Jaguar and Land Rover sold

Disciple · 23-12-2007, 10:33 AM

I hope this isn't a repost.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/i...nd-land-rover/

Quote:

We brought you analysis of the final bids yesterday, which hinted that a decision could be made in the next few days. As recently as a week ago it was expected that the bidder chosen to purchase Jaguar and Land Rover would be announced sometime during Q1 2008, but the news has indeed come out early, and Tata Motors is the winning bidder. Details of the sale are scant, but the previously named price of approximately US$2 billion is believed to be accurate.

Ford made no comment on the sale and is expected to withhold the announcement until the previously expected early Q1 2008 date. The news came via report in the Birmingham Post, a British newspaper, that Tata would be named the winning bidder this Friday, the 21st, reports Automotive News. The newspaper is based near the English midlands homes of the two legendary English marques.

So the saga of the sale of Jaguar and Land Rover comes to an end, and the once-great but recently challenged brands will continue on, but with new direction. Hopefully Tata will bring something of the glory each brand once had back to life. The buyout will certainly aid India’s entry into the mainstream of global automobile production. Only time will tell what will ultimately become of Jaguar and Land Rover, but we doubt we’re alone in wishing Tata the best.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/...2252070100.htm

Quote:

Reports suggest very complex commercial discussions, selection process as reasons for the delay.

Our Bureau

Mumbai, Dec. 21 The race for Ford’s Jaguar and Land Rover is well into its final leg, but the formal announcement on who will be the new owner of the two iconic brands may take just a little longer.

The Tatas seem to be in the driver’s seat for the moment and British media quoting unnamed sources had expected an informal decision on the same by this week-end.

However, a formal announcement from Ford may take more time, as the US carmaker may not want to alienate other suitors who it may need in case the deal with the favoured bidder falls through, overseas media-reports on Friday said.

Complex commercial discussions and the selection process could be reason for the delay in a formal announcement, the reports suggested.
Gas guzzlers’

Also, there are reports that major global players in the auto market did not want to take over the two iconic brands as they were known to be ‘gas-guzzlers’ at a time when emission norms are getting tighter.

But for Tata, bagging Jaguar and Land Rover would mean that the technology could be applied to its own models to strengthen its position in the domestic car market, an analyst said.

mik · 23-12-2007, 11:26 AM

i did a google i had no idea who Tata is .........sounds like this guy, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6071090.stm

Disciple · 23-12-2007, 11:34 AM

Tata is a huge Indian based company. This year alone they made a profit of USD $28.9 Billion. They make those terrible Tata work utes that look like 10 year old Hilux's and use 30 year old diesel engines.

Takeovers

* 1. Feb 2000 Tetley tea company, $407 million
* 2. March 2004 Daewoo Commercial Vehicle Company, $102 million
* 3. Aug 2004 NatSteel's steel business, $292 million
* 4. Nov 2004 Tyco Global Network, $130 million
* 5. July 2005 Teleglobe International Holdings, $239 million
* 6. Dec 2005 Millennium Steel, Thailand, $167 million
* 7. Dec 2005 Brunner Mond Group, $120 million
* 8. June 2006 Eight O'Clock Coffee, $220 million
* 9. Nov 2006 Ritz Carlton Boston, $170 million
* 10. Jan 2007 Corus, $11.3 billion
* 11. March 2007 Bumi Resources, $1.1 billion
* 12. April 2007 Campton Place Hotel, San Francisco, $60 million

Targets

* 1. Jaguar Cars and Land Rover, $2 billion
* 2. Close Brothers, $2.9 billion
* 3. Orient Express Hotels, $2.5 billion

ClevlndStemer · 23-12-2007, 01:12 PM

It will be interesting to see how they will "turnaround" Jag.
What I liked about Ford's ownership of all its makes is it provided the $$ and basically let them run it they way they see fit. Ok it didn't really work for Jag but with Aston it did and Mazda it has.

