So much for gun control

[cs123]

Pretty interesting problem for authorities with the advent of 3d printers.

http://www.news.com.au/news/d-printe...-1226437387272

Australian Popular Science reports an amateur gunsmith using the name "HaveBlue" has made a fully operational 0.22 caliber pistol and parts of an AR-15 assault rifle.
He announced in online forums that he had tested the pistol - made from a chunk of plastic feedstock into a commercially-available 3D printer - by successfully firing over 200 rounds. He also has posted video on Google videos of the test firing of an AR-45 variant of an AR-15 assault rifle assembled largely from printed components.
HaveBlue has also posted a template for a major component of an AR-15 assault rifle to a 3D printing website. Despite internal wrangling over the legality of the post, his template for an assault rifle component was still recently linked on a Thingiverse profile page.
3D printers have exploded in popularity over the past year or two as the devices - once solely the domain of large commerical operations - entered the home domestic market.
In 2003, a 3D printer cost $40,000. Now, you can buy a home model for a little more than $1000.
The printers create solid plastic object in any shape you specify, and have previously been used to create plastic prototypes of commercial objects. However, with the advent of the home printer, they are used to print everything from toy soldiers, lego pieces, bathroom hooks, furniture pieces ... even replaceable parts for home electrical appliances.
And you don't need to design the objects yourselves. Large databases are already appearing online

.

[Jim Goose]

Not knowing what sort of plastic it is... I find it hard to imagine a plastic gun firing over 200 rounds without some sort of deformation??
Not to mention how long does the firing pin last?

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Not knowing what sort of plastic it is... I find it hard to imagine a plastic gun firing over 200 rounds without some sort of deformation??
Not to mention how long does the firing pin last?

Doesn't matter too much if you're a villian. Just need something to fire off a clip. Go home and print out a new one.....

[FGII-XR6]

modern plastics aren't always weak or fragile I can see this being the genuine item

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Not knowing what sort of plastic it is... I find it hard to imagine a plastic gun firing over 200 rounds without some sort of deformation??
Not to mention how long does the firing pin last?

[Kryton]

Originally Posted by Article

Now, you can buy a home model for a little more than $1000.

Where.
Serious question - and not for illegal uses either.

[FGII-XR6]

I just looked on ebay and the cheapest one in kit form was $650 from india

Originally Posted by davway

Where.
Serious question - and not for illegal uses either.

[Kryton]

They look pretty crap though.

[Road_Warrior]

*grabs car keys, runs off to OfficeWorks*

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

modern plastics aren't always weak or fragile I can see this being the genuine item

Yes but firing off a round creates a lot of heat... this means plastic will distort eventually.
A firing pin needs to be ubber strong in order to survive the constant hammering. I cant see a 2mm piece of plastic rod being able to remain straight and not break... fire one round yes.
But after that im not too convinced.

As for making other plastic parts, these printers would be great for creating your own plastic panels when customising your cars interior.

[paule11]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Yes but firing off a round creates a lot of heat... this means plastic will distort eventually.
A firing pin needs to be ubber strong in order to survive the constant hammering. I cant see a 2mm piece of plastic rod being able to remain straight and not break... fire one round yes.
But after that im not too convinced.

As for making other plastic parts, these printers would be great for creating your own plastic panels when customising your cars interior.

I wold like to see the video can believe you can make it but cant believe you can fire it.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by paule11

I wold like to see the video can believe you can make it but cant believe you can fire it.

This is his blog.

http://haveblue.org/

Who knows how successful he was. One thing is for certain, you will be able to make precision parts with consumer grade 3d printers soon. You may need a mini mill and lathe to finish the part but it looks ominous

[Pis-ton broke]

Jay Leno uses a three d printer to make unavalible car parts.
So this guy made a gun, I see a part off a gun. but its doable to turn up (at machine shop) a steel barrel and a tool steel firing pin. from an engineering point of veiw its clever IMO.

but on the other hand it might be a can of worms, a full plastic gun needs to fire only once to cause a disater. As plastic gun may not be picked up on a body scanner etc. I don,t know , maybe it will.

