E49 Chargers

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

I thought so too!
The Chargers were and are a beautiful car but it didn't reflect this on the race track. Most Ford fanatics know Ford at the time of the HO's were underquoting both power and acceleration times (as they still do now) and the Phase 3's were way quicker than what was on paper.

I love watching the old car races you you see on video/dvd and stuff that gets uploaded on the net. I really enjoy watching the GTHO phase III in just leaving everything for dead in a straight line at high speeds. the deserve the reputation they have. would of loved to see a Phase 4 XA race thou.

[hootar]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Anyone done EFI and turbo on one of these 265s before? We all know how well the 4L I6 went with some extra help in the air department.

There are a few passionate 265 modifiers. Check this out

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GCOC3jKN_D4

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3cx5aXPpYLg

[flooded one]

the old Centrua. haven't seen one in years.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

Which E49 could do 140mph+? According to this article the blueprinted race track versions they could add an extra 1000rpm and get to 130mph which is quick, but you can't match the top end of a V8, even the article acknowledges the Phase 3's


It's a good read: http://www.chargerclubofwa.asn.au/me...asp?iMediaID=7

i was the one that typed that article out from the original magazine for the club site. I also provided all the information to make the option code decoder facility etc. for the club site too. Hell the club even made a perpetual trophy in my name :-) If you guys ever want to buy an R/T or Pacer too, I have all the original factory info on every car made including chassis number, engine number, options fitted to every car, original selling dealer etc. etc. And I can decode your Hemi engine number off the top of my head...... Yes, okay, I had problems.... :-)

AS for top speed, the Charger never had the top end legs of the HO, the Charger was all torque, the HO had the top end. And most tests saw the E49 quicker than the HO in acceleration but once wound out up top the HO always had more legs, no doubt about it. And so it should, 1.5 litres more engine for god sake, the 265 punched well about its weight, and unless you have driven a Weber fed 265 and feel it snorting and punching as you get on and off the gas in almost Euro 70s Supercar fashion, then you just will never understand the appeal. Aussie cast engine too, Aussie gearbox, Aussie diff... In reality it was the ONLY Australian Muscle Car while the rest had imported blocks, boxes and diffs...

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by mcnews

i was the one that typed that article out from the original magazine for the club site. I also provided all the information to make the option code decoder facility etc. for the club site too. Hell the club even made a perpetual trophy in my name :-) If you guys ever want to buy an R/T or Pacer too, I have all the original factory info on every car made including chassis number, engine number, options fitted to every car, original selling dealer etc. etc. And I can decode your Hemi engine number off the top of my head...... Yes, okay, I had problems.... :-)

nothing wrong with that. just means your knowledgeable about the subject.

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by mcnews

i was the one that typed that article out from the original magazine for the club site. I also provided all the information to make the option code decoder facility etc. for the club site too. Hell the club even made a perpetual trophy in my name :-) If you guys ever want to buy an R/T or Pacer too, I have all the original factory info on every car made including chassis number, engine number, options fitted to every car, original selling dealer etc. etc. And I can decode your Hemi engine number off the top of my head...... Yes, okay, I had problems.... :-)

AS for top speed, the Charger never had the top end legs of the HO, the Charger was all torque, the HO had the top end. And most tests saw the E49 quicker than the HO in acceleration but once wound out up top the HO always had more legs, no doubt about it. And so it should, 1.5 litres more engine for god sake, the 265 punched well about its weight, and unless you have driven a Weber fed 265 and feel it snorting and punching as you get on and off the gas in almost Euro 70s Supercar fashion, then you just will never understand the appeal. Aussie cast engine too, Aussie gearbox, Aussie diff... In reality it was the ONLY Australian Muscle Car while the rest had imported blocks, boxes and diffs...

Do you often type up articles? I typed up a couple of articles once for a different subject and it took me a while, then I realised that my scanner can convert a scanned article or newspaper to text, you just scan the article and then use the software to convert it to text, it saves so much time, a few of the words might get converted incorrectly, but you just go through and proof read the converted to text to find the mispellings, it's usually only a few words.