Disciple · 23-12-2007, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

It will be interesting to see how they will "turnaround" Jag.
What I liked about Ford's ownership of all its makes is it provided the $$ and basically let them run it they way they see fit. Ok it didn't really work for Jag but with Aston it did and Mazda it has.

Well, Tata actually has money, unlike Ford. Not saying they'll make Jag any good, but hey, at least the bank roll is there.

ClevlndStemer · 23-12-2007, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disciple

Well, Tata actually has money, unlike Ford. Not saying they'll make Jag any good, but hey, at least the bank roll is there.

Doesn't mean they have any idea about engineering a decent luxury car.
That's why I said it will be interesting to see what will be done with these brands under TATA.

Disciple · 23-12-2007, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

Doesn't mean they have any idea about engineering a decent luxury car.
That's why I said it will be interesting to see what will be done with these brands under TATA.

I agree with you, hence why I said "Not saying they'll make Jag any good" If they just bank roll Jag and pour a lot money into it, and leave the Jag designers (well, scratch that, fire the guy who designs them atm) and engineers to do their thing, they might be ok.

atec77 · 23-12-2007, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

Doesn't mean they have any idea about engineering a decent luxury car.
That's why I said it will be interesting to see what will be done with these brands under TATA.

TaTa have been around since before I was young and stupid , so long in fact there are TaTa truks with several millions of klks on them and still running very well... they may be ugly but they sure make tuff trucks.. suggesting a reasonable quality ?

**Polyal** · 23-12-2007, 01:33 PM

Just as both of those companies have new product coming out....

theunfairadvant · 23-12-2007, 01:47 PM

I read somewhere in the Wheels or Car mags saying that Tata is coming
to Australia with it's tough utes.

Bossxr8 · 23-12-2007, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Just as both of those companies have new product coming out....

That was Fords plan, sell them while they are on the up so they were more attractive to potential buyers, meaning they could get more for them.

Probably a good move by Ford, Land Rover aren't in a good position only selling big heavy fuel guzzlers when the whole global warming/dwindling oil supplies thing is gaining momentum, and people are turning away from SUV's.

As for Jaguar they haven't made a profit since Ford have owned them, they are dead wood, although the new XK and XF were bringing them back into a better position, but judging by their past record they will probably screw that up somehow.

fmc351 · 23-12-2007, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theunfairadvant

I read somewhere in the Wheels or Car mags saying that Tata is coming
to Australia with it's tough utes.

Must have been a few years back. Theyve been here for at least 2-3 yrs. Theres a dealership in Yandina. Well, its an old small town small caryard, that sells Tata, has done for at least 2-3 yrs, if not closer to 5.

I think they used to sell those Jumbucks too, or are those Tata anyway.

Oh its funny though, the Indians are buying the Empire.

Fairlane · 23-12-2007, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

Must have been a few years back. Theyve been here for at least 2-3 yrs. Theres a dealership in Yandina. Well, its an old small town small caryard, that sells Tata, has done for at least 2-3 yrs, if not closer to 5.

I think they used to sell those Jumbucks too, or are those Tata anyway.

Oh its funny though, the Indians are buying the Empire.

Yeah the owner of that dealership is a friend of a friend (they get their cars serviced there) and they have been selling them for years. He does ok out of them and some have done a hell of a lot of kays with no problems.

My local Ford dealership (ELN Tuggerah) is now selling Mahindra (ok not Tata but close) and they looked pretty good, well the panel gaps and paint was fine.

Tata will get a lot out of two brand, technology wise, especially Landrover, i just wonder how much they pour in Jaguar, both in England and in India with the rising middle class. I suppose the best news is we will probably get a new Landrover Defender now, i just wonder what the future of the X-typre and XF will be as i loved the S-class both old and new.

fmc351 · 23-12-2007, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairlane

Yeah the owner of that dealership is a friend of a friend (they get their cars serviced there) and they have been selling them for years. He does ok out of them and some have done a hell of a lot of kays with no problems.

Whoever said theyre an ugly looking thing was right anyway.

