Are we Witnessing the Last Years of Ford Australia? - Page 3

Sprintey · 14-01-2025, 09:38 PM

Reviews of Arcadia were similar, spinning a wheel on takeoff in the wet in the 2wd model. Otherwise packaging of that car was pretty good.

**kypez** · 14-01-2025, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Reviews of Arcadia were similar, spinning a wheel on takeoff in the wet in the 2wd model. Otherwise packaging of that car was pretty good.

Given how well the Kia carnival is doing with a similar layout, I don't think many (or most) people care which wheels play primary. Don't think it's the only reason it didn't do well.

Franco Cozzo · 14-01-2025, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

Explorer, I'll give you that. Maverick might eat into Ranger so whilst it sells, would it open the doors to new customers?

Also, would they build them in Thailand or do the $20k premium LHD to RHD conversions?

I'd love an Expedition for the record.

Maverick is targeted at different customer base, check out the difference in the marketing between the USDM Ranger and the Maverick on Ford USA's website.

Basically the Parkrun/lifestyle crew is the target market for the Maverick, I reckon the Maverick would steal some RAV4 sales.

**kypez** · 14-01-2025, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Maverick is targeted at different customer base, check out the difference in the marketing between the USDM Ranger and the Maverick on Ford USA's website.

Basically the Parkrun/lifestyle crew is the target market for the Maverick, I reckon the Maverick would steal some RAV4 sales.

I don't think anything will take away RAV4 sales!

Yes, in the US, you're right about the segmentation but I'm wondering if that would translate here. But with the price difference for LHD to RHD conversions (I doubt they'd setup a new line for it), would it be worth it?

Franco Cozzo · 14-01-2025, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

I don't think anything will take away RAV4 sales!

Yes, in the US, you're right about the segmentation but I'm wondering if that would translate here. But with the price difference for LHD to RHD conversions (I doubt they'd setup a new line for it), would it be worth it?

I reckon it would, there's a lot of people who would love a nice soft ute like the Maverick, that doesn't sound like a rusty milo tin full of nails when it starts and drives, the moment you go fill it up your hand ends up covered in diesel, or is associated with the flogs in the hi-vis vest that pilot Rangers who drive like absolute ****wits on the roads.

Surfing/hikers/campers/runners/cyclists, the inner suburban crowd, or 30-something women who are sensitive about being associated with the Ranger and its image, there's crossover there with the RAV4 customer.

Its also based on the Focus platform I think, so it wont stop or steer like a ****ing bus. It just needs to be quiet, drive nicely and be able to fit camping gear/surf board on it and move the odd friends couch.

Its not aimed at a traditional 'ute' customer like the Ranger, its a different customer.

I think next generation is planned for RHD, of course Australia misses out on an opportunity to be first to market in this segment.

Crazy Dazz · 15-01-2025, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

China is also very strict with emissions which is why they're pushing EVs to reduce their emissions.

ROFLMFAO
Ever been to China? The pollution is so thick it burns ya eyes. We had to use the safety glasses with the foam inserts, and wore masks all the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

Indian Cars over 15 years old have to get a special check done to extend their road life

You misspelled cheque, and anyway they usually take their bribes in cash.

lra · 15-01-2025, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprintey

That's the hard bit - GM failed on the Arcadia, but it was wrong-wheel drive and too big for wrong wheel drive. Explorer, especially ST is a much better car.

Looked at an Arcadia, either at Bathurst or another Supercars event, prior to its release, can't remember, wasn't that important.
Arcadia vs Territory SY2 Ghia .......... tell 'em they're dreaming'.

**kypez** · 15-01-2025, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

ROFLMFAO

Ever been to China? The pollution is so thick it burns ya eyes. We had to use the safety glasses with the foam inserts, and wore masks all the time.

You misspelled cheque, and anyway they usually take their bribes in cash.

Yes, I've been to China. Takes time to clean things up. Just like LA had terrible air quality that is much better these days.