[mcnews]

I type quicker than I can fix the errors that conversion software makes. Probably about 70 words per minute.

[KW XRT]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

I thought so too!
The Chargers were and are a beautiful car but it didn't reflect this on the race track. Most Ford fanatics know Ford at the time of the HO's were underquoting both power and acceleration times (as they still do now) and the Phase 3's were way quicker than what was on paper.

The reason I like these posts so much is the E49 never gets it's due.

When are people going top sit back and toast a fantastic Aussie engineered five seater sedan that happened to be adapted to go racing.The car was never designed to win Bathurst {of course they hoped it would** it was simply up specked from a sedan and used to target the youth Market .The car was so popular that it went from 20 a day in production to 80 over night.They were so popular there was a black market for them and 10 times more popular in NZ.

The charger compared to it's Rivals was for the most part a far better balanced car it was not a pig as I have been told by mechanics who have worked on phase 111's.

The charger or more specivically the E38/E49 had far more potential than anything to date in it's first year.Had the Charger been sorted with a four speed and chrysler actually thrown some money at it the Home growns would not have seen which way it went.Remember people the Chargers first year was raced using a 3 speed gearbox.Still the car won seven well known races.Remember and I'm telling you this car was so highly geared it would do 50 to 60 MPH ion first gear.Depending on how far into the red you pushed.Honestly how well do you think they would have got this thing off the line.As I have said in my previous posts the car broke lap record after lap record but come race day they couldn't get the bloody thing off the line with getting swamped.

Chargers were terribly set up from all reports simply because they had no real development and clear tuning specs were not carried over from the pacers.The tyres of the day caused so much over steer that if the tread was not buffed back the car handled terribly simply because the tyre technology was lagging far behind the charger.

Have to remember we are talking about 70's and this country and racing at the time was pretty free and all sorts of things were used in the day.

If you believe half of what you read the Kiwi's far out shone their Aussie counter parts and were far more successful at finding that suspension tuning sweet spot.So successful at tuning Chargers was Leo Leoanard that he and others out qualified Moffits GT HO and a number of occasions and from all reports Leo made Moffit and his GT look pretty Amateurish when in fact the opposite was the case.

One of the main reasons I have learned was the moffit raced with billstien suspens {memory** in Australia.This I assume was allowed in Series production but not sure if it is legal.Certainly the chargers were not raced with this suspension and once in NZ he found out that the Kiwi's do not allow racers to use anything other than what was available off the parts list and over the counter.This from memory was one of the reason that Moffit got his back side handed to him not only in as I said above in Qually but also during the race.Moffit was said to have been so upset at the whooping his GT got that he asked for and was given a grudge match race with his Bilstien suspension and promptly beat the Leonard charger but this is hardly a fair fight.

Furthermore the more bickering that goes on the further from the truth we get concerning the E49.

While posters are BSing here and there about the top speed of the charger the fact is the Chivas car was reported on the day at being clocked at 144 MPH.This was in the wet and by a six cylinder car that was not set up for touring.It would have been way faster with a taller diff.

Just remember this weeks prior to Bathurst ford was hunkered down trying to find out why the mighty falcon was blowing 351 motors hand over fist.The way I understand it {correct me if I'm wrong** the 351's had a rev limiter the 265 did not.More 351's broke at bathurst than 265's.That is fact.

So sit back people and give a little respect to the Aussies of the day that dared to attempt to conker the mountain first time out against a factory GT Icon that had 4 to five years of development under it's belt.

While we are all crapping on, the charger thrived in a world that was not all power.Series production was the adaption of road cars to racing the early days were saw cars racing with street treaded tyres.It wasn't all power that won the day.

So while the E49 was the second gen it was never really developed in the day.Before the E49 hit the streets a motoring writer of the day quashed any hope of Chrysler and the others spending any real money on it.

A lot have said this was what killed the E49's big chance at Bathurst when the difference between out right 3rd and victory was cold wheel nuts and wheels locking on red hot wheels studs.Which was simply not tested in racing conditions.The mechanic and driver of the day admitted this to me 30 years latter.

