Will the Holden brand survive?

[jstanovic]

It's been said be for that it doesn't help that we are a nation of slackers. It's all about lifestyle now, not working hard. Everyone has their toys, holidays, work entitlements, RDOs etc etc, no-one wants to do the grub work. How many migrants are their working as cleaners, fast food outlets, etc etc? That used to be the domain of teenagers, now many are middle aged.

No-one wants to work in a factory unless they are getting $80k pa, 5 weeks leave, super, 10 days sick leave, flexi hours, pay rise every 12/24 months, blah blah blah.

Try asking a baker about hiring staff. Trying to get young people to start at 4am is like getting blood from a stone.

Those working at the car manufacturers were on a very good wicket for a long time. The only way to get a job was when someone retired!

All the business owners I know say almost exactly the same thing. I am self employed but occasionally get help from a few acquaintances, honestly there is only 1 that I would consider employing if it came to it. Unreliability and lack of interest/initiative is the main reason.

Being committed to your job is a low priority among the workforce. Choosing not to have a big night because you have to start early in the morning is almost not considered anymore, they would rather call in sick or turn up hungover. Never mind the important job that has been booked in 4 weeks ago, cranes/traffic management organised etc etc, the **** everybody else mentality is here and has been for the last 10+ years.

How a car manufacturer can make a profit in this country is black magic.

That's just my opinion from being in my industry for 20 years.

[janddbone]

If we are looking backwards with 2020 vision, what we needed was the Commonwealth to purchase all these State elctricity assetts from the 90s onwards. Then move to a flat cost connection charge for industry, with pretty much unlimited power, even for residential use really. We had plenty of it... That is how our economy could have had an advantage while maintainig good wages, house prices etc. This would have assisted Holden and every other industry associated with it, would still be to this day.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by jstanovic

It's been said be for that it doesn't help that we are a nation of slackers. It's all about lifestyle now, not working hard. Everyone has their toys, holidays, work entitlements, RDOs etc etc, no-one wants to do the grub work. How many migrants are their working as cleaners, fast food outlets, etc etc? That used to be the domain of teenagers, now many are middle aged.

No-one wants to work in a factory unless they are getting $80k pa, 5 weeks leave, super, 10 days sick leave, flexi hours, pay rise every 12/24 months, blah blah blah.

Try asking a baker about hiring staff. Trying to get young people to start at 4am is like getting blood from a stone.

Those working at the car manufacturers were on a very good wicket for a long time. The only way to get a job was when someone retired!

All the business owners I know say almost exactly the same thing. I am self employed but occasionally get help from a few acquaintances, honestly there is only 1 that I would consider employing if it came to it. Unreliability and lack of interest/initiative is the main reason.

Being committed to your job is a low priority among the workforce. Choosing not to have a big night because you have to start early in the morning is almost not considered anymore, they would rather call in sick or turn up hungover. Never mind the important job that has been booked in 4 weeks ago, cranes/traffic management organised etc etc, the **** everybody else mentality is here and has been for the last 10+ years.

How a car manufacturer can make a profit in this country is black magic.

That's just my opinion from being in my industry for 20 years.

Yep, spot on. There's a lot of precious Aussies around these days.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by jstanovic

It's been said be for that it doesn't help that we are a nation of slackers. It's all about lifestyle now, not working hard. Everyone has their toys, holidays, work entitlements, RDOs etc etc, no-one wants to do the grub work. How many migrants are their working as cleaners, fast food outlets, etc etc? That used to be the domain of teenagers, now many are middle aged.

No-one wants to work in a factory unless they are getting $80k pa, 5 weeks leave, super, 10 days sick leave, flexi hours, pay rise every 12/24 months, blah blah blah.

Try asking a baker about hiring staff. Trying to get young people to start at 4am is like getting blood from a stone.

Those working at the car manufacturers were on a very good wicket for a long time. The only way to get a job was when someone retired!

