Budget Night !!!!!!

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by Polyal

From what I have gathered, apparently its only now that the budget is healthy. Hence some spending and investment. You can only invest if you have cleared your debts and left room for unexpected things and liabilities.

You wont see "rewards" for atleast another 5-10 years.

In the mean time you get tax cuts, which have been happening for the last 5 odd years in a row! Thats money in your pocket, what you choose to do with that is up to you.

Also its very easy to critisise, but if everyone is a know it all then post up some viable options; what could have been done better?

wait a minute we the people are in more debt than ever. ???? and not likely to get out of it for a very long time . employment is less secure . skills are in high demand . and pays are being cut more than increased , and casual is becoming more common than full time . . i havent been affected yet . but it's coming !!!!!!

[Polyal]

Also I dont understand were the "the government owes us money, they have a surplus etc etc" comes from.

They owe you nothing, things could be alot worse than they are now, yes living is expensive; but its the same for everyone. Lifes what you make it, and speaking f which I have a metric buttload of uni work to get done.

I reckon if this site was ever to close there would be alot more productivity going on..LOL

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Also its very easy to critisise, but if everyone is a know it all then post up some viable options; what could have been done better?

Spot on Polyal.....

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

wait a minute we the people are in more debt than ever. ???? and not likely to get out of it for a very long time . employment is less secure . skills are in high demand . and pays are being cut more than increased , and casual is becoming more common than full time . . i havent been affected yet . but it's coming !!!!!!

Both my jobs are casual.

I get paid a good rate, I can come and go to work when I please. My casual job is as secure as a full time job as long as I am actually doing it.

Good workers are not sacked unless the company is in strife, and even then it doesn't matter how you are employed, everybody is on the chopping block. Such is life.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by Bluedriver

You have got to be kidding, the problem's above are perfect examples of wanting it now, 30g debt on cars they put before saving for the future !
Smart move by the above,no pity whatsoever.

As for the guys sister thats her choice what's wrong with that ?
and as for the ppl you work sounds like they have it all now, does mummy have dinner and breakky ready for them as well ?

when i was 18 i wanted my own life , my independence , to be able to bring home who i wanted , and eat what i like . without being told to mow the lawn . i thought that was a clear cut case of wanting it all .

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Both my jobs are casual.

I get paid a good rate, I can come and go to work when I please. My casual job is as secure as a full time job as long as I am actually doing it.

Good workers are not sacked unless the company is in strife, and even then it doesn't matter how you are employed, everybody is on the chopping block. Such is life.

ERRRR waht planet is that on ?????

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

ERRRR waht planet is that on ?????

I have no idea what you are talking about. If you feel that your job is in danger then I suggest you either work harder, or find something else. Both are the hard option, but its either that or be on the dole; choice is yours.

Im still yet to hear a reasonable idea that would make the budget so good. Even if there was a $100b surplus, you would still be taxed, the only difference would probably be more investment.

And if the budget was that large, then it was a result of spending and investing; which comes with expenses.

[Laminge]

Such an interesting path this one

[Polyal]

I can see Johnny playing his organ!

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by Laminge

Such an interesting path this one

I noted no re-bates on the Krispy Kremes in last nights budget..

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

I noted no re-bates on the Krispy Kremes in last nights budget..

American company, FTA

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Geez I must be going crazy.

I just watched Costello on ABC, I found it interesting......

Although the way in which he answered some of the questions was bordering on rude. He repeated himself over and over and basically gave high school kid answers back.

I find their subtle humour amusing too, damn being a pollie wouldn't be such a bad job.

That was a very good session of question time, was good to see detailed answers to the questions... even the ones coming from the opposition. Lol, get the feeling Pete is in a good mood today.

It's great to see that here on the forums and in the community in general, that political differences are put aside and this budget is receiving the praise which it deserves.

gtfpv, i fear you are running the risk of confusing conscious personal decisions and personal circumstances with "the way things are meant to be". As i eluded to earlier, you are taking your own observations, morals and beliefs and comparing this to what you see today.