And no, you can't just bribe people with the emissions stuff in India. Again, first hand knowledge not your stereotyping.

**FTE217** · 15-01-2025, 10:33 AM

Is China still heavily polluted?
Though some progress has been made, air pollution remains at an alarming rate in China, and affects economies and people's quality of life. Air pollution is responsible for about 2 million deaths in China per year
https://www.who.int/china/health-topics/air-pollution

https://www.iqair.com/au/china?srslt...c0E4d7YVSZmEog

**kypez** · 15-01-2025, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTE217

Is China still heavily polluted?
Though some progress has been made, air pollution remains at an alarming rate in China, and affects economies and people's quality of life. Air pollution is responsible for about 2 million deaths in China per year
https://www.who.int/china/health-topics/air-pollution

https://www.iqair.com/au/china?srslt...c0E4d7YVSZmEog

As I mentioned, it took decades to clean up LA. Introducing new emissions standards doesn't affect existing cars on the road and there is a long tail.

Just like we are driving cars that aren't Euro5 to this day.

With 1.4 billion people, the tail will be very Long but it doesn't mean they haven't started implementing the standards.

barra240t · 15-01-2025, 11:30 AM

Think your title reflects upon every legacy brand in the country, they are all under enormous threat from a waking beast. I think Toyota are really the only safe one from the onslaught, however, will cop a fair dip in market share in the future.

kevino · 15-01-2025, 12:51 PM

Barra
Is there any inkling that Ford might add some low emission cars suvs back from Europe once the new fuel standard comes in to suit euro6

I read today in Holland Ford sell Phev Escapes which we once had access too and a three cyl 1.5 ecoboost six speed manual Escape
That Escape is something with the three and manual that I would buy- sadly be the only buyer in the country probably. But manuals are a great anti theft device

uranium_death · 15-01-2025, 02:46 PM

2007 - all eggs in the Falcon platform. Platform fell out of favour. Ford's future uncertain.
Today - Ranger platform accounts for ~90% of sales in Australia. One bad model/something else comes along, Ford is in trouble.

Given how reactive businesses can be, Ford need to always get things right to remain in Australia long-term, and we know it won't always be cherries.

Ford is safe now, but with each new Ranger platform, there's always a risk that for whatever reason the Ranger's profile will change. It happened to the Falcodore. It can happen to any vehicle.

Mazda and Toyota are the only two makes that I would consider absolutely safe beyond doubt at this point in time. They also have vehicles that sell in all major segments - contrary to Ford's strategy.

**kypez** · 15-01-2025, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uranium_death

Ford is safe now, but with each new Ranger platform, there's always a risk that for whatever reason the Ranger's profile will change. It happened to the Falcodore. It can happen to any vehicle.

.

Probably why Ford are playing it safe with the platform and just building on it rather than putting out a totally new platform.

barra240t · 15-01-2025, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevino

Barra
Is there any inkling that Ford might add some low emission cars suvs back from Europe once the new fuel standard comes in to suit euro6

I read today in Holland Ford sell Phev Escapes which we once had access too and a three cyl 1.5 ecoboost six speed manual Escape
That Escape is something with the three and manual that I would buy- sadly be the only buyer in the country probably. But manuals are a great anti theft device

You have to think China/India more so than Europe, but we will see!

**FTE217** · 15-01-2025, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

As I mentioned, it took decades to clean up LA. Introducing new emissions standards doesn't affect existing cars on the road and there is a long tail.

Just like we are driving cars that aren't Euro5 to this day.

With 1.4 billion people, the tail will be very Long but it doesn't mean they haven't started implementing the standards.

I know both as well as you but LA has nothing compared to China in Industry and expanse.
Tt took 2 decades to help reduce/improve LA's air quality.
Not a good comparo thats all.

We're a piffle prob in the big picture, absolute piffle.