All the business owners I know say almost exactly the same thing. I am self employed but occasionally get help from a few acquaintances, honestly there is only 1 that I would consider employing if it came to it. Unreliability and lack of interest/initiative is the main reason.

Being committed to your job is a low priority among the workforce. Choosing not to have a big night because you have to start early in the morning is almost not considered anymore, they would rather call in sick or turn up hungover. Never mind the important job that has been booked in 4 weeks ago, cranes/traffic management organised etc etc, the **** everybody else mentality is here and has been for the last 10+ years.

How a car manufacturer can make a profit in this country is black magic.

That's just my opinion from being in my industry for 20 years.

Spot on but the only problem these slackers don't realise is they won't be able to get a decent paying full time job or last in one with their attitude.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

Spot on but the only problem these slackers don't realise is they won't be able to get a decent paying full time job or last in one with their attitude.

Probably not concerned, rely on mum and dads house of finances.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by jstanovic

It's been said be for that it doesn't help that we are a nation of slackers. It's all about lifestyle now, not working hard. Everyone has their toys, holidays, work entitlements, RDOs etc etc, no-one wants to do the grub work. How many migrants are their working as cleaners, fast food outlets, etc etc? That used to be the domain of teenagers, now many are middle aged.

No-one wants to work in a factory unless they are getting $80k pa, 5 weeks leave, super, 10 days sick leave, flexi hours, pay rise every 12/24 months, blah blah blah.

Try asking a baker about hiring staff. Trying to get young people to start at 4am is like getting blood from a stone.

Those working at the car manufacturers were on a very good wicket for a long time. The only way to get a job was when someone retired!

All the business owners I know say almost exactly the same thing. I am self employed but occasionally get help from a few acquaintances, honestly there is only 1 that I would consider employing if it came to it. Unreliability and lack of interest/initiative is the main reason.

Being committed to your job is a low priority among the workforce. Choosing not to have a big night because you have to start early in the morning is almost not considered anymore, they would rather call in sick or turn up hungover. Never mind the important job that has been booked in 4 weeks ago, cranes/traffic management organised etc etc, the **** everybody else mentality is here and has been for the last 10+ years.

How a car manufacturer can make a profit in this country is black magic.

That's just my opinion from being in my industry for 20 years.

On a positive note,
We've just put on eight trainees into our engineering/ technical support group
The applicants at stage 1 were 400 and of them, the kids were so good that we
could have picked up to 150 of them all top notch kids, it was really tough to narrow
it down to just eight to train.

So you see I have a completely different view of kids wanting a job, we see the driven ones
where as I guess you tend to see more of those in the 5.3% unemployed but looking for work
group that are less than motivated. I wonder if that's because we already have lots employed.

[John 13]

Originally Posted by bungarra

Started with the Button Plan enforced by Keating, the first FTA and cuts in tariffs in 1985.
Even Keating in his autobiography says he was proud of what he did to the Australian Automotive Industry and had he remained PM for another term, he would have got rid of all subsidies.

The hard part is, the unions backed the Button plan and the tariff cuts.

There is an undeniable conflict between maintaining our middle class living standard (supported by our expected household income ) and Australia being a willing (bit) player in international trade agreements. They buy the dirt we dig up and load onto their ships and we buy their **** consumer goods, including cars. Incidently GM was bailed out during the GFC by the US govt to such an extent that for a time it was widely referred to in financial circles as Government Motors.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jstanovic

All the business owners I know say almost exactly the same thing. I am self employed but occasionally get help from a few acquaintances, honestly there is only 1 that I would consider employing if it came to it. Unreliability and lack of interest/initiative is the main reason.

So you're self employed who occasionally gets help from acquaintances, of whom only one would get a job if you had to employ them officially, but you're happy to have the others 'help' if you don't have to commit to them.

Whilst I tend to agree with many of your sentiments in the rest of that post, I find it a little hypocritical that you'd question others commitment to work whilst willingly accepting 'help' from people you admit you'd never employ.