HSE2 · 23-12-2007, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairlane

Tata will get a lot out of two brand, technology wise, especially Landrover, i just wonder how much they pour in Jaguar, both in England and in India with the rising middle class. I suppose the best news is we will probably get a new Landrover Defender now, i just wonder what the future of the X-typre and XF will be as i loved the S-class both old and new.

One of the buzz phases of the 2000s is intellectual property.

While there is an ongoing relationship with Ford it’s hard to say how much freedom Tata will have to use technology gained from this purchase in products that might fight against the blue ovals own.

It was/has been a major point of contention. Ford has invested heavily in both JAG and LR with technology that was to be used in more of Ford’s core products. Carbon offset, pension fund and intellectual property protection all points of contention.

My understanding is that Ford has retained part ownership like they did with Aston and as such will have leverage over power train and subsystem technology.
For Tata it’s not so much a gain in technology they are after. That is just money, of which they seem to have plenty. You just go out and buy technology, but image and prestige, a way of gaining mainstream credibility, that’s something historic brands bring in spades, especially English brands associated with nobility. Takes generations to build, something a company like Tata don’t seem to have time for as they are very much in the fast lane.

Of interest to Ford fans here in Australia will be who retained or has control of the engine facility. This deal is why the reports on Ford Australia’s replacement V8 have been premature. Can’t replace with something you may not own or have to pay for as a customer. General feeling is that Ford have retained, opting for supply contracts. Details will be announced early in 08.

Tles · 23-12-2007, 06:36 PM

Have they, or haven't they - the articles I've read would suggest this though most likely is still premature. Ford seem to be saying that there will be no answer till after New Years.

The XF is already exceeding sales expectations in the UK and Land Rover operators are being sequestered to help build them. If the XJ replacement has half the looks and spiff of the XF then this Jaguar will be back with a vengeance.
Just as LandRover look to be doing too. Have heard nothing but praise from owners of LR3s including one who reckons his SE TDV6 is as good as his 06 Rangie off road and on.

**Elks** · 24-12-2007, 12:40 AM

I have stated before that the engineering resources poured into these niche brands would be better spent on Ford branded products.

Ford needs to work on making great cars, to make Ford the world leading brand it once was.

It has built some of the best cars of the last 10 years Range Rover, XJR, DB9, Vantage, V40, Mazda 3 and sold them under other brands. Whilst the members of this forum understand that Ford controlled these brands, the general pubic doesn't

My point is that the great cars need to have a Ford badge, then all Ford products get a rub off.

2cents

MethodX · 24-12-2007, 10:49 PM

There was a rumor that the FIAT group was involved, or will be in some way.
Any truth to this?

GK · 24-12-2007, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myts

I have stated before that the engineering resources poured into these niche brands would be better spent on Ford branded products.

Ford needs to work on making great cars, to make Ford the world leading brand it once was.

It has built some of the best cars of the last 10 years Range Rover, XJR, DB9, Vantage, V40, Mazda 3 and sold them under other brands. Whilst the members of this forum understand that Ford controlled these brands, the general pubic doesn't

My point is that the great cars need to have a Ford badge, then all Ford products get a rub off.

2cents

Your 2cents is right on the money. Very good observations. Hopefully Ford is thinking similar to you!

GK

Tles · 27-12-2007, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MethodX

There was a rumor that the FIAT group was involved, or will be in some way.
Any truth to this?

Supposed to be technical advisers to assist Tata in the European market, hopefully not in rust accelleration and electrical systems. Still only one report of the sale.

There are other reports saying that Mahindra & Mahindra have pulled out over concerns of operating around Ford synergies and supply contracts.

vztrt · 03-07-2009, 04:56 PM

Well seems Jag is happy being under Tata.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2575E8001D4A7B

Quote:

Jaguar leaping ahead under Tata ownership

After one year of Indian ownership, a Jaguar veteran says life is great under Tata

By DAVID HASSALL 3 July 2009

KEVIN Stride may only be in middle-age, but he has spent his entire working life for Jaguar Cars and – one year down the track from Tata Motors’ takeover – he believes the company is thriving under Indian ownership.

