"Speed Cameras" are about to get better, or worse?

Daymoe · 02-10-2008, 02:18 PM

CRIMTRAC's planned automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) system could become a mass surveillance system, taking as many as 70 million photos of cars and drivers every day across a vast network of roadside cameras.

Quote:

State and federal police forces want full-frontal images of vehicles, including the driver and front passenger, that are clear enough for identification purposes and usable as evidence in court.

"All vehicles passing through a fixed or mobile ANPR camera will have the data recorded and available for interrogation," CrimTrac told the Queensland TravelSafe inquiry into the use of ANPR for road safety.

"Existing camera applications, such as Safe-T-Cam, red light and speed cameras could be upgraded where necessary to provide constant live streaming to a central database.

"National connectivity would be achieved through secure digital networks for fixed cameras. Law enforcement agencies would also use mobile units."

David Vaile, executive director of the University of NSW's Cyberspace Law and Policy Centre, warned that the ANPR "could become the next Access Card".

"As a public surveillance system that could be linked to facial recognition, this has enough technology behind it to impinge on everybody's daily life," Mr Vaile said.

"CrimTrac has told us there will be 5000 cameras around the country, overwhelmingly in populated areas, taking some 70 million photos every day.

"There'll be maybe 1000 cameras in downtown Sydney, close to that number in Melbourne, perhaps 100 or so in Brisbane.

"If you use the main roads, you're likely to be snapped several times a day, and all those photos and any related data will be held by CrimTrac for up to five years."

Mr Vaile said it was false to represent the proposal as number plate recognition: "It's a photograph-all-drivers system."

At present, there are an estimated 300 fixed ANPR cameras and 100 mobile units in Australia.

CrimTrac is due to hand a $2.2 million scoping study for an integrated ANPR to the Minister for Home Affairs, Bob Debus, and the Ministerial Council for Police and Emergency Management in November.

According to a privacy consultation paper issued in June, all ANPR data collected would be made available to participating agencies in real time, and retained for five years for future investigations.

The national system would consist of "sightings data from all cameras in all jurisdictions of all vehicles that pass the camera points".

CrimTrac proposes siting fixed cameras at state border crossings, on main roads, in city centres and around infrastructure such as ports.

CrimTrac ANPR program manager Darren Booy said road transport, police and national security agencies had agreed images were needed for certain vehicle sightings.

"At times, police might not know that a vehicle is stolen or wanted in connection with a crime such as armed robbery until some time after the event," he said.

"Therefore, there's a requirement to capture all vehicle sightings and make those images available for analysis and data matching either immediately or at a later time."

Mr Booy said no decision had been made on the period for which images would be kept.

Images would be retained in cases where a vehicle was on a hot list of stolen or unregistered cars, or in cases involving unlicensed drivers or people wanted by police.

"Police and road authorities are already using ANPR in Australia, albeit on a small scale," Mr Booy said.

"Its use is growing, and the technology offers wide benefits in the spheres of road safety, criminal investigation and national security.

"We do see opportunities to upgrade existing systems into a high-quality infrastructure, and provide national capabilities at a lower overall cost."

Mr Booy said CrimTrac had looked at concerns on the accuracy and reliability of ANPR technology.

"It's important to recognise that existing local systems are quite disparate, with different standards not only in relation to data accuracy, but also the management of hot lists," he said.

"Drawing on experiences in Britain (where there is blanket ANPR surveillance), we are proposing a framework that overcomes a lot of those issues."

Should the state and federal ministers agree on a nationwide system, planning and building it would take a number of years to complete, Mr Booy said.

Meanwhile, the Queensland Government's TravelSafe report into ANPR suggests there are limited road safety benefits compared with the costs involved.

A VicRoads and Victoria Police trial had encountered problems with the accuracy and timeliness of information.

"There may be missing or incomplete fields in data sets, which means the software may flag a vehicle that is legitimately registered," VicRoads chief executive Gary Liddle said.

"Delayed payments could also mean a vehicle identified as unregistered is incorrectly flagged by the system."

The TravelSafe committee recommended that data relating to vehicles not found to be committing an offence should be "cleansed nightly to minimise the possibility of security breaches".

Reference:

http://www.australianit.news.com.au/...-15306,00.html

xtremerus · 02-10-2008, 03:05 PM

Big Brother at work, AGAIN.
All motorists are treated as criminals, AGAIN.

Fev · 02-10-2008, 03:12 PM

atleast its not as bad as england yet

Daymoe · 02-10-2008, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtremerus

Big Brother at work, AGAIN.
All motorists are treated as criminals, AGAIN.

Hey! Speed cameras make the roads safer remember!

