The drug "Ice"

[TEZG]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

Wow, not sure where to start.
Do you get out much?


I truly hope nothing ever goes wrong in your life.

What I meant was that some people aren't lucky enough to have had positive role models, inter generational attitudes to not having to work, where excess alcohol and drug use is "normal", domestic violence, crime etc etc.

Yes there are people who grow up in these unhealthy environments and go on to live healthy productive and successful lives, how?
My experience is that different people think different ways.
My two youngest girls, they are like chalk and cheese, brought up with all the same messages in the same house. A friend of mine grew up with two sisters, they have three very different versions of what it was like to live in the same house.

Yes I get out all the time thanks.

Too late, I've been through the wringer, lost a wife, kids, house, business, self esteem, self respect, self worth and luckily I survived because people were there to offer support, I didn't want it at first then realised that I didn't need to drink and use and I would be ok, now 22 years clean and sober, I now show my thanks to those who were there for me by being there for others. It's better than getting clean and sober yourself when you see someone get the message and be the person they want to be. It's a dead set battle, why do some win and some not?
Personal beliefs, quality of support, the list goes on.

[tranquilized]

Addiction, or one's predilection to it, is a personality trait, not a result of upbringing or a lack of morals. Some of the most stand up, genuine, decent people I know have incredibly addictive personalities - luck of the draw in that regard.

I tried Ice one, about 10 years ago. Never touched it again - it made me so focused and straight where as I'd only take drugs to escape reality for a while not to concentrate even harder on it.

[Shonky.]

to all those saying the answer is tougher penalties, and pointing the finger at magistrates.....

where do you suggest we put these offenders?

most jails are currently at 110 - 120% of capacity

violence and riots are up, break outs are up, they are getting more dangerous by the day

the reason in QLD at least, is generally thought to be the previous government taking a populist and impractical hard nosed stance on policing and the courts

all very well and good to just blurt something out, that don't really make it viable

I am commenting on this instead of the actual topic, cause some of the closed minded stuff that is said about drugs is just far too potato to even dignify with a response

[nuthin' fancy]

Originally Posted by Shonky.

to all those saying the answer is tougher penalties, and pointing the finger at magistrates.....

where do you suggest we put these offenders?

most jails are currently at 110 - 120% of capacity

violence and riots are up, break outs are up, they are getting more dangerous by the day

the reason in QLD at least, is generally thought to be the previous government taking a populist and impractical hard nosed stance on policing and the courts

all very well and good to just blurt something out, that don't really make it viable

I am commenting on this instead of the actual topic, cause some of the closed minded stuff that is said about drugs is just far too potato to even dignify with a response

I'd like to see the funds spent to maintain jails matched with funds spent to keep people out of jail (mental health, drug treatment, keeping kids in school etc). Eventually there would be less need for the jails.

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by Terry ZG

What I meant was that some people aren't lucky enough to have had positive role models, inter generational attitudes to not having to work, where excess alcohol and drug use is "normal", domestic violence, crime etc etc.

Yes there are people who grow up in these unhealthy environments and go on to live healthy productive and successful lives, how?
My experience is that different people think different ways.
My two youngest girls, they are like chalk and cheese, brought up with all the same messages in the same house. A friend of mine grew up with two sisters, they have three very different versions of what it was like to live in the same house.

Yes I get out all the time thanks.

Too late, I've been through the wringer, lost a wife, kids, house, business, self esteem, self respect, self worth and luckily I survived because people were there to offer support, I didn't want it at first then realised that I didn't need to drink and use and I would be ok, now 22 years clean and sober, I now show my thanks to those who were there for me by being there for others. It's better than getting clean and sober yourself when you see someone get the message and be the person they want to be. It's a dead set battle, why do some win and some not?
Personal beliefs, quality of support, the list goes on.

Terry, I quoted Castellan, it wasn't aimed at you.

I agree with you completely.

[TEZG]

Terry, I quoted Castellan, it wasn't aimed at you.

