Nats Accident

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by v8capri

If you had been to previous events, you would know that you used to be able to bring alcohol in from outside.
It was then that ppl would bring in truckloads of slabs and get smashed.
not like it is now where just a few get a bit drunk.
The event used to be a lot bigger and a bit scarier.

Much more tame now. I could almost take my wife again.

Ok i see what you mean. i thought you mean't alcohol ban as in a dry event.

[greenman43]

Originally Posted by Racecraft

"SummerNats organiser Chic Henry said the only way the fence could have been safer was if concrete barriers were erected around the entire track - an option that was cost prohibitive."
:(

I think that was referring to the cruising strip around the showground. Utter BS, irrespective.

Cheers,
Brian

[EFFalcon]

Originally Posted by v8capri

this is my 14th or so summernats as an entrant, I will be back.

and i think i'll be entering with you :P

[EFFalcon]

Originally Posted by greenman43

I think that was referring to the cruising strip around the showground. Utter BS, irrespective.

Cheers,
Brian

i read it as the fence around the main arena, which was only a wire fence, had a concrete barrier been used it would have made a big difference.
but thats life, whats done is done and theres risks anywhere.

[Abacus]

Originally Posted by v8capri

Ohh you use the word apparently, that means you weren't there.
you say the event should have been canned at that point. so because of that there should be no grand champion ?? or no burnout comp ??
you think what you read in the papers is the whole truth don'y you.

oh you better not drive your car, you may have an accident and then we will have to whip you. and lock you up. :

Refer to my earlier post, #112. Read it carefully. If the words are too big for you to understand, get someone to explain them to you.

Put bluntly, if the organiser could not take reasonable steps to ensure the safety of the spectators at the events you mention, they should not have been run.

That being said, taking reasonable steps does not mean that nothing will go wrong. Even at the best run motor sport events, a wheel can go airborne and/or a car can flip over into the grandstands. It is all about risk minimisation. It is about being reasonable.

A Cyclone fence in no way, shape, or form minimises the risk of being hurt by a 1500kg+ car travelling at more than a couple of km/h. It was not a reasonable degree of protection for the spectators of the event at which the accident occurred.

Clearly, people attending the events would like them to be run, and the organiser undertook that they would be run. Accordingly, he ought to have taken reasonble steps to ensure the safety of his customers, the spectators.

[HEMI POWER]

Originally Posted by v8capri

Ohh you use the word apparently, that means you weren't there.
you say the event should have been canned at that point. so because of that there should be no grand champion ?? or no burnout comp ??
you think what you read in the papers is the whole truth don'y you.

oh you better not drive your car, you may have an accident and then we will have to whip you. and lock you up. :

I was there and this incident made me sick in the guts.I actually predicted something bad was going to happend when the Black Ute lost it the 1st time.The speeds they were drifting at was way too high for the facility and it's so called safety barriers.I just hope that those injured recover from the trauma and to the injuries that they had inflicted on the night.

[Mr. CVE]

I have said my piece and not really interested in getting in a arguement over it.

perhaps it is because the words are too big for me !!

I agree it was bad, very bad in fact. I agree there should have been a concrete wall, or more to the point not that demonstartion done where it was.
but it was done and it did happen, and yes many people will get a spanking for it.
I seriously feel that some of the comments that come from some keyboard jockeys that read the newspapers are unjust.

That is all

[X ORSMXR]

Well l am pretty sure that the ute that lost it has the same driver every time they put this display on......

ln the two instances l have seen him perform his drifting l have seen him personally lose the ute twice in his demonstration, once at Sandown and recently at Phillip lsland at the V8 Supercars....

So if these so called stunt drivers lose the vehicles on bitumen why the hell try on gravel... l think they are driving out of their abilities.....

Originally Posted by v8capri

Well I was there and had just finished driving my car around in the super cruise when it happened.
Was an unfortunate incident, and I do feel for the families involved. Also the driver I know is very distraught from the incident.

