E10

[graham7773]

Ford tells me that I should not use E10 in my 1993 AX Ford Telstar as it can damage the cars fuel system among other things. How and why does E10 damage the cars fuel system or anything else?

[Kevaclone]

because the ethanol is a corrosive and if the fuel system is not designed for ethanol then you have problems with rusting fuel lines, fuel tank(if it's steel) and the carb/injection system, it can also affect brass and alloy compnents

[Yellow_Festiva]

Back in 93 E10 was not even a distant thought so the fuel systems were not designed to use it.

Kevaclone is spot on. It's corrosive to certain materials found in your fuel delivery system. Which is why you shouldn't use it.

[XARATE]

E10 can also dissolve some rubber fuel lines which leaves a nasty tar like sustance in lines and injectors

[yearby]

Most fords post 1986 can run on E10, it's just that none of the telstars can.
Some of the european fords can only run on E5.
But to say that, E10 will rust out/dissolve rubber fuel lines is a some what pessimistic exaggeration of the truth.
Peter

[Nikked]

Most of the trouble with E10 is that Ethanol is a cleaner, and as such, it has the potential to bring dirt out of the underground tanks into your car.

This is what makes most people think E10 is destroying there car. The Cleaning process also affects your fuel system, ie, crud from your tank clogging up filters, injectors etc...


My car loves it though...Premium fuel (around 93-95 octane) cheaper the regular?

Yes!


Oh, and all fuel contains a percentage of ethanol...as does all those fuel additves you can buy.


Fuel economy is effected buy ethanols o2 content.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Oh, and all fuel contains a percentage of ethanol...as does all those fuel additves you can buy.

Care to prove this gem?

[XARATE]

Originally Posted by yearby

Most fords post 1986 can run on E10, it's just that none of the telstars can.
Some of the european fords can only run on E5.
But to say that, E10 will rust out/dissolve rubber fuel lines is a some what pessimistic exaggeration of the truth.
Peter

No its not an exaggeration at all. Its actually a fact. I know becuse i was the one who had to replace every single fuel line and rail in a customers vx commodore after they used E10 for 12 months straight.
Completely screwed this ladys fuel system. All new lines, injectors, pump, filters, fuel rails and pressure regulator.

Of course it wasnt cause buy one tank but rather extended use which cause a chemical reaction and break down of the rubber fuel lines.
She learnt the hard way

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by irish2

Care to prove this gem?

I was a bit basic...


Ethanol is used as a octane booster in high octane fuels, as some of the chemicals used in High Octane fuels before have been banned due to their toxic nature.

Same with things like Octane booster additives, fuel system cleaners...most contain a form of Ethanol

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by XARATE

No its not an exaggeration at all. Its actually a fact. I know becuse i was the one who had to replace every single fuel line and rail in a customers vx commodore after they used E10 for 12 months straight.
Completely screwed this ladys fuel system. All new lines, injectors, pump, filters, fuel rails and pressure regulator.

Of course it wasnt cause buy one tank but rather extended use which cause a chemical reaction and break down of the rubber fuel lines.
She learnt the hard way

Fuel lines arnt rubber, actually Neoprene...which is not effected buy Petrol and or ethanol...(or any other additive)


The great myth is that it rots rubber...yet, fuel lines arn't rubber.


Fuel system problems are caused due to E10 cleaing out the fuel system, from the rust and crap in everything from storage tanks to the build up of crud in your car.

[xtremerus]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Most of the trouble with E10 is that Ethanol is a cleaner, and as such, it has the potential to bring dirt out of the underground tanks into your car.

This is what makes most people think E10 is destroying there car. The Cleaning process also affects your fuel system, ie, crud from your tank clogging up filters, injectors etc...


My car loves it though...Premium fuel (around 93-95 octane) cheaper the regular?

Yes!


Oh, and all fuel contains a percentage of ethanol...as does all those fuel additves you can buy.


Fuel economy is effected buy ethanols o2 content.

No. It is corrosive, not cleaner.


As Kevaclone said.
"because the ethanol is a corrosive and if the fuel system is not designed for ethanol then you have problems with rusting fuel lines, fuel tank(if it's steel) and the carb/injection system, it can also affect brass and alloy compnents"

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by xtremerus

No. It is corrosive, not cleaner

Wrong again, Ethanol is a neutral, not acidic. It contains no properties to be corrosive...

The problem is that Ethanol is hygroscopic, so it can absorb water and lead to rust in some cars.


But that's not a problem because in the past 20 years cars fuel systems are made out of products that limit this.

Besides, all fuels are mandated to have corrosion inhibitors as there are other corrosive chemicals in petrol.

[graham7773]

I'm officially confused... E10 in my Telstar or not? Did my car miss out on the products that protect against fuel line gremlins? It is 19 years old but still going well. At the moment I am running it on 95 or 98RON at a premium price. Now I hear that there is alcohol, methanol, ethanol, methyl benzine or Jack Daniels in all petrol. In the vernacular of my grandson, (1 of 12 boys) wazzup wid dat?
Years ago, (not too many) if I got water in my fuel, I would get the fuel level down a bit, less than 1/4 of a tank and throw a liter of metho in the tank. Usually, problem solved. Metho, alcohol, hygroscopic, absorbs water? Now the fuel companies are doing it for me but apparently it is damaging my car, yes? No? What?

