Toughest gearbox for the au??

**Stav** · 09-01-2009, 06:14 PM

Guys ..I am convinced that the auto boxes are not built well enough to suit a performance daily driver .I am currently getting my 5th auto gearbox installed as we speak. I am not holding my breath for it. It will blow up as well despite my determination to get it serviced and baby the car for it to last. I know it will 100% blow up..

This leads me to my next question...whats the best manual box and is it tougher than the btr gaylord ford automatic boxes?

Should I start catching a train to work to have reliability with my ford? Built ford tough..my ***!!

Sox · 09-01-2009, 06:33 PM

Realistically a T5 will do, they lasted a while behind the first BA XR6 turbos and they have buckets more torque than you NA engine will ever have.
Throw in a Tremec 5 or 6 speed if you want it to last forever.

You'll have a shirt load more fun.

MADED-6 · 09-01-2009, 07:06 PM

a t5z would be maybe a bit better as they are a bit stronger but i think that would do for ur situation depending on what u have planned.
cheers josh.

**Stav** · 09-01-2009, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

Realistically a T5 will do, they lasted a while behind the first BA XR6 turbos and they have buckets more torque than you NA engine will ever have.
Throw in a Tremec 5 or 6 speed if you want it to last forever.

You'll have a shirt load more fun.

Which is better? What sort of dollars are they? Will I need a different ecu? I am just brainstorming even though by now I am pretty over it..

**Stav** · 09-01-2009, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

Throw in a Tremec 5 or 6 speed if you want it to last forever.

.

Last forever??How long is that for me do you think? I am the master breaker it would seem.

XR6TCraig · 09-01-2009, 07:58 PM

Wack in a T56 mate.

Almost bulletproof!

DoreSlamR · 09-01-2009, 08:03 PM

Yep T56 would be the go.

I've heard good things about Mal Wood, the man knows his transmissions!

http://www.malwoodauto.com.au/

blackers10 · 09-01-2009, 08:08 PM

a T5G will last longer than a T5Z they rearange the bearing setup and machine a few bits etc etc.. Hart Transmissions a Burpengary built BI6TIM's box for his 400hp turbo ED... hasnt had a SINGLE problem with it
cost $1800 + supply the box (they give the box an overhaul while they are there)
as used in a number of saloon cars and a few other pretty powerful cars have gone thru the shop apparently

T56 but then you must sort out speedo drive as it uses magnets on the tailshaft apparently

or get your BTR built properly.. mine was behind a 450+hp turbo AU XR6 that was taken to powercruise and used and abused ..and it now is in my Fairlane.. shifts pretty hard but is perfectly fine with the 2800 high stall as well

other option is a C4 or somthing like Tuff ED is running down in melb or the other turbo E series falcons that are running 10s or better...

**Stav** · 09-01-2009, 08:10 PM

The c4 will rev its guts out with my 4:11's. Seeing these prices I wish I had more time to get a conversion in. I need the dam thing on the road. It is my money making car...well money losing at the moment.

honer · 09-01-2009, 08:26 PM

Whats wrong with the BTR ? You must absolutely thrash the backside out of these things ?

Know an AU in Perth with a Kenne Bell and around 500hp at the boots with a built BTR and has no problems...

**Falcon Coupe** · 09-01-2009, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stav

Last forever??How long is that for me do you think? I am the master breaker it would seem.

Nugget has a Tremac TKO 5 speed with 700hp going through it.
It should be up to the task.

Were the previous boxes built for power or just stocker reco's , do you have a big enough trans cooler, is the fluid changed often ?. All these issues must be looked at for any box to last.

5LGhiaWgn · 09-01-2009, 08:29 PM

Go For a T56, My conversion ended up costing me $1900 by the time I Sold my T5 to make up some of the cost

Mr Hardware · 09-01-2009, 09:03 PM

Taxi boxes get fairly well pushed and they often do in excess of 400,000k's.
The boxes are tough.
You look after it, it will look after you. You abuse it, it will abuse you. Burnouts, poor servicing, drag racing and general hard driving will severly shorten the life of any transmission.
I'm all for people having their performance car as their daily driver, but as a trade vehicle too? A bit dangerous imo.
Just cut your losses, huge as they are, and buy a secondhand LS1 wagon and keep it stock.

**Stav** · 09-01-2009, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Nugget has a Tremac TKO 5 speed with 700hp going through it.
It should be up to the task.

Were the previous boxes built for power or just stocker reco's , do you have a big enough trans cooler, is the fluid changed often ?. All these issues must be looked at for any box to last.

