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#1 | ||
Central to all beach's
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alice Springs
Posts: 1,653
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I was curious how people would feel if all the national parks in the NT were to be handed over to a minority group that have a history of locking up "their" land to every one else in this country. This is not a hypothetical proposition. This is about to happen. The territory government is about to hand over all OUR national parks to aboriginal groups because they dont want to pay to look after them anymore. Does this make any body out there angry? These parks belong to ALL Australians, not a minority, that for the most part are the most dis-functional groups in this country. So people, if you are ever planning a trip out to some of the most awesome places in Australia, think twice. With in a few years these parks will be off limits to all but the priveledged few. I have been watching this situation develop over the last 6 or 8 months. I cant believe this is happening here.... I pinch myself but I dont wake up. As I said does anybody else care.
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#2 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,710
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Seems pretty typical of councils all over the place, in a way its similar to your local kids park, and how they pull down the swings cos they are old and dont want to pay for new ones. They would rather we have nothing, than something that costs money....
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#3 | ||
Central to all beach's
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alice Springs
Posts: 1,653
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There are 41 parks to be handed over. Ranging from Port Aususta to ahnem land. Palm valley, the east McDonnells, the west macDonnels, kakadu, ahnem land and in all likely hood, the rivers will become their private domain, If this takes hold here, how long until the coastal state governments start to follow suit. This could lock up your favourite skiing lake or your favorite 4 wheeler destination. This will cause worse divisions between aboriginal people and non aboriginal people all through the country. It will no longer be confined to the out back!!
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#4 | ||
.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bundoora
Posts: 7,199
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So would this mean no visits for tourists?
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#5 | ||
Dirty ute club member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Playing silly buggers in the gravel
Posts: 580
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That is so bloody retarded its not funny.
Now hopefully these blokes will have some smarts about em and keep em open and run tours and things in the parks. Gives them an income and helps keep the young fellas straight and switched on. They start learning and dont just become bums. There are big tourist dollars to be had. I wonder if theyll realise and hopefully still let everyone in. Hope you blokes up there are jumping up and down about this and havin a good chat to the government. |
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#6 | ||
Force Fed Fords
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Victoria
Posts: 5,556
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Sounds like more political correctness, where will it end..........
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#7 | ||
FTF Club Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Driving my Tickford T3 Wagon in Sydney
Posts: 3,132
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I live near some National Parks and I would be ИИИИed off if they were going to be handed back. They are there for everyone to enjoy. They are a NATIONAL parks because they are not everywhere. They should be there for all Australians to enjoy.
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#8 | ||
Mot Adv-NSW
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lake Macquarie, NSW
Posts: 2,153
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A bit on this here:
http://www.nt.gov.au/dcm/parks/parks/index.shtml Note the word 'litigation' and think 'motor claims' among many.
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#9 | ||
XR6 and XR8 Club of QLD
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Gladstone, CQ
Posts: 396
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I'm sure they'll let tourists in.....for a price!!!!!!!
Panda
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#10 | ||
...fairly odd
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: mcdonalds college of hamburger knowledge
Posts: 901
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just hand 'em a coupla long necks and youll be free to do what you want.
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#11 | ||
Central to all beach's
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alice Springs
Posts: 1,653
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The best outcome would be "pay per visit" If Ayres rock is anything to go by it would cost $25 per head for a 2 day visit. On the surface of it, if the money made its way to the idiginous folk and provided jobs that would be a great thing. The examples set so far do not reflect this outcome. If you guys ever visit Ayres rock, and I suggest you do, dont expect to see any indiginous folk hard at work down there. The resorts have to employ back packers for 3 or 4 month stints. They cant get any aboriginal people to do the work, and they have tried VERY hard to do this. They want the visitors to meet as many indiginous folk as possible, and take away a positive attitude to them. But sadly the only indiginous face they usually see in lying in their own vomit in the red sand. The amount of money that Ayres rock has generated for the Aboriginal communities there is destroying them. They call it sit around money, and the bulk of it gets spent at the pub. This will be the most likely outcome for the rest of "OUR"parks. Living in the Alice we have become accustomed to to drunk, awful smelling, Aboriginals harrasing us for $5 or some smokes. We like to get away camping as much as we can. We fear that this crap will follow us now to our favourite camping locations. If any body thinks that I am not telling the truth about the state of Aboriginal people in the Alice, let me know and I will take a wander around town over the next couple of days and take some pictures and post them on a separate web site. This can be a bit dangerous, if they think that you are taking photo's of them specifically they tend to get quite p1ssed of. And they can be very violent people.
Luckily the whole of The Alice are mighty peeved about this.... Just like Johny and his IR changes Clare Martin never uttered a word about this at the last election.... Just proves that when pollies get land slide wins, they become dictators, not govern for the peolpe...... |
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#12 | ||
Streetrides panel & paint
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Perth
Posts: 2,657
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If we keep giving the indiginos people stuff they will never learn to fend for themselves .
