Ford President Tom Gorman...how good is he!

[Cuey]

Guys,

Have a read of this. I have all the faith in the world that Ford is on the right track and we should see some good results just around the corner.

http://editorial.carsales.com.au/car...w/2870784.aspx

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Cuey

Guys,

Have a read of this. I have all the faith in the world that Ford is on the right track and we should see some good results just around the corner.

http://editorial.carsales.com.au/car...w/2870784.aspx

He is also in GoAuto today saying new Falcon is not make or break for local manufacturer. Shortly there will be a puff piece about how Focus has turned around, the Mondeos lack of sales is exactly what he expected and he will hold a press conference to announce that cars are not that critical to Ford and they are in fact getting in the business of selling bridges...

Oh and he mentioned somewhere he was a possibility of leaving Ford Aust before the Orion launch. I guess the man can't stand the success he is having....

I mean really. Ford is in deep and this guy is not doing what needs to be done to pull it out of a dive. Enough playing car salesman and time to act like a leader.

Dan

[Falcon Freak]

Tom Gorman doesn't care about Ford Australia as his time here is limited. He will be going back to the USA soon and that is where his priorities are. Example the agreement to closing the Geelong engine plant even though the Australia federal government gave them $20 miillion to keep the plant operating and people employed.

Bring back Geoff Polities.

FF

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

He is also in GoAuto today saying new Falcon is not make or break for local manufacturer. Shortly there will be a puff piece about how Focus has turned around, the Mondeos lack of sales is exactly what he expected and he will hold a press conference to announce that cars are not that critical to Ford and they are in fact getting in the business of selling bridges...

Oh and he mentioned somewhere he was a possibility of leaving Ford Aust before the Orion launch. I guess the man can't stand the success he is having....

I mean really. Ford is in deep and this guy is not doing what needs to be done to pull it out of a dive. Enough playing car salesman and time to act like a leader.

Dan

Very Much true!!

This upbeatness has me worried more than anything.

The same kind of confidence and know-all attitude that was around just before the AU was launched.

The problem isn't the product that is clear because people like me will put up with bad service to get their hands on a Falcon. There needs to be a shift at a grassroot level for dealers to stop being pricks.

And for God's sake hire some real marketing people!!

[Hunter]

They need to understand why people are no longer buying Falcons (or Fords in general).

There is a perception among the public that:

1) Ford dealers are a pack of four letter words who will screw you if something needs fixing under warranty

2) Falcons guzzle fuel like its going out of fashion. Even though this is not necessarily true and Falcons do get reasonably good economy these days, they seriously need to look at running costs.

3) Falcons break a lot. Again its not true but people think it is. Toyota is where they are because of a perception, not a reality. Cam-a-ries and Corollas have their own problems and like all cars they suffer from problems from time to time.

I think Ford's biggest problem is negative perceptions among the public regarding their products. Ford have consistently failed to 'feel the water' properly and when they do they release some frickin awesome products (e.g. F6 Typhoon, Turbo Territory).

If they want to survive they need to learn to adapt better and to give people what they want. And FIX YOUR DEALERS UP. Stop them from pulling crap when it comes to warranty, stop them using $8/hour apprentices who don't know what they're doing and have them bloody supervised. DO THE JOB RIGHT AND THE CUSTOMER WILL COME BACK.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Hunter

If they want to survive they need to learn to adapt better and to give people what they want. And FIX YOUR DEALERS UP. Stop them from pulling crap when it comes to warranty, stop them using $8/hour apprentices who don't know what they're doing and have them bloody supervised. DO THE JOB RIGHT AND THE CUSTOMER WILL COME BACK.

The best way to deal with that that is to sack the dealers on mass and draw up new franshise agreements that don't allow them to be shoddy or not offer the best service, because if they get the old dealers bad habits they loose the right to sell or service the brand. Fords answer to me in the past was that they can't get people to take up the franshises in rural areas like where I live.

My answer is to seperate the sales and service into two distinct and seperate deals with Ford. Not every town needs a new car outlet, but a couple of agents for service (like some good independent workshops) would at least get some competition and knock the misplaced arrogance out of of some dealer principals too. For the times I need to buy a new car, I don't mind travelling or buying over the net. Only the dealer principals who excel in customer service should be invited by Ford to hold franshises for sales and service and should loose one or both if they slip.

