Greece what now

[mmhmm]

Hi Everybody,
Not sure if anybody cares but thought i'd ask.

If Greece bails out from the EU and they tell the creditors to " F OFF "
what happens to them when they run out of money to buy things or supplies?.
how will they restart?

What jobs or industries will they put in place ,i understand a few countries have gone done this track but what now for them?

just curious!@

[blk6t]

There are lots of scenarios and unknowns at this stage, essentially at the moment the country is facing a shortage of money with banks now looking at collapse.

If Grexit happens, the central bank would need to create a new currency by printing money (not sure how this gets funded with no $$$ and this in turns creates new debt). But this doesn't fix the problem, the currency would then need to be valued on a global basis and most likely be worthless which would cause massive inflation and higher unemployment.

Not only that but a default on all current debt would be painful to Greece's neighbours.

This is essentially a collapse and full reset of a country's economy.

[mechanic]

Whatever happens we should take note, and at all costs avoid making the same mistakes.
From reading the information available on the internet [ it's all 100% true isn't it ? ] it seems they were piling money into their public service [ The Gaurdian reported that some Greek PS wages had doubled in the last decade ] and not bothering to tax the upper income earners.

Seems we're on the same track, some public servants on $300 - $400 in 2012-13 are now on $600-$700 +.

Our recent federal governments don't seem to be too keen to chase up corporations that are using off shore tax havens to reduce their tax payable here.

[malazn mafia]

Probably Greece goes on auction to the highest bidder. Apple would probably have enough money to buy Greece.

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Probably Greece goes on auction to the highest bidder. Apple would probably have enough money to buy Greece.

iGreece?

How about Microsoft seeings how Greece will likely crash?

[LG17]

Some of the countries up in arms, eg Germany should think very clearly on their next move. I certainly hope they don't forget that Greece has previously waived their debt.

Whatever happens, things must change, the Greek pensions for starters are not sustainable as are some of their wages. The government must find a way to rein in their outgoings and increase tax, whether the people like it or not.

[SSD-85]

I daresay things will get greecy....


Yes, I went there. :p

[Yellow_Festiva]

If Greece dumps the Euro I wonder which country will be next?

I have a few 100 Billion Zimbabwe dollars floating around, wonder what's that worth in Drachma???

Such a shame really, seems it was self inflicted too. Wonder how much the 2004 Olympics had to do with this?

[castellan]

Originally Posted by LG17

Some of the countries up in arms, eg Germany should think very clearly on their next move. I certainly hope they don't forget that Greece has previously waived their debt.

Whatever happens, things must change, the Greek pensions for starters are not sustainable as are some of their wages. The government must find a way to rein in their outgoings and increase tax, whether the people like it or not.

Why should Germany bother with fools, as they are the ones who thought clearly for years, but the Greek as been a foolish nation, who want's other people to pay for their socialist stupidity.
The righting has been on the wall for years, pointing it out to the cunning lazy Greeks, that think others can just come and bail their stupidity out.
I don't see why the German or French tax payer should have to fork out for grubs.

The hard working Greeks that came to Australia in the 50's say the same as I have just put forward.

The Idiot foolish socialism they played, can just not work and we in Australia are sadly following in swallowing the same moronic foolish rubbish as they do.

It's the Political Correct type of Nazis, that push all this brain dead filth that destroys people and nations, and if one try's to stand up this bunch of Nazi PC types, you will find out that they are the most cunning bastards, who will stop at nothing to get their own way.

[bobthebilda]

Its not Greece that has the biggest problem, its all those that hold Greek debt. The old saying that "if you owe the bank $1000, you have a problem, if you owe the bank $1 million, the bank has a problem" certainly applies here.

There certainly will be some pain for Greece in the near term, but it will be nothing compared to the pain it would have suffered for many decades by trying to pay back its debts. Look at the steps Germany took to try and get out of paying debts it owed from World War One. The same lenders that are going to be taking a bath on current Greece debt, will be lining up in a few years time, when Greece clears its decks and is seeking more money.

Greece has a GDP around the same size as Queensland, nothing huge on a European scale, and nothing noticeable on a World Scale. I think they have a solution anyhow, the Greeks will move into Italy, Bulgaria and Turkey etc, and the Africans will be shipped into Greece. It will stop the boat people after they realise they have an instant $100,000 debt each, the minute they land in Greece.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

If Greece dumps the Euro I wonder which country will be next?

I have a few 100 Billion Zimbabwe dollars floating around, wonder what's that worth in Drachma???

Such a shame really, seems it was self inflicted too. Wonder how much the 2004 Olympics had to do with this?

It's the only way forward for the Greeks nation to survive in the future is to have a lower value currency.

