The greatest ever Australian performance car

[roddy1960]

G'day...This will always go down in history now as the greatest Australian ENGINE of all time..Absolutely no doubt whatsoever...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFSR...g#t=125.703703 ...Overall car re the topic is a lot more subjective.
The Barra Turbo is a gem....always ....fantastic..The stock torque from the turbo is there from 1900-5200 rpm at full tap if you want it ..Can't get much better than that..What's even better is that she's bloody durable and has huge scope as far as 1000 hp (supercar catagories) if you want to spend a few bob ..Even the Holden diehards love the mighty Barra T..
...Cheers Rod..

[Express]

There is an article in the Drive section of yesterdays (5 May) Sydney Morning Herald about classic cars as an investment and of course the overseas models that have a wider international appeal are the main subject matter but it did make reference to our local product and I’ve quoted that section.

You can go to the link to read the full article.


http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/c...03-gvxw0x.html

Australian models

If you're an Aussie V8 fan, look away now.

Much of the value in collectable cars in Australia comes from overseas interest as high-end dealerships such as Sydney's Classic Throttle Shop and Melbourne's Dutton Garage regularly buy and sell cars from the UK, Asia and America for customers at home and abroad.

While that 911 R is a desirable car on every corner of the earth, the last Australian HSV GTS-R W1 - a car that costs $169,900 plus on road costs ($200,000-plus on the real world) - has limited appeal outside our shores.



2017 HSV GTSR W1


Shaun Baker, general manager of Dutton Garage, says high prices paid for Australia's last Ford Falcons and Holden Commodores represent "a very big bubble that will burst".

"Australia is a very small market," he says.

"Don't jump on the bandwagon thinking that you're going to make money."

Holden offered buyers of its final Motorsport, Director and Magnum V8-powered models a chance to have their cars delivered in protective plastic. But Baker says they are "rubbish" investments compared to cars with a global appeal.

Classic Throttle Shop spokesman Jay McCormack diplomatically says he is "not quite sure" of the investment potential of late-model Holdens.

But both salesmen are convinced by high-quality European prospects.

"These cars are commodities now. It's sad, but that's the way it is," Baker says.

"The demand will always be there. People are buying them as blue chip investments. They're not driving them - they look at the clock.

"This isn't mum and dad in the suburbs, these are blue chip investors."

McCormack agrees, saying potential investors should consider cars with appeal beyond Australia's shores. McCormack says Japanese models from the 1990s have strong potential for the future - cars such as Subaru's original two-door WRX STI models as well as Australian-delivered Nissan GT-Rs and tech-laden curiosities that may strike a nerve with millennial enthusiasts in years to come.



WRX


"Cool, iconic Japanese cars from the late 1980s and early 1990s are seeing a larger rise - definitely Nissan products and Toyota products which are quite cool," McCormack says.

"That's probably where a bit of the focus is."

Fundamentally, McCormack says people should buy something they enjoy first, because "there is no proven science or formula to buying something that's instantly going to appreciate".


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[XByoot]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day...This will always go down in history now as the greatest Australian ENGINE of all time..Absolutely no doubt whatsoever...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFSR...g#t=125.703703 ...Overall car re the topic is a lot more subjective.
The Barra Turbo is a gem....always ....fantastic..The stock torque from the turbo is there from 1900-5200 rpm at full tap if you want it ..Can't get much better than that..What's even better is that she's bloody durable and has huge scope as far as 1000 hp (supercar catagories) if you want to spend a few bob ..Even the Holden diehards love the mighty Barra T..
...Cheers Rod..

Very true,I know a few die hard Holden guys who are mechanics and tune quite a few decent cars...They have a huge respect for the Barra, they tune a Barra ute that is pretty well sorted and they rave about it,the rest they don't have much emotion for...but they aren't investors,but then again neither am I...but there's no doubt the Barra will be an iconic engine.
I'm in this hobby for fun,not money. Personally I view speculators are a whole different breed of "enthusiast" Surely and savvy investor would be putting their money into a proven appreciating asset,be it 4 wheeled or other,one that has a global attraction, as for the speculators?? Whatever

[arronm]

How can the gtho be Australia's greatest performance car when mums shopping cart blows it off. Great in 1972. Just old and slow now.