Huge transcooler.About 50 cm by 30cms. Trans temp gauge never showed overheating ever. Last box was recoed with kevlar bands and thicker clutches.

Before that a second hand box.Before that a recoed box from the dealer.The first box was faulty in the totoally stock car and replaced under warranty. I spent 1500 on the box 12 months and 10 days ago. It had 6 runs at most at wsid. I do not do burnouts as I want my diff to stay good. I do probably enjoy a nice take off occasionally but the box showed absolutely no sign or hint of failure until it went to melbourne. The replacement of the tranny fluid made it go fantastic. Itwas like a new car. The trip home was just as enjoyable.Not a hint of problems. Today it started to slip again.When I tried to accelerate away it lost all drive and just died.

I am over these transmissions. I dont want to lay blame to anyone but my second hand box saw more burnouts and much mre action at wsid and it last way longer than the recoed box... I am starting to regret getting another box ..but I need the car drivable. I didnt know what was wrong and I trusted these guys.They said its stuffed...ok.Its stuffed.

**Stav** · 09-01-2009, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Taxi boxes get fairly well pushed and they often do in excess of 400,000k's.
The boxes are tough.
You look after it, it will look after you. You abuse it, it will abuse you. Burnouts, poor servicing, drag racing and general hard driving will severly shorten the life of any transmission.
I'm all for people having their performance car as their daily driver, but as a trade vehicle too? A bit dangerous imo.
Just cut your losses, huge as they are, and buy a secondhand LS1 wagon and keep it stock.

The boxes are crap..the temperature was always well cooled at all times. I have 5 times the experience of most people by now.

5.0 ED · 09-01-2009, 10:02 PM

The BTR auto's are infact very good and very strong, i had one behind my turbo EA with 271rwkw's for 2years running full line pressure shifts (electronic) and yet never had a problem, I've seen many of these boxes last with a lot more power than your pushing thru them.

But what i will say is there is also such a thing as too cold, the auto needs to run at engine temp, other wise pressure increases and things get brittle when cold due to harder shifting etc.

Also a lot of people "Improving" these boxes are in fact making them weaker, the BTR run's very high line pressure's stock, the smooth shifts are change electronically, there is more than ample pressure to shift a 700hp engine stock if electronically changed, change it hydrolically and your just making it do stuff it wasn't ment to, drums break and so on, due to excess line pressure.

But yet still what exactly has your box done? Lost all forward gears? Then it sounds like the teflon check ball may have dropped and blocked the oil feed, happens due to none servicing, and yet should have been replaced when reco'd.

With any auto, the trans fluid should go thru the cooler in the radiator after the added cooler on the front, to give a nice consistant operating temp, failing to do so just cause premature failure if they get too cold.

**Stav** · 09-01-2009, 10:31 PM

The oil is going through the radiator tank and then the cooler. Iwas told that the lower a gearboxes temp the more it would last. I was told that the hotter they were the less they lasted. In any case it didnt.

My box started slipping in drive.Then lost all drive and reverse. I would turn the car off and it would then re engage the gear and drive alittle further before leting go again. It stoped and wouldnt go again. It got towed. they checked reverse and it had no reverse. Drive came back once it cooled. They said it was stuffed and I can only put my faith in them and hope for the best.

Windsor220 · 09-01-2009, 11:02 PM

They cant be that bad there's some modded XR6Ts running the BTR box.

DoreSlamR · 09-01-2009, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torxteer

They cant be that bad there's some modded XR6Ts running the BTR box.

Simon from Xtreme Ford Tuning also ran a modded BTR behind his Typhoon and that was heavily modified

:

Mr Hardware · 09-01-2009, 11:21 PM

5.0whiteaughia, one gold star. absolutely correct, there is such thing as too cold and the auto does need to run at engine temp. the taxis generally don't run oil coolers, and they last for up to (and sometimes beyond in very good scenarios) 500,000klms.

That's why a lot of the babied, never heated BA transmissions were dying at 140,000klms, cos they were never serviced and always running cold, never properly lubricated. Whenever I have my transmission serviced, I always ask what condition the extracted oil was, and they always say 'clean, like it should be'.

Guess what? Everyone here but you reckons they're good boxes that last a good amount of time even with turbo power. You're the only one who seems to have problems. 5 to me is not rotten luck, there's some kind of mis-management going on, like the theory of keeping the box cold. Hokey.