In any case the facts if you care to check the chargers history is they beat plenty of dealer backed and factory supported GT HO'S just not the one and only one that beat it on the day.That's right in 1972 The Chivas and Beck E49 beat a gaggle of GT HO's that is fact no amount of chest beating can take that away,It just got beaten the one that counted.
The chivas Beck Charger was a privately bought E49 prepared for racing at a privately owned business and raced from start to finish by a man well into his fifties on the day.

[KW XRT]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Doesn't mean much here in Oz though.

I recon it does when you find out the Chargers were so competitive in the day in NZ that they could not give the Ho's away.That everything said about the chargers in Australia is proven to be utter dribble by anyone who claimed to know.When the facts show the Chargers race record is not only superior to it's rivals in New Zealand but shows how inferior they were when raced in a stricter more policed production based category.

Actually love the look on peoples faces When they find out that Moffits all concurring GT got sent home with it's tail between it's legs basically because it simply was not good enough up against the Chargers of the day and you have to kinda wonder why.

[KW XRT]

Turning the clock back.40 years

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps17dddf0f.jpg

[castellan]

Back in there day if you owned the whole lot of them, Monaro GTS350, XU-1, Charger E49, XY GT-HO one would have an opinion pointing out each of there weakness and strengths.
They were not racing cars they were road cars, now what car will i take for a fast long drive Sydney to Melborn say or what if it's just a quick fang on a tight road ect.

Valiant's had a history in australia as a fast 6 cyl car right from the first SV1 ford cyl were gutless, as were the the holdens, bar XU-1.
Valiant V8's are not worth talking about.
So as far as the average joe majority were borught up on 6 cyl and everyone knew valiant 6 cyl go well but handleing was crap.
Valiant's were a car ahead of there time in the begining with the SV1 but by VH came along they did not have anything but that hemi 6 cyl going for it and the Charger.

[CAMS290]

Originally Posted by castellan

Back in there day if you owned the whole lot of them, Monaro GTS350, XU-1, Charger E49, XY GT-HO one would have an opinion pointing out each of there weakness and strengths.
They were not racing cars they were road cars, now what car will i take for a fast long drive Sydney to Melborn say or what if it's just a quick fang on a tight road ect.

Valiant's had a history in australia as a fast 6 cyl car right from the first SV1 ford cyl were gutless, as were the the holdens, bar XU-1.
Valiant V8's are not worth talking about.
So as far as the average joe majority were borught up on 6 cyl and everyone knew valiant 6 cyl go well but handleing was crap.
Valiant's were a car ahead of there time in the begining with the SV1 but by VH came along they did not have anything but that hemi 6 cyl going for it and the Charger.

The E55 Charger was as fast as a HT/HG 350 or standard XW/XY GT, and faster than a LC or LJ XU1.

[Blue Roo]

Originally Posted by CAMS290

The E55 Charger was as fast as a HT/HG 350 or standard XW/XY GT, and faster than a LC or LJ XU1.

True.
If Chrysler got their act together and spent some time on the E55 Charger, (R&D and maybe even a 6 Pack Carburetors, like the RT Chargers in the US). It would have taken the crown away from Fords XY Phase 3 as the Fastest Production Car of that era.

[KW XRT]

Gee everyone's gone quiet.

If you read they above race description of the race at Oran Park in 72.

Leo Geogheon gets held up for seven laps by a torana when he eventually gets past and chases John Goss who has a 5 second lead.

Geoggheon has to deal with a 5 second lead and brakes the lap record a number of times chasing him down and only to be denied a well deserved race win by Goss repeatedly swerving and blocking action and maneuvers his falcon from side to side for the rest of the race.

If you believe the know it alls out there this could not be possible as the Charger is not a V8 does not handle and has suspect brakes.lol

[mcnews]

Everything back then had suspect brakes, lol, but on the track lots of asbestos in the pads back then could work miracles :-) But there is no doubt that back in the day the drivers had to drive around the lack of brakes and nurse them to the finish line.