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by arronm

How can the gtho be Australia's greatest performance car when mums shopping cart blows it off. Great in 1972. Just old and slow now.

I’d like to see mums shopping cart blow off the GTHO III around the Mountain, you’re missing the operative word here when talking about “performance”, performance doesn’t just mean 1/4 mile times or traffic light battles.

Mum’s shopping cart will still be screaming it’s lung’s off coming up mountain straight while the GTHO is just clearing it’s lung’s.

Even still when talking about 1/4 mile times what mum shopping cart would pull under 14 sec times straight of the showroom floor ?, please don’t tell me you think a Camry would, Hulk is that you ?.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by arronm

How can the gtho be Australia's greatest performance car when mums shopping cart blows it off. Great in 1972. Just old and slow now.

time / place / boofhead

mums shopping cart in 72 was a beat up EK rolling a 138 grey nurse

[arronm]

It's 2017. And old slow cars are just that. Old and slow.

Performance is a package , BUT it's mostly judged by the 1/4. And mid 14s just don't cut it.

Performance. Take a look at the new hemi. 9 second quarter straight of the showroom floor.

[Nikked]

If we are going to use Bathurst as as measure of performance, then the LX A9X is certainly eligible...back to back wins, 6 lap win...lap records...dominant.

[FoureverFord]

Wow, that got everyones attention, The statement was the greatest Australian performance car, ever. That was the GTHO Phase 3 & I quote "the fastest four door production saloon car in the world" at time of manufacture, 1971. No other Australian car, no matter what shape or size since can claim that. But even though I am a ford fan, I must give an honourable mention to the GTR XU-1, was an awesome little car, I drove one when I was 14 years old, went like a scolded cat. I am 58 now. I once owned a 770 charger, 265 hemi, 3 on the floor, that put you back in your seat, not as quick as the E49. All good cars in their day, but the GTHO is King.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Nikked

If we are going to use Bathurst as as measure of performance, then the LX A9X is certainly eligible...back to back wins, 6 lap win...lap records...dominant.

It's not the only measure...I don't believe the A9X was the fastest tour door production car in the world, I also don't believe the car you bought from the dealer was the car that raced...L34 is considered by most to be a better performance car than the A9X.

With the HO the stars aligned, it was superior to everything at the time, fastest in the World, won Australia's greatest race when rules were "what you sold is what you raced" Oh it looked good...the famous HO "off the clock" on the Hume Hwy picture captured the imagination like no other.

And values, desireablity, collectability reflect that today...the undisputed king of Australian cars.

Almost feels like Holden Forum with clowns saying the A9X and XU-1 are superior cars to a Phase 3.

6 cylinder Opel and an emissions strangled 77 torana....

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by Stefan

It's not the only measure...I don't believe the A9X was the fastest tour door production car in the world, I also don't believe the car you bought from the dealer was the car that raced...L34 is considered by most to be a better performance car than the A9X.

With the HO the stars aligned, it was superior to everything at the time, fastest in the World, won Australia's greatest race when rules were "what you sold is what you raced" Oh it looked good...the famous HO "off the clock" on the Hume Hwy picture captured the imagination like no other.

And values, desireablity, collectability reflect that today...the undisputed king of Australian cars.

Almost feels like Holden Forum with clowns saying the A9X and XU-1 are superior cars to a Phase 3.

6 cylinder Opel and an emissions strangled 77 torana....

like a cheap American compact with a mustang engine shoved in huh? Phase 3
Wasn't that 6.9 litre Mercedes faster anyway....

