The drug "Ice"

[commodorenutt]

There's 3 shows on this (broader) topic, screening back-to-back on ABC2 tomorrow (Monday) night, repeating again next Sunday night.
They might be worth watching

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/programs/lo...meth/#episode/

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/programs/ag...ot-3/#episode/

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/programs/ru...very/#episode/

[ford man xf]

If you choose to take the drugs you really only have yourself to blame, for me it really is that simple, people who smoke know the risks, people who drink know the risks, people who take recreational drugs know the risks, the education on these risks are sown into our heads from an early age.
I know of so many people who take drugs and the effects it has on them, many of whom I have tried to help, addicition can be a terrible thing especially when it becomes that persons daily routine.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Pub247

I see a lot of blame on drugs in this thread and not alot on people. Alot of stories start out with pot and it seems people blame it for leading people down an ugly road.


Thats total bull****. i know better than most on here about it.

I smoked pot everyday for about 5 years i held down a full time job didnt get arrested once. Hell on the weekend id go out and party take some pills couple of lines.

I never tempted to touch ice or herion or go a near a needle even when i was around people like that. Hell i loved getting stoned i still do.

But i don't do that anymore because i choose not to. I can say i was addicted but i chose to stop and i did. Same as i done with Cigarettes recently.

I believe it's all in the mind and its will power. I think anyone can quit or avoid temptation they just got to be strong enough, some people are just too weak to do it.

I have no sympathy for drug addicts only for those whose life they ruin in the process

Some drugs are very addictive & it is the withdrawal process that hooks you, hard to break free, I'm sure there would be some paramedics on this forum who would certainly confirm this, I would say Ice is definitely one of them.

[Maka]

Heres a link, The ice age: 12-year-olds are slaves -

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/austra...id=mailsignout

A nasty situation brewing, NSW high school kids & their families need all the help they can get.

cheers, Maka

[Focusfan]

I think we all can agree that there is a wide range of reasons why some get onto hard drugs.
I also think there are a lot of blind fredies out there that know or have seen people doing deals
and also know family members doing the deals but keep quiet. Some with reason like fear of the offender.
Think it is about time some or all of these broke their silence and dob them in.
Can be done anonymously and this would have at least some impact. Staying quiet only puts more lives in danger.
These quiet ones are then an accessory to the damage.
Users need support, dealers need prison or worse. No one selling means no users.

[GASWAGON]

Just saw news today about kids as young as 13 becoming addicted to ice.....SOMETHING drastic needs to be done.....I dont know what but I know this drug is ruining many lives and families.....PLEASE SOMEONE do something.

[Focusfan]

Declare ice dealers as targets. No charges for anyone bashing the crap out of them and turning them in. Add a reward for good measure.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Pub247

Thats total bull****. i know better than most on here about it.

I smoked pot everyday for about 5 years

...Hardcore Bro!

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by Focusfan

Users need support, dealers need prison or worse. No one selling means no users.

The US is the perfect example of the criminal approach being an abject failure.

Prisons are clogging and draining capital at an horrendous rate, offenders come out as better criminals, billions spent in the war against drugs barely keeps pace with the problem, the majority of offender imprisoned for dealing are desperate users and not the kingpins who continue to find new users to ply their trade and criminal activity and violence within the community is increasing due to the desperate nature of the addicts.

It’s time to start treating all types of drugs, legal and illegal as an illness in society and start thinking outside the square.

The billions spent to catch and gaol with little overall success could be better used to educate and support and heavens forbid, maybe remove the restrictions to allow better control of the problem.

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by Focusfan

Declare ice dealers as targets. No charges for anyone bashing the crap out of them and turning them in. Add a reward for good measure.

Originally Posted by Focusfan

Declare ice users as targets. No charges for anyone bashing the crap out of them and turning them in. Add a reward for good measure.

Fixed

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Fixed

I agree, it's the users that are buying the stuff, without the end user there is no market.

[buggerlugs]

http://www.ebroadcast.com.au/tv/deta...18&fta=1&fox=0
On tonight............

[StealthAu]

The drugs aren't the problem, the people are the problem.
drug addicts, and that includes alcoholics, need help. Would locking up alcoholics cure them? People don't fall into that trap because their life is peachy. Plenty of people still drink responsibly and have a normal life, same applies to a lot of illicit drugs.
Better education would go a long way in curbing abuse of drugs, not condescending demonising crap, just the facts alone go a lot further.
Passing this problem onto the legal system just doesn't work, we have 70 years of evidence for this. The bill for this practice is passed onto all of use, the tax payers, and the money could be put to better uses. It is time to pass the ball over to the health department. Educate and regulate. Tobacco use and binge drinking are declining, back what has been shown to work.

