Will the Holden brand survive? - Page 13

xeeclipse · 19-10-2018, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

So its most probable Holden won't survive in it's current form, Commodore will eventually die, and Ford have announced it will cease production of passenger cars except Mustang and their SUV/truck lines.

Holden changing to Chevrolet in Australia anytime soon can't happen as they don't have a RHD platform.

So the big question for Ford fans, what will those members with Falcons one day be replacing them with?

Assuming Mustang / Camaro being two door does not fit your lifestyle.

Move to an SUV model?

Consider a Jap, Korean or Euro sedan or baby your Falcon so it lasts forever?

If everyone here adopts an AU orphan we will drive Falcons happily ever after...FOREVER

In thousands of years from now archeologists will be digging up perfectly preserves AU's in a mummified state. Quick oil change , coolant top up and new battery and the mongrels willl be good to go.

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust only applies to perishable items like australian lions.

**GO FURTHER** · 19-10-2018, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solarite_guy

Focus production will continue in China and the ST and RS lines will continue in Germany.

True... But I can't see Commodore or Falcon owners downsizing to a Focus.

**solarite_guy** · 19-10-2018, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

True... But I can't see Commodore or Falcon owners downsizing to a Focus.

True. I addressed the one statement.

naddis01 · 19-10-2018, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

So the big question for Ford fans, what will those members with Falcons one day be replacing them with?

Assuming Mustang / Camaro being two door does not fit your lifestyle.

Move to an SUV model?

Most have already moved on to dual cabs or SUVs.

Cheech · 19-10-2018, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

True... But I can't see Commodore or Falcon owners downsizing to a Focus.

We went from mildly worked FGXR6T to MKIII Focus RS, so we are out there.

OzJavelin · 19-10-2018, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

The alternative was to be like Holden and offer a FWD AWD V6 as a replacement sedan,

Yep .. not many of those already in the market?

danzvtil · 19-10-2018, 03:09 PM

Mercedes Benz is an aspirational brand with most of the c classes leased by business owners and their wives.
No one, and I mean no one aspires to own an Opel,GM or Holden, they are appliances, and the Japanese/Koreans are much better at doing these without treating customers with contempt.

eb2fairmont · 19-10-2018, 05:17 PM

Agree

But Holden and ford were once aspirational too.

**GO FURTHER** · 19-10-2018, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eb2fairmont

Agree

But Holden and ford were once aspirational too.

People still aspire to own a Mustang or Raptor.

au2000 · 19-10-2018, 05:33 PM

[QUOTE=GO FURTHER;6205302

So the big question for Ford fans, what will those members with Falcons one day be replacing them with?

Assuming Mustang / Camaro being two door does not fit your lifestyle.

Move to an SUV model?

Consider a Jap, Korean or Euro sedan or baby your Falcon so it lasts forever?[/QUOTE]

Well I currently have 2x FG II & 2xAU's, pretty sure they will last me the next 10 or so years, by then even ford will have hybrids in their line ups,
I won't need a ranger, a mustang will be consideration however in reality I can see most likely will be some type of EV as a local runabout given how petrol prices and speed limit changes are going, while my FG/ AU are weekenders etc.
on a side note, will be interesting to see what effect the FBT changes have on dual cab sales over the next 2 to 4 years.

roddy1960 · 19-10-2018, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

True... But I can't see Commodore or Falcon owners downsizing to a Focus.

There's definitely something unpalatable for me with a three cylinder engine . No logical reason but it'd put me off wanting a new Focus or Fiesta despite the fact they are highly likely to be very competent cars . Not for me though..

Syndrome · 19-10-2018, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LG17

They've stopped production of the "new Holden."

https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/hol...re-and-equinox

Inevitable

falcon_bandit · 19-10-2018, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xeeclipse

If everyone here adopts an AU orphan we will drive Falcons happily ever after...FOREVER

Only issue is, AU's have become collectable & are fetching top dollar..... well so ive read.....

MITCHAY · 19-10-2018, 07:49 PM

I'm sure most car people predicted this. We already had an Insignia before and it didn't sell why did they think putting a Commodore badge on it would change that? Did they even ask current VF buyers if they would bother even looking at it?

Those who know what a Commodore is used to be able to get a large RWD with a V8 option which made up a decent chunk of sales and those who didn't like the reputation were not going to start buying now.

The rest may have bought one which going by sales is **** all. Everyone but Holden (at least publicly) knew this was going to be the result.