Lol, read that one wrong didn't I !!!
All good mate, hope I didn't offend you, I was a bit keen to reply by the look of it.
Too much "potatoe" (thanks shonky) going on, pushes my buttons.
Cheers

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

Wow, not sure where to start.
Do you get out much?


I truly hope nothing ever goes wrong in your life.

Yes I get about more than most and meet more people that most ever would deal with personally.

Things go wrong in peoples lives mainly due to their own stupidity and ego as
I have pointed out that Ju Jitsu is a bloody good way to learn self control and deal with reality of real life, I have done such from before I was 7 as my whole family were into it.

If a person is a wimp he has no hope and a nation of wimps Political Correctness is just that.

[nuthin' fancy]

Originally Posted by castellan

Yes I get about more than most and meet more people that most ever would deal with personally.

Things go wrong in peoples lives mainly due to their own stupidity and ego as
I have pointed out that Ju Jitsu is a bloody good way to learn self control and deal with reality of real life, I have done such from before I was 7 as my whole family were into it.

If a person is a wimp he has no hope and a nation of wimps Political Correctness is just that.

If you have nothing new to contribute, why not have a break so we can see someone else's view?

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Shonky.

to all those saying the answer is tougher penalties, and pointing the finger at magistrates.....

where do you suggest we put these offenders?

most jails are currently at 110 - 120% of capacity

violence and riots are up, break outs are up, they are getting more dangerous by the day

the reason in QLD at least, is generally thought to be the previous government taking a populist and impractical hard nosed stance on policing and the courts

all very well and good to just blurt something out, that don't really make it viable

I am commenting on this instead of the actual topic, cause some of the closed minded stuff that is said about drugs is just far too potato to even dignify with a response

The thing is that such people don't have any regard for the law or the cops and are just running around causing trouble.
In my day the cops would polish your tail if you got out of hand and it worked wonders.

[Shonky.]

Despite all the random references to Ju Jitsu you seem to have a very un Ju Jitsu like approach to non-physical confrontation

[lgpking22]

I like castellan he says it straight even if hes mad there is abit to much loving and agreement going on in these forums these days.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by castellan

The thing is that such people don't have any regard for the law or the cops and are just running around causing trouble.
In my day the cops would polish your tail if you got out of hand and it worked wonders.

Somewhat like posters having little regard for Mods.
Perhaps Mods in 'your day' would have 'polished your tail' and given you a holiday, instead of letting you carry on as you do taking threads off topic.

So could we all please get back on topic.
If you want to comment on law and order in general, start another thread.

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by lgpking22

I like castellan he says it straight even if hes mad there is abit to much loving and agreement going on in these forums these days.

Agree to an extent about the hugfests we sometimes see. I'm all for going against the grain, but when it is delivered in ironically a speed freak style outburst it's not very becoming.

And as per comment above its funny that to articulate a point about respecting authority it's necessary to disrespect authority

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by castellan

Yes I get about more than most and meet more people that most ever would deal with personally.

Things go wrong in peoples lives mainly due to their own stupidity and ego as
I have pointed out that Ju Jitsu is a bloody good way to learn self control and deal with reality of real life, I have done such from before I was 7 as my whole family were into it.

If a person is a wimp he has no hope and a nation of wimps Political Correctness is just that.

How about all those street kids sleeping under bridges?

Usually they are there because they have left very unhealthy households, or been kicked out.

I imagine if I was in a position like that I would seriously consider taking something that made me feel a little better.
Life would be hell, no access to a toilet, no access to a hot shower, no warmth, no fridge, no pantry, no lounge, etc etc.

When I drive up the Gt Nthn Hwy at night going back home, every truck stop has cars parked in them, usually with little kids sleeping in the back. What sort of life is that?

I would classify these people the toughest, wimps have homes to go to.

Not every addict is an axe murderer.
But hey, let's just chuck them in prison cause they're all scumbags...

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

How about all those street kids sleeping under bridges?

Usually they are there because they have left very unhealthy households, or been kicked out.

