T3 Windsor girdle

Sox · 24-10-2015, 08:30 AM

I'm getting a couple T3 main cap girdles made for myself.
I know Windsor girdles are available, but these are exact copies of the one which is in the T3 engine.

I'm not certain of the final price as yet, but somewhere in the vicinity of $170 was the figure bandied about. Could be less if numbers were high.

Would anyone be interested in one of these, as I can have more made easily.

I'd even set up a group buy if there's enough numbers, and get approval from AFF admin about it. Part of it would be donated to AFF as usual.

**rayban76** · 24-10-2015, 11:16 AM

I'd be interested mate

MrEL · 24-10-2015, 06:40 PM

Ill be interested but after Christmas now is when my next lot of $$$ burning begins.

NCII40 · 24-10-2015, 07:57 PM

I want the T3 Engine complete with auto and ECU

Sox · 01-11-2015, 09:10 AM

An original has been copied and cut.
It fits perfectly, so now we just have to do a small amount of machining, make a pile of spacers and work out a final price.

Sox · 07-11-2015, 06:27 PM

My own 5L has the new girdle hanging from the block now, it lines up very well and looks nice and chunky.

I made up some spacers at home for mine, but will have the others laser cut like the girdle.

An ARP main stud kit will be mandatory, part number 154-5410.
This is the one which is needed as it has 3 shorter studs and smaller nuts to clear the back of the sump and the oil pump.
It's near enough to $100.

I'll try and get a photo up.

**BLU-220** · 07-11-2015, 07:18 PM

I'll take one Rick so put me down for the group buy if it goes ahead

cheers Dean

Sox · 07-11-2015, 07:40 PM

Here's some happy snaps...
.

**BLU-220** · 07-11-2015, 07:51 PM

Looks pretty good

Sox · 07-11-2015, 07:56 PM

Here's the stud kit required.

http://arp-bolts.com/kits/ARPkit-det...p?RecordID=576

NCII40 · 08-11-2015, 10:32 AM

What does it do?
Should i get one for my 5L?

Swathe · 08-11-2015, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCII40

What does it do?
Should i get one for my 5L?

They help distribute the load through the block. If it's stock and you don't rive like a maniac I wouldn't bother. That being said if you have the time and money to get it done, why not? Motor has to come out so if you're going that far get some other stuff done at the same time.

Sox · 08-11-2015, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCII40

What does it do?
Should i get one for my 5L?

On a standard engine they won't be beneficial at all.

On a warmed over 5L they will help with bottom end rigidity and main cap walk.
They will also help on anything revving harder than standard.

On a stroker, they're mandatory IMO.

Just to be clear, a girdle adds no extra power to an engine, it only adds strength and durability, which is required as you raise an engines power.

Sox · 08-11-2015, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swathe

They help distribute the load through the block. If it's stock and you don't rive like a maniac I wouldn't bother. That being said if you have the time and money to get it done, why not? Motor has to come out so if you're going that far get some other stuff done at the same time.

Agreed.
If the engine is out and woop *** upgrades are being done, a girdle should be on the list, particularly at the price.

mcfly94 · 08-11-2015, 12:27 PM

Would you say a 6k reving windsor would suffer main cap walk?
Whats the detrimental affect of main cap walk.
I spoke a little to Dave (BOTTLEDUP) about fitting one to mine, and in my case it was not needed.
Do people fit these to their aftermarket blocks too, such as the dart and ford racing?

Swathe · 08-11-2015, 01:42 PM

If I was having an engine built then I'd put one on, even if it was all stock just because the price of that included in a rebuild isn't much of a jump. With high performance applications and strokers mentioned above, I think fitting one is a no brainer.

Main cap walk is when they rub and "bounce" in their registers in the block due to the load on the crank. It can deform the caps which then obviously kills the bearings and then your crank. A girdle helps spread that load over a bigger area and keeps things more rigid.

Sox · 08-11-2015, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcfly94

Would you say a 6k reving windsor would suffer main cap walk?

Probably not if it's a 5L.
A stroker might, depending on how much comp it has.

Quote:

Whats the detrimental affect of main cap walk.

Bearing life is shortened.
Longer term, the crank can be damaged, and even flog out the block and caps.

We're talking more power than the blocks can handle here, but then we're also talking about a Windsor.

My boss has seen caps completely fall out, taking part of the block with it.

Quote:

I spoke a little to Dave (BOTTLEDUP) about fitting one to mine, and in my case it was not needed.

I don't know the specs of your engine, so can't say if it's needed or not.
But, for less than $200, why wouldn't you do it? It's cheap insurance.

