Vfacts For December - Page 2

Smoke Pursuit · 07-01-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

What they wont take one sitting in the yard??

There are none sitting in the yard, thats the drama. Ford built no cars in Nov / Dec for stock really, most were all customer order.

:

**Polyal** · 07-01-2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

Its not working for Ford atm... People wont wait 8 weeks for an XR8 ute when they can go buy an SS and pick it up tomorrow...

8 weeks is unacceptable, but a slight delay would be ok if you are optioning something out of the normal.

3/4 weeks max is fair IMO. Pretty big purchase to be changing your mind purely because of delivery. Although in a commercial sense you might need it then and there.

imugli · 07-01-2009, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

Its not working for Ford atm... People wont wait 8 weeks for an XR8 ute when they can go buy an SS and pick it up tomorrow...

I don't have numbers (obviously) but I'd argue that it's doing better for Ford than throwing $27,000,000+ per month down the drain is for Holden...

And WTF is this doing for dunnydore resales?

flappist · 07-01-2009, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

Its not working for Ford atm... People wont wait 8 weeks for an XR8 ute when they can go buy an SS and pick it up tomorrow...

I wonder if this is all part of the "I WANT IN NOW NOW NOW" culture that is rife among the younger buyers.

I waited about 8 weeks for my 350Z and several months for my GT-P.

If you really want an XR8 and you cannot wait 8 weeks then you don't really want it do you.......

Scott · 07-01-2009, 02:42 PM

I doubt they took a loss.

If the cars are built and sitting around, they are simply cash that needs to be liquidated. The longer they sit, the less they are worth.

4Vman · 07-01-2009, 02:47 PM

I can't see why an 8 week wait be an issue?? MTO has never been much better than that anyway, unless its an impulse purchase and you're not fussed about brand or model.
Buy euro and its closer to 6 months MTO...
If discounting below cost is selling cars for Holden then that puts them in a worse position than selling none.

Smoke Pursuit · 07-01-2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I can't see why an 8 week wait be an issue?? MTO has never been much better than that anyway, unless its an impulse purchase and you're not fussed about brand or model.
Buy euro and its closer to 6 months MTO...
If discounting below cost is selling cars for Holden then that puts them in a worse position than selling none.

They are still covering cost.. They arent that stupid!

January / February are traditionally good months with customers coming in to buy last years stock.. This has worked to both Ford and Holdens advantage in the past (especially dealers as manufacturers give bonus money, making cars easier to move and allowing them to get numbers up), the sad part for Ford this year is they have stuff all stock! My local suppliers holding yard is empty, when it can handle up to 200 new vehicles... Now he cant supply what anyone wants which has left him in a pickle!

4Vman · 07-01-2009, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

They are still covering cost.. They arent that stupid!

How does that work? Holden were making a big loss before they went on a discounting spree, surely they must be loosing more now if they discount further even if its only to move dead stock?

Smoke Pursuit · 07-01-2009, 03:27 PM

Simple fact of the matter is people arent going to pay 38 kay for an XR8 ute and wait 8 weeks when they can buy a 6 litre SS for 33 and drive it home tomorrow..

Ford has stuff all ute stock... theres very few around which is why there is an 8 week wait, and ofcourse since its 2009 stock order theres no bonus / discount...

Ford are well understocked at the end of 2008 which is probably good from an accounting point of view, but harder when dealers are competiting with Holden dealers selling 2008 plate vehicles at rediculous prices, how can you compete??

5.4 GT · 07-01-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

Simple fact of the matter is people arent going to pay 38 kay for an XR8 ute and wait 8 weeks when they can buy a 6 litre SS for 33 and drive it home tomorrow..

Agreed, this may be something to tip people over the line that have no brand loyalty (most buyers). Even if the pricing was closer matched than that or identical.

**Polyal** · 07-01-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5.4 GT

Agreed, this may be something to tip people over the line that have no brand loyalty (most buyers). Even if the pricing was closer matched than that or identical.

Hmm well it depends on the person I guess.

I was after some furniture a while back, went to a shop, picked what I want, said that will be 8 weeks wait. So yeah I said no and brought else where.

A car is different though, especially a XR8, if we were talking base model then typically there is less emotion behind the decision.

Id rather Ford sell less cars and keep a margin, this has actually been a strategy of sorts for them anyway.

Of course they would love to have volume, but not at the expense of profit.