[superyob]

I'll say it again. Hang drug dealers. Problem solved...

[LoudPipes]

In the history of human life, capital punishment has never deterred anything, ever, ever, ever.

In the context of the drug problem, the huge profits at play means there will always be dealers to create new addicts and feed the existing ones.

The fear of death will not change that as the big players are living in protection out of reach of most western law enforcement.

There will always be people desperate enough or even forced to mule drugs for syndicates, that’s the strength of the criminal fortunes that are made from selling the stuff.

Drug trafficking controls governments in some parts of the world and remains basically out of reach of the west.

It’s better to take the control of drugs from the criminal element and give it to governments under health initiatives and even though that will not cure addicts, it will at least mean crime and all the violence and destruction that goes hand in hand with it will be greatly reduced.

Up until recently I lived in New York and Connecticut for most of my adult working life and I can tell you what you see in Australia today is just the start of what was being reported in the US 10 years ago and if the US is any indication, it’s going to get a lot worse.

It is becoming epidemic in the USA, China, South Africa, Canada, South East Asia and Europe.

Thinking law enforcement is going to fix this problem is the solution of the Flat Earthers.

[StealthAu]

Originally Posted by superyob

I'll say it again. Hang drug dealers. Problem solved...

Yep. A tougher stance. This has been proven to work, oh wait... No history shows this doesn't achieve squat. But keep that attitude, the politicians will love you for it.

[Dash_XR]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

In the history of human life, capital punishment has never deterred anything, ever, ever, ever.

In the context of the drug problem, the huge profits at play means there will always be dealers to create new addicts and feed the existing ones.

The fear of death will not change that as the big players are living in protection out of reach of most western law enforcement.

There will always be people desperate enough or even forced to mule drugs for syndicates, that’s the strength of the criminal fortunes that are made from selling the stuff.

Drug trafficking controls governments in some parts of the world and remains basically out of reach of the west.

It’s better to take the control of drugs from the criminal element and give it to governments under health initiatives and even though that will not cure addicts, it will at least mean crime and all the violence and destruction that goes hand in hand with it will be greatly reduced.

Up until recently I lived in New York and Connecticut for most of my adult working life and I can tell you what you see in Australia today is just the start of what was being reported in the US 10 years ago and if the US is any indication, it’s going to get a lot worse.

It is becoming epidemic in the USA, China, South Africa, Canada, South East Asia and Europe.

Thinking law enforcement is going to fix this problem is the solution of the Flat Earthers.

Finally some common sense.

[Ibanezteve]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Fixed

Have you ever come across an Icie pole in a rage? Good luck trying to "bash" them! I've seen upwards of 6 coppers try.... And fail.

[Ross 1]

The war on drugs was lost a long time ago, America being the best example of failure. The government needs to look at Portugal's experiment, it legalised most drugs ten years ago. You are allowed to have ten days supply of your drug of choice. Anything more and you are treated as a dealer and go to court for prosecution. You can be made to go to counselling for drug addiction and this has seen a 40% drop in addicts and dramatic drop in *** infection. It has cost them millions in counselling and rehab centres but this is offset with the savings on gaoling the estimated 100,000 people in a similar time frame. I personally have never been to fussed by drugs after losing friends, cousins to drugs and still have a cousin permanently in the a mental ward due to substance abuse and my brother is almost at that stage as well. You can only hope you have done your best raising our kids and they don't end up going with the wrong influences.

[_Ben]

Realistically, there needs to be more education about drugs. At my high school when I was in grade 12, the Principal didn't want people talking to us about safely using drugs / protection at schoolies because she thought it would be a bad influence. Wtf? Let people know what to do, people will do drugs, and drink to excess regardless of legal consequences.
Obviously this is a very big topic, but flat out telling people to not do drugs DOESN'T WORK.

[superyob]

Many on this forum say that law enforcement does not work. They may have a valid point to some degree, but legalising dangerous drugs still produces addicts, whack jobs, mental issues, violent behaviour, broken families and countless other issues. So does this mean that because we can't stop certain behaviours, we need to consider legalising it? I'm sure the morally bankrupt can't wait for their particular proclivity to be made legal.