Mr Stride decided he wanted to be a Jaguar engineer at only seven years of age and is now the chief engineer on the highly-acclaimed XF program, so nobody could be more committed to the Jaguar brand, and he believes everyone in the company is extremely positive about life under Tata.

“There’s a real buzz around the brand at the moment,” he told GoAuto at the recent XF upgrade launch in the Hunter Valley.

“Even in a difficult world, there’s a buzz because we’re feeling empowered, we’ve got the right product line-up to go and tackle the world and we’re gaining some confidence.

“If you went to people at different function levels in Jaguar Land Rover and asked what they thought of Tata, you’d get a big thumbs-up.

“It’s a good place to be at the moment. For individuals like myself, it’s changed for the better.

“We had a great relationship under Ford. People were cynical about that, but they were a very good company to work for.

“With Tata, it’s different, but different in a good way.

"We are held accountable very clearly as an independent company, whether in engineering or marketing or finance, we are held accountable for proper business performance, which in the old regime was a little filtered. It was very difficult to see cause and effect. We were not able to be as focused as we are now.

“Tata has a very healthy way of approaching all the businesses they own. They don’t centralise it, they don’t put layers of bureaucracy in it. They evaluate the business model; if they like it, they buy the company and demand that they deliver on the business plan. You can’t just meander off and fail.

“We have a lot more focus now. Everybody down to the guy working on the shop floor understands how important things like cashflow are. Before, we might have been talking about profits, but in the world as it is now cashflow is as important as profits and everything we do has to be very carefully thought-through.

“People are almost treating it like their home finances now; they feel accountable for it and that’s brilliant for the health of the company, where people all through the company understand it’s our company and the things we do make a difference.”

Having joined Jaguar as an engineering cadet in 1987 – only two years before the struggling outfit was bought by Ford – Mr Stride is used to working with the notorious Ford Motor Co bureaucracy with its layered management and copious paperwork and reports.

He likes the more agile way Jaguar Land Rover now works and agrees it is now more autonomous than under Ford.

“Yes, definitely. There are very few people from Tata who are in the Jaguar Land Rover structure. In fact, I can only think of two.

“We get visits from (Tata Motors’ managing director) Ravi Kant and (Tata Motors’ chairman) Ratan Tata probably once a month or every two months, and they review our business performance, as you would expect, but they’re not standing over us insisting that they veto every decision we make.

“(Under Ford), you had some pretty complex levels of decision-making. Having said that, we probably had more autonomy than people gave us credit for, but there was always the risk that the decision-making wasn’t local enough and you could get conflict, which could delay decisions or force decisions the wrong way.

“Cultural change is the hardest thing to do. It does take time. But we’ve been with Tata for a year, we are more agile already, people (within JLR) are questioning why we do things and if it adds value, and we are feeling more empowered to go and attack it. If it doesn’t make any sense and it adds another layer, let’s not do it any more.

“That’s refreshing. We’ve got a long way to go, but that’s exciting. We’re in a reasonable position, but we’ve got so much to improve that the health of the company is promising.”

Mr Stride said there was no pressure on the British office to switch more sourcing to India, but did not rule it out in the future as JLR already scoured the world for the best sources for components, services and tooling – something that was already a part of the business plan Tata bought into.

Not only is the company open to doing more business in the East; it welcomes the opportunity and believes it can actually learn a lot about business from the Indians.

“Since Tata have come in, we’ve now got an insight into how they deal with Indian sources and sources within the whole of South-East Asia,” Mr Stride told us.

“My perception is that they are extremely focused businessmen and extremely principled in what they do, which is great coaching for us as a company.

“We’ve gone and looked at how they operate as a company – how they source components, how they design them, how they manufacture them – and we’ve got quite a bit to learn from them on the business side.”

In return, Mr Stride said Jaguar is able to offer an insight into quality processes in the premium world.

“In terms of our engineering simulation and development, we’re pretty advanced for a company the size of Jaguar Land Rover. That’s something we’ll be able to provide benefit to the Tata Group in years to come.”