Someone mentioned the $30k car. Brilliant example.

If i had played my cards better, id be in my own house and comfortably paying it off by now. But no, when i was younger i bought a bloody falcon and spent bucketloads of money hotting it up. Lol, now im finally recovering from my stupidity... and will be back to sqaure one in a few years and looking to buy a house. This is not the government's fault.

Suggestions that wages are being cut are contrary to the large volume of evidence out there.

The issues you raise are good ones but their resolve doesnt rest in the hands of govt. This is not a nanny state, no govt - left or right - can solve these problems for us. Its something the PEOPLE need to address. The socially dependent middle class being waited on hand and foot by the state died 11 years ago.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

That was a very good session of question time, was good to see detailed answers to the questions... even the ones coming from the opposition. Lol, get the feeling Pete is in a good mood today.

How good was his comeback (ive forgotten the question) about Rudd doing a dance and song on TV; very witty.

[gtfpv]

well it looks like i'm the only one here that thinks there was more oportunity and more chance to get ahead, with security and hard work, and actually done so , then there is today then .
i hope i am wrong . glad everyone is doing so well on thery're majority 47 g's of casual employment and there one day i'll own a 500k home out west then .
cheers . the people i see on tv getting sacked for not taking pay cuts and signing AWA'S . must all be a figment of my imagination.
this is the impression i get here .

[Laminge]

GTFPV

No thats the same impression I get, dont think the roses are worthwhile smelling while we are being lead down such a colorful path.

[Polyal]

Yeah there is no doubt that some sectors have been hit hard. But there is no single reason why this is so. Manufacturing is, from what I can tell, doing the worst. And that probably got more to do with developing countries doing the same job for less. Not much you can do about that.

No budget, or planning is going to fix every issue.

47k of causal employment; yeah right!

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

the people i see on tv getting sacked for not taking pay cuts and signing AWA'S . must all be a figment of my imagination.

No, thats the opinion that the TV network was trying to instill within you.

[GreenMachine]

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...rom=public_rss

Bet those guys are stoked about the extra $16 a week!

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by GreenMachine

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...rom=public_rss

Bet those guys are stoked about the extra $16 a week!

Its a fact of life that there is always going to be a section of the population that are the "battlers". $16 doesn't seem like alot, but add that up, INCLUDING all the previous tax cuts and threshold increases and it adds up.

Companies closing because of better competition or dodgey managers is nothing new.

[GreenMachine]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Its a fact of life that there is always going to be a section of the population that are the "battlers". $16 doesn't seem like alot, but add that up, INCLUDING all the previous tax cuts and threshold increases and it adds up.

Companies closing because of better competition or dodgey managers is nothing new.

Correct. There will always be battlers - mostly people who for whatever reason have not been able to get the education they need to sit down reading AFF for a living.

The issue here is scarcity. (I've been reading my Mrs's economics books) - People with law degrees and economists and fighter pilots and stuff are relatively rare, due to the hoops you have to jump through to get qualified, etc. Because of this, they are in demand to employers who need to sue people, do tricks with money or blow things up.

People who have the skills to monitor the widget-stamping machine or put pineapples in cans or clean toilets are everywhere, so their labour is not as scarce, and hence not in much demand. Because of this, their labour is worth bugger all.

So, just hypothetically, say market forces direct that Bob the Widget Watcher is worth $6.87 an hour.

Where does that leave Bob? Should there be a safety net to ensure that he can do cool stuff like eat and pay rent?

Here's one I'll throw out there: Without a word of a exaggeration, I would happily pay MORE tax than I do now if the money was (demonstrably) being put towards allowing people like Bob to get the education/training/leg-up/whatever they need to make their labour valuable.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by GreenMachine

Well, I got some tax-cut loving, about a pack of smokes a week. Would be pretty happy if I was a breeder too.

