8 year old girl found dead in toilet - Page 3

DJL351 · 27-06-2006, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

"About" 0%? If you cant guarantee 0% then you're effectively sanctioning the murder of innocent people.

Im not sure if you saw the other link but in the USA, they've had 4 cases over a period of 19 months where new/revised facts have been brought to the table.

Yes - innocent people can be locked up, but there's the chance that, if facts are brought to light which clear this person's name - there is hope of undoing the injustice which has been done.

Death is the one thing in this world which is truly permanent and you want to hand it out in the absence of reasonable doubt?

That is why they are not put to death the day after they are convicted.
The processes are in place, the same as if you are sentanced to life.

DJL351 · 27-06-2006, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiery

There are arguments for and against the Death Penalty...
But I really don't believe this is a place for it to be discussed.. not within this thread anyway.

Ah... as only a female can.... calming influence.

I for one, hope the family see justice. (in their eyes)

4.9 EF Futura, XRchic & biomechanic, I understand what you are saying and where you are coming from.
I too felt that a life was worth keeping at all costs.
But now, in this current world and the world I will leave for my childern,
more needs to be done to rid us of seeing and/or reading of things like this everyday.

D

4.9 EF Futura · 27-06-2006, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJL351

That is why they are not put to death the day after they are convicted.
The processes are in place, the same as if you are sentanced to life.

Since 1992 the US has exonerated one perseon per year. Unfortunately its somewhat cold comfort for the families of those wrongly convicted when the death sentence has already been carried out.

In the late 90's, England's Court of Appeal quashed a series of convctions from the early 50's. Again, unfortunate that innocence was established 40 years after the men had been put to death.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJL351

for one, hope the family see justice. (in their eyes)

Here, here.

Walkinshaw · 27-06-2006, 02:53 PM

Justice is a completly diffrent process from revenge. That is not to say that both should not be satisfied. As has been said above Death is a very serious consiquence and the only one that can't be reversed. I'm not going to speak with regards to the Justice side of things (death penalty etc etc) however I will speak on the side of the revenge.

Revenge is a human emotion that would run VERY deep in people affected by crimes such as this. Justice/The final sentance/punishment for somone convicted of such crimes should NOT be in the hands of people directly effected by the crime at hand. However revenge is something that is rarely achieved.

May sound brutal, un-cultured and barbaric (but if you in any way shape or form believe that forfilling revenge is not a natural and acceptable emotion, because it doesnt fit our cultured society, you are very narrow minded) but the old "10minutes with the bat" routine is something which i whole hartedly agree with. Give the affected family something back. Justice is not justice for the family in these situations, Justice is designed for the wider community.

Walkinshaw · 27-06-2006, 02:53 PM

Oh and some of the tree hugging hippies on OCAU are great for commic value. Bunch of clowns.

Walkinshaw · 27-06-2006, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Since 1992 the US has exonerated one perseon per year. Unfortunately its somewhat cold comfort for the families of those wrongly convicted when the death sentence has already been carried out.

Comes back to the comment, How many lives were protected by undertaking these acts? Well if they are truly imprisioned for LIFE then 0 were saved by removing these people. As above, I'm not going to debate pro life/pro capital senarios, only to point out, since 1992 (14yrs, 14people) is 14 innocent deaths a fair price to pay to provide ANY deterent to future crime commiters.

People say you need to remove emotion from such debates, you could argue to take this to the Nth degree, life and people need to be looked at soly as numbers. They only need to have stopped 14 possable deaths to "break even".

DJL351 · 27-06-2006, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Since 1992 the US has exonerated one perseon per year. Unfortunately its somewhat cold comfort for the families of those wrongly convicted when the death sentence has already been carried out.

In the late 90's, England's Court of Appeal quashed a series of convctions from the early 50's. Again, unfortunate that innocence was established 40 years after the men had been put to death.

From the 1950's.... wow. Good thing we're in 2006 and have better ways of finding the right person the first time.