Franco Cozzo · 15-01-2025, 04:42 PM

You can see how much smog has reduced in Melbourne over the decades by looking at the skyline from a suburb like Sunbury

As a kid in the late 1990s, you could see a brown haze hanging around Melbourne CBD skyline from the hill out of Sunbury heading towards Riddells Creek, you get a wicked view of the city skyline in the distance as you're about to enter into Sunbury.

Melbourne has an extra two million people these days and you don't get that nasty brown haze hanging around the city skyline anymore.

It's a local environmental improvement you can see with your own eyes, there's a lot more cars and trucks on the roads now then there was in 1999.

What about when we banned asbestos in 1985 for construction, or removed lead from fuel around the same time?

Asbestos is one of the best construction materials ever, so many uses its like the wonder material.

I'm happy with Euro V, I wonder what the return is on Euro 6d,

jpd80 · 15-01-2025, 04:58 PM

Why go to Euro6d, why not trail the rest of the world like we always have done
And just roll to the first version of Euro 6. That would at least make companies
ensure that emission equipment is maintained and compliant up to 160,000 km.

**kypez** · 15-01-2025, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTE217

I know both as well as you but LA has nothing compared to China in Industry and expanse.

Tt took 2 decades to help reduce/improve LA's air quality.

Not a good comparo thats all.

We're a piffle prob in the big picture, absolute piffle.

After visiting China (metros and outside of them) and LA vs outside of the city, you start to see the impact of pollution is firstly local to a large extent. I remember seeing the night sky clear in Sydney as a kid. Sure, light pollution has increased but the quality of the air has reduced massively as well.

Do we wait till our city's air quality is as bad as Chinese cities or LA before we think it's time to clean it up?

Personally, I put the blame on Ranger and diesel dual cab utes. They've exploded on to the scene and the AQI has suffered for it.

Franco Cozzo · 15-01-2025, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

Personally, I put the blame on Ranger and diesel dual cab utes. They've exploded on to the scene and the AQI has suffered for it.

Yep, there's literally no reason for modern vehicle you can drive on a car licence needing a diesel engine, anything 4500KG GVM/8000KG GCM can easily be done by unleaded engines.

You cop a little bit of a fuel economy penalty but you gain reliability and cheaper service and repair costs.

About to do the fuel injectors and high pressure fuel pump on my 1.6L Ecoboost as a precautionary measure as it's got over 250,000km on the clock now.

It's got high pressure direct injection fuel system and it was only about $2500 all up in parts for a full set of injectors, the seals, new clips, new fuel pipe, new high pressure fuel pump and the low pressure fuel pump module in the tank, all genuine Ford.

Diesel injectors are around a thousand bucks each alone and a couple thousand bucks for the injection pump.

Then because most people don't use diesel engines properly they shit up all their expensive emissions gear.

**kypez** · 15-01-2025, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Yep, there's literally no reason for modern vehicle you can drive on a car licence needing a diesel engine, anything 4500KG GVM/8000KG GCM can easily be done by unleaded engines.

You cop a little bit of a fuel economy penalty but you gain reliability and cheaper service and repair costs.

About to do the fuel injectors and high pressure fuel pump on my 1.6L Ecoboost as a precautionary measure

It's got high pressure direct injection fuel system and it was only about $2500 all up in parts for a full set of injectors, the seals, new clips, new fuel pipe, new high pressure fuel pump and the low pressure fuel pump module in the tank.

Diesel injectors are around a thousand bucks each alone and a couple thousand bucks for the injection pump.

Then because most people don't use diesel engines properly they shit up all their expensive emissions gear.

It's no accident that the rise of dual cab utes coincides with the decline of air quality in Australian cities.

I was horrified when I saw the price of replacement injectors on the Everest! Sold it before I had to do them. Then the EGR and other emissions gear. Bugger that. Just give me a petrol engine everyday.

Just look how lousy the features of the Everest/Ranger is compared to the Chinese cars coming in. The basic versions of the latter have memory seats, mirrors and steering column. Even the platinum versions of the Everest and Ranger have manual steerings.

We cancelled the Raptor order when I realised it didn't have memory seats and mirrors. Big height difference between the missus and I and it was a deal breaker.