[Pis-ton broke]

Originally Posted by cs123

This is his blog.

http://haveblue.org/

Who knows how successful he was. One thing is for certain, you will be able to make precision parts with consumer grade 3d printers soon. You may need a mini mill and lathe to finish the part but it looks ominous

yeah i reckon three d printers are quite exciting as an emerging technlogy . I will get one to , it will be great for making mock ups for molds for aluminiun castings. And a lot of other uses to, and they will just get better and better.

I don,t know about three d printers , but the one used for that gun must be good. it has a smooth finished look and the threaded part looks good to.

[2011G6E]

Seeing how the prices have dropped dramatically (to around a grand now from tens of thousands a couple of years back) it won't be long before they're awfully cheap...remember how expensive even basic black laser printers were when they came out?

Imagine being able to turn out little plastic bits and pieces...say interior parts...for your car?

The gun is an interesting thing...but it was an AR15 and he only made the grip and magazine parts of the rifle...the barrel and action were still steel or high grade alloys. They are what takes all the stress. A Glock pistol is sometimes mistakenly called a "plastic" pistol, but the barrel and action parts are still steel or alloy. The grip frame and other bits are polymer.

Here's a couple that just a quick Ebay search showed up...the rolls of polymer stuff to make whatever you want (even in glow-in-the-dark plastic!) are all there as well. Just search for "3d printer" and see what pops up...
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/3d-printe...ht_2109wt_1270
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Fully-***...ht_2397wt_1270

They'll be a lot cheaper once China starts upping production as they get more popular!

[BlueFG2]

Im thinking of buying one so i can make bits and pieces for my cars, not sure how well they would turn out, but could be well worth the investment

[babyf6]

[xtremerus]

How much is the scanner, though, for the original parts?

[BHDOGS]

the biggest issue i see is copy right how can you sell a product when someone can just copy it and make at there home for free?

[flappist]

Absolute load of crap.

He made a AR15 lower receiver, there have been heaps of this sort of thing made from plastic and alloy before. There were several companies in Brisbane making them prior to 1996, I bought maybe 20 or 30.

The barrell is fitted to the UPPER receiver which also houses the bolt and gas system.

The LOWER holds the trigger, hammer and magazine.
It is no different to our own F88 Austeyr, you need metal for the operating bits.

Google it, they are everywhere and have been for years.

Typical media beat up amplified by gun haters with no idea.

[GhiaEB]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

the biggest issue i see is copy right how can you sell a product when someone can just copy it and make at there home for free?

Maybe that's the way of the future. Look at music, who would have predicited that you could buy all the music you wanted without getting up from the computer 30 years ago?

Where will this tech be in 30years? It might come to a point where there are only designers and developers. You buy an item and "print" it out at home.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

the biggest issue i see is copy right how can you sell a product when someone can just copy it and make at there home for free?

Yes but you still need to download the design for it... unless your an expert at CAD. I can see where you would go online and pay for the design, download it and then print it out.

[Green X]

So what you still need that ammuntion to be-able to use it, and if you have the ability to get hold of black market ammunition then you can get hold of a black maket gun. so what is the point!

[Itsme]

Hope you fellas have the necessary skills associated in using one of these 3D printers, otherwise waste of time for most of you.

I'm with flappist comment.

[Revolver]

I like the title. "So much for gun control".

There is no such thing as "So much for gun control".

As an abiding licensed shooter it's not me you need to worry about. It's the ones who steal them in the first place (even from police stations. Yes you read right) or import illegally them into the county. I the licensed shooter is the one who with no ulterior motive who has his guns controlled.

The ones that do have other thoughts on what they will use firearms for oddly enough are the ones who need to be controlled but in this case "guj control is a moot point. Funny that.

Anyway it's not like this is anything utterly serious. Plans to make homemade firearms are easy to be designed. If you have the nouse, patience & tools, this can be done. Nothing new. Just new technology makes it easier..... (Edit: re flappists post)

PS. I too would like to see howif he has used a plastics barrel, how it's turned out after a few rounds. Especially 200.. And Aldo would like to see the state of the "rifling" of the barrel both before, & after!