I understand that they want their land back but all of the parks is a bit steep . If anything we should lease the land of their tribes or groupes what ever they are called and put that money into areas that will help them in the long run not the short term . We here in oz seem to work on the basis that if we give them fish they will eat now instead of teaching how to fish so they can eat forever . I really am no expert on it and don't have all the details nor do I really care but from little I know and from what other countries do I think there would be a better way than this. |
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#13 | ||
Mot Adv-NSW
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lake Macquarie, NSW
Posts: 2,153
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Outback - DO take some pics, and link here. HALF the NT road deaths involve alcohol affected aboriginal persons in built-up areas, yet they represent only 23% of the NT total population.
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#14 | ||
Central to all beach's
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alice Springs
Posts: 1,653
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KEEPLEFT, I wil take some pictures, but I will not post them on this forum. I do not want to impose such "politicaly sensitive" images on the good people that run the AFF. I have a photo bucket account that I wil post them to. I really dont think that many Australians realise what state these aboriginal folk are in.... Maybe a few un cencored pictures will open a few eyes. Then perhaps all the politically correct do gooders might think twice about handing more and more of this country over to a people that are in such poor state. I will include some of the houses that the tax payers of Australia have built for them..... A picture tells a thousand stories.
Wish me luck, as I said they are not happy about pictures being taken of these places or people. |
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#15 | ||
Temporary Australian
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Central Queensland
Posts: 3,281
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Outbackjack - id just like to say that the resort does NOT "employ backpackers" for 3 - 4 months (most staff members are there from other capital citys! and they staff themselves pay to move out there and back home again), and does infact inject a fair amount of money into a local college there, which employs mainly persons of aboriginal nationality to teach the younger children and educate them.
but you are correct, it is sit around money, but the locals do not get it untill november, when they are given a lump sum of roughly 15 - $20 000! (Each!)its great to see the local Community Mutijulu double in population! |
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#16 | |||||
AFF's 1st DM.......
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Wha???... There is only 2 states 2 be in.. WA or Drunk..
Posts: 6,200
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To publish a photo of a deceased relative to them is an insult to their beliefs barring the dead person to cross over or wander in the afterlife. Man i dont agree with alot of things but if you want someone to blame, blame the governments. anyways mate in regards to Australias indigenous people receiving land, native title has been around for Years... ![]()
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#17 | ||
Bring back Ambrose!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Eau Rouge
Posts: 1,248
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I remember living in Darwin for a while and your right, the state of the natives back then was ridiculous. We visited Alice Springs as well as other more remote outback towns in NT and all you saw was Aboriginals passed out in the river bed with beer bottles/flaggons of goon all around them, harrasing people for smokes/money..
It's sad but it's the truth, by being 'politically correct' all we are doing is sweeping the issue under the rug. Why are we not allowed to talk about the facts and try and help the ones (probably a minority?) who drink and are simply pests in the community. Even last night here in Adelaide a group of us was walking down Nth Tce and there was a group of Aboriginals yelling at people and throwing bottles onto the road. (town is meant to be a dry zone, yet the Police turn a blind eye to the Aboriginals to avoid being labelled 'racists') They have massive problems the Aboriginals, but to me they don't seem to do much to help themselves.. |
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#18 | ||
Central to all beach's
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alice Springs
Posts: 1,653
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SVO, it is only a political thread because if you say anything that might be deemed derogatory about the indiginous folk you are immediatley branded a redneck racist. It is about time that all Australians realised what the state of our indiginous people really is. They are a mess. But this is really not what I started this thread for. I just wanted people to realise that they will almost certainly be excluded from some of this countries treasures. The history of land hand backs supports this therory. My family were planning a trip the Perth this winter via the old gun barrel high way..... Guess what, you have to get a PERMIT to travel on roads that Len Beadel cut through in the 1950's !! We rang, sent fax's, at least a dozen times. No answer! No reply. So much for our cross desert adventure. This is how our national parks will become. Maybe posting photos is moving too far away from the theme of this thread. But all you folk in cities probably are living in blissful denial of the problems our here.........
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#19 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Tassie
Posts: 313
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I lived in the NT for 22 years and a good parts of that was spent living in remote Aboriginal communities.
Outbackjack is spot on with what he has said A good aboriginal is getting very hard to find.. |
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#20 | ||||
AFF's 1st DM.......
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Wha???... There is only 2 states 2 be in.. WA or Drunk..
