it was weird to have a windshield which was noticably not as high as a sedan, but I guess you can get used to it.
So, is it better than a BMW M5 or M6?? Hell no. But is an M6 4 times better than a GTO??? Well, it probably is. Point is, these cars are produced and sold relatively cheaply to us compared to imports and we should be grateful for them, but i don't think anyone can really compare them to European cars, cause those cars are really in a league of their own.

MITCHAY · 07-05-2005, 11:39 PM

6.2 for an auto sounds right to me. I think thats the figure claimed by HSV. Its something like 5.? for manual.

b2tf · 07-05-2005, 11:48 PM

Being In Bed with HSV would be like being a with a cheap dominatrix - a hard slapping sound, 2nd rate leather and lots of hot oil everywhere it shouldnt be.

MITCHAY · 07-05-2005, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by back2thefutura

Being In Bed with HSV would be like being a with a cheap dominatrix - a hard slapping sound, 2nd rate leather and lots of hot oil everywhere it shouldnt be.

LMFAO i love my HSVs but thats funny as hell bahhahaha.

**M&Ms** · 08-05-2005, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

6.2 for an auto sounds right to me. I think thats the figure claimed by HSV. Its something like 5.? for manual.

HSV actually claim 5.1 for the auto and 5.2 for the manual.

Did anyone read the section about the GTO in the Motor Aussie 13 car shootout??? They said something about the car going off the boil at around 12,000kms, and this was admitted by a HSV insider. Hell, a Boss engine is only starting to wake up by 12,000kms lol. Still, GTO is a very nice car.

MITCHAY · 08-05-2005, 12:27 AM

My bad. I think all the HSVs have the same figure. I dont see the point in getting an auto in a V8. Takes away the fun. I know my mate drives his auto like a manual saying if it wasnt for that then why do they have 1,2,3 on the shifter. Good luck he can say goodbye to his gearbox sooner or lata. If you wanna drive it like a manual get a manual in my oppion GTO is a really nice car indeed. I remember seeing one for the first time. I mean those bonnet scoops-DAMN. Wheres Fords answer to it? they got answers to everything else except the coupe.

mik · 08-05-2005, 02:32 AM

it would be interesting to see how our local cars held up on the autobahn for a year compared to a beemer

Barry_v · 08-05-2005, 12:29 PM

http://www.bmwlemon.com/

all cars have warranty problems.

I'd rather have the HSV personally.

Steffo · 08-05-2005, 03:23 PM

All these Lemon sites, BMWLemon, MYVWLemon etc, they're all American. Funny thing about America is, their "imports" are actually built there, or around there anyway. BMW builds its X5s, some 5-Series and 3-Series models for the American market IN America. VW builds ALL of its models for the US Market in Mexico and Brazil. They DO NOT get German imports. I've never heard of someone with a German made version of one of these cars complain ever - hell, the cheap $20k VW Polo we have is an example of that. Its a $20k car, inside it feels and looks better then most cars 2 - 3x the price, and its never had a problem.

I don't know why people criticise HSV/Holden ride quality though. Its not bad in my opinion. From what I've experienced in my uncle's ute (which is also lowered, and riding on lower profile tyres) the ride is fine, aside from the fact that the gearbox keeps stuffing up and the typical Holden build-unquality.

MethodX · 08-05-2005, 04:24 PM

its not only the US built BMW and Mercedes that have faults
The German and Euro built ones do to.

especially as They move production to the former East germany and other countries in Eastern Europe to save costs

Steffo · 08-05-2005, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MethodX

its not only the US built BMW and Mercedes that have faults
The German and Euro built ones do to.

especially as They move production to the former East germany and other countries in Eastern Europe to save costs

Funny, no one ever seems to complain about the German built models....

RED_EL_XR8 · 08-05-2005, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

Funny, no one ever seems to complain about the German built models....

That's only cos vee are not ta mention ze war!!

Barry_v · 08-05-2005, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

All these Lemon sites, BMWLemon, MYVWLemon etc, they're all American.

english lemon link provided from the lemon site:

http://www.amarshall.com/bmw/

Quote:

Originally Posted by amarshall.com

Well, I still have the car, now at 32,000 miles. The door seals (all of them) have now been changed eight times. We now have a ritual at the BMW dealers, they have the car every eight weeks or so and change the seals on both front doors. Kindly, they wash the car too.

Since July 1998 when the main text was written, apart from the door seals, the radio/CD headend has been replaced, the check system has been replaced... most of the dash electronics also. The check system is still giving problems.

I have not received one letter, phone call or any communication whatever from BMW on any of my complaints. The only plan now is to stick it out another 18 months until replacement time, and not buy another BMW.

Ghiadude · 08-05-2005, 09:27 PM

steffo, i download a program called TopGear see here: Top Gear Torrents

in this british TV show the Mercedes Benz has one of the worst reps in terms of quality. all cars have lemons and the money youll save over the beemer you can not ony affor to fix them but enhance the car a little too. 100k buys alot these days steffo.