**Stav** · 09-01-2009, 11:29 PM

What is operating temp? Mine goes down to 40 degrees on the feeway as the wind cools the tranny cooler. In daily driving it reaches 50 to 70 degrees celcius.Is this ok in your opinion.I dont want a 6th box.

**Stav** · 10-01-2009, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

5.0whiteaughia, one gold star. absolutely correct, there is such thing as too cold and the auto does need to run at engine temp. the taxis generally don't run oil coolers, and they last for up to (and sometimes beyond in very good scenarios) 500,000klms.

That's why a lot of the babied, never heated BA transmissions were dying at 140,000klms, cos they were never serviced and always running cold, never properly lubricated. Whenever I have my transmission serviced, I always ask what condition the extracted oil was, and they always say 'clean, like it should be'.

Guess what? Everyone here but you reckons they're good boxes that last a good amount of time even with turbo power. You're the only one who seems to have problems. 5 to me is not rotten luck, there's some kind of mis-management going on, like the theory of keeping the box cold. Hokey.

My bro with his ba xr6 had the gearbox blow at 30,000 kays.Stock car,service and driven by my granny driver brother. Bleh..say what you want its no consolation to me mate. I will call it as I see it. Mismanagement...first box on stocker was replaced under warranty at first service.Stock everything..serviced like a porn star. Second was the recoed box..my fault absolutely unequivocally.The shift kit I used to use blew the rear main seal and then the rest of the box. Fine definately me...so in went a second handy...12 months later bung..3.73 diff and 2500 stallie btw. Then I got the you beaut kevlar this and blah blah that. Yes this is the box that took me all that way to melbourne and back ..then died in suburbia!! I amnot the only one talking down these boxes. If they werent breaking then I would not be complaining. would still be driving the car and enjoying it as it has not missed a beat in 12 months. My eb wagon also had the btr and it also died in its travels.
Perhaps this last box needed more servicing or it was a shonk? Maybe it is just bad luck ? Aw well got the family home so Iam happy.

ebxr82nv · 10-01-2009, 12:24 AM

Change the route of the fluid through the coolers then, first the stand alone cooler then the radiator cooler. That will provide a more constant running temp. The box should run around 90 degrees all the time.

But I'm an amature so don't quote me exactly

EvilChief · 10-01-2009, 01:05 AM

any of the tremecs will be fine behind the NA6, i picked up my BA XR8 persuit tremec for 900 bucks

private9 · 10-01-2009, 02:23 AM

Stav, you've definitely had a bad run there and I do feel for you but there are plenty of people out there with big kay btr's, stock btr's running decent power, non-serviced ones etc etc without a problem.

Yes, they are known to die but name me one auto that won't at some stage.

Reading each instance on its own, I actually can't see the big deal.

You have a high km, mildly modified, thrashed and raced AU and from what you've said in other threads, it sounds like the trans wasn't serviced either. Running a stally definitely doesn't help longevity, particularly if you do a fair bit of stop start driving - and being your work vehicle in Sydney, I'd imagine it'd do a fair bit of that!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stav

Mismanagement...first box on stocker was replaced under warranty at first service.Stock everything..serviced like a porn star.

Original gearbox - they do die eventually. Can't see an issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stav

Second was the recoed box..my fault absolutely unequivocally.The shift kit I used to use blew the rear main seal and then the rest of the box. Fine definately me...

As you said, you caused the death. Again no issue!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stav

so in went a second handy...12 months later bung..3.73 diff and 2500 stallie btw.

Secondhand gearbox of I assume unknown origin and condition - some wreckers make some exorbitant claims on so called low km engines and trans. Again, a stock unknown box blew behind a raced and possibly thrashed heavy car with a stally. Still can't see an issue!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stav

Then I got the you beaut kevlar this and blah blah that. Yes this is the box that took me all that way to melbourne and back ..then died in suburbia!! I amnot the only one talking down these boxes. If they werent breaking then I would not be complaining. would still be driving the car and enjoying it as it has not missed a beat in 12 months.

I agree with you, you'd expect this gearbox to take some punishment, but there does appear to be some unknowns in your story. You mentioned in another thread the oil was filthy when drained. Wow, an unserviced transmission, running a stally, in a very heavy car that'd be carting around work tools all day in heavy traffic, that I assume would cop a beating dies. I still can't see an issue!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stav

My eb wagon also had the btr and it also died in its travels.

Wow, an EB dropped a box. Still can't see an issue.