I imagine if I was in a position like that I would seriously consider taking something that made me feel a little better.
Life would be hell, no access to a toilet, no access to a hot shower, no warmth, no fridge, no pantry, no lounge, etc etc.

When I drive up the Gt Nthn Hwy at night going back home, every truck stop has cars parked in them, usually with little kids sleeping in the back. What sort of life is that?

I would classify these people the toughest, wimps have homes to go to.

Not every addict is an axe murderer.
But hey, let's just chuck them in prison cause they're all scumbags...

Fact is if all people had the guts to stand up and be a man, no one would be in the position of such as you say in the first place.

I could go on about such things in depth but one is not allowed to on this forum to do so, because one may offend another and the key hear is the idolisation of Political Correctness as it is just this nonsense that stands in the way of all healthy debate nowadays.

I will say one thing never play with addicts, as they need to be dealt with directly and I do say that Australian law is not working for the best interest of such people, in fact far from it I can say and I could go on about this point till the cows come home, how the cops have there hands tied by BS laws we have.
I have pointed out that in Israel, what they do is the most effective that I know of.

I feel for such people and if I did not I would not bother to post.

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by castellan

I will say one thing never play with addicts, as they need to be dealt with directly and I do say that Australian law is not working for the best interest of such people, in fact far from it I can say and I could go on about this point till the cows come home, how the cops have there hands tied by BS laws we have.

Police don't have their hands tied at all.
I have a sibling who has been with the AFP for 35 years and spent 20 years in the drug squad. They didn't want any extra laws.

You might be surprised what the Police think about drug users.

Drug pushers OTOH....

[TEZG]

It's probably been said that we have drug courts and sober driver programs in this country. They have some success and keep many non crooks out of jail which is a win from the start. Unfortunately our policies don't let all participate.

Israel courts seem to be able to sentence people to rehab for a period decided by them consummate with the offence, sounds good to me, rehab for a drug user is obviously better than jail and targets the offending behaviour. A year in a rehab may seem a long time to the addict, it takes that long for a lot of thinking and beliefs to change, if you can keep someone there for that long.

Of course not many get it first time, yours truly included, what I experienced and have seen mostly is it takes a few times, often many attempts to achieve a drug free lifestyle, just like giving up the smokes.

People that keep trying often get there, I've seen many people grow out of the lifestyle around mid thirties. They get tired of it and want a life.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

Police don't have their hands tied at all.
I have a sibling who has been with the AFP for 35 years and spent 20 years in the drug squad. They didn't want any extra laws.

You might be surprised what the Police think about drug users.

Drug pushers OTOH....

QLD hear bud, the ALP over the years have done a lot of crap that is a disgrace, I won't talk about it here but you maybe surprised to learn the truth about some of the crap that hinders police and what total morons can get off with is just total madness.
It's not about extra laws.

I know exactly what they think about drugs period ! putting up with all the crap day in day out the world would be a much better place without such drugs.

I don't know why anyone would take such drugs in the first place, as it's all down hill from there.
And that's the thing, can't they see that before hand !

I would punch someone out if they offered it to me, directly on the spot, as there is no excuse at all for taking such rubbish.
I have seen what it does too people.

Zero tolerance for drugs is a good thing and everyone should be made responsible if they know a person is on drugs, so as to deal with them directly to the police and if a person does not do their duty as a responsible person they should be fined for not doing so, even if you are concerned about someone the police should take action, blood test on demand if need be.

If a mother fears for their beloved child is on drugs, the Law does not act as it should and take the matter totally seriously in hand and deal with it totally in every way possible, come hell or high water.
People do not have the right to take dangerous drugs at all and nor do they have any right to take others goods to feed their habit or prostitute themselves.

[SYZ]

Originally Posted by bathurst-racer

There are many reasons as to what draws someone to drugs. If you put the negative side of things aside and look at what it does it is easy to see why. [...]

What exactly do you mean by putting the negative things aside? Are you suggesting that, conversely, there are actually valid, positive counterpoints to using illicit drugs? As far as I can see, everything about drug addiction is a negative.