Dan

[tapeworm]

If Ford have one of the best small cars going around and they are still struggling, you have to question their sh!thouse marketing and dealer service, something needs to be done to enhance Fords image to the general public.

[AUXRVIII]

[QUOTE=Hunter]

3) Falcons break a lot. Again its not true but people think it is. Toyota is where they are because of a perception, not a reality. Cam-a-ries and Corollas have their own problems and like all cars they suffer from problems from time to time.

QUOTE]

Well according to a lot of people on these forums, they do break a lot and are a POS.
I had a '91 Corolla SX, hammered it for 200,000km and apart from only normal servicing a battery and 1 set of front pads and 1 set of rear nothing ever broke. Whos going to get that reliability from a falcon?
Ford Aust really do need to lift their game, why after all of these years are we still throwing lots of ball joints and control arm bushes at them and getting oil leaks?

[MNM96]

[QUOTE=AUXRVIII]
Ford Aust really do need to lift their game, why after all of these years are we still throwing lots of ball joints and control arm bushes at them and getting oil leaks?[/QUOTE

140k, no oil leaks, no ball joints, no control arm bushes.
Compared to your Corolla, no pads yet either!
1 alternator under wtty, 1 battery under wtty and 1 out of wtty.
Nearly 6 yo!

I still think of it as a new car. Excellent Motoring, I think. On the back of two Camry's, I will never buy another Toyota!

[MNM96]

Originally Posted by tapeworm

If Ford have one of the best small cars going around and they are still struggling, you have to question their sh!thouse marketing and dealer service, something needs to be done to enhance Fords image to the general public.

Good cars, well backed will market themselves. Look at the Laser! Ford need to seriously look at there after sales servicing, something which has slipped in the last 100 years, real bad! The backing is where Ford are falling down!

[prydey]

[QUOTE=AUXRVIII]

Originally Posted by Hunter

3) Falcons break a lot. Again its not true but people think it is. Toyota is where they are because of a perception, not a reality. Cam-a-ries and Corollas have their own problems and like all cars they suffer from problems from time to time.

QUOTE]

Well according to a lot of people on these forums, they do break a lot and are a POS.
I had a '91 Corolla SX, hammered it for 200,000km and apart from only normal servicing a battery and 1 set of front pads and 1 set of rear nothing ever broke. Whos going to get that reliability from a falcon?
Ford Aust really do need to lift their game, why after all of these years are we still throwing lots of ball joints and control arm bushes at them and getting oil leaks?

these forums represent a very small percentage of the total market.

i have had nemerous fords with very little problems. i even owned an ea that only ever needed a new fuel pump and nothing else except normal servicing.

my ba is yet to put a foot wrong.

how often do you visit toyota forums? you will find they have a fair range of issues as well.

ford need to work a lot harder at their marketing and after sales service. it may be no worse than the opposition but they need to build a new reputation. shake off the old fuel guzzler tag. i used to read articles in motoring magazines where the falcon was always bagged for its high fuel consumption in comparison to the other 'big 3'. now it is better than holden and not far off camry (aurion) and it hardly gets a mention when its the other way around. typical biased journalism. ford need to really hammer home that its mainstream family car is more economical than the ve commodore.

[S3SR]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Fords answer to me in the past was that they can't get people to take up the franshises in rural areas like where I live.

reason is because most will drive to the cities and shop for a cheaper price anyways, without looking at service, knowledge or even after sales, i know for a fact... i see it everyday i work...then they ring us for help....like hell

if Ford increase quality controls, and maybe even options on cars, get rid of the 1987 XF Falcon rear window manual controls for starters one feature i didnt buy an XT and the only thing i hated about my AUIII SR and it would be one feature NO ONE would be against, seperate the XR from the XT with more than a different coloured cluster and bodykit, like tickford did more power, optional kit in some models ie rebel

dealers are not that bad, they WILL push to finalise that deal and get a signature, but most of the time its all because the salespeople dont want to waste their time on tyre kickers, or people trying to screw the prices down from shop to shop until theres nothing left for the dealer, geez come on time is money, product knowledge and helpfulness is worth more than its weight in gold, and good service depart is worth selling your organs for....if not your in the wrong dealer