Pfft, I'm on my Ls and I'm sick of hearing this crap. We might not be as bad as what England has it like, but we'll get there soon Fev,.

Soon our speed cameras will be proving a 1920x1080 full HD resolution video haha.

GORDZ · 02-10-2008, 03:40 PM

I guess it's like they say... obey the law or steal someone elses plates

AusM · 02-10-2008, 05:17 PM

At least it's not illegal to drive with a balaclava on yet!

FPVF6X201 · 02-10-2008, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFdesign

At least it's not illegal to drive with a balaclava on yet!

Or a front number plate obscured by mud (accidently of course)

:

snappy · 02-10-2008, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPVwannabe

Or a front number plate obscured by mud (accidently of course)

:

I 95% sure you are mistaken

Daymoe · 02-10-2008, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFdesign

At least it's not illegal to drive with a balaclava on yet!

Funnily enough I actually own one LOL. I don't think I should try it next time i drive though.

Biggav · 02-10-2008, 06:25 PM

have had passengers in my car all wearing racing helmets before used to get the most stangest looks from other people in waiting cars haha

Fairlane · 02-10-2008, 06:44 PM

Got my first speed camera fine in the mail today very ****ed off. 76 in a 60 zone (which i doubt i was doing about 71 indicated, so probably even less again, when flash went). Beautiful 4 lane dual carriageway with no interruptions and only a 60 zone... very homo. Ruined my perfect driving record. Nice way to end my interstate excursion to buy a house in QLD, Since ive left QLD it appears to have turned into Victoria, those bloody white Mercedes vans everywhere, i really dont know how the Victorians keep there licences at all.

Looks like its only going to gets worse from that article- time v distance calculations, the works. Travelsafe commitee, who pays these poofters. Anyone now how hard it is to fit James Bond style revolving number plates ?

Geez Louise · 02-10-2008, 06:57 PM

Don't Speed...don't get caught! Simple really! If you speed..cop the fine and be done with it...no use cryin..do the crime..pay the fine!

FPV8U · 02-10-2008, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geez Louise

Don't Speed...don't get caught! Simple really! If you speed..cop the fine and be done with it...no use cryin..do the crime..pay the fine!

No.. your right Speed cameras are 100% accurate

S3SR · 02-10-2008, 07:05 PM

*cough* revenue raising *cough* :thebirds:

thank god its not in QLD.... yet , although it almost impossible to speed while everyone does 50 and brakes for slight turns in the road

tex · 02-10-2008, 07:06 PM

I did my second 600k round trip for the week today, spotted two cameras (went past each twice) and both were set up half way along overtaking bays........... straight stretches of dual lane road designated for overtaking, in an otherwise single lane 110 highway. A highway peppered with caravan towing touros, B doubles and other speed 'limited' vehicles.

You can imagine the 'free for all' at every overtaking bay.................. the $$$$$$$$ would have been rolling in.

This week in total, Ive seen 5 speed cameras, EVERY one of them attached to an unmarked car 20 - 50m off the road in the bushes..........

You make your own mind up, but imo these points of revinue aquistion for the local Gov have well and truely past reasonable. It is plainly robbery, not targeted at so called black spots, and makes me furious.

balthazarr · 02-10-2008, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geez Louise

Don't Speed...don't get caught! Simple really! If you speed..cop the fine and be done with it...no use cryin..do the crime..pay the fine!

The problem is it's a very slippery slope...

Today, speeding motorists;
In future... who knows?

Geez Louise · 02-10-2008, 07:15 PM

Hey! I didn't want to cause a debate.... * sits in the corner sucking her thumb*

azaxr8 · 02-10-2008, 07:16 PM

soon we wont have cars. i hope you have your walking boots cause thats all the government will give us.

Daymoe · 02-10-2008, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geez Louise

Don't Speed...don't get caught! Simple really! If you speed..cop the fine and be done with it...no use cryin..do the crime..pay the fine!

Its quite easy to go 3km/h over the limit by accident, especially in Dad's car which you really have to put the boot in to get moving up hills, holding down the accelerator the slighest bit more than usual will also get you there in about a minute if that without you even realising.

Its better them being not so tight-arsed on the speeding fines than me not looking at the road but at my speedo isn't it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by azaxr8

soon we wont have cars. i hope you have your walking boots cause thats all the government will give us.

The speed cameras will then be placed on the pathway, if anyone goes over 5km/h which is the average walking pace then you get fined from the police, if your walking boots squeak then you get defected from VicPathways or the Pathway Traffic Authority (In other states) or if they leave rubber on the pathway you get fined by the Environmental Pathway Authority.