Australia needed a lower Dollar and everyone knows that was the best option for us.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by castellan

Why should Germany bother with fools, as they are the ones who thought clearly for years, but the Greek as been a foolish nation, who want's other people to pay for their socialist stupidity.
The righting has been on the wall for years, pointing it out to the cunning lazy Greeks, that think others can just come and bail their stupidity out.
I don't see why the German or French tax payer should have to fork out for grubs.

The hard working Greeks that came to Australia in the 50's say the same as I have just put forward.

The Idiot foolish socialism they played, can just not work and we in Australia are sadly following in swallowing the same moronic foolish rubbish as they do.

It's the Political Correct type of Nazis, that push all this brain dead filth that destroys people and nations, and if one try's to stand up this bunch of Nazi PC types, you will find out that they are the most cunning bastards, who will stop at nothing to get their own way.

You beat me to it Castellan...

[LG17]

Originally Posted by castellan

Why should Germany bother with fools, as they are the ones who thought clearly for years, but the Greek as been a foolish nation, who want's other people to pay for their socialist stupidity.
The righting has been on the wall for years, pointing it out to the cunning lazy Greeks, that think others can just come and bail their stupidity out.
I don't see why the German or French tax payer should have to fork out for grubs.

The hard working Greeks that came to Australia in the 50's say the same as I have just put forward.

The Idiot foolish socialism they played, can just not work and we in Australia are sadly following in swallowing the same moronic foolish rubbish as they do.

It's the Political Correct type of Nazis, that push all this brain dead filth that destroys people and nations, and if one try's to stand up this bunch of Nazi PC types, you will find out that they are the most cunning bastards, who will stop at nothing to get their own way.

Are you forgetting that Germany went through a phase where the "ordinary" German was caught up in some fool's terrible thinking? They wanted to world to pay for their "socialist stupidity."

I already said that things would have to change...

[castellan]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Its not Greece that has the biggest problem, its all those that hold Greek debt. The old saying that "if you owe the bank $1000, you have a problem, if you owe the bank $1 million, the bank has a problem" certainly applies here.

There certainly will be some pain for Greece in the near term, but it will be nothing compared to the pain it would have suffered for many decades by trying to pay back its debts. Look at the steps Germany took to try and get out of paying debts it owed from World War One. The same lenders that are going to be taking a bath on current Greece debt, will be lining up in a few years time, when Greece clears its decks and is seeking more money.

Greece has a GDP around the same size as Queensland, nothing huge on a European scale, and nothing noticeable on a World Scale. I think they have a solution anyhow, the Greeks will move into Italy, Bulgaria and Turkey etc, and the Africans will be shipped into Greece. It will stop the boat people after they realise they have an instant $100,000 debt each, the minute they land in Greece.

The people running Germany were fools before and after WW1 and it was only mainly one dude that got the nation out of the mess and it did not take long at all to turn it all around and then, so much so that the very wealthy people in the UK started to freak right out, knowing that they had no hope of competing with an economy like Germanys, so they did everything they could to kick start WW2. destroying England in the process of the madness.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by LG17

Are you forgetting that Germany went through a phase where the "ordinary" German was caught up in some fool's terrible thinking? They wanted to world to pay for their "socialist stupidity."

I already said that things would have to change...

That's true.
People are just so easily miss lead.

[zilo]

I agree with Castellan, talk about a society that thinks they are owed a luxurious lifestyle.

They certainly come across as an irresponsible country who have just had a vote to NOT pay back money they borrowed.

maybe if all us here at AFF decided to have a vote to not repay our mortgages that would have the same validity?

FFS...what a bunch of self centered twats. having a vote to not pay back legitimate debts.


What are they thinking?

Don't think I'll be lending my sidchrome tools to any greek from now on...

(he might have a vote with his mates to say he doesn't have to give them back)

[FPV+fteT3]

Explanation of the Greek Bailout.
It is a slow day in a little Greek Village. The rain is beating down and the streets are deserted.
Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit.
On this particular day a rich German tourist is driving through the village, stops at the local hotel and lays a €100 note on the desk, telling the hotel owner he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night.
The owner gives him some keys and, as soon as the visitor has walked upstairs, the hotelier grabs the €100 note and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher.
The butcher takes the €100 note and runs down the street to repay his debt to the pig farmer.
The pig farmer takes the €100 note and heads off to pay his bill at the supplier of feed and fuel.
The guy at the Farmers' Co-op takes the €100 note and runs to pay his drinks bill at the taverna.
The publican slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at the bar, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer him "services" on credit.
The hooker then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the hotel owner with the €100 note.
The hotel proprietor then places the €100 note back on the counter so the rich traveller will not suspect anything.
At that moment the traveller comes down the stairs, picks up the €100 note, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money, and leaves town.
No one produced anything.
No one earned anything.
However, the whole village is now out of debt and looking to the future with a lot more optimism.
And that is how the bailout package works!