Posts: 6,200
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#21 | |||
Central to all beach's
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alice Springs
Posts: 1,653
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#22 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: In A House
Posts: 2,467
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well it was there land once upon a time
and now they are getting it back? so whats everyone whinging about again |
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#23 | |||
Official AFF conservative
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Adelaide, SA
Posts: 3,549
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A cup half empty... but full of euphoria. |
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#24 | |||
Central to all beach's
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alice Springs
Posts: 1,653
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Quote:
This country is already locked up enough. Does anyone here think that they can hop in their car and drive/visit any where in this country that they like? Try it. If these laws are passed it will get much worse!! |
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#25 | ||
Official AFF conservative
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Adelaide, SA
Posts: 3,549
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I agree with your philosophy... perhaps your initial post was written with a little more "heat"....
Having read through the material on the NTgov site, it would appear that the settlement they are seeking is reasonable. And more to the point that there'll still be ИИИИloads of the NT accessible to everyone... in fact there's mention of new parks coming on board?? Probably a few years too late to be debating the theories of native title. It just seems a bit harsh to be judging the indigenous population and their land beliefs, based on the behaviour of aboriginals who reside in the towns (and I quote "for the most part are the most dis-functional groups in this country"). Unless you and the people of Alice are volunteering to fund the settlements under ALRA... I'm sure that with the marginal percentages of Australia which have been subject to ALRA claims, you can still find somewhere to camp and somewhere to thrash your 4x4s.
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#26 | ||||
Budget Racer
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,420
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While I support your right to hold and express any view you like, I disagree. http://www.nt.gov.au/dcm/parks/parks/index.shtml This link also disagrees and makes all you claim about entry fees and non-access to National parks absolute rubbish. You disagree with the government, but take your anger out on Aboriginal people. You don't need to post pictures of Aboriginals. Even though I live in the "city", (as most Australians do), we do get out occasionally! The; life expectancy, infant mortality, rate of substance abuse etc compared to the non-Aboriginal population is well known, and has been for decades. It is a national disgrace! Repeated governments have thrown buckets of money at "the problem", with little improvement for those most in need. Blaming the victim (Aboriginals), is easy but does little to solve "the problem". Native title has nothing to do with "political correctness". The "Marbo" case went to the High court of Australia and set a precedent, it's the law, not the invention of some, Latte sipping, know it all group in the city. Your problem is with the law, not Aboriginal people. But never let the facts get in the way of a good discussion!
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#27 | |||
Central to all beach's
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alice Springs
Posts: 1,653
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Quote:
But like I said canning the Indiginous folk does not make any difference to the fact that soon many of this countries jewels will be private property ie Ayres rock. Do you think that if this was not such an international icon that you would have acces to it?? It already has a poor reputation in the tourist industry as un reliable destination. People fly there from all corners of the globe simply to find that the rock is closed for "cultural reasons". It is regulary closed with no notice at all. This could be repeated all over the territory and perhaps Australia as whole. Sure, I am angry at the situation. But I am far more aware of the attitude of the soon to be recipients(SP?) of these parks. Here is an example. How much do you reckon a block of land would cost in ASP? we are surounded by billions acres of land..... Guess what? You cant get a block of land out here. We are land locked by Aboriginal owned land. Its takes years of tippy toeing around their "beliefs" to get a few hectares of land for development. Thats the crux of the issue..... This country is not being shared equally with equality...... I bet if you came and lived out here for a month or two you would have a totally different outlook on the indiginous people. Every freind that has visited us out here came with big city sympathy, and left with a dose of outback reality. Dont take anything that you read on that web site as being true. The truth of the matter is that Clare Matin is giving away "OUR" national parks as electoral pay back. Deals done in back rooms for Indiginous votes. I guess the issue here with black people and land give aways go hand in hand. Many of these parks were established decades ago and have been jointly managed successfully ever since. When indiginous land groups get these parks given to them, do you think you will be welcomed with open arms or do you think that you will have to carry a wad of cash to get a welcome hug??? Peace, and a fair go to everyone. |
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#28 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Tassie
Posts: 313
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OutbackJack you seem to a have a similar outlook on this problem as I do.
The things that you are seeing are the reason I have now left the NT, I grew up in Aboriginal communities as a kid and was educated there also. The places and the generation of aboriginal people that I grew up with are nearly all gone and the current generation I feel are in self generated trouble. |
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#29 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 151
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A few quotes from the starter of the thread
"Living in the Alice we have become accustomed to to drunk, awful smelling, Aboriginals " "I will include some of the houses that the tax payers of Australia have built for them" "Not just a priviledged few based on skin colour" Your concerns are valid, but the way you present them could be seen to be slightly racist or at the very least divisive, were better than them etc? remember alchohol was never part of their culture before 'we' got here Maybe a compromise could be found regarding the parks but attitudes between both indigenous Australians and 'white' Australians need to change, |
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#30 | |||
Central to all beach's
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alice Springs
Posts: 1,653
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Quote:
Hope fully the federal Gov will see through this and stonker Clares pay for votes scheme. |
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