I'm sorry to sound harsh Stav and I really don't mean to be but sometimes you need to see the reality of the situation. In all instances above, you, your driving, your mods, or the nature of your car (ie hell heavy!) have had some impact on the death of gearboxes.

Yes you do get your odd cases of 30k old trannys die as you mentioned, but that sorta crap happens with anything. Just pure bad luck unfortunately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

Realistically a T5 will do,

Please don't as then we'll see threads crying about clutch cables snapping, firewalls and pedal boxes cracking, and clutches wearing out! Oh wait, maybe Ford really can't get their tranny's right

5.0 ED · 10-01-2009, 03:17 AM

Stav - as i said correct operating temp is at or near engine coolant temp for best life, this is why you run it thru tranny cooler than radiator so that it has the stable temp, colder isn't necessarilly better, just like with your engine.

With all auto's there is bad luck cases, machining tolerance's along with how they are treated has a lot to do with it. With a brand spanking new auto, if you hop in it on a cold day and go straight from moving reverse to forward at low speed you can break the band, if it was hot it'll survive. (example).

There is only 1 real major weak spot in these auto's that i have come across and that is the sprag (its physically about 1/2 the size of C4 one), it is used in conjunction with a clutch that locks up as well, in drive they don't lock up this clutch, in 1st they do, in a T series with button's on steering wheel the auto is factory modded to lock up the clutch to make it stronger while in D.

Another problem is shift kits, if u get a piece of 5mm thick alloy and drop 100kg on it from 10 metre's, each time u do it, it will eventually get weaker until it breakers, take that 100kg and place it down on it and it'll never break. Shift kits should really have a linear pressure from 0-full pressure, how hard it shifts is just how quickly you go from 0-full. Not to just all of a sudden slam it in, and this is where standard electronic boxes need clever electronic tuning rather than just a whole drill in an orifice or a spring replaced to increase pressure. And in BTR's punching the back of drum's is an issue, along with every other auto out there.

As for trans specialist, some are good, some are bad, i had a 91le out of an EF that had a slight front oil leak, I sent the box up thru a local mech, to get a front seal replaced at the trans shop he went too, i later get a phone call saying the box was blown to piece's there was no way that was drivable, i cracked it, requested my box back as it was, got a 85le box in complete bits back. I grabbed a 2nd hand auto from a wreckers and put it in with my original touque converter, and yet still had the leaky trans problem, turned out it was the touque converter all along. So now I just rebuild my own boxes, hey im no trans specialist, but the 2 BTR auto's ive built are still going so i must have done something right, its the same old story, if u want something done correctly, then sometimes you just have to do it yourself.

Sox · 10-01-2009, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by private9

Please don't as then we'll see threads crying about clutch cables snapping, firewalls and pedal boxes cracking, and clutches wearing out! Oh wait, maybe Ford really can't get their tranny's right

I had thought of this, and yes it is very likely.

I personally a think a manual would be a good change for Stav though, for many other reasons.

T3man · 10-01-2009, 03:27 PM

It ain't the auto's fault! Who did you buy it from? They have to take some responsibility if it hasn't lasted. Plenty of these boxes have outlasted motors that I know of. You need to change your supplier or servicer - not the box. You can get a bad manual box too ya know?!!

**Stav** · 11-01-2009, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3man

It ain't the auto's fault! Who did you buy it from? They have to take some responsibility if it hasn't lasted. Plenty of these boxes have outlasted motors that I know of. You need to change your supplier or servicer - not the box. You can get a bad manual box too ya know?!!

I agree. I am also thinking what 5.0 ghia said. My problems did start with the stall convertor and cooler. As per my temperature gauge on my box it is pretty cool.On the freeway to melbourne my box temp was close to air temperature. Perhaps he is right.Maybe it is the cooler cooling it too much.This goes against conventional advice that cooler transmssions last longer.

Sox · 11-01-2009, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stav

I agree. I am also thinking what 5.0 ghia said. My problems did start with the stall convertor and cooler. As per my temperature gauge on my box it is pretty cool.On the freeway to melbourne my box temp was close to air temperature. Perhaps he is right.Maybe it is the cooler cooling it too much.This goes against conventional advice that cooler transmssions last longer.

Think of it like an engine, they run best at a certain operating temp.
Below this and pistons aren't the correct shape and size, clearances are greater etc. Wear is significantly increased.
Above this and things grow and clearances get tighter and wear is also accelerated.

Everything has an optimum operating temperature.

Mind you, I still think you should ditch the auto.
Even when they are working properly, they are still junk.