More than one in three Holden Commodores sold is fitted with a V8 engine.

[Struggo]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

And I'll answer the same as was done before.

That VF buyers flock to the V8 because the Holden V6's are known not to be all that good.

Ford buyers don't need to buy V8's because they are spoilt by the I6 in NA form, and the I6T if they want to go even faster.

Unless of course the buyer is an enthusiast and wants the S/C Boss.

Quite different situations on each side of the fence.

Agree with most Silver Ghia however the 3.6L is a decent donk.

Back to the SS, I'd like to get my hands on the age group buying these cars as I believe most would fit in the 35-49 age bracket. When you look into this further, the demographic in question lines up with the Brock cars of the 80's, the birth of HSV and Holden's dominance throughout the late 90's and early 00's.

[BHDOGS]

As usual the well offs rorting the system to screw the tax payer.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

As usual the well offs rorting the system to screw the tax payer.

And how bloody so? Do tell .........

[Chopped]

Good to see the V8 lives on in this day and age.

[Nikked]

More then one in three?

Two?


Not surprised, since then Gen3, V8 commodores have been popular little gems.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

As usual the well offs rorting the system to screw the tax payer.

I'm sorry you're not one of the "well off's".
And I'm glad that you declare everything you earn on your sig "Repairing bseries heater shaft rods and broken door cog actuators in Adelaide" each year to the ATO.






............ you do, don't you?

[PepeLePew]

I like the VF 8 with a aftermarket exhaust they sound awesome. But it interests me that so many people have either given up hugging trees, or their fear or rising fuel prices, or have been 'educated' into thinking tech such as AFM will benefit them in their daily start stop.

Interesting reversal of a trend to smaller capacity engines. Of course there is also the pricing...putting base (very well equipped in reality) SS well with reach of a SV6 step up.

Maybe a element of midlife crisis, I know I'm having one.

[BHDOGS]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

I'm sorry you're not one of the "well off's".
And I'm glad that you declare everything you earn on your sig "Repairing bseries heater shaft rods and broken door cog actuators in Adelaide" each year to the ATO.






............ you do, don't you?

Only a well off would assume I'm not a well off because I hang **** on well offs after all how could one ever not agree with the rest of the well off I've seen both sides of life and I know which one has the real power p.s it's not us well offs

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Only a well off would assume I'm not a well off because I hang **** on well offs after all how could one ever not agree with the rest of the well off I've seen both sides of life and I know which one has the real power p.s it's not us well offs

Ah, I guess this means that you declare every repair you do so you don't rip of Taxpayers then ?

[BHDOGS]

Yup I do

[Auslandau]

You really are scaring me BHDOGS. Frightening way of thinking .......

[castellan]

Originally Posted by ltd

This is going around and around, I'm getting dizzy.

So we have conjecture and speculation, does anyone have any actual knowledge of whether Ford or Holden make profits on any of their cars because after all, they've both made several hundred million dollar losses in the last financial year so that would logically suggest that they don't make profits on their cars right?
Not baiting anyone just would like to know if there is any information about the two models and their respective profitability.
Anyone got any veritable facts?

I think it is very hard to put a finger on that as what happens is they borrow money investing in making a new model car and over X amount of years they get that back and then start making money in the black.

People come up to me and say are you wining ? yes i know what they mean but i myself have to disregard their comment because at the time my chickens haven't hatched yet, so how do i know for sure until then. it would be foolish of me to make a comment as such. i think it's just a wage earners comment just to past the time of day.

Yes Holden will be sure to make there outlay back on the commodore as that's the whole point of business.

[duaned]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Only a well off would assume I'm not a well off because I hang **** on well offs after all how could one ever not agree with the rest of the well off I've seen both sides of life and I know which one has the real power p.s it's not us well offs

Definitely not well off! I'm pretty sure "well off" people can afford to spend some money on improving their grammar!

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Only a well off would assume I'm not a well off because I hang **** on well offs after all how could one ever not agree with the rest of the well off I've seen both sides of life and I know which one has the real power p.s it's not us well offs

Or they've read your recent thread where you were asking for night shift warehouse work. This concluded in you attaining (in your own words) a "starter job" at a warehouse, which you point out is a positive career move, as the alternative would be to work security for the rest of your life (your words). Your 3 month probationary period would have ended last week, I hope you did well mate.