4Vman · 07-01-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5.4 GT

Agreed, this may be something to tip people over the line that have no brand loyalty (most buyers). Even if the pricing was closer matched than that or identical.

Price would be the deal maker, not the delay...

imugli · 07-01-2009, 03:44 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong but if Ford have waiting lists for all their cars, does that not mean they can afford to sell them at list price, making more money for Ford per car. Mulally has said all along he's not interested in volume for volume's sake, he want's Ford to be profitable.

Surely having no cars in holding yards means Ford doesn't have to discount last years stocks at this years sales like Holden has to, which has to be a good thing, not a bad one... IMO Ford are starting to do a pretty good job with the vehicles they have. The new Fiesta SHOULD give them a massive boost of younger clientele and that is where brand loyalty starts. It takes years, but Ford have to start somewhere...

It's possibly just me, but I think Ford's image is moving slightly more upmarket than Holden's. Euro Fiesta, Euro Focus, Euro Mondeo, focus on G6 (Euro-like) Falcons vs Korean Barina, Euro Astra, Korean Whatever their medium sizer is, focus on sell as many as we can at whatever price commodore...

Smoke Pursuit · 07-01-2009, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imugli

Correct me if I'm wrong but if Ford have waiting lists for all their cars, does that not mean they can afford to sell them at list price, making more money for Ford per car. Mulally has said all along he's not interested in volume for volume's sake, he want's Ford to be profitable.

Surely having no cars in holding yards means Ford doesn't have to discount last years stocks at this years sales like Holden has to, which has to be a good thing, not a bad one... IMO Ford are starting to do a pretty good job with the vehicles they have. The new Fiesta SHOULD give them a massive boost of younger clientele and that is where brand loyalty starts. It takes years, but Ford have to start somewhere...

It's possibly just me, but I think Ford's image is moving slightly more upmarket than Holden's. Euro Fiesta, Euro Focus, Euro Mondeo, focus on G6 (Euro-like) Falcons vs Korean Barina, Euro Astra, Korean Whatever their medium sizer is, focus on sell as many as we can at whatever price commodore...

This may work for manufacturers, but what about the retailers?? If they have no cars to sell what to do they do? Sit there?? Its all about volume for dealers, they may lose on some cars but what they lose on some the double on others, plus they have other divisions that also need to be fed, like finance, aftermarket accessories etc etc.

Gobes32 · 07-01-2009, 04:04 PM

As a production worker, I can assure you it is definitely a strategy of Ford's to produce only what the market demands we make.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

This may work for manufacturers, but what about the retailers?? If they have no cars to sell what to do they do? Sit there?? Its all about volume for dealers, they may lose on some cars but what they lose on some the double on others, plus they have other divisions that also need to be fed, like finance, aftermarket accessories etc etc.

Maybe more personalized service, instead of feeling like cattle every time you buy a Ford, maybe it could be like buying a Lexus or Volvo, Jag etc. It should feel special and as if you are buying a great ownership experience, not just a car. When you have the same volume as Toyota, it's impossible to treat everyone specially.

Smoke Pursuit · 07-01-2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

As a production worker, I can assure you it is definitely a strategy of Ford's to produce only what the market demands we make.

Maybe more personalized service, instead of feeling like cattle every time you buy a Ford, maybe it could be like buying a Lexus or Volvo, Jag etc. It should feel special and as if you are buying a great ownership experience, not just a car. When you have the same volume as Toyota, it's impossible to treat everyone specially.

Wrong...

Fords not a luxury brand, therefore dealers don't have the same profit margins that luxury brands do... Fords and Holdens are all numbers, dont get the numbers and its bye bye...

Ford could have marketed the cars somewhat in the last month of December, especially the 5 star safety rating... There stupid cricket adds are a waste of time and money... Not every australian cares about Cricket...

azaxr8 · 11-01-2009, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

Wrong...

Fords not a luxury brand, therefore dealers don't have the same profit margins that luxury brands do... Fords and Holdens are all numbers, dont get the numbers and its bye bye...

Ford could have marketed the cars somewhat in the last month of December, especially the 5 star safety rating... There stupid cricket adds are a waste of time and money... Not every australian cares about Cricket...

Wrong, Brands can change when ever they want. A few example are surf brands such as world industries. went from $60-70 a shirt to $5 at target?

Public perception is all that needs to be changed. If they are only making enough cars to provide the public with there obviously not losing money on making an extra car to sit in the lots doing nothing. Retailers might die, But you think ford really care about that? Look at the service departments and all the disappoints that people get from dealers. Won't get that crap from bmw, mercedes and higher class cars would you?