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Conundrum

I like the title. "So much for gun control".

There is no such thing as "So much for gun control".

Yeah, righty'o.

The title was a bit tongue in check. Meaning that with the advent of consumer grade devices like 3d printers. Hobbist milling machines and lathes it is now possible to download plans for things and make them without having the specialist knowledge you use to need. 10 years ago having a lathe or milling machine at home was very expensive, let alone a CNC machine. Both of these are readily available now and are cheap and pretty accurate. 3d printing adds a whole new perspective.

Manufacturing a gun lower or upper on a printer is not of much consequence, because you can already manufacture that stuff with CNC mills at home.

You are seeing an emerging technology, if you get caught up trying to pick holes in how successful it is now you are missing the point of what the future holds.

[2011G6E]

I don't think people who don't own firearms realise the astounding mountain of crap legitimate gun owners have to wade through to maintain our licence and keep our guns...

I had to sit through a gun safety course, then apply for a licence, then wait for a background check (It was about three months back in the late nineties when I was forced to get a licence because of the gun laws, not it's up near 5 to 7 months apparently), I had to have the cops prying into my background to make sure I had no priors or AVO's against me.
Then you can apply to buy a gun. Then it's another wait. You also have to prove a "valid reason" to obtain a firearm.
Once you get one, you must keep it stored in a locked steel safe bolted to the floor and wall, with ammunition and removable rifle bolts stored separately in another lock up box.
Then you can be subject to a random "inspection of the storage facilities" by police at any time. I've had it done once...the police turned up unannounced, asked to see my gun safe, and I had to take them inside the house and show them, as well as show them my registration forms and licence. Importantly, I also have informed the missus that if they should happen to turn up one day when I am not home, she is to pretend no knowledge whatsoever of the location of the key to the gun safe. If they asked her to have a look at the safe, she can show them, but if they sneakily try to get her to open it, boom, I'm guilty of "giving access to firearms to an unlicenced person", and I lose my guns and probably my licence as well as a court appearance and heavy fine and criminal record.
If I get convicted of some criminal offence, however minor, I lose my licence and my guns. If I become mentally unstable, my doctor is obligated to inform police and again I lose my guns and licence.
If I want to buy another rifle, I again have to provide a "valid reason to acquire" (even though I already have for the other guns I own), and wait until it's approved.
I can't just go out in the remote bush around our town and have a fun time shooting at tin cans and made up targets...that's illegal.
When I transport my firearms in the car, they have to be locked in the boot, or, if the car doesn't have a boot, it must be in a locked contained chained to the floor by some means, if you want to get really technical with the finer points of the law.


Shame that criminals don't face the same restrictions on their activities...

[karj]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I don't think people who don't own firearms realise the astounding mountain of crap legitimate gun owners have to wade through to maintain our licence and keep our guns...

I had to sit through a gun safety course, then apply for a licence, then wait for a background check (It was about three months back in the late nineties when I was forced to get a licence because of the gun laws, not it's up near 5 to 7 months apparently), I had to have the cops prying into my background to make sure I had no priors or AVO's against me.

Why do you have a problem with police making sure that firearm owners are well versed in safety and conducting background checks when someone is applying for a firearm license? Have you ever experienced or known someone who has suffered from domestic violence? Gets a bit interesting when firearms are involved...

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Then you can apply to buy a gun. Then it's another wait. You also have to prove a "valid reason" to obtain a firearm.

Why do you take issue with explaining what sort of firearm you're getting and what it will be used for?

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Once you get one, you must keep it stored in a locked steel safe bolted to the floor and wall, with ammunition and removable rifle bolts stored separately in another lock up box.

Would you really want criminals breaking into your house and stealing your unsecured firearms?

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Then you can be subject to a random "inspection of the storage facilities" by police at any time. I've had it done once...the police turned up unannounced, asked to see my gun safe, and I had to take them inside the house and show them, as well as show them my registration forms and licence.

How do you expect them to enforce the law?