[LoudPipes]

Completely disregarding the turbo Fords.
I thought people bought V8 SS Commodores because they can’t afford or aren’t willing to spend the extra for a FPV or HSV.
They may not be ball tearers like the higher end jobs but there’s nothing wrong with an entry level V8.
Aussie car history has proven cheaper bare bone V8 cars sell well even back in the day when multiple capacity engines were available (example 253 against 308 or 302 against 351) and with the VF SS Commodore sporting a bit more kit and no V8 rival in the price range, for some it’s a no brainer.
Now the game is basically over but I’m sure if Ford had supplied a $35-40k V8 to compete with the SS, they would have sold as well.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

Aussie car history has proven cheaper bare bone V8 cars sell well even back in the day when multiple capacity engines were available (example 253 against 308 or 302 against 351) and with the VF SS Commodore sporting a bit more kit and no V8 rival in the price range, for some it’s a no brainer.
Now the game is basically over but I’m sure if Ford had supplied a $35-40k V8 to compete with the SS, they would have sold as well.

^^^ this post..

[BHDOGS]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Or they've read your recent thread where you were asking for night shift warehouse work. This concluded in you attaining (in your own words) a "starter job" at a warehouse, which you point out is a positive career move, as the alternative would be to work security for the rest of your life (your words). Your 3 month probationary period would have ended last week, I hope you did well mate.

I'm flattered u take such an interest in my life adrenalin althought I'm unsure how since I'm on ur famous ignore list of a-list stars as for money it's not how much u earn it's how much u save and I have to much I'm afraid

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

Completely disregarding the turbo Fords.
I thought people bought V8 SS Commodores because they can’t afford or aren’t willing to spend the extra for a FPV or HSV.
They may not be ball tearers like the higher end jobs but there’s nothing wrong with an entry level V8.
Aussie car history has proven cheaper bare bone V8 cars sell well even back in the day when multiple capacity engines were available (example 253 against 308 or 302 against 351) and with the VF SS Commodore sporting a bit more kit and no V8 rival in the price range, for some it’s a no brainer.
Now the game is basically over but I’m sure if Ford had supplied a $35-40k V8 to compete with the SS, they would have sold as well.

Exactly.

I'd like to add that the service and maintenance cost of an SS model is lower than the HSV, and for me, the SS ute is more practical than the Maloo.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Let's be honest, I don't think you're taking yourself seriously at this point. You got destroyed on every single nonsense point you made, now you're just replying for the sake of replying. You've gone from backpedaling on your own points like Holden's V8s put them hundreds of millions into debt (what?) and Ford didn't develop a V8 post-XR8 because they were smart (oh wait, they did) to flat out lies like Zeta failed to excite GM into using it globally (heard of Camaro?). You probably didn't even know what Zeta was until you read it in my post. I also like how when Ford uses government money on failed programs, it's okay. But when Holden uses it, they are the devil. Gee, you can even spin a positive out of Ford letting go workers. You are a real piece of work.

You even conceded on your original point that Holden doesn't sell enough V8s to make it worth developing them. Now you agree they sell bucketloads. That's the entire reason you entered this thread- you told someone who believed Ford should make V8s that they were under-educated (how ironic) and that 1/3 of nothing is still nothing, thus Ford's decision to not continue developing V8s was smart. Except now you also agree that Ford did keep developing V8s. But you'll still claim that Ford were smart, because they made them FPV-only. Right. You said that Holden selling their V8s put them hundreds of millions into "debt". Now you concede that they don't. Maybe we all misunderstand you. Because you don't make sense.

This is exactly why I said that I didn't want to argue with you, you're just too much of a groupie to have a reasonable exchange with. You bait people into an argument, then you switch your positions, make up facts- you're a mess. You have now been added to my ignore list, enjoy your stay

Wow...I'm going to keep this strictly in point form so as not to confuse you or flood this thread with anymore of your misunderstandings.