I see it as "weeding" out the crap "bringing" in the new.

ckugler · 07-01-2009, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

As a production worker, I can assure you it is definitely a strategy of Ford's to produce only what the market demands we make.

Maybe more personalized service, instead of feeling like cattle every time you buy a Ford, maybe it could be like buying a Lexus or Volvo, Jag etc. It should feel special and as if you are buying a great ownership experience, not just a car. When you have the same volume as Toyota, it's impossible to treat everyone specially.

Thats a joke isnt it? The last 4 Fords I have bought, I go home and check the car to make sure no bits are missing, that everthing works, that there are no marks or scratches etc, etc, and in every case there has been an issue. Then you get the battle of resolving these issues, which in one of my cars, took them 4 weeks to get me a jack and wheel brace and the tonneau bar for the ute.
As for feeling special, they have a long, long way to go to be adopting a sales strategy like this!

RATT · 07-01-2009, 04:35 PM

Ford

Ford Escape 76 137
Ford Fairlane 1 184
Ford Falcon 2,574 3,122
Ford Falcon Ute 815 1,027
Ford Fiesta 236 362
Ford Focus 1,077 1,269
Ford Focus Coupe Cabriolet 27 57
Ford LTD 0 4
Ford Mondeo 461 347
Ford Ranger 4X2 446 435
Ford Ranger 4X4 537 549
Ford Territory 1,089 1,284
Ford Transit 107 127
Ford Transit Bus 23 6
Ford Transit C/C 30 60
Ford Total 7,499 8,977

Holden

Holden Astra 628 1,220
Holden Astra Convertible 20 105
Holden Barina 711 948
Holden Caprice 138 244
Holden Captiva 855 856
Holden Colorado 4X2 370 0
Holden Colorado 4X4 516 0
Holden Combo 21 59
Holden Commodore 5,413 3,653
Holden Epica 175 231
Holden Rodeo 4X2 19 524
Holden Rodeo 4X4 14 607
Holden Statesman 69 110
Holden Utility 4X2 1,629 1,535
Holden Viva 270 369
Holden Total 10,848 10,464

Gobes32 · 07-01-2009, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckugler

Thats a joke isnt it? The last 4 Fords I have bought, I go home and check the car to make sure no bits are missing, that everthing works, that there are no marks or scratches etc, etc, and in every case there has been an issue. Then you get the battle of resolving these issues, which in one of my cars, took them 4 weeks to get me a jack and wheel brace and the tonneau bar for the ute.
As for feeling special, they have a long, long way to go to be adopting a sales strategy like this!

Sorry for speaking an opinion, I should have known better.

Auslandau · 07-01-2009, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckugler

Thats a joke isnt it? The last 4 Fords I have bought, I go home and check the car to make sure no bits are missing, that everthing works, that there are no marks or scratches etc, etc, and in every case there has been an issue.............. !

Sounds like you should move to a better neighborhood?

I don't know why people are so hooked up in numbers, as RATT and a few others have pointed out.

When companies (Holden) become fixated at being number 1 (2) in sales but loose the reason WHY they are in buisness is the reason they go broke! If Holden want to discount themselves into oblivion, good luck to em ....... at least they will go out as the second biggest!

Sell 10 items at $10 = $100
Cost $8 = Profit $2 ........ Total profit $20

Sell 10 items at $9 = $90
Cost $8 = Profit $1 ........ Total profit $10

Now ..... IF you are in buisness ...... What would YOU love to do?
1: Sell 10 items at $10 (Total Sales = $100) OR discount 10% to sell nearly twice the amount!
2: Sell 18 items at $9 (Total Sales = $162)

: Wow Business is booming

I know this is simple stuff but some just cant get there head around it!

| [/url] |

DanielXR8 · 07-01-2009, 06:31 PM

[QUOTE=Gobes32]As a production worker, I can assure you it is definitely a strategy of Ford's to produce only what the market demands we make.

/QUOTE]

That means Ford can afford to get rid of some of the deadwood in the dealer network, so the surviving ones have enough volume. Basically Ford have the reason and the opportunity to raise the bar for staying a Ford dealer. That would be good for Ford and its customers.

Gobes32 · 07-01-2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

That means Ford can afford to get rid of some of the deadwood in the dealer network, so the surviving ones have enough volume. Basically Ford have the reason and the opportunity to raise the bar for staying a Ford dealer. That would be good for Ford and its customers.

