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#1 | ||||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
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I was going to post this in the Holden thread but it had become a bit large and de-railed so perhaps it is worthy of its own thread.
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257986007EA3EE Quote:
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica ![]() Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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#2 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
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I can see a CD4 sedan, wagon and SUV on the cards.
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#3 | ||
Virtuous Bogan (TM)
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Location: TAS
Posts: 27,559
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OK from my POV even if the commy and falcon where to be selling like they used to the current way in which they are not utilised throughout the world is ust not viable when you look at the cars they compete against. That and the boundaries of competition are now pretty blurred.
GM atleast gave the VE a crack, and for whatever reasons that really hasnt seem to work well for them so I dont know what their excuse is. But every time an update is need, or a major face lift comes along its big dollars and our market just cant supply the turnover on its own IMO. Whatever the solution is I hope the job losses are kept to a minimum. Can someone define CD4? C - focus, D - mondeo, 4 - ? If so whats wrong with the current E size?
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#4 | ||
Flairs - Truckers Delight
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Northside Likes: Opposite Lock
Posts: 5,731
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A well written article. Be careful when googling CD4 however, it has something to do with AIDS.
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Current: Silhouette Black 2007 SY Ford Territory TX RWD 7-seater "Black Banger"
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#5 | |||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Quote:
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica ![]() Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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#6 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Are any mid to large Fords made in the Asia Pacific region? Like Mondeo?
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#7 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,277
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FoA needs to man up and get it here regardless of what they do with next Falcon. |
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#8 | |||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Quote:
Far better to leave the Thai plants for the high volume stuff.
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica ![]() Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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#9 | ||
Virtuous Bogan (TM)
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Isnt the point of going to a global platform for high volume? What is Broadies max capacity?
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#10 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Quote:
By Joe Hinrichs' own words,"up until five months ago, that wasn't the plan..." If FoA did a RWD Fusion, the yanks would have a bloody orgasm, it's just what they want.. Last edited by jpd80; 16-01-2012 at 05:41 PM. |
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#11 | |||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Quote:
The volume isn't where the savings are leveraged on a global platform, the savings come from reductions in R&D costs and tooling expenses, common suppliers for parts and using corporate driveline parts. The savings outlined above can then become exponential when the product is a sold globally instead of relegated to one region or country (like the Falcon is in Australia) - the development costs are amortised much faster and are usually less (per unit) to begin with. This is where volume comes into it. It's a win, squared.
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica ![]() Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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#12 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
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....Unles you are scammers like Toyota... |
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#13 | ||
Virtuous Bogan (TM)
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So we keep manufacturing jobs but lessen the R&D positions?
Im still struggling with the idea of FoA making a car here thats made elsewhere in different forms. Still think full size sedan is the way to go tied in with something else globally. Do Ford have anything to match say Merc E class or BMW 5? Id love to know what the sales (trends) of large sedans are globally. Our market is unique (I usually hate people saying that but in this case its true), not many other places I can think of that have two locally developed cars pretty much for local only consumption in the same segment. So they have both found it hard to compete lately and all of the sudden large sedans are dead? Dont know about that.
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Last edited by Polyal; 16-01-2012 at 06:29 PM. |
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#14 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,798
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Quote:
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Daniel |
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#15 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
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next Falcon to be a close cousins as either: 1) a FWD/AWD V6 development on the Mondeo/Fusion or and preferably, 2) a brand new RWD platform sharing with Mustang. |
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#16 | ||
Virtuous Bogan (TM)
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I must say I will be happy with whatever they get if it keeps the ball rolling.
But the I dont get the logic with the modeo/fusion, I mean we have a crack at Holden for not making money off the cruze, what would Ford do any different? Would FoA really take a lead on a car that is primarily for EU and US. If you share with say a Linclon platform, or the mustang as you say would you then get away with not having the pressure of high volume/small profit? Maybe..dont know...I couldnt imagine us ever export in big numbers, not compared to the other Ford factories in Asia. Could we get knock down kits for chassis and drivetrain from a GRWD and just finish off the interior and styling here?
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#17 | ||
Oo\===/oO
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tamworth
Posts: 11,348
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Its all a bit dramatic, the first time the commodore gets knocked of its perch and its the end of large aussie cars?
yeesh!
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#18 | |||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Quote:
A compelling argument can be made each way - that is, for CD4 or next gen Falcon/RWD large car. But whichever one is chosen, it has to be nutted out properly without any of the usual half-arsed Ford Australia shenanigans like Territory ball joints and be able to plug into the global supply of tech, otherwise it will fail in the face of imported competitors that have all that stuff. I think you will find that global sales of volume selling large cars have declined. Joe Hinrichs alluded last week to the fact that the Taurus in North America has been suffering from the same malaise as the Falcon, and that car is far more techy than the Falcon and has a range of fuel efficient engines available. even the Mustang at its current sales levels is unsustainable in the long term and the brass at HQ know it. Our market aint unique anymore; we are now more aligned with global markets than ever because of the sheer level of choice from imports, it is bringing the realities of a global economy and global consumerism home to your garage. The Falcon and others like it are niche products, and the only way it can survive is with economies of scale and volume, this invariably means piggy-backing onto another platform/project (likely) or having a global RWD platform (unlikely IMO). Ways of getting the economies of scale is tapping into the global corporate parts supply chain, using corporate powertrain components, and sharing the expensive modules (front and rear suspension, HVAC) with another vehicle. Its worth noting that this is already underway with the FGII and SZ Territory - corporate engines have been or are being introduced (2.7TCDi, Ecoboost), a corporate 6 speed is now in the Territory and coming to the Falcon, both the Terri and the Falcon now use wiring harnesses and ECUs from Ford's global parts supply and there are a bunch of other unglamorous parts that we never really see that are now being sourced from the corporate supply chain. Don't forget, Mondeo/Fusion are larger cars, with a higher price point, competing in a segment that is nowhere near as competitive as the C-car segment Cruze, Focus, Mazda 3 et al are in. You're looking at 20 competitors in the C segment, with, what, 5-6 in the C/D (Mondeo) segment? Not to mention the fact that Ford could leverage the variants off the platform by introducing an SUV which spreads out your costs. So its a different scenario to Holden with the Cruze.