Geez Louise · 02-10-2008, 07:26 PM

Woah! Don't shoot the messager...I know how easy it is to speed...but all I am saying is...if you get done...fess up! It is easy to do 65 in a 60 zone...just don't complain about it when you get done!

fmc351 · 02-10-2008, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tex

It is plainly robbery, ....

Theres a gun to your head? You mean you dont expect a fine if you break the law? Its just a little law? The law doesnt apply where you think its silly?

Whats plainly clear is its an idiot tax.

I agree Louise, its easy done, and the adult thing to do is cop it sweet.

Sapper · 02-10-2008, 07:40 PM

I really do think that this is overkill and that there are bigger problems that I would want dealt with first. Example, the disempowering of teachers and parents, or the recent spikes in rates of stalking and of glassing attacks in Sydney recently.

I would rather see money spent on reducing violent crime.

BeStRaFe · 02-10-2008, 07:43 PM

this is all because our socuity puts such a high value on human life.
however... if you are STUPID enough to do the wrong thing then you DESERVE to get done..

i have the electronic aids of my GPS and my road angel.. because sometimes you pull onto a road and have NO IDEA what the speed limit is.

RG · 02-10-2008, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

Theres a gun to your head? You mean you dont expect a fine if you break the law? Its just a little law? The law doesnt apply where you think its silly?

Whats plainly clear is its an idiot tax.

I agree Louise, its easy done, and the adult thing to do is cop it sweet.

Actually in Victoria it is technically robbery as the 3km/h rule is in direct contradiction to the national ADR stating a vehicles speedometer must only be within 10% of the actual speed traveled.

geckoGT · 02-10-2008, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 90sFTW

The speed cameras will then be placed on the pathway, if anyone goes over 5km/h which is the average walking pace then you get fined from the police, if your walking boots squeak then you get defected from VicPathways or the Pathway Traffic Authority (In other states) or if they leave rubber on the pathway you get fined by the Environmental Pathway Authority.

And they will have pathway emissions testing equipment, if you have not changed your socks and your feet smell, a fine from the EPA for noxious gas emissions (for gods sake don't fart).

Seriously, I have two major concerns with this.

1 Cost of this infrastracture compared to benefit to the community. Could those funds be better utilised with more police presence which has a proactive effect of crime prevention rather than reactive in catching the guilty bugger after the crime has been commited. I have always believed prevention is better than prosecution. I have always been against speed cameras as they have negated the need for extra police in order tocatch speeders. A cop is better than a camera every time as the cop with a radar can also handle unsafe driving, defective vehicles and respond to other crimes if required, a camera can't.

2 Security of the data, no computer, no matter how advanced is hack proof. What guarantee do the public have that this information will not fall ino the wrong hands. Imagine the system designed to catch the crooks becomes their most valuable tool in surveilance of future targets. Think about it, by monitoring a strategic camera, the bad guys can learn the travel habits of all the residents in an area, therefore knowing which houses to break into and when. Sounds far fetched I know, but not impossible when you think the smarter the system becomes, the smarter the crooks become.

4Vman · 02-10-2008, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

Theres a gun to your head? You mean you dont expect a fine if you break the law? Its just a little law? The law doesnt apply where you think its silly?

Whats plainly clear is its an idiot tax.

I agree Louise, its easy done, and the adult thing to do is cop it sweet.

This is the bit i just don't understand.. put all the "fair" or "justification" stuff to one side, speed camera fines are a voluntary tax, nobody is forced to contribute, ive driven for over 20 years, over 600000 k's in mostly performance V8 vehicles, but ive only been booked once, so nobody will ever convince me they're unavoidable.

Geez Louise · 02-10-2008, 08:05 PM

We could debate about this til the cows come home...end of the day...do the crime...pay the fine!

4Vman · 02-10-2008, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geez Louise

We could debate about this til the cows come home...end of the day...do the crime...pay the fine!

That's it, no point complaining, if you were over the limit and got caught you have to wear it, imagine if everyone drove within the limit for one month, surely it isnt that hard.... not a single fine.. i bet the camera's would dissapear quick smart because they'd cost a fortune to opperate without "donations"....

Daymoe · 02-10-2008, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

That's it, no point complaining, if you were over the limit and got caught you have to wear it, imagine if everyone drove within the limit for one month, surely it isnt that hard.... not a single fine.. i bet the camera's would dissapear quick smart because they'd cost a fortune to opperate without "donations"....

The problem is getting people to do that.

4Vman · 02-10-2008, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 90sFTW

The problem is getting people to do that.

Yep.. obeying speed limits is no different to obeying any other road law, tailgating, running red lights, failing to indicate, its about concentration and diligence....
I'll bet anything you care to wager if speed camera infringements dropped dramatically over a sustained period they'd disappear due to running costs exceeding revenue, the challenge is to drive by the rules people!!!