[FGX335]

But that involves paying back your debts, something they have voted not to do. Interesting times ahead, as long as the hooker gets paid!

[mmhmm]

Originally Posted by blk6t

There are lots of scenarios and unknowns at this stage, essentially at the moment the country is facing a shortage of money with banks now looking at collapse.

If Grexit happens, the central bank would need to create a new currency by printing money (not sure how this gets funded with no $$$ and this in turns creates new debt). But this doesn't fix the problem, the currency would then need to be valued on a global basis and most likely be worthless which would cause massive inflation and higher unemployment.

Not only that but a default on all current debt would be painful to Greece's neighbours.

This is essentially a collapse and full reset of a country's economy.

im not sure on this but, can't the greeks print money but its valued against GOLD?
Right now I heard on the news there was an asian bank to who would offer loans to countries and help in debt , i think Australia is a founding member for it, would you think they would offer investment or aid? perhaps its a new reform that we don't know of.

If they work off a lower currency as others have mentioned in this post, wouldn't be beneficial for them to get a agricultural industry up or manufacturing , starting off with the basics and start exporting to increase investment and bring money into their country?. is that how its going to work?

could we face something like this ?

[Iggle Piggle]

Why don't they Nimble it?

[superyob]

Are billions wiped off our shares and super because it is used to pay Greece's debt?

[jpblue1000]

Or

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/gr...of-debt-2015-7

Greece has effectively voted to default on its debt to the IMF and the EU, and it is a massive defeat for Germany’s Angela Merkel and the troika she led, which insisted there was no way out for Greece but to pay back its massive debts.
The vote is huge lesson for conservatives and anyone else who thinks this is about a dilettante government of left-wing idealists who think they can flout the law while staging some kind of Che Guevara-esque dream:
Wrong.
This is what capitalism is really about.
From the beginning, Merkel and the EU have operated from the position that because Greece took on debt, Greece now needs to pay it back. That position assumed — bizarrely, in hindsight — that debt only works one way: if you lend someone money, then they pay it back.
But that is NOT how free markets work.
Debt is not a guarantee of future payments in full. Rather, it is a risk that creditors take, in hopes of maybe being paid tomorrow.
The key word there is “risk.”
If you’re willing to take the risk, you’ll get a premium — in the form of interest.
But the downside of that risk is that you lose your money. And Greece just called Germany’s bluff.
The IMF loaned Greece 1.5 billion euros, due back in June, and Greece isn’t paying it back. Greece has another 3.5 billion due to the ECB in July, and that looks really doubtful right now.
This is how capitalism works. The fact that it took a democratically elected government whose own offices are adorned with posters of Lenin, Engels and Guevara to teach this lesson to Germany is astonishing.
More astonishing still is that Merkel et al knew Greece could not pay back this debt before these negotiations started. The IMF’s own assessment of Greek debt, published just a few days ago, states: “Coming on top of the very high existing debt, these new financing needs render the debt dynamics unsustainable …”
“Unsustainable”! Germany’s own bankers knew Greece couldn’t pay this back. And yet Merkel persisted.
Take a look at Greek GDP. In order to pay back debt, you have to have a growing economy. That’s a basic law of economics. It’s how credit cards work. It’s how mortgages work. And it is how sovereign/central bank debt works. But Greece’s economy was never in a position to benefit from debt, because it has been shrinking for years:

There is another key fact that the Greeks are keenly aware of (but which everyone else has forgotten). This debt was initially owed to private investment banks, like Goldman Sachs. But the IMF and the ECB made the suicidal decision to let those private banks transfer that debt to EU insitutions and the IMF to “rescue” Greece. As Business Insider reported back in April, former ECB president Jean-Claude Trichet insisted that the debt transfer take place:

The ECB president “blew up,” according to one attendee. “Trichet said, ‘We are an economic and monetary union, and there must be no debt restructuring!'” this person recalled. “He was shouting.”

The result was that the ECB made this catastrophically stupid deal with Greece, according to our April report:

And so there was no restructuring agreed for Greece. The country paid off its immediate debts to the private financial sector — investment banks, basically — and replacement debt was laid onto European taxpayers. The government agreed to a package of harsh government spending cuts and structural reforms in exchange for loans totalling €110 billion over three years.