Some say education is the key. We live in a society where education is available everywhere, more than ever, yet there are more addicts, suicides and depression/mental health issues than ever. Look at the road toll amongst young male drivers. Education is not working in a society that does not value it.


LoudPipes wrote 'In the history of human life, capital punishment has never deterred anything, ever, ever, ever.' And he is completely correct. But it has been far better than open slather that allows anything to flourish unchecked.

I repeat: Hang drug dealers...

[LoudPipes]

I can fully understand what you are saying, legalising drugs may never impact on reducing the rates of addiction, similarly nor has criminalising it been successful in deterring their use.

It’s time to look at other solutions like firstly removing the criminal element and then address the social and health implications.

Humans have always had a predilection for mind altering and/or stimulating substances and I would guess to say always will.

Many drugs that are illegal today once weren’t and their impact then was not any worse than the impact they have today. In fact with the criminal element that’s involved now, I’d say overall they now have a far worse impact on society as a whole.

Methamphetamine in its earliest forms has been around since the late 1800, early 1900 and has been use for a variety of reasons, one being to reduce fatigue in soldiers doing WWII. Drugs are not new, not since the day someone discovered a leaf or a mushy that could give the taker a feeling of bliss and drugs will continue to form a part of the human existence.

How society deals with it is the big question.

Redirecting the cash flow used to unsuccessfully control illegal substances and get addictions out of the courts and into medical facilities is a good start and if that fails then nuke the planet and start again.

I don’t want to be seen as supporting drug taking, I’ve never taken any illegal drugs, I’ve never smoked cigarettes and I can’t remember how many years ago since I was the least bit tipsy let alone drunk on alcohol.

What I do support is helping addicts in a positive way and addressing a human failing with a new approach as the old one has failed.

It's just my opinion, I don't expect others to agree with it.

[Itsme]

Yep I can see it now, legalise drugs & your kids can be educated as they watch people shoot up/take it.
I really don't know the answer to tackling the drug issues we have but I don't think legalising drugs is the way to go.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

In the history of human life, capital punishment has never deterred anything, ever, ever, ever.

Can you provide references to prove this?

I would beg to differ it would curb premeditated crimes in the taking of human life, it would be an interesting result if a referendum was held in this country on reintroduction of capital punishment.

To be quite honest I don't think drug dealers crimes would ever fall under capital punishment at all

[Dash_XR]

Legalizing doesn't stop the black market, look at alcohol. At least 2-3 times a week I get people trying to sell me moonshine out the back of a truck as I'm sure everyone else does.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Dash_XR

Legalizing doesn't stop the black market, look at alcohol. At least 2-3 times a week I get people trying to sell me moonshine out the back of a truck as I'm sure everyone else does.

Prohibition just makes it even bigger though

[StealthAu]

Originally Posted by trublu

Yep I can see it now, legalise drugs & your kids can be educated as they watch people shoot up/take it.
I really don't know the answer to tackling the drug issues we have but I don't think legalising drugs is the way to go.

Mate, it's all going on under the current system. People are just suggesting it be handled in a different manner as the status quo has been shown ineffective. The countries with the balls to try things differently have shown positive results from doing so, being ignorant to change just means more of the same.

[Ross 1]

I used the wrong wording in my previous post. Portugal has decriminalised , not legalised drugs. Sorry. It doesn't stop prosecuting dealers, it does however mean that addicts have better access to help. Executing dealers will achieve nothing except provide a job opening for another dealer. Drug education in schools also needs to encompass teaching kids safe ways to take drugs. You have to be very gullible to think "just say no" works. If and when they decide to experiment, they need to be taught to try them in a safe environment, smaller quantities at first and teach them what danger signs to look for if someone is overdosing.

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by Ross 1

If and when they decide to experiment, they need to be taught to try them in a safe environment, smaller quantities at first and teach them what danger signs to look for if someone is overdosing.

Im all for educating the kids on the effects of Alcohol/Tobacco/Drugs, but giving them small doses of LSD or Ice, cant see too many parents giving that one the green light.

[Ross 1]

I'm not advocating giving them the drugs, just making sure they are safe when they do. It would be better to take half an ecstasy at a friends house with water and help available compared to a whole tablet in the middle of a paddock at a rave in 35 degree heat.