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by KW XRT

Gee everyone's gone quiet.

If you read they above race description of the race at Oran Park in 72.

Leo Geogheon gets held up for seven laps by a torana when he eventually gets past and chases John Goss who has a 5 second lead.

Geoggheon has to deal with a 5 second lead and brakes the lap record a number of times chasing him down and only to be denied a well deserved race win by Goss repeatedly swerving and blocking action and maneuvers his falcon from side to side for the rest of the race.

If you believe the know it alls out there this could not be possible as the Charger is not a V8 does not handle and has suspect brakes.lol

Moffat`s XY beat the Charger by six seconds per lap at Bathurst, buts thats just one race like that article I guess.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77QdnpRT-pY

[hootar]

Yeah its good to have someone flying the Charger flag

Im a Ford man for life. But I've owned a charger for the last 27 years and I'll prob own it for the next 27 as well. (Both it and the GTF will look good parked together.) I was 17 and at uni when a mate picked me up in it. I was hooked before he grabbed 2 gear. 3 years later it was mine. IMO anyone who knocks them prob hasn't been in one. I still get the old hey charger 2 finger salute ✌️ (in a good way)when I bring the old girl out, even from teenagers.

If only Chargers had of won the Holy Grail (Bathurst) then the masses may look at them differently. I think most people should take off their Brand coloured glasses and admire our hot cars for what they are. Bl00dy hot cars that went bl00dy fast. Some around corners and some in a straight line. They all just had a bit of trouble stopping. A sign of the times I suppose. I wonder if we will get the same enjoyment when we are driving our solar powered wheel chairs around.

Now historians Is there any truth in the rumor that peter perfect use to run webers instead of strombergs on his 6cyl?

[4stanger]

Closing stages of a E49 Charger 1-2 win at Warwick Farm 1972,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhVLcDsVb3o
The full race,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMWo5QFilBc
(E49s a bit slow off the line!)
Every body had their good days and bad days at these types of events, the thing is that they should have had their act together when they got to the race that mattered the most, Bathurst.
Another thing that puzzles me is the lack of Chargers competing beyond the series production days, when they went onto Group C regs.
Looking through history, there was a few xu1s racing in a couple of rounds of the ATCC in74, 75, 76 and 1 or 2 in 77. If the E49 was such a superior race package, why wouldn't some of the privateers pick up an ex factory E49 to go racing with, in those years rather than an xu1!
Surely the 1972 E49 would have been eligible to race for a few years, if a 1973 xu1 was allowed to race in 1977!

[Rog246]

Guys you gotta remember the Super car scare that motoring journalist Evan Greene got onto the front page of every daily newspaper in the country back in the day. That caused an absolute ****** storm around the country. If I remember correctly, Ford with the phase 4, Holden LJ V8 (308), Chrysler with V8 Charger-340 with Crane cam & solid lifters 650 double pumper Holley, 4 speed with LSD & 14x8 Alloys & adjustable rear suspension.
Development on everything stopped overnight.
The story went that 18 years were going to run and buy one of these Falcons that could do (in theory) 190 mph and kill everyone!
end of story

[CyberWasp]

What is the story with the Touring Car Masters Series? I only caught the last race at Darwin the other week but the Chargers were way back in the pack.

[CAMS290]

Originally Posted by hootar

Now historians Is there any truth in the rumor that peter perfect use to run webers instead of strombergs on his 6cyl?

Brocks XU1 race cars used to have one choke of the twin choke Webbers blocked off to meet the Cams rules.

[KW XRT]

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

Moffat`s XY beat the Charger by six seconds per lap at Bathurst, buts thats just one race like that article I guess.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77QdnpRT-pY

Don't know where you get it was 6 seconds a lap quicker Moffits car from 72 got beaten by two E49's and still hasn't finished {122 Laps**.One of the E49's got two one minute penalties for being push stated because the starter wire came off and it still beat it home.Like I said Moffit still hasn't finished that race he came up seven laps short.

[KW XRT]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

What is the story with the Touring Car Masters Series? I only caught the last race at Darwin the other week but the Chargers were way back in the pack.