Redrum · 27-06-2006, 03:07 PM

To hear about the loss of life is saddening, but to hear the loss of a child is tragic and heartbraking...........

xbcool · 27-06-2006, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiery

There are arguments for and against the Death Penalty...

But I really don't believe this is a place for it to be discussed.. not within this thread anyway.

This is about a family that has been tragically destroyed due to one person's actions.

Abacus while I can understand what you are saying and in part agree, I really think you need to take a deep breath and let all evidence be produced prior to getting the injection, noose, chair fired up and ready.... He sexually assaulted the girl, this we know... SO there must be DNA somewhere..

Let the evidence be produced first. Then try to discuss rationally.

I totally agree give him his day in court but surely DNA will see him convicted!

4.9 EF Futura · 27-06-2006, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJL351

From the 1950's.... wow. Good thing we're in 2006 and have better ways of finding the right person the first time.

Most of the "classic" wrongful execution cases cited were found to be a result of racism or prejudice on behalf of the judge/jury. Evidence and testimony was not properly considered in the trials. All the DNA testing in the world would have changed very little.

Good thing that in 2006, racism and prejudice are a thing of the past. Cough.

superpursuit83 · 27-06-2006, 03:17 PM

This is an absolute tragic event, and he should be beaten and fixed and beaten again over and over.

The Shopping centre is our local one and I get sick thinking about it. I am often there with my daughter, who is old enough now (13) to go off alone and she often uses the toilets mentioned.
Now how do I let her go to the movies this weekend on her own without worrying myself to death.
I can only imagine what it must be like for the family of this young girl.

If anyone knows the parents please reassure them that the whole of Australia feels for them. What else can you say

turboute · 27-06-2006, 03:19 PM

I dont know the exact statistics on how many pedophiles re-offend after coming out of prison -but it is a stupidly high number - near 90% if memory serves me well. The Question is - If this guy is found guilty beyond a doubt (ie DNA evidence) will releasing him in 25 years be a good thing for society? I doubt it. So he should be excluded from society FOR EVER. He has already taken enough from it.

Also as a side issue Our prisons are too 'nice' why cant we have bali hell holes? Make jail be a punishment. Anyone see Count of Monte Cristo(sp?) on the other night - we need jails like that. Teach people a real lesson. Also cost less to run.

Ryan · 27-06-2006, 03:22 PM

What type of sick c***, does that to a child?

I hope the f***er gets put away, for a very long time.

gtfpv · 27-06-2006, 03:22 PM

this is heart wrenchiung and horrible . one cant help get angry to their bones .
i hope he suffers for what he has done . i hope the system destroys this guy.
i think people who do this deserve both arms amputated then thrown in jail to think about it for the rest of their life .

xr8man83 · 27-06-2006, 03:23 PM

poor family thats horrible

DJL351 · 27-06-2006, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Most of the "classic" wrongful execution cases cited were found to be a result of racism or prejudice on behalf of the judge/jury. Evidence and testimony was not properly considered in the trials. All the DNA testing in the world would have changed very little.

Good thing that in 2006, racism and prejudice are a thing of the past. Cough.

So what you are really saying is there is an issue with the justice system....
Could not agree more!

jimt3te50 · 27-06-2006, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superpursuit83

This is an absolute tragic event, and he should be beaten and fixed and beaten again over and over.

The Shopping centre is our local one and I get sick thinking about it. I am often there with my daughter, who is old enough now (13) to go off alone and she often uses the toilets mentioned.
Now how do I let her go to the movies this weekend on her own without worrying myself to death.
I can only imagine what it must be like for the family of this young girl.

If anyone knows the parents please reassure them that the whole of Australia feels for them. What else can you say

I can relate to this John- my wife and boy were there yesterday around the time this happened and had no idea until this morning- it's a frightening reality being so close to home- it's our regular shopping centre too and is just a two minute walk away........