I'm waiting for your finance degree and MBA knowledge to explain how,in very simple terms, one car company can sell double the cars, yet have double the debt and still be seen as gods gift to your garage......

I have not as you claim made up one single fact......

I didn't, as you think, enter this thread to say anything about who what or why ford did what they did with the v8s. It was aimed at people thinking that just because Holden sells a large percentage of v8s, that this is the reason why ford should sell them too.

If you knew my stance as posted many times around here, you would know that I regret.... but back fords tough descissions to minimilize it's models over the recent years as even simple model options and combinations can be very expensive to support.

That's something a simpleton who only sees current sales figures as a measure of success would not understand. It's FAR more complex.

I'm fully aware of what the zeta program was and how it has been handled. If you call that a engineering to production success simply because it's in minor use......then I say no more!

And while were on the topic of holdens high v8 percentage.....I suppose you think holdens export programs have been a huge success aswell. I'd be interested in your thoughts on that one!

And YOU ARE WRONG...ford is certainly smarter and safer in this market for developing The ONE v8 for use.....not one for fpv and ford. That would have cost absorbatant amounts that would not be recouped. More simple econimics the simple punter often forgets....

Your the one arguing and boiling over.......all I'm after is for you to reply to the initial response where you think I'm totally biased and uneducated myself by stating the cold hard facts that Holden has far more debt then ford, with more govco funding, and no supreme Eco products to show for it either.

If you wish to correct me then do so.......FACTUALLY please!

And I'm surprised I have to add this but no. I'm not naive enough to think that ford wouldn't put their own monetary gain ahead of the aus automotive community. It's how it happens sometimes.

Maybe it's easier too simply state that the title/topic of Holden selling a high % of v8s is simply looking for some good news in a big steaming pile of bad news in our aus auto industry!

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Just understand that those of us with accounting/finance degrees & MBAs who've been watching the situation develop for the last 10 years appreciate the full picture, not just the one where Ford are masters of the universe.

I had a look and you seem to think I'm silly enough to think one descission by ford is the reason behind the better position financially ford found themselves in. COMMON man.....



But This above is what I'd love clarified as while I'm passionate about ford....I'm always up for new enlightenment on the facts.

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

SO????

I have a V8 and it is paid by my company and is also claimed on by tax? WTF are you on about? In fact I had 3 V8's at one stage ... now I have only 5 petrol and 2 diesel used for work.

If people are buying V8's and claiming through work and that is the reason why lots of V8's are being sold ...... big stiff! Your point is pointless.. I know a few with V8 Landcruisers used for work cars. I didn't know there was a specific type that you had to buy?

This thread is bordering on the ridiculous with some of the comments .......

Why should everyone pay for you to drive around in fancy v8's? This is not ridiculous this has been a long age argument for as long as I've been born!!

Honest question why do you need 7 cars? Do you run a crew/staff? If they're all for you I'm honestly stumped. I assume they're not of course. I wasn't really critiquing amount of cars just perks I'd say how many cars is irrelevant as you could need 200 depending on how big you are, as long as all they're needed and not there for tax gains I don't see a problem with it. But I don't get why they should be V8's though, unless they're arguably required for the job, any unessentials should come as an expense and not a deduction in my opinion.

When I learned it was possible under current legislations for my neighbours housewife to be "employed" as company director and "package" a holden grange by merely hanging clothes and sunbathing in the backyard pool drinking red wine until the sun sets it the gut wrenching possibility occurred to me that it's quite possible there's probably another3 of them in my street, and the next street and so on.

I never quite understood how it's appropriate to spend the nations wealth on little luxuries and perks. We can't afford it as a country and unfortunately a lot of people feel they don't have to pay their part, some people in particular seem to have a vendetta against tax and will die by the sword to claim anything possible and it's usually the ***** that buy them in fleets and companies like apple and google that are by far the worst offenders. This whole long age argument of kerry packers tax entitlement idealogy's are bs the numbers put what needs to be done about it in a clear perspective.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/count...125-1nz90.html

41.4 billion So basically if people just paid the tax they were meant to in the first place we'd be in surplus in 2yrs instead of allegedly 10yrs. Amazing

[pottery beige]

so much anger

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

Why should everyone pay for you to drive around in fancy v8's? This is not ridiculous this has been a long age argument for as long as I've been born!!