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica ![]() Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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#19 | |||
Virtuous Bogan (TM)
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I should have clarified, the Oz market is very much like any other globalised country, what I meant was the segment that Falcon and Holden have traditionally had is eroded by these larger global competitors that are technically in different segments. That and the fact they dont get the money for tech like others hurts them, especially when gimmicks really do help sales. While this decision should not rest on this point alone, the FWD/AWD thing would make life very difficult for any V8 to be installed. AWD also adds weight for a segment that really doesnt benefit from AWD anyway. FoA are much better than any other part of the global Ford world at making RWD cars, I dont know why you would throw that away to make yet another Fusion/Mondeo. I would be playing to their strengths. I guess we can see just from our outsider opinions that its no wonder the decision is taking a while to nut out...lots of options.
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#20 | |||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
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make 4,000 Mondeo a month but if they could squeeze 1200=1800/mth that would be excellent. Quote:
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it's a tricky balancing act, getting the vehicle mix right is important and next CD4 SUV may well be a replacement for Territory as far as a soft roader, while Everest Vs Prado So an alternative CD4 plan might be: - Mondeo I-4 EB and TDCI - V6 AWD version by FoA = new Falcon - CS4 SUV to replace Ford Edge in USA and global markets If they chose another large RWD car, it will have to share wit Mustang and other vehicles EUCD/CD4 electricals and switch gear, doors and frames will again be EUCD or CD4, IRS design might even be shared with AWD Fusion.. Territory II at a squeeze? |
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#21 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 287
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http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25797F007F4439
The above article acknowledges Ford's need to have a large car. There should definately be a large car Falcon, it makes no sense to downsize and basically rebadge the Mondeo. In terms of the SUV market, will Territory have a future? Regardless of how much overlap there is between the C/D/E segments, there should be a market for an SUV that is above the Edge size, which is the equivilent of the Mondeo class for SUVs (e.g. Mazda CX-7). Ford US addresses this with the Explorer, so I think that market will also require a vehicle like the Territory. |
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#22 | |||
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,694
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#23 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
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If mondeo was built locally, it would compete with Camry for Govco orders, would that be so bad? At the present moment,Mondeos are still restricted supply and due to our unique ADR wiring, so our production order goes to the end of the queue with up to orders four months wait Ordering is a pain and depending on stock, buyers may or may not have to wait.... To say it's hurting sales is an understatement... Last edited by jpd80; 16-01-2012 at 10:15 PM. |
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#24 | |||
Virtuous Bogan (TM)
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#25 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
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#26 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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#27 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,277
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Quote:
Our ARDs require changes to the ECE wiring and since this is different we go to the end of the list in European plants, New Zealand gladly accepts ECE wiring and is far less constrained with deliveries. See, if FoA had local manufacturing of Mondeo, they could better meet the needs of interested buyers, imagine ordering ahead four months and getting the product mix wrong, dealers would have kittens but that's exactly what happened with LV Focus launch.... Ford ordered mostly LX and everyone wanted Zetec and Ghia, guess what - four months wait with a paddock full of LXs for dealers to try and sell to buyers wanting high series, not happy Jan. That shows how Ford was stuck in a base model mentality and why they threw the Focus plan away..... Back on topic, I believe FoA should do another large car+ Mondeo+ companion SUV and all built here, if they choose efficient up to date vehicles that can ask good prices then the plan should work. Last edited by jpd80; 17-01-2012 at 08:37 AM. |
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#28 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,312
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it's partly a shift to smaller cars for smaller families, but also as USA studies have shown, it's also because of high price of petrol. in the last spike, large vehicle sales dropped dramatically, but since prices have dropped, big car (suv, pickups, etc) sales are up
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#29 | ||
N/A all the way
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,459
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A totally new floorpan building only 1200 - 1800 a month and you will send Ford Aus the way of Mitsubishi Aus within a year.
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#30 | ||
Noobie
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 525
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I'm no expert, but I can see the RWD large/sports sedan becoming a niche market. It's pretty obvious that mainstream market has moved on from buying large sedans and now buy more upspec small/medium cars. I don't think it will be long before Focus and Mondeo sell in higher volume than Falcon.
If Falcon can share underpinnings with the next Mustang, then that's a good thing and would allow the Falcon sedan and Mustang coupe to be sold alongside each other both here and in America. There'll always be demand for a RWD performance vehicles. I don't know what that means for Territory. If the medium/large SUV model becomes the Explorer then that will annoy those who buy Territory as a tow vehicle. However, I think the T6 Everest will fill that niche and offer up some competition to Prado/Challenger/Pathfiner etc. If I won lotto and could buy a couple of upcoming Ford vehicles to suit our needs, it would be a T6 Everest kitted out at ARB for offroading and camping etc. plus an economical Mondeo or Focus diesel for my wife to run about town. EDIT: If I had to choose just one vehicle, it would be the Everest for my wife to commute in and I'd be catching the bus (pretty much what our situation is now).
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