I was the staff (website) photographer for the event, and was snapping away crazily, so if you want to privmsg me a description of your car, I'll see if I got any photos, and send you URL's to download em

As Spoonage said above, the ute was being pushed a little by one of the sedans and from what I saw, he tried to push it a little harder (no, he probably shouldn't have done it, but hindsight is a ИИИИИ), and he and a number of spectators paid the price. As you say, he was very distraught about the whole thing.. That said, the CAPA guys almost definitely won't be back next year, between that and the crap they were pulling on Thursday (during which I heard third-hand, they broke something in the driveline of the third sedan, which was why they were running the ute out there instead of three sedans.. But that might just be rumour-mongering amongst the security crew).

The thing that scares me, was that the CAPA guys were drifting around the track while I was walking along the outside edge of the track after taking photos of the kid that got chosen to light the fire crackers.. At the time I wasn't too concerned, as we were all under the impression that they were professional drivers who did dirt-based drifting for a living.. Now I'm questioning whether I should have been out there shooting...

Originally Posted by v8capri

And for the summernats, was a good event.
I almost think it has got a bit tame.
The alcohol and firework ban has worked and is doing well.
The people who can it, should actually go and see the whole event, not just the 2 bad bits the tv talk about.
this is my 14th or so summernats as an entrant, I will be back.

I don't know about it getting a bit tame.. Saturday night, until the Strip show started (Can I just say, having a digital SLR with telephoto lens, staff access to the grandstand, and 2.5 frames/sec, makes for an awesome photo archive ;) ), the roads were full of maggoted drunks.. Staff had to leave their cars where they were on Saturday night, as any attempt to drive along the roadways resulted in drunken yobbos either trying to tip your car over, or throwing ИИИИ at you.. Personally, I think they should be doing like pubs, and not serve alcohol to anyone who is drunk.. But I guess that's not Summernats? This was my second summernats (first one I totally didn't enjoy, as all I saw was drunken mobs screaming for boobs on the roadways.. This time I got to see a lot more of the exhibits, etc, and will definitely be back next year)..
I know there were certainly less boobies on display on the cruise roads this year, mainly because the girls were too scared of the drunken yobbos..

Regards,

Damien

Diclaimer thingy: The above is all my personal take on the event and happenings at Summernats 19, and not at all to do with summernats management in any way, shape, or form

[HEMI POWER]

Originally Posted by ORSMXR

Well l am pretty sure that the ute that lost it has the same driver every time they put this display on......

ln the two instances l have seen him perform his drifting l have seen him personally lose the ute twice in his demonstration, once at Sandown and recently at Phillip lsland at the V8 Supercars....

So if these so called stunt drivers lose the vehicles on bitumen why the hell try on gravel... l think they are driving out of their abilities.....

Chris the way i see it the drivers are paid to perform for the crowd.There view when going out there to perform for the spectators is that the venue is going to be safe and been supervised accordingly.I blame the organiser only,the drivers only get paid to do a job,they don't get paid to make sure the arena they are participating in is safe.

Originally Posted by FPVGT

Chris the way i see it the drivers are paid to perform for the crowd.There view when going out there to perform for the spectators is that the venue is going to be safe and been supervised accordingly.I blame the organiser only,the drivers only get paid to do a job,they don't get paid to make sure the arena they are participating in is safe.

I can understand you seeing it that way, but as I see it, the drivers were paid to put on a show on a gravel track that they had been informed previously was rated to 30k/h, and they were to stay in the watered section.

So I don't think you can really lay all the blame on the organisers.. The drivers weren't really doing what they were supposed to be doing..

Regards,

Damien

Note: these are my own personal thoughts, and nothing to do with S'nats management, etc etc

[EB_5.0_WAGON]

Can someone tell me why the track at NATEX has a 30km/h speed limit or was that just imposed for the summernats event???

The reason i ask this is because i have attended a Long Track motor bike event at the same track a few years back and i can tell you those bikes were doing a hell of a lot faster than 30km/h.

I still totally agree with the comments about the ute driver not being able to drive a slippery stick up a dogs ИИИИ and that the drifting event should never have happened.

I personally dont think summernats should be canned at all but i definately think they should turn it into a DRY EVENT as no alcohol will mean no drunken idiots and a better time for EVERYONE.

[X ORSMXR]

Originally Posted by FPVGT

Chris the way i see it the drivers are paid to perform for the crowd.There view when going out there to perform for the spectators is that the venue is going to be safe and been supervised accordingly.I blame the organiser only,the drivers only get paid to do a job,they don't get paid to make sure the arena they are participating in is safe.