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Importantly, I also have informed the missus that if they should happen to turn up one day when I am not home, she is to pretend no knowledge whatsoever of the location of the key to the gun safe. If they asked her to have a look at the safe, she can show them, but if they sneakily try to get her to open it, boom, I'm guilty of "giving access to firearms to an unlicenced person", and I lose my guns and probably my licence as well as a court appearance and heavy fine and criminal record.

That would be a bit underhanded. We don't have entrapment laws in Aus.

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

If I get convicted of some criminal offence, however minor, I lose my licence and my guns.

What would you class as a minor criminal offence.

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

If I become mentally unstable, my doctor is obligated to inform police and again I lose my guns and licence.

Do you really have a problem with that? I had a relative who shot himself in the head after separating from his wife and the guy in this latest US Batman massacre is pretty obviously mentally unstable.

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

If I want to buy another rifle, I again have to provide a "valid reason to acquire" (even though I already have for the other guns I own), and wait until it's approved.

Again, why do you take issue with explaining what sort of firearm you're getting and what it will be used for?

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I can't just go out in the remote bush around our town and have a fun time shooting at tin cans and made up targets...that's illegal.

Best practice to do these things in a controlled environment where you can account for all the variables.

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

When I transport my firearms in the car, they have to be locked in the boot, or, if the car doesn't have a boot, it must be in a locked contained chained to the floor by some means, if you want to get really technical with the finer points of the law.

Well I don't imagine you would want the firearms in full view... and if someone were to break into your car or steal it, you wouldn't want them to have easy access to your guns, *especially* if there are any documents that identify your address in the car.

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Shame that criminals don't face the same restrictions on their activities...

They do. The laws apply to all.

I do appreciate the frustration that you feel having to jump through hoops, but for the greater guarantee of public safety... we have to find some acceptable balance between "no restriction" and "ban them completely".

[Stugots]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I don't think people who don't own firearms realise the astounding mountain of crap legitimate gun owners have to wade through to maintain our licence and keep our guns...

Not to mention a registry vulnerable to infiltration exposing our personal and firearm details to anyone.

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

When I transport my firearms in the car, they have to be locked in the boot, or, if the car doesn't have a boot, it must be in a locked contained chained to the floor by some means, if you want to get really technical with the finer points of the law.

Yeah. I don't know what state you're in but here in NSW you have to also remove, relocate and lock up the bolt or firing mechanism in a separate compartment.

Karj, this is a separate issue to sporting shooters, but compounded by our atrocious judiciary, these restrictions have become less about public safety and more about the welfare of criminals and removing the ability for householders to defend themselves and their property.

If the judiciary wants to keep going down the path of being softcocks, the state will have to make some tough decisions regarding LAFO's access to their firearms for self defence.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by karj

Why do you have a problem with police making sure that firearm owners are well versed in safety and conducting background checks when someone is applying for a firearm license? Have you ever experienced or known someone who has suffered from domestic violence? Gets a bit interesting when firearms are involved...


Why do you take issue with explaining what sort of firearm you're getting and what it will be used for?


Would you really want criminals breaking into your house and stealing your unsecured firearms?


How do you expect them to enforce the law?


That would be a bit underhanded. We don't have entrapment laws in Aus.


What would you class as a minor criminal offence.


Do you really have a problem with that? I had a relative who shot himself in the head after separating from his wife and the guy in this latest US Batman massacre is pretty obviously mentally unstable.


Again, why do you take issue with explaining what sort of firearm you're getting and what it will be used for?


Best practice to do these things in a controlled environment where you can account for all the variables.



Well I don't imagine you would want the firearms in full view... and if someone were to break into your car or steal it, you wouldn't want them to have easy access to your guns, *especially* if there are any documents that identify your address in the car.



They do. The laws apply to all.

I do appreciate the frustration that you feel having to jump through hoops, but for the greater guarantee of public safety... we have to find some acceptable balance between "no restriction" and "ban them completely".

karj you have made it plainly obvious that you firstly are a "gun hater" and secondly have no idea whatsoever about the legal use of firearms.

Examples of stupidity:

If you break you gun and just want to replace it with an identical item there is an up to 6 months cooling off period. This is real and in all states and has even interferred with our olympic training.