The new 'Commodore' seems like a decent car but a Commodore it is not. Everything else is rebadged crap out of Holden like it has been for years.

arronm · 19-10-2018, 11:08 PM

The VF is an awesome car , how can Holden now compete with that...

Being a ford 6 turbo and VF V8 guy, for me there is now no car on sale I would buy. Why would I want a ranger (truck) and mustang doesnt really suit with only 2 doors.

The large 4 door family RWD sedan is dead. The diggers will be turning in their graves.

MITCHAY · 19-10-2018, 11:16 PM

It's sad because the last Commodores and Falcons were really good. Tech and power. Saved the best for last.

jpd80 · 20-10-2018, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

It's sad because the last Commodores and Falcons were really good. Tech and power. Saved the best for last.

No they didn't.
We were supposed to get VF in 2011 but it was delayed years because of GM's BK and the
update in 2014 was to get GM's new DI V8s and 8-speed auto, no point VF cancelled in 2017

The moment Holden started to cheap out on body changes like Ford, they were
in trouble and skipping the engines and gearboxes just drove the nails in further.

roddy1960 · 20-10-2018, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falcon_bandit

Only issue is, AU's have become collectable & are fetching top dollar..... well so ive read.....

It never ceases to amaze me that the much maligned AU on it's release has 20 -16 years on depending on being l,ll or lll has become probably one of Ford Australia's big successes. This in big part based mostly on it's 'different' look . The media motoring journo's were not so enamored by the car despite it actually being more advanced than it's biggest rival (VT Commodore) that was a runaway sales success that Holden could only dream about now .

The true testament to the AU is that there are still so many on our roads as we speak on the back of the legendary reliability , easy to fix , people collect them with a passion and the true believers will not part with them as easily as many other cars . Oh yes , and the Tickford versions are an absolute stunner with one of the best V8's ever built in this country ..Still command a decent price too..

Took a while but Ford Australia's AU is now considered some of their best work by quite a lot of us . She still polarises opinion like no other Falcon . Seems you absolutely love them or pretty much hate them although through AFF and other places there are some who are not overly enthusiastic about the design but also are smart enough to know they're a bloody good drive and will give several hundreds of thousands of reliable kilometres without too much worry .

Tickles me a bit that the model code in scientific symbol means gold . It is in a way .

jpd80 · 20-10-2018, 12:24 PM

AU was the last of the high volume Falcon, B Series was far fewer sales and FG even less.
Average life expectancy of an Aussie car is around 15-17 years so AU presence should be
fading now. Later Falcon presence on the road will fade more quickly due to far less sales.

At some point, we'll see more Mustangs on the road than Falcon and that will be mixed feelings...

minheim · 20-10-2018, 12:59 PM

I bought an AU classic brand new in 2000 in regency red and the dealer had it fitted with Tickford lpg. I sold it to my sister in law in 2009 and it is still going strong and on its original engine and auto. Regrettably the body is a bit battered from her ownership. I suspect the fact I babied it for its first nine years with regular servicing and it being on lpg has helped it last so long. If it wasn't so battered I would have bought it back from her.

arronm · 20-10-2018, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

AU was the last of the high volume Falcon, B Series was far fewer sales and FG even less.
Average life expectancy of an Aussie car is around 15-17 years so AU presence should be
fading now. Later Falcon presence on the road will fade more quickly due to far less sales.

At some point, we'll see more Mustangs on the road than Falcon and that will be mixed feelings...

B series, best Ford made. 2003 BA sales went through the roof. Saved Ford. Just look how many on the road.. After 2010 all down hill for Ford.

FG was disaster . Last 5 years sales dismal. No wonder they spent no money on it...

Sprint XR8 · 20-10-2018, 02:03 PM

The monthly sales average for BA was higher than AU. BF lost ground after the launch of VE in 2006.

AU 322,838 over 48 months - 6725 av
BA 281,197 over 37 months - 7599 av
BF 136,473 over 28 months - 4874 av

xeeclipse · 20-10-2018, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arronm

B series, best Ford made. 2003 BA sales went through the roof. Saved Ford. Just look how many on the road.. After 2010 all down hill for Ford.

FG was disaster . Last 5 years sales dismal. No wonder they spent no money on it...

B series best for made????

How many laps can you do around a race track with a turbo before it goes into limp mode or before the mighty modular spits a chain????