And I have to disagree with the claims that drugs give you "boundless energy", "strength", or make you "incredibly focussed" and "super quick". Also the assertion that "there is no better feeling" is of course a nonsense, which would only ever be claimed by a user or former user; it's merely a temporary false euphoria.

What about the subsequent anxiety and depression; heart palpitations and possible cardiac arrest; hallucinations and staphylococcus infections; kidney and liver disorders; severe mood swings and psychosis; serious tooth decay; repetitive motor activity; memory loss and insomnia; respiratory and lung dysfunction; pseudo-Alzheimer’s disease etc?

Oh... wait... we've put those aside haven't we.

[bathurst-racer]

That was a quote from maat. I was pointing out the fact that any achievement by a drug user is worthless.
Read my previous posts to work out my stance on the drug culture.

[maat1985]

I was not suggesting put them aside as in disregard them.
I think that you need to read properly and put the comments in the context of what surrounds them.
Of course there is countless bad that comes with drug use. My statement was in response as to what draws someone to use drugs when they know the bad. My response was to only highlight what a user or potential user sees as the motivation to use. It was in no way tp say that using ice can be good.
Everything you have stated is correct.

[maat1985]

Also false sense of euphoria is not something that can be said. Euphoria is something that can only be felt by the one experiencing it. It cannot be false if you experience it is a true sense of euphoria. One from the outside may see it as false as a substance is used to gain it however no euphoria can come from nothimg. All emotions and feelings are caused by someone or something in your life.

[maat1985]

And sorry but you got my goat a litlle bithow could you suggest that i cannot see and understand the bad effects of ice??? If you have read my posts you would see that i am an addict. An 11 years sober former user. Of course i cam see the bad otherwise i would still be using.

[Shonky.]

if drugs didn't feel good there would be no drug problem

doubting that underscores how unable to see past their own opinion and narrow experiences, and how not only happy, but determined to stay uninformed some people are

when I read some of these posts I picture a pechulant child with its fingers deep in its ears and screaming, whilst others are taking

[bathurst-racer]

I read your post Shonky and heard Freud chuckle at your last word

[Shonky.]

Stupid sausage fingers

[TEZG]

Originally Posted by Shonky.

Stupid sausage fingers

To go with the potatoe

[TEZG]

The cost to the community of the ice epidemic (if I can call it that?) must be very large and not just in dollars. Lost and damaged relationships, ongoing trauma for family and friends of users, crime etc......

I wonder what the cost of nicotine and alcohol is.

If they were new drugs coming onto the scene they'd be illegal.

[SYZ]

The price per kilogram of crystal meth in Victoria fell from between $280,000 and $320,000 in 2012-13 to between $200,000 and $220,000 last financial year. When it's purchased in China it costs around $100 a gram; by the time it gets to Australia it's selling for about $650 a gram.



This baggy of ice is worth $20,000 on the street.

[lgpking22]

Originally Posted by Terry ZG

The cost to the community of the ice epidemic (if I can call it that?) must be very large and not just in dollars. Lost and damaged relationships, ongoing trauma for family and friends of users, crime etc......

I wonder what the cost of nicotine and alcohol is.

If they were new drugs coming onto the scene they'd be illegal.

A good question heres a link

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1225909320297

A NEW study has put the annual cost of excessive alcohol consumption in Australia at $36 billion, along with a massive human toll. More than 70 per cent of the nation's adult population would be “negatively affected” by someone else's drinking in a year, according to research on the impact of alcohol misuse carried out by the Australian Education and Rehabilitation Foundation.
The human toll includes 70,000 Australians who would be the target of alcohol-related assault in a year - 24,000 of these would be adult victims of domestic violence.
There would also be 20,000 children across Australia who would become victims of substantiated alcohol-related child abuse.
“Behind each of these statistics lie personal, family and community problems that stem from the harms associated with the drinking of others,” said AER Foundation director Reverend Tim Costello.
“The results are clear - too many Australians are experiencing the negative impact of other's drinking (and) a range of evidence-based measures is needed to shift Australia's drinking culture.”