Ford reputation cant be taking that much of a beating lately, with record prices for Phase III GTHO's, even a black market for them

the 40th ann GT, sold out pretty quick
the new Cobra sedan / ute
Devil R/Enforcer/Craig lowndes/Magnet all those special models or runouts

advertising has increased 10 fold, focus.... the one with all those people and different models morphing into each other
the mondeo ad with the stupid celeb quotes, and the catchy music and now a slight change on the TDCi for being best car under 28k

then it ends there, meanwhile GMH had bathurst winning deals long after they lost, still have those clearout your house ads for the astra or viva or something, the holden certified used car with the mechanic going on, the VE being voted best car of a paid magazine.

if were are gonna blame anyone blame the marketing and service, IMO dealers are doing their jobs....theres no reason to get screwd over if you do some research before hand, no what prices to expect and know how much you can spend cash or finance, in the end its a business and without profit it dont exist, it doesnt exist enjoy your new commodore from 58 990 as no competition they write their own price

oh and from what i see also, people like something new and different, which may help the VE vs the BFII or a 380 or 300c or corolla/camry or dihatsu/hyundai because they can no longer afford to live "or have given up on life" as Jerremy clarkson puts it

if its off topic just delete, but its something i have discovered by working with people for almost 5 years in retail.....

(and i know i do good as im still working there, had 3 letters of recommendation and if im busy people will wait 30mins just to see me)

[5tumpy]

Originally Posted by AUXRVIII

Well according to a lot of people on these forums, they do break a lot and are a POS.
I had a '91 Corolla SX, hammered it for 200,000km and apart from only normal servicing a battery and 1 set of front pads and 1 set of rear nothing ever broke. Whos going to get that reliability from a falcon?
Ford Aust really do need to lift their game, why after all of these years are we still throwing lots of ball joints and control arm bushes at them and getting oil leaks?

With all due respect mate, you're talking our your ***... I had my AU from 90-190 thousand k's, and it needed nothing spent on it except 1 pair of FRONT brake pads, petrol, servicing and an alternator that died after doing 180,000km (not bad considering most of the dodgy AU1 alternators died under warranty).

The total I spent on it (not counting mods) would barely have been $1000 if you don't count petrol. Granted i did service it myself, but still, not bad considering it was only an "Unreliable Falcon"....


Maybe you should go back to ToyMods mate...

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by S3SR

reason is because most will drive to the cities and shop for a cheaper price anyways, without looking at service, knowledge or even after sales, i know for a fact... i see it everyday i work...then they ring us for help....like hell

if Ford increase quality controls, and maybe even options on cars, get rid of the 1987 XF Falcon rear window manual controls for starters one feature i didnt buy an XT and the only thing i hated about my AUIII SR and it would be one feature NO ONE would be against, seperate the XR from the XT with more than a different coloured cluster and bodykit, like tickford did more power, optional kit in some models ie rebel

dealers are not that bad, they WILL push to finalise that deal and get a signature, but most of the time its all because the salespeople dont want to waste their time on tyre kickers, or people trying to screw the prices down from shop to shop until theres nothing left for the dealer, geez come on time is money, product knowledge and helpfulness is worth more than its weight in gold, and good service depart is worth selling your organs for....if not your in the wrong dealer

Ford reputation cant be taking that much of a beating lately, with record prices for Phase III GTHO's, even a black market for them

the 40th ann GT, sold out pretty quick
the new Cobra sedan / ute
Devil R/Enforcer/Craig lowndes/Magnet all those special models or runouts

advertising has increased 10 fold, focus.... the one with all those people and different models morphing into each other
the mondeo ad with the stupid celeb quotes, and the catchy music and now a slight change on the TDCi for being best car under 28k

then it ends there, meanwhile GMH had bathurst winning deals long after they lost, still have those clearout your house ads for the astra or viva or something, the holden certified used car with the mechanic going on, the VE being voted best car of a paid magazine.

if were are gonna blame anyone blame the marketing and service, IMO dealers are doing their jobs....theres no reason to get screwd over if you do some research before hand, no what prices to expect and know how much you can spend cash or finance, in the end its a business and without profit it dont exist, it doesnt exist enjoy your new commodore from 58 990 as no competition they write their own price

oh and from what i see also, people like something new and different, which may help the VE vs the BFII or a 380 or 300c or corolla/camry or dihatsu/hyundai because they can no longer afford to live "or have given up on life" as Jerremy clarkson puts it

if its off topic just delete, but its something i have discovered by working with people for almost 5 years in retail.....