Honest question why do you need 7 cars? Do you run a crew/staff? If they're all for you I'm honestly stumped. I assume they're not of course. I wasn't really critiquing amount of cars just perks I'd say how many cars is irrelevant as you could need 200 depending on how big you are, as long as all they're needed and not there for tax gains I don't see a problem with it. But I don't get why they should be V8's though, unless they're arguably required for the job, any unessentials should come as an expense and not a deduction in my opinion.

When I learned it was possible under current legislations for my neighbours housewife to be "employed" as company director and "package" a holden grange by merely hanging clothes and sunbathing in the backyard pool drinking red wine until the sun sets it the gut wrenching possibility occurred to me that it's quite possible there's probably another3 of them in my street, and the next street and so on.

I never quite understood how it's appropriate to spend the nations wealth on little luxuries and perks. We can't afford it as a country and unfortunately a lot of people feel they don't have to pay their part, some people in particular seem to have a vendetta against tax and will die by the sword to claim anything possible and it's usually the ***** that buy them in fleets and companies like apple and google that are by far the worst offenders. This whole long age argument of kerry packers tax entitlement idealogy's are bs the numbers put what needs to be done about it in a clear perspective.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/count...125-1nz90.html

41.4 billion So basically if people just paid the tax they were meant to in the first place we'd be in surplus in 2yrs instead of allegedly 10yrs. Amazing

And why should those that earn their keep pay for those that sit at home and claim benefits.....ever seen the show Housos.

High income earner's already get slugged enough as it is for making a living supporting themselves and the welfare bludger's, if we took all the handout's back and made those that can work do a decent day's living then we would be in surplus well before your two year claim.

Typical tall poppy syndrome when it comes to those that think the wealth are rorting the system, if you knew the tax they get slugged then you would realise why they try to minimise their tax, just as much as you properly do when it comes time to do your tax..

Do you claim anything at tax time such as expenses from your place of work, anything like laundry to pens to travel...?

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

Why should everyone pay for you to drive around in fancy v8's? This is not ridiculous this has been a long age argument for as long as I've been born!!

Honest question why do you need 7 cars? Do you run a crew/staff? If they're all for you I'm honestly stumped. I assume they're not of course. I wasn't really critiquing amount of cars just perks I'd say how many cars is irrelevant as you could need 200 depending on how big you are, as long as all they're needed and not there for tax gains I don't see a problem with it. But I don't get why they should be V8's though, unless they're arguably required for the job, any unessentials should come as an expense and not a deduction in my opinion.

When I learned it was possible under current legislations for my neighbours housewife to be "employed" as company director and "package" a holden grange by merely hanging clothes and sunbathing in the backyard pool drinking red wine until the sun sets it the gut wrenching possibility occurred to me that it's quite possible there's probably another3 of them in my street, and the next street and so on.

I never quite understood how it's appropriate to spend the nations wealth on little luxuries and perks. We can't afford it as a country and unfortunately a lot of people feel they don't have to pay their part, some people in particular seem to have a vendetta against tax and will die by the sword to claim anything possible and it's usually the ***** that buy them in fleets and companies like apple and google that are by far the worst offenders. This whole long age argument of kerry packers tax entitlement idealogy's are bs the numbers put what needs to be done about it in a clear perspective.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/count...125-1nz90.html

41.4 billion So basically if people just paid the tax they were meant to in the first place we'd be in surplus in 2yrs instead of allegedly 10yrs. Amazing

WOW

Off with their heads.

You must have been severely traumatised as a child.

[Auslandau]

Some should just stop worrying about whats happening next door ........ gets you all tied up in knots with jealousy and leads to a very sad and sultry life.

Some also should investigate the way the tax system works including FBT and so forth. They should also give the ATO a little bit of credence on how they operate as loopholes etc are a myth. If someone is stupid enough to steal from the ATO ...... the ATO know before Mrs Jessop from next door would have any indication.

This topic got to here because someone uses a V8 instead of a Pirus for work? Bloody hell!