The A9X had the Salisbury diff, super t10 gearbox and electric fans methinks, a better race car than the L34.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by MethodX

like a cheap American compact with a mustang engine shoved in huh? Phase 3
Wasn't that 6.9 litre Mercedes faster anyway....

The A9X had the Salisbury diff, super t10 gearbox and electric fans methinks, a better race car than the L34.

The 6.9 Benz was actually slower than the earlier W108 6.3. I believe official figures have the 300SEL ('68-'72) a couple of mph slower than the GTHO. In saying that who knows how accurate testing was back then. One set of figures from the opposite sides of the globe. Either way both were fastest fours doors at some stage.

What about the Charger. Ford Au shipped Moffat and his Bathurst winning GTHO over to NZ to try and curb the dominance of the Chargers in the local series... ended up getting its **** handed to it and shipped back over the Tasman.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/642607...0827511998310/

http://www.theroaringseason.com/show...ealand-In-1973

Also, wasn't the E49 the fastest six cylinder car in the world until the mid 80s BMW M5/6, and the fastest Aussie 6 until the xr6t? A great feat especially considering Chrysler Australias shoe string budget.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Stefan

It's not the only measure...I don't believe the A9X was the fastest tour door production car in the world, I also don't believe the car you bought from the dealer was the car that raced...L34 is considered by most to be a better performance car than the A9X.

With the HO the stars aligned, it was superior to everything at the time, fastest in the World, won Australia's greatest race when rules were "what you sold is what you raced" Oh it looked good...the famous HO "off the clock" on the Hume Hwy picture captured the imagination like no other.

And values, desireablity, collectability reflect that today...the undisputed king of Australian cars.

Almost feels like Holden Forum with clowns saying the A9X and XU-1 are superior cars to a Phase 3.

6 cylinder Opel and an emissions strangled 77 torana....

It is what it is
But you kinda wonder whether the legend was really in the car or the driver.
Makes you wonder where they would be without Moffat and Brock and their rivalry and driving skill. Apparently the cars were pretty rubbish as race cars as Moffat attested to many many times....

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by arronm

Who cares. All those old cars are slow now.

The new HSV gts w1 is kicking a few butts

Already old and outdated technology before it is released..

As I pointed out before a basic cheaper Tesla will bury it in any and every way. How can it be a great performance car?

HSV GTS W1 is irrelevant these days....who's buying it? Who wants it? Drive one around and who will even give it a second glance without ****ing themselves laughing that you were dumb enough to buy a new commodore for $180K.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Already old and outdated technology before it is released..

As I pointed out before a basic cheaper Tesla will bury it in any and every way. How can it be a great performance car?

HSV GTS W1 is irrelevant these days....who's buying it? Who wants it? Drive one around and who will even give it a second glance without ****ing themselves laughing that you were dumb enough to buy a new commodore for $180K.

I am not so sure in every way, do we have comparable circuit times and 100-0km/h distances? A performance car != straight line times. That is one component.

What does it matter who buys the W1? The same questions can be asked of any car. Why does someone's purchase of a car have to conform with yours or any one else standards? Who are you to judge?
Again, people could laugh at anyone who bought a performance Falcon too, outdated, poorly built, under performing and over priced based on what else is available..

[Express]

Originally Posted by Stefan

It's not the only measure...I don't believe the A9X was the fastest tour door production car in the world, I also don't believe the car you bought from the dealer was the car that raced...L34 is considered by most to be a better performance car than the A9X.

The A9X was a better handling and more reliable car than the L34 because of the addition of rear disk brakes, stronger axles and diff but you are right about the car on the track wasn’t the same as the car in the showrooms.

The track A9X still ran the pre-pollution L34 engine where the showroom A9X was fitted with the L31 which was almost similar to stock engine available in all 308 equipped Torana’s at the time with the main differences being a stronger crankshaft, different cam grind and the deleted fan.


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[Nikked]

Merc, Jag and Maserati had cars that were all labeled the "fastest 4 door" in 70-72...jaguar XJ with a 12 cylinder easily achieving over 140mph...