For sure Alex but some responsability goes to the driver as he should know how to drive to the conditions, especially after losing control the first time...And yes the Organisers are in for a hell of a time now.....

[HEMI POWER]

Originally Posted by Rendrag

I was the staff (website) photographer for the event, and was snapping away crazily, so if you want to privmsg me a description of your car, I'll see if I got any photos, and send you URL's to download em

As Spoonage said above, the ute was being pushed a little by one of the sedans and from what I saw, he tried to push it a little harder (no, he probably shouldn't have done it, but hindsight is a ИИИИИ), and he and a number of spectators paid the price. As you say, he was very distraught about the whole thing.. That said, the CAPA guys almost definitely won't be back next year, between that and the crap they were pulling on Thursday (during which I heard third-hand, they broke something in the driveline of the third sedan, which was why they were running the ute out there instead of three sedans.. But that might just be rumour-mongering amongst the security crew).

The thing that scares me, was that the CAPA guys were drifting around the track while I was walking along the outside edge of the track after taking photos of the kid that got chosen to light the fire crackers.. At the time I wasn't too concerned, as we were all under the impression that they were professional drivers who did dirt-based drifting for a living.. Now I'm questioning whether I should have been out there shooting...



I don't know about it getting a bit tame.. Saturday night, until the Strip show started (Can I just say, having a digital SLR with telephoto lens, staff access to the grandstand, and 2.5 frames/sec, makes for an awesome photo archive ;) ), the roads were full of maggoted drunks.. Staff had to leave their cars where they were on Saturday night, as any attempt to drive along the roadways resulted in drunken yobbos either trying to tip your car over, or throwing ИИИИ at you.. Personally, I think they should be doing like pubs, and not serve alcohol to anyone who is drunk.. But I guess that's not Summernats? This was my second summernats (first one I totally didn't enjoy, as all I saw was drunken mobs screaming for boobs on the roadways.. This time I got to see a lot more of the exhibits, etc, and will definitely be back next year)..
I know there were certainly less boobies on display on the cruise roads this year, mainly because the girls were too scared of the drunken yobbos..

Regards,

Damien

Diclaimer thingy: The above is all my personal take on the event and happenings at Summernats 19, and not at all to do with summernats management in any way, shape, or form

I was actually at the forefront at the VB bar on Sat night to see how bad it really gets.The way i seen it was those who wanted attention got it. :togo:
I would love to see a little more security as i was confronted by one security guard screaming in his walkie talkie OUT OF CONTROL, a few times looking quite distraught. :dr_Evil:

[HEMI POWER]

Originally Posted by Rendrag

I can understand you seeing it that way, but as I see it, the drivers were paid to put on a show on a gravel track that they had been informed previously was rated to 30k/h, and they were to stay in the watered section.

So I don't think you can really lay all the blame on the organisers.. The drivers weren't really doing what they were supposed to be doing..

Regards,

Damien

Note: these are my own personal thoughts, and nothing to do with S'nats management, etc etc

I see your point,i just hope the next one the organisers make sure the arena is fit to post this sort of event and maybe a proper briefing of the drivers involved just like any racing event that is held in this country.

[Choca]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

Where was the ban and who did it apply too? at 9am i saw people with beers in plastic cups staggering around the place. There were bars setup. JD truck was serving JD. The carlton truck had the bar, but i didn't them serve any beer, but who brings a portable bar to an event and leaves it dry?

ban as in bring your own alcohol in

[Choca]

Originally Posted by v8capri

Ohh you use the word apparently, that means you weren't there.
you say the event should have been canned at that point. so because of that there should be no grand champion ?? or no burnout comp ??
you think what you read in the papers is the whole truth don'y you.

oh you better not drive your car, you may have an accident and then we will have to whip you. and lock you up. :

Exactly my thoughts

[snypereb]

Suppose you have go to these meets and always in the back of your mind know that something like this could happen i know that the 5 year boy would not be thinking of this but its something that you have to take in cars are a very unpredictable thing things go wrong in them all the time and not just cars either people make errors aswell.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Abacus

WTF???????????????



As quoted in The Australian article, '...SummerNats organiser Chic Henry said the only way the fence could have been safer was if concrete barriers were erected around the entire track - an option that was cost prohibitive...."If we did that we wouldn't have the event," he said.'