[ozpacman]

Originally Posted by jpd80

On a positive note,
We've just put on eight trainees into our engineering/ technical support group
The applicants at stage 1 were 400 and of them, the kids were so good that we
could have picked up to 150 of them all top notch kids, it was really tough to narrow
it down to just eight to train.

So you see I have a completely different view of kids wanting a job, we see the driven ones
where as I guess you tend to see more of those in the 5.3% unemployed but looking for work
group that are less than motivated. I wonder if that's because we already have lots employed.

You're exactly correct there jpd. There a still a lot of really driven young people who are vying for those good jobs, and sometimes we do tend to lose sight of that.

We have a nephew who has just completed his uni studies and commenced as a graduate engineer with a great company in Brisbane. This young bloke has amazed us his entire life with just how driven and focused he is, despite considerable tragedy in his young life. This included the loss of his dad from cancer when he was still only seven, followed by the violent death of his brother about four years after that. Adversity seems to have made him stronger and I just know he's going to go onto great things.

The situation that really concerns me in Australia though, is exactly what jstanovic refers to in his post. It's that multitude of people that once found work in the more 'everyday' and unskilled type jobs. There was a time when people in those jobs were completely happy and took pride in what they did. Their work was extremely important in the big scheme of things and certainly helped in keeping everything ticking over.

Sadly, now it seems that there's a lot of people who just can't seem to be bothered performing those unskilled roles. Is it because the social security safety net it a little to comfy for them? Is it the disappearance of those many family-run businesses who gave their workers a sense of belonging, in turn fostering loyalty, I don't know.

Somehow we need to turn it all around and get the kids all back to school and the adults all back to work!

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

On a positive note,
We've just put on eight trainees into our engineering/ technical support group
The applicants at stage 1 were 400 and of them, the kids were so good that we
could have picked up to 150 of them all top notch kids, it was really tough to narrow
it down to just eight to train.

So you see I have a completely different view of kids wanting a job, we see the driven ones
where as I guess you tend to see more of those in the 5.3% unemployed but looking for work
group that are less than motivated. I wonder if that's because we already have lots employed.

Much of it comes down to the way they are parented, but you'd be struggling to get any of the previous generation to admit its gone down hill on their watch.
My eldest Son has been working since 14.5, is 21.5 now and a month away from the completion of his first house build and has just landed a job in a bank where he'll be on $70k+.
He didn't get a private school education or go to College, in fact he dropped out after yr11 and got told by his mates that he was mad and would go nowhere in life.
All this whilst growing up in Elizabeth and surrounding suburbs.

My Nephews Brother in law had a similar story, grew up in Smithfield, went to Smithfield high which could quite likely have been the worst state high school in the country, landed a job in a bank in his early 20's and is now a finance manager with one of the big 4.

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by jstanovic

It's been said be for that it doesn't help that we are a nation of slackers. It's all about lifestyle now, not working hard. Everyone has their toys, holidays, work entitlements, RDOs etc etc, no-one wants to do the grub work. How many migrants are their working as cleaners, fast food outlets, etc etc? That used to be the domain of teenagers, now many are middle aged.

No-one wants to work in a factory unless they are getting $80k pa, 5 weeks leave, super, 10 days sick leave, flexi hours, pay rise every 12/24 months, blah blah blah.

Try asking a baker about hiring staff. Trying to get young people to start at 4am is like getting blood from a stone.

Those working at the car manufacturers were on a very good wicket for a long time. The only way to get a job was when someone retired!

All the business owners I know say almost exactly the same thing. I am self employed but occasionally get help from a few acquaintances, honestly there is only 1 that I would consider employing if it came to it. Unreliability and lack of interest/initiative is the main reason.