It's scary that it was a local too- makes you wonder how many times you've seen him around or how many times he's driven past you're house when no-one but your wife and kids were home. That frightens the crap out of me.......

I still can't get over what is happening in this world in this day and age- how this can't make anyone feel physically sick is beyond me.

This is such a tragic act and I couldn't feel any more sorry for her or her poor family.

27-06-2006, 03:39 PM

not that I have been to jail, or anything illegal, I have meet people that have been in. And most will never talk about it, and if/when they do, beleive me what they do to guys that abuse/murder children is fair. if/when he gets caught, the in-side boys will make sure he remembers his crime.

very sad to hear about..

Miss_XR6 · 27-06-2006, 03:41 PM

hopefully the person who did this to an innocent 8 year old girl will pay his/her time.... what goes around comes around 10 times harder

XRchic · 27-06-2006, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turboute

I dont know the exact statistics on how many pedophiles re-offend after coming out of prison -but it is a stupidly high number - near 90% if memory serves me well. The Question is - If this guy is found guilty beyond a doubt (ie DNA evidence) will releasing him in 25 years be a good thing for society? I doubt it. So he should be excluded from society FOR EVER. He has already taken enough from it.

Also as a side issue Our prisons are too 'nice' why cant we have bali hell holes? Make jail be a punishment. Anyone see Count of Monte Cristo(sp?) on the other night - we need jails like that. Teach people a real lesson. Also cost less to run.

On a personal level, I dont disagree with that post at all! I hope the guy is never released into society again, ever.

I feel so much for the family of the girl though, as I could not even imagine the pain if something like that happened to our family. I just do not think I could cope with it and I dont think I would ever get over it. It is every parent's worst nightmare I think.

I will probably be flamed for saying it, but I also do feel somewhat towards the family of the bloke who did this. Imagine finding out the child you loved has done this to a child in this way? I would be devastated if my son did something like that. Its as good as losing a child. I know they may or may not be partially responsible for how he turned out and what he did, but at the end of the day, every murderer, rapist, serial killer etc has parents and probably siblings and people who loved him/her.... I am just saying I would hate to be this guy's family too.

ShallowCrossing · 27-06-2006, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muppet

The laws in this country regarding pedophiles are a joke.Little kids are cross examined by the defence and are often to scared to be able to give any evedence. The child should only have to make one video statement that is then used in court. As a result most pedophile cases that make it to court are found not guilty and are let of . Any past cases are not taken into account and as a result these people(if you can call them that) are continually let of. Ther are to many people in powerful positions that are pedophiles or protect them. We need better laws so that these people are taken out of society for good before they graduate to murder as well.

Where oh where are you getting this information from?? Anecdotal? Pub talk? Every state in Australia has laws where the child can give evidence via remote link or through the use of VATE (Video and Audio Taped Interview). Prior convictions, as in most trials, cannot be alleged until the accused is found guilty, otherwise the defence can argue prejudice. People in powerful positions that are pedophiles? I assume you are just making that up. If you actually go and sit in a court sometime, you will quickly learn that evidence is required.

I agree this death is incredibly tragic, but let's at least have some information that is based on fact.

As for the post that said "this kind of stuff is happening all over the country", well, thankfully it's not.

ED Classic · 27-06-2006, 03:45 PM

They have just arrested a 21 year old. He will certainly need protection inside if he get found guilty. Not that hed deserve it.

For murder its debatable whether someone should get released or not {self defence etc} but for something this cold no one should ever be released ever.

DailyDriver · 27-06-2006, 03:49 PM

With todays technology, any DNA from the victim should be sufficient for a trial and then if he's found guilty, hang him by his nads......

I have 3 girls under the age of 6, when I heard this story I almost cried....if this were to happen to one of them, I would turn this world upside down to find & punish the pr*ck.

XRchic · 27-06-2006, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ED Classic

For murder its debatable whether someone should get released or not {self defence etc} but for something this cold no one should ever be released ever.