If this is true im amazed...
Vicarious liability in its extreme.

So the first priority was to hold the event regardless and safety was secondary consideration and a budgetory issue that had financial limitations?

Properly trained or experienced "stunt drivers" should know what's safe and what isn't based on previous experience or their own assesment.. sorry but if they're experienced enough they should instinctively know that their actions might result in the car spearing off the track, or at the very least if they're entering unchartered waters take it easy... that said blind freddy could plainly see that the spectators lined up along and on the only safety feature - a flimsly cyclone fence, that they would be in the immediate firing line of a wayward vehicle, with no margin for error.
Every other motorsport event has either a preliminary barrier, raised banked spectator area, run-off traps etc so spectators are kept well back from that fence or barrier to avoid this exact thing.
Again if its unchartered territory then surely err on the side of caution?

This was not an accident, it was just a plain lack of proper risk assesment and prevention.

[OLDFORDNUT]

4Vman you have hit the nail on the head ,i only hope the family of 5 year old go see a good lawer,as its the only thing Chic Henry understands,(his wallet).maybe then they will only hold events is safe area's. its the responcibility of the event organisers to provide a safe enviroment to anyone entering the grounds.

[greenman43]

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

i read it as the fence around the main arena, which was only a wire fence, had a concrete barrier been used it would have made a big difference.
but thats life, whats done is done and theres risks anywhere.

Sorry for being unclear, I was basing my comments on something I read in the inline version of the Canberra Daily Times, this article :

http://canberra.yourguide.com.au/det...ews&m=1&y=2006

Cheers,
Brian

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Choca

ban as in bring your own alcohol in

The Ban on bringing your own alcohol in is a clever money making ploy to make you pay through the nose to buy their alcohol that they make a margin on, its not a measure to control consumption...

[trikee]

Originally Posted by spoonage

the vehicles were meant to be drifting on the wet surface of the track for traction, however, at the point of control loss, the CAPA ute was travelling on the dry surface.

they were supposed to be driving on the wet surface to keep the dust down. wetting the gravel had nothing to do with traction

[Chrispy]

I was there with some friends on saturday night.
It was an accident waiting to happen.

Firstly don't install a concrete barrier. Its the only chance little kids get to see the cars going round. Installing the barrier will also detract fom every other activity in the arena.

Secondly, the DISPLAY should have been stopped the moment the first car lost it. Either the moron behind the wheel should have pulled the pin or the people at the startline should have stopped the cars. Regardless of instructions, common sense should prevail.

Thirdly, I would be supprised if the display was paid for. It was just a big advertisment for CAPA. Why would Chick henry (or anybody else) pay to help advertise somebody.

As with all organised activities the organiseres would (maybe they didn't) have spoken to the drivers and given them instructions. That conversation will have a big bearing on the case as to who is to blame.

The call that they had to put on a display or they would be wimps is Ridiculous.
Every other car in the arena behaved like wimps, even the tripple big block tractor. Were they ridiculed? No.

The incident which I thought had the most potential to do damage was when the monaro came up beside one of the other cars (right in front of the grandstand) just a he laid the boot into it. The rear of the car flicked out and just missed pushing the monaro onto the infield (were there were plenty of people, with no gutter or fence). The monaro whould have run straight over a lot of people.

bottom line, no barriers and no driving displays above 30km/m, irrespective of "talent".
I hope both Capa and the organisers get there ИИИИ sued. I know if is was my kid that was hurt I would want the people responsible to hurt just as bad.

Chrispy

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by ORSMXR

ln the two instances l have seen him perform his drifting l have seen him personally lose the ute twice in his demonstration, once at Sandown and recently at Phillip lsland at the V8 Supercars....

That's because there is some form of run-off so they don't totally destroy the cars.

At Indy last year, they didn't spin, or damage their cars.

Concrete walls are amazing things. I'm thinking that the organisers should have put concrete walls around the exterior, despite the cost.

A chain-link fence is never, ever going to stop a ute...

[Gammaboy]

Originally Posted by AUII_SE_Ute

Concrete walls are amazing things.

Yep, the Fear of bending your car monumentally infront of the crowd has a huge effect on driving style... unless its not your car or its your "trademark" on the burnout pad...