(and i know i do good as im still working there, had 3 letters of recommendation and if im busy people will wait 30mins just to see me)

I wasn't specifically referring to the sales side of dealerships, rather the service side. From what I've anecdotally read/heard/observed, Ford Dealerships and Service aren't terribly good things. Most of them seem to have a pretty crappy reputation for trying to deny warranty claims or trying to pass the onus back onto the owner rather than admit that there is a problem and rectifying it. This is probably fairly common with a lot of dealers for a lot of different cars but it seems that Ford dealers have earned a reputation for being like the proverbial breasts on a bull...

Personally I am very happy with my EL Falcon (apart from fuel costs but that's another story), and I always considered buying a new Falcon but the whole warranty stuff I repeatedly hear about did and does put me off.

If Ford wanted people like me, that is, people who will want to upgrade to a newer car at some point, then they need to give me a reason to buy their car over another manufacturer's offering. For me, the main selling points are reliability, cost of repair, fuel cost and that's about it. I also gain satisfaction in knowing that my car was virtually completely designed and built in Australia (well my EL is, given the different trans in the newer models, not 100% Aussie). I'd much rather buy a car designed and built by my fellow countrymen than some car designed in Japan and built in a sweatshop in SE Asia or Africa.

Resale value is nice but you don't make money from buying and selling cars anyway so it doesn't bother me that much.

[JR.]

Remember though, this is the guy who came here to run FOA as a reward for presiding over the biggest sales collapse US Ford/Mercury dealers had ever experienced in their history...

So what did we really expect after GP?

[irlewy86]

There is only one way to save Ford now



We take a couple of Orions when they are released out to the proving grounds, and then in a wild publicity stunt we race them around the track at 70 miles an hour until we rack up 70,000 miles. That will show everyone.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by S3SR

reason is because most will drive to the cities and shop for a cheaper price anyways, without looking at service, knowledge or even after sales, i know for a fact... i see it everyday i work...then they ring us for help....like hell

Understand your frustration and in IT I had the same problem. Thing is if I do buy a car from another dealer like I did last time because they were 6 grand cheaper, I still expect service from spares and service at my local dealer because I am spending my time and money in those departments. I don't consider the dealer "one organisation". If the sales guys missed the mark, that’s their problem. I am still spending money on the other departments and expect to be treated well. If the service guys do a great job over the time I have the car I will give the sales department another try when its purchase time. If they treat me like crap because I didn't buy the car from them last time, you can guess the outcome.

Conversely I have purchased a car from a good salesman and never used the service department, because they were crap. So I am guessing you would never sell me a car, because you have a chip on your shoulder about where I got the last one.
I suspect this happens often.

dealers are not that bad, they WILL push to finalise that deal and get a signature, but most of the time its all because the salespeople dont want to waste their time on tyre kickers, or people trying to screw the prices down from shop to shop until theres nothing left for the dealer, geez come on time is money, product knowledge and helpfulness is worth more than its weight in gold, and good service depart is worth selling your organs for....if not your in the wrong dealer

That again assumes the customer thinks sales and service are the same thing. I don't. I will not buy a car from a crap salesman at an uncompetitive price because he thinks he can bludge on the service departments reputation. I am interested in his ability to meet my needs at sale time, not on wether he things the mechanics can do a good grease and oil change.

Ford reputation cant be taking that much of a beating lately, with record prices for Phase III GTHO's, even a black market for them
the 40th ann GT, sold out pretty quick
the new Cobra sedan / ute
Devil R/Enforcer/Craig lowndes/Magnet all those special models or runouts

These are niche cars that appeal to Ford enthusiasts. Ford could be down to a very small market and still sell these. It in no way represents the overall market health of Ford and the sales figures reflect that.