[johnydep]

I know that one day there will be no V8's, or for that matter, passenger car engines over 2.5L. Just look at how fast technology, engine and driveline technology has changed. Small capacity engines with Blowers and Turbos producing power and torque equivalent to engines twice their size. I read an article about nanotechnology experiment that resulted in 25% increase in electrical power from the exhaust system.

For now, modern day V8's can be very economical if drive right. Especially with cylinder deactivation.

My previous V8 ownership was in the late 80's to early 90's, when I could afford it. Then we decided to have children, make some investments, etc. So no V8's for quite a while.

Our business ute was purchased new in 1977, so it was way past time for a replacement. First thoughts was on another Ford, but as mentioned, my heart was set on a V8.

The ute expenses are claimed on our business, but everything that goes with it is a legitimate expense. It's also advertisement for the business, it has our name on the back, it also shows people that we are up to date with technology.

V8 or 6 it should not matter (yet), as long as we still have freedom of choice.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

If someone is stupid enough to steal from the ATO ...... the ATO know before Mrs Jessop from next door would have any indication.

I dunno, Apple and Google are doing a pretty grand job of hiding from the ATO:

Apple pays $193m tax in Australia on $27b revenue as Federal Government vows to capture lost taxes

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-0...evenue/5303426

GOOGLE has paid no tax on an estimated $940 million in web search advertising revenue generated locally, instead routing its Australian online ad sales through an Irish subsidiary, Google Ireland.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/tech...-1226345203723

Google Australia's tax bill has risen more than tenfold to $7.1 million.

Despite the big increase, following a political backlash against the Australian arm of the technology giant, the tax bill is only 15 per cent of its Australian profits, which don't count Google's lucrative search business.

Tax information shows that in 2013, Google Australia booked revenue of $357.7 million, up $90 million from $269 million.

Profit increased to $46.5 million, up from $22.4 million the year before.

Google Australia does not count revenues earned from its search business, which is estimated to generate between $1 to $1.5 billion each year in Australia. For tax purposes, Google's search business customers get billed in Singapore, not in Australia.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-e...501-37iq1.html

Out of that $7.1M in tax they paid (in the last example) they got $4.5M in grants from the Government.

Loopholes exist, the little business owners on here might be getting shafted by the ATO, but the ATO is getting shafted by the big multi-nationals.

USA is getting done over by their own companies and Amazon, Starbucks and Google are doing the same thing to the UK.

Kenya has a 10 year tax free incentive for any multi-national company which sets up in their country and employs natives, but the big companies are leaving after 10 years and moving on somewhere else.

ATO would be more likely to come down on you small business owners because you simply don't have the resources of a massive multi-national company to fight them all the way through court, even if you know you are in the wrong.

[Auslandau]

The main point that is missed was talking about companies here buying a V8 for use in their business and somehow being paid for by the tax payer in rorts and loopholes.

It is well documented what these multinationals can get up to and can shift profits off shore to do as they please ..... but has nothing to do with how people are buying V8's (as topic suggests) If they know of ways to do it legally, they are doing nothing wrong? Isn't it govco who has not set up the rules correctly to ensure taxes stay put? If they are doing it illegally, then they can be in the poo ..... which they are not ..... But that isn't the topic of the thread .....

Loopholes are a myth in Australian business in the true sense of the word. There are rules and regulations and its up to the accountant to work within these rules. If the rules are broken it then becomes illegal. If the rules allow someone to claim a V8 .... or whatever ..... where is this loophole if it is done within the rules?

If someone can buy a V8 and keep the industry ticking over ..... why not? Apart from someone getting jealous because they think everyone who has more than them got that way from being crooks?

Would love to see the figures if people could not buy Falcons and Commodores if they could not do so with their business.

[BHDOGS]

It would seem 1 in 3 commodores have working windscreen wipers due to there latest recall cant even use the right grease sheesh.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

It would seem 1 in 3 commodores have working windscreen wipers due to there latest recall cant even use the right grease sheesh.

Strange...I received a letter from Holden about the seat recall days before it was in the media or on this site. Haven't seen anything about windscreen wiper recall; what's your source?

Which part if the wiper blade does the correct grease go on?