Being committed to your job is a low priority among the workforce. Choosing not to have a big night because you have to start early in the morning is almost not considered anymore, they would rather call in sick or turn up hungover. Never mind the important job that has been booked in 4 weeks ago, cranes/traffic management organised etc etc, the **** everybody else mentality is here and has been for the last 10+ years.

How a car manufacturer can make a profit in this country is black magic.

That's just my opinion from being in my industry for 20 years.

Problem these days is also people are put into managerial/ supervisory positions that they are completely unqualified/ unfit for and they wonder why they can’t retain/ motivate staff. In my 20 years working and 16 years in management your experiences are in the vast minority of mine.

[au2000]

Originally Posted by ozpacman

Anyone who believes that was the reason GM took their bat and ball and went home is seriously deluded.

If there was a good quid to be made then they'd have stayed. They were and are still losing money hand over fist. It was a business decision - nothing more.

IMO gm was always gonna shut holden no matter how much money the government threw at them,
If the lib's had thrown more money at them would that have stopped gm pulling out of global RHD markets?
Not a hope in hell,

[jstanovic]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

So you're self employed who occasionally gets help from acquaintances, of whom only one would get a job if you had to employ them officially, but you're happy to have the others 'help' if you don't have to commit to them.

Whilst I tend to agree with many of your sentiments in the rest of that post, I find it a little hypocritical that you'd question others commitment to work whilst willingly accepting 'help' from people you admit you'd never employ.

Not hypocritical at all. Due to personal circumstances and work type I cant hire someone full time as I don’t work 9-5 mon-fri and I can’t guarantee work for them. I only need an extra hand to do physical tasks that I can’t do every couple of months. The ones that I wouldn’t hire are either unemployed or only work when they have to. Their attitudes to work is generally poor, but a bit of quick cash seems to get them working satisfactorily for me, I pay well for what they do. Quite often half their day will be standing around watching me until I need them again, even after a day of helping me they can’t anticipate what will happen next and use initiative to prepare the next bit for me, won’t automatically start cleaning where we have just finished working even after instructing them twice beforehand etc etc etc.

In saying that I have had about 12-15 apprentices work under me when I was on wages, prob 3-4 of them I would take on myself, the others wouldn’t have lasted the probationary period. When you rock up to work, be prepared to work, keep your phone in your pocket and put effort into what you’re doing. Even after repeatedly telling some people this, subtle hints and full on blunt instructions, some still carry on like their life issues are always a priority. A simple “Sorry mate, I don’t think this will work out” soon gets the message across haha

The worst bit is instructing them over and over again, simple tasks should come to you automatically after a week working with the same guy. What do we get out the van when we get to the job? What size ladder will we need? Do we need the fixings box? To anyone slightly switched on these questions should start straight away. After a month, if you’re getting out the van and waiting for someone to tell you what to do you need to have a look at yourself. I don’t care if you ask the wrong thing or make mistakes, just show some bloody interest and initiative towards the job, don’t get out the van and start checking your phone.

My best apprentice was 52 years old, when I was only 30. He would do all the **** jobs happily, I often offered to get into roof spaces in summer just so he wouldn’t have to but he wouldn’t let me, his attitude was “I gotta learn sometime, and now’s as good a time as ever.”

[jstanovic]

Originally Posted by jpd80

On a positive note,
We've just put on eight trainees into our engineering/ technical support group
The applicants at stage 1 were 400 and of them, the kids were so good that we
could have picked up to 150 of them all top notch kids, it was really tough to narrow
it down to just eight to train.

So you see I have a completely different view of kids wanting a job, we see the driven ones
where as I guess you tend to see more of those in the 5.3% unemployed but looking for work
group that are less than motivated. I wonder if that's because we already have lots employed.

I imagine the engineering/technical role was an attractive proposition, I wonder if it was for a non-interesting role how many “good” applicants there would be. But that is what we aspire to, who wants to go for the crap job if there’s a good one going?

I believe that many people think that “boring” jobs don’t need to be taken seriously, thereby attracting less initiative-inclined people, and so the spiral continues.