All someone has to do is make a complaint and regardless of how unfounded it is your access to firearms is removed. This almost cost us a gold medal in the Sydney olympics after a vexacious claim was made against Michael Diamond.

Should you forget to pay you license fee (and they do not send reminders) you must re-apply from scratch including the 12 months wait and the safety courses. This applies to everyone INCLUDING the guys to actually designed and teach the safety courses, I know of two examples.

Australian gun laws are not designed to make society safer they are designed to make it such a pain to own a gun that you just give up.
Of course that is the main reason why the illegal gun trade is doing so well.

Now I am going to make a bold assumption here that you are actually a reasonable person so please answer the questions with you views:

1) Should there be a 6 month delay in purchasing a firearm even though the buyer has other firearms and good history?
Or should it be treated like a car?

2) Should a licensed shooter retain the license and just pay the 5 yearly fee with maybe a small fine if they are late rather than have their property confiscated and have to go through it all again?
Or should it be treated like a drivers license?

Basically should the gun laws make it easy for legitimate users and hard for criminals or should gun laws make it hard for everyone?

[karj]

Originally Posted by flappist

karj you have made it plainly obvious that you firstly are a "gun hater" and secondly have no idea whatsoever about the legal use of firearms.

Examples of stupidity:

If you break you gun and just want to replace it with an identical item there is an up to 6 months cooling off period. This is real and in all states and has even interferred with our olympic training.

All someone has to do is make a complaint and regardless of how unfounded it is your access to firearms is removed. This almost cost us a gold medal in the Sydney olympics after a vexacious claim was made against Michael Diamond.

Should you forget to pay you license fee (and they do not send reminders) you must re-apply from scratch including the 12 months wait and the safety courses. This applies to everyone INCLUDING the guys to actually designed and teach the safety courses, I know of two examples.

Australian gun laws are not designed to make society safer they are designed to make it such a pain to own a gun that you just give up.
Of course that is the main reason why the illegal gun trade is doing so well.

No I'm not a gun hater. I don't like hunting as a sport, but I do actually enjoy the olympic shooting. I'm also nowhere near foolish enough to assume our laws are a model of perfection.

Originally Posted by flappist

Now I am going to make a bold assumption here that you are actually a reasonable person so please answer the questions with you views:

1) Should there be a 6 month delay in purchasing a firearm even though the buyer has other firearms and good history?
Or should it be treated like a car?

Possibly, possibly not. I guess that would depend on what firearms you currently own, and what firearms you want to obtain. If you want to obtain a similarly classed firearm as to what you currently own, I would say no there shouldn't be a 6 month delay. If there was no delay, I would hope that there would be checks in place to ensure that someone doesn't quickly amass an arsenal.

Originally Posted by flappist

2) Should a licensed shooter retain the license and just pay the 5 yearly fee with maybe a small fine if they are late rather than have their property confiscated and have to go through it all again?
Or should it be treated like a drivers license?

If only a bit late, I agree with you. They may not send out letters for renewal because if the mail was illegally intercepted the mailing address would likely be where the guns are stored, and putting that in a letter would be a risk to the public as well as the gun owner.

Originally Posted by flappist

Basically should the gun laws make it easy for legitimate users and hard for criminals or should gun laws make it hard for everyone?

I'm not sure that you could actually create effective gun laws that only impacted criminals and not legitimate users. It's very hard to target legislation in that manner. We have seen it recently with some of the bikie laws that have been passed and then ruled invalid when challenged in court. Also, the world is not just divided into legitimate users and criminals. Poor mental health is another aspect of the debate, and you would find legitimate gun owners with poor mental health. One of my relatives was a farmer with a legitimate use for firearms. His marriage broke down and he suicided with a gun. Maybe he would have committed suicide anyway, maybe not. Who knows, but it is certainly perceived as *easier* or *quicker* to commit suicide with a gun. I've also known two licensed gun owners to be involved in serious domestic violence and in a DV situation, guns are a huge escalation. So it's unfortunately not just as simple as dividing people into legitimate users and criminals.