Still not going to convince me to vote for Howard.

Whys that, coz you want high country debt, a **** poor economy and interest rates of 17 %??


Im over the whole political debate and im sick of people whinging that they are hard done by, everyone has a choice, people have a choice to work when they are at school and gain a proper education, people have a choice to go to university. Lifes all about choices, some people will always blame the government, their parents or someone else because they aren't financially strong. Im not talking about battlers who work hard, manager their money well and try or people with specific dissabilities who are hard done by, im talking about the typical Australian who whinges because they have no money to buy a nice car or house yet smokes a packet of cigarettes a day and spends $250 a week on alcohol! These same people are usually the ones who think the worlds ****ed on them and thats why they have nothing.

To me there are 2 types of Australian, ones that are easily lead by Union movements and future job security. The others are those who look forward to buying a house of their own, and think about the long term viability of their futures..

Its an easy choice for me, Labor had this country that far up a tree in debt it was about to sink, its time people actually respected John Howard and his party for what hes done, especially for middleclass Australians who do try and also small businesses. Small Business Owners are probarly the winners at the moment, but these very same people are the ones who work 7 days a week, have very few holidays and have taken risks. Therefore they deserve to do well.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by GreenMachine

Correct. There will always be battlers - mostly people who for whatever reason have not been able to get the education they need to sit down reading AFF for a living.

The issue here is scarcity. (I've been reading my Mrs's economics books) - People with law degrees and economists and fighter pilots and stuff are relatively rare, due to the hoops you have to jump through to get qualified, etc. Because of this, they are in demand to employers who need to sue people, do tricks with money or blow things up.

People who have the skills to monitor the widget-stamping machine or put pineapples in cans or clean toilets are everywhere, so their labour is not as scarce, and hence not in much demand. Because of this, their labour is worth bugger all.

So, just hypothetically, say market forces direct that Bob the Widget Watcher is worth $6.87 an hour.

Where does that leave Bob? Should there be a safety net to ensure that he can do cool stuff like eat and pay rent?

Here's one I'll throw out there: Without a word of a exaggeration, I would happily pay MORE tax than I do now if the money was (demonstrably) being put towards allowing people like Bob to get the education/training/leg-up/whatever they need to make their labour valuable.

me too . poor bob . however some of the minority young married single income blokes i work with with babies . on thier meazly 90 +g's /yr . CANT AFFORD TO BUY A CAN OF PEPSI AT THE CANTEEN BECUASE THEY ARE 2 BUSY PAYING OFF THIER 400G MORTGAGES and need to repair there substandard 40 year houses and pay the kids bills including medical bills, whilst trying to keep there wife happy . these are the young ones today that are giving it a go. because they want it all.

[GreenMachine]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Its an easy choice for me, Labor had this country that far up a tree in debt it was about to sink, its time people actually respected John Howard and his party for what hes done, especially for middleclass Australians who do try and also small businesses.

Is it ok if I just respect his eyebrows?

I guess I'm just not middle-class enough!

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by GreenMachine

Correct. There will always be battlers - mostly people who for whatever reason have not been able to get the education they need to sit down reading AFF for a living.

The issue here is scarcity. (I've been reading my Mrs's economics books) - People with law degrees and economists and fighter pilots and stuff are relatively rare, due to the hoops you have to jump through to get qualified, etc. Because of this, they are in demand to employers who need to sue people, do tricks with money or blow things up.

People who have the skills to monitor the widget-stamping machine or put pineapples in cans or clean toilets are everywhere, so their labour is not as scarce, and hence not in much demand. Because of this, their labour is worth bugger all.

So, just hypothetically, say market forces direct that Bob the Widget Watcher is worth $6.87 an hour.

Where does that leave Bob? Should there be a safety net to ensure that he can do cool stuff like eat and pay rent?