As for your mention of tyre kickers. My wife and I went to a Mazda Dealer drive day two years ago and made it clear we were not buying a car as we had a new Falcon. We spent two hours of the salesmans time driving an RX8 and a MPS6. The salesman was professional and didn’t mind in the least. He has since invited us to drive several new models, knowing we were not going to buy at that time.

Several months ago we went back and bought the car we test drove in 2005. We had not forgotten the car or the sales service. Guess tyres kickers sometimes do that too, but you are unlikely to ever experience this if you figure we don't have the cash and brush us off.


Dan

[blackwood]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

There is only one way to save Ford now



We take a couple of Orions when they are released out to the proving grounds, and then in a wild publicity stunt we race them around the track at 70 miles an hour until we rack up 70,000 miles. That will show everyone.

I like the cut of your jib and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by JR.

Remember though, this is the guy who came here to run FOA as a reward for presiding over the biggest sales collapse US Ford/Mercury dealers had ever experienced in their history...

So what did we really expect after GP?

The sooner he goes the better, he's done a terrible job.Where's GP when you really need him. Some people think Tom was sent here to do Detroits bidding and force the V6 onto us, which could very well be true after Ford US came out recently and stated they want to reduce the number of 6 cylinder variants from 8 to just 2.

[S3SR]

maybe i worded that wrong or just dont know as im not a car salesman, but i still stand by my words that Ford franchises wont open in those areas for certain reason some relating to one i mentioned...

being a salesman is not about whether a customer comes back in 2 years time (it really isnt) its make the deal then and there or your gone (ok a little exaggerated)

dealers are not that bad, they WILL push to finalise that deal and get a signature, but most of the time its all because the salespeople dont want to waste their time on tyre kickers, or people trying to screw the prices down from shop to shop until theres nothing left for the dealer, geez come on time is money, product knowledge and helpfulness is worth more than its weight in gold, and good service depart is worth selling your organs for....if not your in the wrong dealer

no seriously thats word for word what i would tell you if i met you in person, its what we are told basically day in day out..... its not a business of making friends, if you do its a bonus, but your never rude and sometimes you have to go out of your way for customers..... believe it or not but thats what we hear from some of the best salesman trainers......maybe not the service depart part but the rest is true

EDIT: few too many secrets coming out

[Falcon Freak]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The sooner he goes the better, he's done a terrible job.Where's GP when you really need him. Some people think Tom was sent here to do Detroits bidding and force the V6 onto us, which could very well be true after Ford US came out recently and stated they want to reduce the number of 6 cylinder variants from 8 to just 2.

Bingo!

FF

[AUXRVIII]

Originally Posted by 5tumpy

With all due respect mate, you're talking our your ***... I had my AU from 90-190 thousand k's, and it needed nothing spent on it except 1 pair of FRONT brake pads, petrol, servicing and an alternator that died after doing 180,000km (not bad considering most of the dodgy AU1 alternators died under warranty).

The total I spent on it (not counting mods) would barely have been $1000 if you don't count petrol. Granted i did service it myself, but still, not bad considering it was only an "Unreliable Falcon"....


Maybe you should go back to ToyMods mate...

Talkin' out my *** huh? How many of you on here work as a tech in a Ford dealer? I do, I see first hand because I work on these things. I had a number of toyotas, so have other members of my family, all very reliable. Now they all have Fords, the only one happy with theirs in my mother who has a KJII Laser.
You need to take my opinion into context, I'm referring to what Ford are currently manufacturing, AU's are history pal. This is 2007, why are there still diff issues, ball joint issues, oil leaks from I6 sump side bolts, rear suspension upper and lower outer control arm bushes flogging out, Territory front lower control arm ball joints with high wear rates and falcon is not much better, engines getting replaced due to crankshafts not machined properly? Want me to go on?
I'll start on the issues AU had if you want!
I'm not bagging Ford, fact is the things I have mentioned here happen to be an issue because of the competiveness of the industry so Ford need to keep the cost of manufacturing down and other manufacturers are doing a better job than Ford which is why they need to lift their game.