Sprintey · 15-01-2025, 05:35 PM

Sydney is interesting, just read the wiki on the city and air quality is a problem, does the Sydney basin area trap the particulates in, a bit like Launceston does?

**kypez** · 15-01-2025, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Sydney is interesting, just read the wiki on the city and air quality is a problem, does the Sydney basin area trap the particulates in, a bit like Launceston does?

Not sure but the air quality is getting worse every year. You see fewer stars in the night sky these days and there is always a haze over the city skyline.

It desperately needs strict emissions standards before we end up like LA or similar.

simon varley · 15-01-2025, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Why go to Euro6d, why not trail the rest of the world like we always have done
And just roll to the first version of Euro 6. That would at least make companies
ensure that emission equipment is maintained and compliant up to 160,000 km.

6d means we can pick up the latest UK cars. Or, at least, if we scrap pointless ADRs we could.

Sprintey · 15-01-2025, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

Not sure but the air quality is getting worse every year. You see fewer stars in the night sky these days and there is always a haze over the city skyline.

It desperately needs strict emissions standards before we end up like LA or similar.

How much of it is still bushland/farmland compared to when you were a kid? I'm thinking in the western half of the basin. Only been there via the toll roads, and once working Parramatta in 44 degree heat, which was an oven. Is is substantially lessened in greenery?

**kypez** · 15-01-2025, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprintey

How much of it is still bushland/farmland compared to when you were a kid? I'm thinking in the western half of the basin. Only been there via the toll roads, and once working Parramatta in 44 degree heat, which was an oven. Is is substantially lessened in greenery?

Absolutely reduced. We were driving to Blacktown near Parklea and memorial drive used to be trees and land. Now every last square metre is built up.

Some of the new built up areas like Marsden Park weren't thick bushland though. Grasslands but not trees. All those areas are built up now with a dual cab ute in almost every second driveway.

The floodplains have been used for housing here which is why when there are big rains, people usually get a nice water feature in their living room.

The worst bushland (and koala habitat) clearing I've seen was in Coomera on the Gold Coast. Haven't seen anything that bad in Sydney yet.

kevino · 15-01-2025, 06:15 PM

On that Coomera clearing
I live on the Gc but up to 2021 worked in Bris from 2007
One day I was driving a commercial vehicle north back to Bris depot about4 pm and a poor little koala was walking southbound in the breakdown lane poor bugger
This was on the M1 a four lane each way motorway 110 km hr speed limit main arterial Gc/Bris

Sprintey · 15-01-2025, 08:21 PM

A bit off topic but anyway

Look at the difference mature trees can make in Western Sydney:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-...cover/11721698

https://www.9news.com.au/national/la...d-44b400787367

temperature differences are huge!

Lots of farmland down here becoming new housing developments. Some have been designed keeping parts of trees/wetlands, but they are building on some of the most productive basalts soils...

Anyway I hope they just plant so many trees in Sydney's west so it's more like Galloway St North Parramatta in the ABC link!

jpd80 · 16-01-2025, 07:32 AM

No doubt things are changing all around us and it’s no longer the twenty teens,
I have no doubt that eventually, diesel Utes and diesel SUVs will become harder to sell
as regulations and taxes take their toll. I just hope that the right decisions are being made.

Life has taught me that when the government talks about change for the better,
that normally means we end up paying more for everything.

au2000 · 16-01-2025, 09:23 AM

I’ve thought for awhile that ford’s current strategy of now becoming the ranger car company will eventually bite them in the *** much the same as many criticised the falcon car company strategy.

The new regs and focus on big ticket prices on ranger was always a short sighted plan given the lack of supporting products. I’m sure these new BYDs will take a share of the market and definitely suit the need for some wild track buyers especially the posers who don’t really need a 4x4 but like the looks of one.

For me, my next purchase will be some sort of mid size suv for my wife so ford won’t even be a consideration and I’m sure many others ie those buying rav4,s are in a similar boat.