Here's one I'll throw out there: Without a word of a exaggeration, I would happily pay MORE tax than I do now if the money was (demonstrably) being put towards allowing people like Bob to get the education/training/leg-up/whatever they need to make their labour valuable.

Theres plenty of education available to these people, but they dont show interest, because its too hard...

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by GreenMachine

Is it ok if I just respect his eyebrows?

I guess I'm just not middle-class enough!

Don't know, i think people have the wrong perceptions about a Howard government and employment. At the end of the day we still need workers, and people are getting harder to get across alot of different sectors (truck drivers for example).

I have some Truck Drivers working for us who are earning close to $2000 a week, and we all know how hard it is to drive a truck (just about anyone could do it).

These blokes are working legal hours to, so its not like they are busting their asses to make it.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by GreenMachine

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...rom=public_rss

Bet those guys are stoked about the extra $16 a week!

So we assume the Union is telling the truth and the employer telling fibs? Oh of course - thats the modern definition of egalitarianism isnt it

So, just hypothetically, say market forces direct that Bob the Widget Watcher is worth $6.87 an hour.

Where does that leave Bob? Should there be a safety net to ensure that he can do cool stuff like eat and pay rent?

Can of worms successfully opened! The question posed here is the litmus test of one's ideologies and the root of our two major parties. Hence... no comment from me.

Scarcity of resources can not be considered in abstraction from demand side factors. There was probably a time when Bob's job was in high demand, when there werent computers to monitor the Widget Maker. The scarcity of his skill has remained constant over time (actually, probably more scarce than ever before as others Widget Machine Supervisors went looking elsewhere)... the demand has disappeared.

Case in point - unskilled labour in the mining (and associated) industries. A lot of people are heading to the mining regions, no trade, no quals, no experience.... and earning a good wage. 10 fingers, 10 toes and a clean bill of health does not make for a scarce resource.

Once you've finished the Macroeconomics... have a read of some Microeconomics. Then see what you think we should do for bob.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Don't know, i think people have the wrong perceptions about a Howard government and employment. At the end of the day we still need workers, and people are getting harder to get across alot of different sectors (truck drivers for example).

I have some Truck Drivers working for us who are earning close to $2000 a week, and we all know how hard it is to drive a truck (just about anyone could do it).

These blokes are working legal hours to, so its not like they are busting their asses to make it.

take a look at a 40 year old truck driver . bad back, obese . most likely on the verge of marriage breakdown from atleast 2 interstate return trips a week . 16 hour days . i know a few . stop pulling the wool boy. the amount of drugs they take they could probably get a walk up start at a pharmacy. the only thing you are right about here is the moneyu they are on . in some cases more .

[GreenMachine]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Once you've finished the Macroeconomics... have a read of some Microeconomics. Then see what you think we should do for bob.

Bugger it mate - The ACTU only lets me read one book a year!

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

take a look at a 40 year old truck driver . bad back, obese . most likely on the verge of marriage breakdown from atleast 2 interstate return trips a week . 16 hour days . i know a few . stop pulling the wool boy. the amount of drugs they take they could probably get a walk up start at a pharmacy. the only thing you are right about here is the moneyu they are on . in some cases more .

Thats your perception tho, based on what you see on tv and in the media.

Our drivers are all legal hours, no drugs and home every second night, and most of them are skinny from smoking

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by GreenMachine

So, just hypothetically, say market forces direct that Bob the Widget Watcher is worth $6.87 an hour.

Where does that leave Bob? Should there be a safety net to ensure that he can do cool stuff like eat and pay rent?

Whats strange about that comment is that from my experience (being a uni "bum" and working casual jobs and spending so much time on AFF) is that the laboring jobs pay pretty damn well.

Yeah its crap and hard work, but its out there. Ive got two jobs, one is awesome but its not a career path, and the other is just crap laboring in a factory moving stock. Any monkey could do it, and some do!

Why do I do it? Because I want more just like FPVGT says...............