The guy Greg Crick {think** who qualified on the front row in Darwin with his 340 charger has been Ill and was in hospital for a time.So hope he gets well soon

[KW XRT]

Originally Posted by Arnaldo

Closing stages of a E49 Charger 1-2 win at Warwick Farm 1972,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhVLcDsVb3o
The full race,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMWo5QFilBc
(E49s a bit slow off the line!)
Every body had their good days and bad days at these types of events, the thing is that they should have had their act together when they got to the race that mattered the most, Bathurst.
Another thing that puzzles me is the lack of Chargers competing beyond the series production days, when they went onto Group C regs.
Looking through history, there was a few xu1s racing in a couple of rounds of the ATCC in74, 75, 76 and 1 or 2 in 77. If the E49 was such a superior race package, why wouldn't some of the privateers pick up an ex factory E49 to go racing with, in those years rather than an xu1!
Surely the 1972 E49 would have been eligible to race for a few years, if a 1973 xu1 was allowed to race in 1977!

Haven't seen a lot about this but I have heard the One of the geoghanes raced a yellow grace brothers sponsored VJ Charger through the 73 season and was runner up but because of a lack of development the rockers on the 265 let go in two different rounds.Had he been racing with Rolers as his competitors were doing he could well have won the Improoved production championship.

[KW XRT]

Thanks for posting that footage Arnaldo that was sweet.

They do advertise the chargers as E38 so they would be 3 speeds.

Anyone who doesn't admire the Valiant charger after that footage is kidding themselves.

Both the XU1 and the GT had years of development over the E38 as well as another gear and still the E38 hounded both cars until they came unstuck.Fantastic footage.

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by KW XRT

Don't know where you get it was 6 seconds a lap quicker Moffits car from 72 got beaten by two E49's and still hasn't finished {122 Laps**.One of the E49's got two one minute penalties for being push stated because the starter wire came off and it still beat it home.Like I said Moffit still hasn't finished that race he came up seven laps short.

Moffat`s Bathurst win in 1971. In 1972 he did get creamed by the chargers, even though he took pole position, but another XY again finished ahead of the Chargers, 2nd to Brock`s win in the Xu-1.

Im not hating on the Charger by any means, but if people wonder why they didnt get or deserve the hype that say the P2/P3, XU-1/ A9X get in Australia, is because they couldnt conquer the Mountain. Slightly higher 1/4 times and almost ten years of dominance in NZ just doesnt cut it here im sorry. Some have said that the Charger is just as desirable if not more than a P3 in NZ because of its racing history, I wont disagree with that.

[dannyxm]

Without a word of a lie, back in 94 or so, went to wrecker in Campbelltown NSW with my uncle, to get some parts for his XY. I would have been 14 or so, a guy came in to sell his VH charger, complete but in primer with 1 day rego. Sold it to the wreckers for $100.

$100, till this day i still remember GAHHHH!

It would have done them a lot of good to win at the mountain. It did the XU1 wonders, awesome machines.

[hootar]

Originally Posted by CAMS290

Brocks XU1 race cars used to have one choke of the twin choke Webbers blocked off to meet the Cams rules.

We'll not much has changed then. Bend the rules to let Holden win.

Makes a mockery of Run what ya Brung and Race what they Made.

Chrysler spent R&D on getting the right carb setup. They got it right. The others got it wrong with there strombergs.

[2011G6E]

I think one reason the Charger stands out so much is that, as good as a GT Falcon was, it was "just a Falcon with some stripes" to Mr Average in the street. However, the Charger was a completely different body shape, something like 13" shorter on a shorter wheelbase than the sedans it was based on. Even a Monaro was sometimes seen as just a "two door Kingswood", but the Charger was, in appearances, a completely different model.

Whatever...we should just all be glad that the big three car makers graced us with such cars back in the old days and that so many are still around for younger generations to appreciate and enjoy!

[chriso89]

Just discovered this thread - I to love mopars as well as my fords - I love the 6's to be honest, as long as they are not a V6 lol.