[arronm]

Who cares. All those old cars are slow now.

The new HSV gts w1 is kicking a few butts

[Nikked]

Plenty of people bought the W1...and people will race them

Performance cars didn't become irrelevant just because Bathurst 1000 doesn't adhere to Group N production cars. There are plenty of classes and races that people can use there cars for, the recent 6hrs of bathurst (closest even to the Bathurst the Phase 3 won) was contested by all manner of production cars including AU XR's T series and FPV GT's.

To call moden cars "irrelevant" is a very arrogant veiw to have, and does nothing but ignores the great efforts acheived in the last 40 years by both Ford and Holden.

I doubt many mondern falcon owners would appreciate there pride and joys being touted "irrelevant".

Is my XR8 irrelevant because it didn't win bathurst or get claimed to be the fastest 4 door?

Btw. Wheels just announced the FG-X sprint turbo as the greatest Australian Muscle car...as voted by fans.

[shaness8]

Vn group A would be my pic followed by the VL and VK group A then you got all brockys

[Bent8]

Let's not forget the car that started it all... the 1967 XR Falcon GT

[b0son]

Greatest? Maybe if compared to what was around at the time, but as soon as you judge it by modern standards..... cant brake, cant corner, and not nearly as quick as its reputation implies. Cars have moved on so far in half a century. Maybe what we're really arguing about is which Aus performance car has the greatest street cred, and in that case, the GTHO is peerless.

[.:4:.]

In 1988 the old man of my brothers mate bought a vl turbo that he sent off for a turbo upgrade before delivery and it ran a high 14. It was a wheels magazine feature car in 88.

[Bushbasher]

That's because they have all been grabbed up by cashed up bogans over the years and modded to within an inch of their lives. finding a clean unmodded VL turbo these days is like finding the proverbial needle in a haystack.

[arronm]

That's probably similar power to a GTHO

[Silver']

"3.0L/100km at idle"
Rrrrright, that makes perfect sense

[Nikked]

Im just trying to wrap my head around people finding a near 400rwkw result laughable...20 years ago we had the VS GTS-R with 215kw at the fly...

[arronm]

Overboost available only at optimum times. Way to much power for a lacking chassis and driveline.

[Sar4890]

If we are looking for the greatest Australian performance car price probably isn't in the equation it would depend on certain rules that you want to adhere to making the call on the best.if for example it was the best Australian performance car for the smallest price i.e best bang for your buck i would think the xr6 turbo would be a tough act to beat.

[Blue Roo]

Originally Posted by smoo

BMW M5, 4.4 turbo V8, 575hp. With claimed combined fuel figures the same as an FG XT 4.0 (9.9l/100km). Using your logic the Miami is just as much a dinosaur?
The fact the HSV uses push rods is irrelevant.
You want to bang on about effiency then drop the ICE altogether.
One eyed Ford fans still clutching at straws because HSV had the balls to give Australian and Holden Muscle a worthy send off.
Some of the attempts to discredit HSVs effort in this thread are cringe worthy and prime example why some blokes shy away from the local bogan rivalry.

Originally Posted by Bent8

Nice try... a TWIN TURBO will always make more power than a blower setup.

And staying off boost will obviously get you good economy on the highway... my GT averages the same economy cruising at 110kph

People keep saying that pushrod's are fine in 2017... well why are GM and Chrysler the only carmakers still using them?... why did everyone else spend millions to develop DOHC instead?.. if pushrod engine's are so good, why is GM thinking about switching to DOHC ?

You can get a C63 S with it's less powerful 4.0L TT V8 for the same price and match the performance of the W1 everywhere...

The GT-R has less power than the W1 but is also quicker for around the same price.

As impressive as it is, the HSV is just an over-priced Aussie muscle car (ie the Camaro ZL1 has the same engine and is half the price of the W1)

Hey! Smoo Smoo!
You've just been served.