It cannot be murder with self defence. Self defence is an absolute defence to murder. There are also other crimes which relate to the death of someone which is not murder, such as manslaughter of various kinds (reckless, etc) where the intentions and actions of the crime are not the same as murder but a death is still caused. Is this what you mean?

But for true murder of another person, that person should never be released? Yes, I agree with that.

superpursuit83 · 27-06-2006, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRchic

On a personal level, I dont disagree with that post at all! I hope the guy is never released into society again, ever.

I feel so much for the family of the girl though, as I could not even imagine the pain if something like that happened to our family. I just do not think I could cope with it and I dont think I would ever get over it. It is every parent's worst nightmare I think.

I will probably be flamed for saying it, but I also do feel somewhat towards the family of the bloke who did this. Imagine finding out the child you loved has done this to a child in this way? I would be devastated if my son did something like that. Its as good as losing a child. I know they may or may not be partially responsible for how he turned out and what he did, but at the end of the day, every murderer, rapist, serial killer etc has parents and probably siblings and people who loved him/her.... I am just saying I would hate to be this guy's family too.

No flaming from me, I agree it must be hard for the other family too, what would they be going through? Canningvale is a nice area with respectable people and very nice homes.
I just dont understand the violence in the world today

XRchic · 27-06-2006, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DailyDriver

With todays technology, any DNA from the victim should be sufficient for a trial and then if he's found guilty, hang him by his nads......

I have 3 girls under the age of 6, when I heard this story I almost cried....if this were to happen to one of them, I would turn this world upside down to find & punish the pr*ck.

Im afraid that DNA evidence alone is not enough to convict someone or necessarily send to trial, it is not that straight forward. Just because someones DNA is found somewhere does not mean that the required intentions and actions were actually committed. Same as fingerprint evidence... its not absolute but must be looked at in conjunction with other evidence. Often it is very convincing evidence though and DNA has enabled many crimes to be investigated and solved which otherwise could not have been. In many cases is can very nearly be conclusive though.

Aussie_Geo · 27-06-2006, 03:58 PM

Yes I have read what everyone is saying.... and Jim, John what a ***** to see it in your "back yard"..... I dont know what the answer is..... but to quote a labour man I had a lot of time for "Barry Jones".... I have yet to see an executed murderer re-offending

Peter

fiery · 27-06-2006, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superpursuit83

No flaming from me, I agree it must be hard for the other family too, what would they be going through? Canningvale is a nice area with respectable people and very nice homes.
I just dont understand the violence in the world today

I agree also.
I do too sincerely feel for the family of the person charged.

You can almost be guaranteed that the media have already started hounding them and if they haven't yet, they sure soon will....

ED Classic · 27-06-2006, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRchic

It cannot be murder with self defence. Self defence is an absolute defence to murder. There are also other crimes which relate to the death of someone which is not murder, such as manslaughter of various kinds (reckless, etc) where the intentions and actions of the crime are not the same as murder but a death is still caused. Is this what you mean?

But for true murder of another person, that person should never be released? Yes, I agree with that.

What I mean is if I was walking down the street and you stabbed me for no reason and as you were walking off I picked the knife up and ran and stabbed you in the back and it killed you I may get found guilty and self defence would not be excepted because you were walking away and not still attacking me so I would probly be found guilty. Do you think that I should get the exact same term as if it were pre meditated and that I wanted to just go and kill someone for no reason? Judges do have a very important job is my answer.

turboute · 27-06-2006, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRchic

Im afraid that DNA evidence alone is not enough to convict someone or necessarily send to trial, it is not that straight forward. Just because someones DNA is found somewhere does not mean that the required intentions and actions were actually committed. Same as fingerprint evidence... its not absolute but must be looked at in conjunction with other evidence. Often it is very convincing evidence though and DNA has enabled many crimes to be investigated and solved which otherwise could not have been. In many cases is can very nearly be conclusive though.

I agree, it depends where it is found...

In this case I think it will be a bit too obvious given the charges and what has most likely happenned.