Just demand and supply doing its thing.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by jstanovic

I imagine the engineering/technical role was an attractive proposition, I wonder if it was for a non-interesting role how many “good” applicants there would be. But that is what we aspire to, who wants to go for the crap job if there’s a good one going?

I believe that many people think that “boring” jobs don’t need to be taken seriously, thereby attracting less initiative-inclined people, and so the spiral continues.

Just demand and supply doing its thing.

True, the point is to have engaged employees, too many today are distracted by the slightest things, so a more menial job for the more intelligent is just a stepping stone, so you’re going to see a lot more people just passing through.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by janddbone

If we are looking backwards with 2020 vision, what we needed was the Commonwealth to purchase all these State elctricity assetts from the 90s onwards. Then move to a flat cost connection charge for industry, with pretty much unlimited power, even for residential use really. We had plenty of it... That is how our economy could have had an advantage while maintainig good wages, house prices etc. This would have assisted Holden and every other industry associated with it, would still be to this day.

We went from having one of the cheapest electricity prices in the world, to now one of the most expensive. Privatisation really worked a treat

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by minheim

Maybe there is a bit of that. However Germany, Japan and South Korea all facing nation rebuilding after war (and in the case of the two Asian countries little natural resources) managed to build viable automotive industries. Indeed South Korea is big on many fronts ship building, electronics, etc. We however wasted the opportunities of the 1950s and 1960s and I suspect a lot of that blame rests on the shoulders of the Liberal and Country parties of that era and Pig Iron Bob Menzies.

Well thats a good one eyed pov eh.......
IMO there is 3 parties to blame locally - the Blue and Red side of politcal agendas AND you cant get me im part of the Union !
I didn't need to read the article below for I've lived through a few decades since the 60's and seen what Unionism has contributed, to pricing us out of the market representing the "worker" my butt.......
IF they had any idea and care what other competing countries wages were they may have had an idea not to milk as much as they could to protect their members retaining jobs in the first place.
Anyway water under the bridge.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inq...0c003c94b2c885

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

We went from having one of the cheapest electricity prices in the world, to now one of the most expensive. Privatisation really worked a treat

I remember the NSW government saying that about privatising the compulsory third party car insurance scheme for rego, would be so much cheaper due to competition.

[minheim]

I don't buy the union bashing argument . Toyota were happy to stay but closed when Holden quit as it impacted local component viability. There are plenty of countries that pay higher wages than us but export. The root causes were tariff/FTA issues, lack of export markets and hence scale of production, which in large part is the result of Holden and Ford being shut out of the USA market by their owners and being caught out by the SUV switch. The USA was the logical market for falcon and Commodore. Remember Holden workers were ready to accept a 3 year wage freeze if Holden committed to maintaining Commodore and Cruze production beyond 2016. The price of electricity/energy (thank you privatisation and cheap exports)) also probably have been a factor.

If you look at the current issue of wage theft and wage stagnation confronting the broader economy these days that is a direct result of the constraints place on unions by the conservatives of this country. Under Howard unions lost the ability to enter workplaces to check wage records and look where we are now. The reduced ability to strike even in negotiating periods and absence of arbitration together with foreign worker visas also undermine the local economy long term. Why train apprentices if you can import cheap workers. Anyway enough of a rant.

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

We went from having one of the cheapest electricity prices in the world, to now one of the most expensive. Privatisation really worked a treat

Do you know how this all works ?
Now the power stations in QLD anyway do not get anymore money, they are getting the same amount of money that they got before this scam of ripping off the people came in.

It's all fat cats that have got on to the Government scam, all in the name of all the spastic ranting of Global warming dribble.

QLD could be charging the same amount for power that it did how many years ago, when this great scam started.

Go to the One Nation and find out what Malcolm Roberts says about all this being a great scam is all about.