Are you using main studs?

Quote:

Do people fit these to their aftermarket blocks too, such as the dart and ford racing?

Probably not needed in road cars with these blocks as they not made from plastic like a modern Windsor is.
They also have 4 bolt caps.
Although in high HP race conditions, even they'll have a girdle.

If you've had a good look at the main bearing area of a modern Windsor and compared it to almost anything, you'd understand why girdles are used on these.

From AU onwards, the I6 has a girdle from factory, although it is quite thin. The caps are also bolted to the side of the cast alloy sump.
Compare that bottom end to a Windsor and you're left wondering how they make any serious power without falling apart...

Sox · 08-11-2015, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swathe

If I was having an engine built then I'd put one on, even if it was all stock just because the price of that included in a rebuild isn't much of a jump. With high performance applications and strokers mentioned above, I think fitting one is a no brainer.

That's how I see it.
We spend anywhere from 5-10k (or more) on a solid rebuild, another ~$200 is insignificant.

Quote:

Main cap walk is when they rub and "bounce" in their registers in the block due to the load on the crank. It can deform the caps which then obviously kills the bearings and then your crank. A girdle helps spread that load over a bigger area and keeps things more rigid.

mcfly94 · 08-11-2015, 02:08 PM

Cool thanks for that Sox!
The bearing life makes sense, maybe something i should consider.
Engine build is basic everything will be oem spec for 185kw (new rings, bearings, oil pump, pickup, gaskets) and im adding roller rockers, 220 spec heads, arp head studs, nx274hr cam, then forced induction to make over 400rwhp.

Not using main studs, was going to use factory bolts other than head stuff.

Sox · 08-11-2015, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcfly94

Cool thanks for that Sox!
The bearing life makes sense, maybe something i should consider.
Engine build is basic everything will be oem spec for 185kw (new rings, bearings, oil pump, pickup, gaskets) and im adding roller rockers, 220 spec heads, arp head studs, nx274hr cam, then forced induction to make over 400rwhp.

Not using main studs, was going to use factory bolts other than head stuff.

Pretty similar to what I've just done to 5L going in the wagon, except I'm not fitting a blower.

With the blower I'd definitely be fitting a girdle.

Bossxr8 · 08-11-2015, 10:43 PM

They help keep the bottom end together when the block splits. It won't stop it from happening but it will help a little it making it a bit more rigid. But if it's going to split due to an especially weak casting then it will go regardless. Plenty of pics floating around of girdled stock blocks split right down the middle.

Would probably be worthwhile though if you are building an engine out of the car.

BOTTLEDUP · 09-11-2015, 12:23 AM

I personally don't believe girdles are worth the effort UNLESS they are dowelled to the main caps. I would also be line honing the mains tunnel after it is installed.

NCII40 · 09-11-2015, 07:01 AM

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/gawle...hia/1094192577

This engine may need one Girdle
Seller said he will seperate the engine and turbo setup for 3K.
This would be a better setup in my fairlane than a T3 i think
Will have to speak to Heinrich

Sox · 09-11-2015, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOTTLEDUP

I personally don't believe girdles are worth the effort UNLESS they are dowelled to the main caps. I would also be line honing the mains tunnel after it is installed.

There's quite a number of factory engines and aftermarket girdles that would disagree with you about needing to have the girdle doweled.

Line honing should really be done if you're serious about the engine anyhow.
The use of a stud kit can also require it sometimes.

The reality is, girdles do assist with bottom end strength, this can't be disputed.
The question is at what point are they beneficial, though considering the insignificant cost in the big picture, it's a no brainer.

Sox · 09-11-2015, 08:44 AM

Something which hasn't been mentioned yet, is that girdles also work as a windage tray at high revs.

MrEL · 09-11-2015, 10:44 AM

Im definately up for one but as i mentioned earlier it wont be until after silly season has been done and dusted.

Bossxr8 · 09-11-2015, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

Something which hasn't been mentioned yet, is that girdles also work as a windage tray at high revs.

How is that possible when it's all open. Maybe slightly.

Sox · 09-11-2015, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

How is that possible when it's all open. Maybe slightly.

Yes only partial, but something nonetheless.

Sox · 12-11-2015, 10:44 PM

I picked up a small amount of these today, and discussed the spacers.

Good news is the price may be a little lower than I mentioned in the first post too, though I'll confirm that on Saturday.

As soon as I know the final price, I'll have a word to Admin and discuss how to move these.

SpoolMan · 01-12-2015, 12:04 PM

Sox will be making a donation to Make A Wish for every girdle sold..