Exactly, although I got flamed for merely mentioning the idea..............

imugli · 07-01-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

This may work for manufacturers, but what about the retailers?? If they have no cars to sell what to do they do? Sit there?? Its all about volume for dealers, they may lose on some cars but what they lose on some the double on others, plus they have other divisions that also need to be fed, like finance, aftermarket accessories etc etc.

Agreed.

We all know that there are probably a lot of dealers around now that won't be in 12 months or 2 years though. Sad but true. That's where Ford, GM and Chrysler are all at. The fact that Ford dealers have little or no volume sitting around to clear now simply means Ford is a step ahead of Holden in refining their production model to be where the market is at.

Holden are trying to get to exactly the same position by clearing as many commodores as they can for whatever they can, shutting down production for a month etc...

IMO having a waitlist for a vehicle gives it a certain cache.

FalconXR6 · 07-01-2009, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imugli

Correct me if I'm wrong but if Ford have waiting lists for all their cars, does that not mean they can afford to sell them at list price, making more money for Ford per car. Mulally has said all along he's not interested in volume for volume's sake, he want's Ford to be profitable.

Surely having no cars in holding yards means Ford doesn't have to discount last years stocks at this years sales like Holden has to, which has to be a good thing, not a bad one... IMO Ford are starting to do a pretty good job with the vehicles they have. The new Fiesta SHOULD give them a massive boost of younger clientele and that is where brand loyalty starts. It takes years, but Ford have to start somewhere...

It's possibly just me, but I think Ford's image is moving slightly more upmarket than Holden's. Euro Fiesta, Euro Focus, Euro Mondeo, focus on G6 (Euro-like) Falcons vs Korean Barina, Euro Astra, Korean Whatever their medium sizer is, focus on sell as many as we can at whatever price commodore...

Agree with everything you've written here.

I also feel that Ford's will gradually enjoy a higher resale figure than their equivolent Holden counter parts due to the quality of the product as well as the lack of massive discounting.

If I'm right, this may bring some fleet customers back to Ford...

RATT · 07-01-2009, 04:43 PM

Look past the numbers. Holden sent new cars to auction late last year, and on top of that the $29990 driveaway offers etc. There would be massive losses in that for Holden. Cars sitting in a yard this time of year is dead wood. Especially considering that GMAC pulled out of floorplan funding. It would cost more to have cars sitting there than it is too sell them at a loss.
They need to go so therefore drastic action may need to be taken.

As the saying goes in the automotive industry, "Your first loss is your best loss"..

4Vman · 07-01-2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RATT

Look past the numbers. Holden sent new cars to auction late last year, and on top of that the $29990 driveaway offers etc. There would be massive losses in that for Holden. Cars sitting in a yard this time of year is dead wood. Especially considering that GMAC pulled out of floorplan funding. It would cost more to have cars sitting there than it is too sell them at a loss.
They need to go so therefore drastic action may need to be taken.

As the saying goes in the automotive industry, "Your first loss is your best loss"..

That is exactly right....

Its better to sell 7500 cars at break even or a small profit than 11000 cars at a loss...
Ford's strategy to move more towards manufacturing to order and away from commodity predicted sales is a good one at this time.

Peter B - CV8 · 08-01-2009, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

That is exactly right....

Its better to sell 7500 cars at break even or a small profit than 11000 cars at a loss...
Ford's strategy to move more towards manufacturing to order and away from commodity predicted sales is a good one at this time.

Good point. Also, the purchasers of those cars will then need them serviced - which adds to the dealerships profit. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if service departments were the most profitable part of a dealership.

Rodp · 08-01-2009, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter B - CV8

Good point. Also, the purchasers of those cars will then need them serviced - which adds to the dealerships profit. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if service departments were the most profitable part of a dealership.

...and I think that's being overlooked by nearly everyone.

Servicing and spares - going to make a whole lot more in the backend if you simply have more vehicles on the road.

4Vman · 08-01-2009, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

...and I think that's being overlooked by nearly everyone.

Servicing and spares - going to make a whole lot more in the backend if you simply have more vehicles on the road.

Nobody's overlooking it, it just isnt such a big deal... barring issue it will be 12 months before anyone spends a cent at their dealer... a couple of hundred for a basic 15K service isnt going to make a big difference.
On the other hand the dealership could have been turned into flats by then....