[oldel]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

It's all fat cats that have got on to the Government scam

Do you know how the world works? That's a constant, no matter the party or the cause. Governments bow to their fat cats, everyone else gets poorer. Housing costs go up and some whinge blue collar workers are getting too much LOL

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by minheim

I don't buy the union bashing argument . Toyota were happy to stay but closed when Holden quit as it impacted local component viability. There are plenty of countries that pay higher wages than us but export. The root causes were tariff/FTA issues, lack of export markets and hence scale of production, which in large part is the result of Holden and Ford being shut out of the USA market by their owners and being caught out by the SUV switch. The USA was the logical market for falcon and Commodore. Remember Holden workers were ready to accept a 3 year wage freeze if Holden committed to maintaining Commodore and Cruze production beyond 2016. The price of electricity/energy (thank you privatisation and cheap exports)) also probably have been a factor.

If you look at the current issue of wage theft and wage stagnation confronting the broader economy these days that is a direct result of the constraints place on unions by the conservatives of this country. Under Howard unions lost the ability to enter workplaces to check wage records and look where we are now. The reduced ability to strike even in negotiating periods and absence of arbitration together with foreign worker visas also undermine the local economy long term. Why train apprentices if you can import cheap workers. Anyway enough of a rant.

Well said. Everyone who points the finger at unions also fails to mention auto workers in germany, the uk, usa, south korea etc all make equal or more money than australian auto workers did. And wages only make up a small % of a vehicles cost.

If wages were the sole reason for losing our auto manufacturing then china, thailand, mexico and all the other cheap wage countries would be the only ones manufacturing at all.

Don't let facts get in the way of a good union bashing though

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by jstanovic

Not hypocritical at all. Due to personal circumstances and work type I cant hire someone full time as I don’t work 9-5 mon-fri and I can’t guarantee work for them. I only need an extra hand to do physical tasks that I can’t do every couple of months. The ones that I wouldn’t hire are either unemployed or only work when they have to. Their attitudes to work is generally poor, but a bit of quick cash seems to get them working satisfactorily for me, I pay well for what they do. Quite often half their day will be standing around watching me until I need them again, even after a day of helping me they can’t anticipate what will happen next and use initiative to prepare the next bit for me, won’t automatically start cleaning where we have just finished working even after instructing them twice beforehand etc etc etc.

In saying that I have had about 12-15 apprentices work under me when I was on wages, prob 3-4 of them I would take on myself, the others wouldn’t have lasted the probationary period. When you rock up to work, be prepared to work, keep your phone in your pocket and put effort into what you’re doing. Even after repeatedly telling some people this, subtle hints and full on blunt instructions, some still carry on like their life issues are always a priority. A simple “Sorry mate, I don’t think this will work out” soon gets the message across haha

The worst bit is instructing them over and over again, simple tasks should come to you automatically after a week working with the same guy. What do we get out the van when we get to the job? What size ladder will we need? Do we need the fixings box? To anyone slightly switched on these questions should start straight away. After a month, if you’re getting out the van and waiting for someone to tell you what to do you need to have a look at yourself. I don’t care if you ask the wrong thing or make mistakes, just show some bloody interest and initiative towards the job, don’t get out the van and start checking your phone.

My best apprentice was 52 years old, when I was only 30. He would do all the **** jobs happily, I often offered to get into roof spaces in summer just so he wouldn’t have to but he wouldn’t let me, his attitude was “I gotta learn sometime, and now’s as good a time as ever.”

Yeah, you're a hypocrite.
Your attitude to others is rotten. Not all, in fact very few are like the evil lazy nitwits that you complain about. Try something radical, and treat others with some respect and humanity. No one, but the desperate would really want to work for you, with that attitude.

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Well said. Everyone who points the finger at unions also fails to mention auto workers in germany, the uk, usa, south korea etc all make equal or more money than australian auto workers did. And wages only make up a small % of a vehicles cost.

If wages were the sole reason for losing our auto manufacturing then china, thailand, mexico and all the other cheap wage countries would be the only ones manufacturing at all.