Where were all the dash clusters, icc units, stalks and switch gear all made??

Why was the humble heater tap removed?

Why were all the driveline components compromised by DANA due to cost cutting?

Why use a global rear end used instead of the insane SVT COBRA double wishbone??

All this for what? A twin cam head that only came to life above 4,000rpm??? Power vs reliability....

There's facts and there's fiction, The AU on merit was the best car this country has ever built and probably the only one we can truly call our own.

Syndrome · 20-10-2018, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprint XR8

The monthly sales average for BA was higher than AU. BF lost ground after the launch of VE in 2006.

AU 322,838 over 48 months - 6725 av
BA 281,197 over 37 months - 7599 av
BF 136,473 over 28 months - 4874 av

B-series sales were much better than AU until the Territory was released. From Mid-2004 it was all downhill for Falcon sales.

roddy1960 · 20-10-2018, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arronm

B series, best Ford made. 2003 BA sales went through the roof. Saved Ford. Just look how many on the road.. After 2010 all down hill for Ford.

FG was disaster . Last 5 years sales dismal. No wonder they spent no money on it...

From my perspective I can't totally agree ..

I've owned my AU since it was 2 years old ..Literally the best car I've ever owned and why I still do . As it happens in late 2014 I bought a 2003 BA Fairmont Ghia with moderate kays . Several issues including tailshafts , electrics , front suspension ,stuff not working .Found a real nice FG XR6 in 2016 , had to get rid of either the 2001 AU ll Futura or the 2003 BA fairmont Ghia with roughly the same kays to make way for it and had no hesitation in offloading the BA . Matter of fact the AU was/is a much more comfortable car to drive and as hard as this might be to believe the only components other than tyres, exhaust,batteries, brake pads, bulbs etc etc is literally . the CD player , 1 x alternator , one steering boot , one power steering hose very recently, a couple of power window switches bootlid pivots and one ram damaged by a worn pivot . and a backlight for the clock ..everything else all as she was and still working .

I'll have an AU over a BA any day for that reason alone .

The FG , FGX might of been a 'disaster' sales wise but again from personal experience the NA FG XR6 I have is a beaut car to use over the past two and a half years .. We all see it different though and we all have certain opinions .

Commodore was also pretty darn good , especially the VF but it's sales plummeted too ..The whole point of this thread really as the Commodore was/is holden's ray of hope .. .

jpd80 · 20-10-2018, 05:18 PM

Just to add a bit of clarity to sales history,
Up until about July 2000, AU was selling at between 5,500 -6,500/mth but then fell off a cliff in 2001 and 2002
when sales went down to around 3,500/mth. The introduction of BA saw Falcon climb out of the sales hole,
peaking at 6,500 a month in August '03 but then started the steady decline through BF and BF II.
There's a lot of good reading on this thanks to Russell's sales data in Tech Resources...LINK

As much as we like to call FG a sales disaster, I think Ford did the best they could but the damage was done
and without $200 mil from the government, we would have just got a BF III and much earlier exit from Aus.

pottery beige · 20-10-2018, 07:19 PM

can you drive an a/u without a paper bag over your head??

srs

vztrt · 20-10-2018, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Just to add a bit of clarity to sales history,
Up until about July 2000, AU was selling at between 5,500 -6,500/mth but then fell off a cliff in 2001 and 2002
when sales went down to around 3,500/mth. The introduction of BA saw Falcon climb out of the sales hole,
peaking at 6,500 a month in August '03 but then started the steady decline through BF and BF II.
There's a lot of good reading on this thanks to Russell's sales data in Tech Resources...LINK

As much as we like to call FG a sales disaster, I think Ford did the best they could but the damage was done
and without $200 mil from the government, we would have just got a BF III and much earlier exit from Aus.

Ford never built enough to sell in numbers. The FG did well but the large car segment was dying and Ford didn't have a sports wagon to prop its numbers up (mind you Terri was a better car for this purpose).

arronm · 20-10-2018, 07:41 PM

Yes, I had AU3 for a while. Great car, comfortable like my EF. Just UGLY. But you dont see the UGLY when driving. Not my favorite car, BA BF way better.

naddis01 · 20-10-2018, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arronm

Yes, I had AU3 for a while. Great car, comfortable like my EF. Just UGLY. But you dont see the UGLY when driving. Not my favorite car, BA BF way better.

Yes you do because the look of the interior was as bad as the exterior.