Trichet made a colossal, elementary mistake. The right place for risky debt by definition is in the private markets, like Goldman. The entire point of private debt investment is that those creditors are prepared for a haircut. The risk absolutely should not be borne by central banks who rely on taxpayer money for bailouts.
In fact, had Trichet made the opposite decision — and left the Greek debt with Goldman et al — then today’s vote would be a footnote rather than a headline in history. “Goldman Sachs takes a bath on Greek debt.” Who cares? Goldman shareholders and clients, surely. But it would not have triggered a crisis at the heart of the EU.
Now Italy, Spain and Portugal are watching Greece closely, and thinking, hey, maybe we can get out of this mess too.
Now, before we all start singing “The Red Flag” and breaking out old videos of “The Young Ones” in celebration, let’s inject a note of realism. Greece isn’t actually a country full of crazy socialists who don’t understand how the FX markets work. In fact, a huge chunk of its tax collection problems stem from the fact that there are two and a half times more self-employed and small business people in Greece than there are in the average country. And small businesses are expert at avoiding tax, Greece’s former tax collector told Business Insider’s Mike Bird recently.
Conservatives who hate paying taxes and who urge small businesses to pursue tax avoidance strategies take note: Your dream just came true in Greece.
If Greece was more socialist — more like Germany, with its giant corporations that have massive unionised workforces paying taxes off their payrolls — then tax collection would be a lot higher in Greece.
Greece is now likely an international pariah on the debt markets. It may have to start printing its own devalued drachma currency. It will have no access to credit. Sure, olive oil, feta and raki will suddenly become incredibly cheap commodities on the export markets. Tourism in Greece is about to become awesome. But mostly it will be awful. Unemployment will increase as Greece’s economy implodes.
But the awfulness will be Greece’s alone. Greece is now on its own path. It is deciding its own fate.
There is something admirable about that.

JP

[superyob]

So this dilemma has been brought about by 'conservatives who hate paying taxes', not the socialists who are free with everyone else's money?

[zilo]

Originally Posted by FPV+fteT3

Explanation of the Greek Bailout.
It is a slow day in a little Greek Village. The rain is beating down and the streets are deserted.
Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit.
On this particular day a rich German tourist is driving through the village, stops at the local hotel and lays a €100 note on the desk, telling the hotel owner he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night.
The owner gives him some keys and, as soon as the visitor has walked upstairs, the hotelier grabs the €100 note and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher.
The butcher takes the €100 note and runs down the street to repay his debt to the pig farmer.
The pig farmer takes the €100 note and heads off to pay his bill at the supplier of feed and fuel.
The guy at the Farmers' Co-op takes the €100 note and runs to pay his drinks bill at the taverna.
The publican slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at the bar, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer him "services" on credit.
The hooker then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the hotel owner with the €100 note.
The hotel proprietor then places the €100 note back on the counter so the rich traveller will not suspect anything.
At that moment the traveller comes down the stairs, picks up the €100 note, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money, and leaves town.
No one produced anything.
No one earned anything.
However, the whole village is now out of debt and looking to the future with a lot more optimism.
And that is how the bailout package works!

Nahh...much easier to go to the bank get them to print out a bank cheque on the laser printer and pay everyone off that way.

Who needs real money....cause what does the butcher do with the bank cheque?

He puts it in the bank...so no money really needed now is it?

The only time it falls apart is when everybody wants to withdraw...then they have to show you the money.

Fact is there isn't as much as there should be.

Banking is a huge international ponzy scheme...thats why banks get bailed out...so that a run isn't started.

Because there isn't as much money as people think.

Banks will always offer you a free bank cheque, bPay, transfer between accounts etc.

Because they don't collectively have enough to match the deposits.

Scarey....?


The ratio of depositors funds to available cash is called the fractional reserve.

The US was 13% but is now 17% since the GFC.

Have a guess which countries in the world have a zero fractional reserve?


It ain't Greece...its Australia,UK,Canada and Sweden....


that's scarey....

If something goes wrong they don't have to have any money available for you.

At least in Greece the atm's still work...




.

[GASWAGON]

I heard that the Greeks have a retirement age of 56!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by CoolBFWagon

I heard that the Greeks have a retirement age of 56!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I heard it was 50.

[LG17]

Didn't know they worked!

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by blueoval

I heard it was 50.

It was years ago - at full pay !

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

It was years ago - at full pay !

And they wonder why they are broke.

[Whitey-AMG]

I don't care whose fault it is. The ripple effect means the Aussie market has closed 17bn down on opening. Not all is due to the EU debt and some is FX variance but it in part it means my super and investments are likely to take a hit of sorts with more likely to come.

The creditors , the Germans , the IMF all gambled and lost big time. The warning signs have been there since 2010 so this should not have been unexpected. 5 years of austerity measures have done SFA to manage the debt or to change the habits of the Greek people. What it did do was shrink their economy even further and cause greater unemployment further fuelling an already basket case economy.

So who's next ? Portugal , Spain , Italy ?

I reckon this is only the beginning and more to come as there may be fewer and fewer countries able to float the Euro whilst maintaining their own living standards.

Someone bet big and lost and now we'll all likely pay down the line somehow.
Capitalism at its best ( and worst )