Don't let facts get in the way of a good union bashing though

Let’s not forget the economies of scale, every country you mention has a far higher new vehicle take up rate than Australia. The UK has lost a significant amount of its manufacturing industry over recent years too.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Cashie

Let’s not forget the economies of scale, every country you mention has a far higher new vehicle take up rate than Australia. The UK has lost a significant amount of its manufacturing industry over recent years too.

good points but England lost their manufacturing long ago not recent years.
If I recall right
The defenders of Unions quoting pointing the finger at them, I quoted they are 1 piece to the demise, not entirely. Reacting without re reading.
The other good point you made is "volume" us compared to those other countries - were a pin drop as all know, so wages then do erode more into the build cost right.
Those asian workers for eg don't get any type of benefits we have come accustomed to the last 30yrs for eg.
The point made regards to hardly export is a good one, but thats political and lets not forget they were/are American owned.
Here's a snippet from a article re the UK Manufacturing, has some resemblence to ours :
Great Britain's largest carmakers proved slow to adapt to changing markets and were handcuffed by their workers as well. Output at overmanned plants was hit by constant labor disputes from the 1950s, making them unproductive and unprofitable. British firms lacked the flexibility to compete abroad even as European manufacturers began targeting the U.K. market with exports of right-hand drive models.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-dec...auto-industry/

We were doomed anyway fellas, without volume/Export may have helped in the past but the other Brands are far stronger and in their turf.
The meniton of Toyota staying, well easy for them, what short margins made here or not were sure counter balanced in strength all over Asia etcetc....
They can afford it, Ford USA is weak in Asia overall, whereas GM/Chev had invested there longlong before Ford ie China, Ford is in big hurt the major market to be go figure.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jstanovic

Not hypocritical at all. Due to personal circumstances and work type I cant hire someone full time as I don’t work 9-5 mon-fri and I can’t guarantee work for them. I only need an extra hand to do physical tasks that I can’t do every couple of months.

I assume these lazy workers you get to help you do the physical tasks you cant do are fully covered by Workcover in case they become injured doing what you cant or are you like many sole traders and just have private accident insurance to cover yourself?

[minheim]

Originally Posted by FTE217

good points but England lost their manufacturing long ago not recent years.
If I recall right
.

Well you obviously are not aware that the UK produced 1.3 million cars last year (https://www.statista.com/statistics/...nited-kingdom/).

In excess of 1,237608 vehicles were exported by the UK in 2018. (https://www.statista.com/statistics/...nited-kingdom/)

In 2018 the UK produced 2.7 million car engines. (https://www.statista.com/statistics/...manufacturing/)

The UK is home to a number of different manufacturers today. Guess that suggests your view of unions is somewhat dated.

[FTE217]

I know they have recovered some but nothing like it was way back in their heydays.
Countless brands went dead or bought out made elsewhere as they are today.
Were talking car production, not engines I thought.
1.3M ain't bad but a smidgem to the main players ie VW etcetc....a smidgem.
Guess your not accurate as well.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by jpd80

True, the point is to have engaged employees, too many today are distracted by the slightest things, so a more menial job for the more intelligent is just a stepping stone, so you’re going to see a lot more people just passing through.

The problem is so many think they're above the menial work long before they've earnt the right to take the next step up. It's also funny you mention 'engaged'. I think too many have been raised to think a job has to be fulfilling. The reality is that a huge proportion of jobs are a means to an end, they aren't necessarily stimulating or particularly enjoyable. You have to be willing to sacrifice and put the time in to get a fulfilling job. Many expect to simply be handed one.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by minheim

Well you obviously are not aware that the UK produced 1.3 million cars last year

A fall in over 200k cars from 2018, a massive loss last year, and probably more of the same to come. People seem to be losing interest in paying British prices if there isn't quality to match. And I say that without bias, as I have both a Jag and a LR in my driveway.