[Halfmo Rocks]

i'd say simple answer, no. e10 was not an availible fuel when the car was made, so personally i wouldn't chance it
i've had a few b-series falcons...and they say e10 fuel compatible inside the fuel door...so i trusted e10, and never had a drama
i currently have a renault clio...and it says 95/98...so i trust that only

[BlueOvalPrint]

graham7773 - the OFFICIAL answer is no, your Telstar (in fact all Telstars) cannot safely run on E10. You can find this advice at the FCAI (Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries) website at http://www.fcai.com.au/environment/c...-blend-petrol-

This page lists which cars specifically must not use E10 and provides an explanation as to why; an extract is below.

"REASONS WHY ETHANOL BLENDED PETROL IS NOT RECOMMENDED FOR USE IN SOME OLDER VEHICLES

Introduction

The following information outlines the key reasons why vehicle manufacturers do not recommend the use of any ethanol/petrol blended fuels in vehicles made before 1986. This information is also applicable to post-1986 vehicles listed as unsuitable to use ethanol blended petrol.
Ethanol has a number of important chemical and physical properties that need to be considered in a vehicle's design.

Carburettor Equipped Engines

Vehicles made before 1986 vehicles were predominantly equipped with carburettors and steel fuel tanks.
The use of ethanol blended petrol in engines impacts the air/fuel ratio because of the additional oxygen molecules within the ethanol's chemical structure.
Vehicles with carburettor fuel systems may experience hot fuel handling concerns. This is because the vapour pressure of fuel with ethanol will be greater (if the base fuel is not chemically adjusted) and probability of vapour lock or hot restartability problems will be increased.

As a solvent, ethanol attacks both the metallic and rubber based fuels lines, and other fuel system components.
Ethanol also has an affinity to water that can result in corrosion of fuel tanks and fuel lines. Rust resulting from this corrosion can ultimately block the fuel supply rendering the engine inoperable. Water in the fuel system can also result in the engine hesitating and running roughly.

Fuel Injected Engines

In addition to the issues mentioned above for carburettor equipped engines, the use of ethanol blended petrol in fuel injection systems will result in early deterioration of components such as injector seals, delivery pipes, and fuel pump and regulator.
Mechanical fuel injection systems and earlier electronic systems may not be able to fully compensate for the lean-out effect of ethanol blended petrol, resulting in hesitation or flat-spots during acceleration.
Difficulty in starting and engine hesitation after cold start can also result.

Exhaust And Evaporative Emission Levels

Lean-out resulting from the oxygenating effect of ethanol in the fuel may affect exhaust emissions.
Of more concern is that fuel containing ethanol can increase permeation emissions from fuel system components, particularly those that have aged for nearly 20 years. Therefore the increased vapour pressure of fuel with ethanol (if the base fuel is not chemically adjusted at the refining stage) will lead to increased evaporative emissions."

Hope this helps!

[xtremerus]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Wrong again, Ethanol is a neutral, not acidic. It contains no properties to be corrosive...

The problem is that Ethanol is hygroscopic, so it can absorb water and lead to rust in some cars.


But that's not a problem because in the past 20 years cars fuel systems are made out of products that limit this.

Besides, all fuels are mandated to have corrosion inhibitors as there are other corrosive chemicals in petrol.

Water is neutral and not acidic.
Therefor, by your reasoning, water cannot cause rust.
It is oxygen that causes corrosion, which ethanol is proud to say it has plenty of it.

But I agree that later model cars have upgraded metals and seals to cope with the ethanol mix in petrol. I have used ethanol mix in modern cars consistantly for the last 10 years.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by xtremerus

Water is neutral and not acidic.
Therefor, by your reasoning, water cannot cause rust.
It is oxygen that causes corrosion, which ethanol is proud to say it has plenty of it.

Nether water and Oxygen in pure states causes rust...

Its the moisture in oxygen that creates the oxide...

This is why in dry climates (like central America) are known as good areas for rust free cars etc, and why planes are stored in deserts.


This is where the problem with ethanol lies...

Its has a high oxygen content, and is hygroscopic, so that it has the potential to create a good environment for the oxide process. This is why its recommended that ethanol based fuels are not stored for lengths of time...

[yearby]

Regarding XARATE's reply

Quote
[No its not an exaggeration at all. Its actually a fact. I know becuse i was the one who had to replace every single fuel line and rail in a customers vx commodore after they used E10 for 12 months straight.
Completely screwed this ladys fuel system. All new lines, injectors, pump, filters, fuel rails and pressure regulator.]




I never said anything about commodores being E10 compatibly, I said post 1986 Fords.

I also said that telstars could not use E10.

Regards Peter