Originally Posted by AUII_SE_Ute

A chain-link fence is never, ever going to stop a ute...

Yep, and a Suzuki Swift won't either :P

It was my first nats, won't be my last, I'll probably take the XY down for a few events on the friday, but there is no way i'd my car inside the area after midday saturday...
I can remeber years ago, there was a demo held out at a shopping centre as part of the lead up to the Adelaide street race (can't remember if it was the GP or LeMans or v8s) and the organisers screwed up and they demo'd midget sprint cars around this bit of tarmac that had been set up for go fastish, turn right. Speedway cars of course turn left on dirt... old mate put his midget car through a gap in the barriers and hit the crowd. That was the end of the demo that they ran there.... I suspect that will be the end of demos or anything on the trotting track... a 1800kg car at 80km/h has a shed load more energy than a longtrack bike (80kg tops!) at 160km/h....
Anyway, I hope The Nats don't end... I want a go at the go-whoah and grasstracking :P

[Discovery]

I don't think I should be replying on this thread at all. I have been an employee at the Summernats for 10 years (have attended even more), I know the organizer/s personally. I also know how much work goes into the event and how dedicated the staff are to the entrants, their cars and the spectators. A nicer man than Chic Henry would be hard to find.

This thread is full of the usual rumours and accusations that crop up year after year. We hear them all. There is not a shred of truth to any of them.

As far as tits & ИИИИ, to the person who posted this, look at your avatar!

I am a female and have worked the event in many capacities including promo. I have never been put in a situation I felt threatened by, in fact most of the guys are very well behaved. Sure you get the odd standard comments but that's to be expected and they are no worse than those you'd get out on the street from a bunch of young guys anyway.

[Mr. CVE]

Originally Posted by Discovery

I don't think I should be replying on this thread at all. I have been an employee at the Summernats for 10 years (have attended even more), I know the organizer/s personally. I also know how much work goes into the event and how dedicated the staff are to the entrants, their cars and the spectators. A nicer man than Chic Henry would be hard to find.

This thread is full of the usual rumours and accusations that crop up year after year. We hear them all. There is not a shred of truth to any of them.

As far as tits & ИИИИ, to the person who posted this, look at your avatar!

I am a female and have worked the event in many capacities including promo. I have never been put in a situation I felt threatened by, in fact most of the guys are very well behaved. Sure you get the odd standard comments but that's to be expected and they are no worse than those you'd get out on the street from a bunch of young guys anyway.

As an entrant and onsite camper for the last 14 Summernats I would have to 100% agree with you.
I used to take my wife and she has never had any hassles. You have to be a little wise about it.
The media will tell you all about the 0.1% of bad people, it is like the other 99.9% of good people weren't even there !!

[outback_ute]

Originally Posted by v8capri

Ohh you use the word apparently, that means you weren't there.
you say the event should have been canned at that point. so because of that there should be no grand champion ?? or no burnout comp ??
you think what you read in the papers is the whole truth don'y you.

oh you better not drive your car, you may have an accident and then we will have to whip you. and lock you up. :

Just one minor point I think he was referring to stopping the drifting display not the whole nats

[big_pete]

Originally Posted by Discovery

I don't think I should be replying on this thread at all. I have been an employee at the Summernats for 10 years (have attended even more), I know the organizer/s personally. I also know how much work goes into the event and how dedicated the staff are to the entrants, their cars and the spectators. A nicer man than Chic Henry would be hard to find.

This thread is full of the usual rumours and accusations that crop up year after year. We hear them all. There is not a shred of truth to any of them.

As far as tits & ИИИИ, to the person who posted this, look at your avatar!

I am a female and have worked the event in many capacities including promo. I have never been put in a situation I felt threatened by, in fact most of the guys are very well behaved. Sure you get the odd standard comments but that's to be expected and they are no worse than those you'd get out on the street from a bunch of young guys anyway.

i completely agree.
ive been to 12 summernats and have only missed one in the past 10 years.
and i can say it is much better than what it was a few years ago.

this insident was avoidable but you cant plan for everything.
as i understand it, 2 of the 3 drivers where told to keep it at a safe speed, but the 3rd (the one who crashed) didnt get the message.

ill certainly be back next year