How to Ressurect the Australian Car

[whales]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

http://performancedrive.com.au/edito...lian-car-1200/

Does anyone think there's any possibility we'll see another Aussie car in some form or another? I sure hope so

Nope..... Not as long as your **** points downward

[71cop]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

http://performancedrive.com.au/edito...lian-car-1200/

Does anyone think there's any possibility we'll see another Aussie car in some form or another? I sure hope so

No I don't but maybe if we close our eyes we might see one in our dreams, that would be about it I would think.

[Peterwl]

This thread has some good wishes and dreams, so I will add another one.

Imagine a Kerry Packer, Allan Bond etc of today buying off Ford the production rights for the N/A Barra 6 and then buying off GM the rights to produce a VF II Commodore.

A Commodore with a great road chassis for Australia and "great" Ford motor in it instead of that horrible V6.

What a combination, with all the engineering done on both individual components, and just mechanical and electronic adaption to develop.

This would be a good car.

But winning the Americas Cup and taking over Cricket in Australia, was probably easier tasks, but they did them.

[FalconXV]

Originally Posted by Peterwl

This thread has some good wishes and dreams, so I will add another one.

Imagine a Kerry Packer, Allan Bond etc of today buying off Ford the production rights for the N/A Barra 6 and then buying off GM the rights to produce a VF II Commodore.

A Commodore with a great road chassis for Australia and "great" Ford motor in it instead of that horrible V6.

What a combination, with all the engineering done on both individual components, and just mechanical and electronic adaption to develop.

This would be a good car.

But winning the Americas Cup and taking over Cricket in Australia, was probably easier tasks, but they did them.

I like the way you think, I wish that happened too. I heard a Chinese interest wanted to take over the straight six plant and/or design but Ford said no. What a shame. Would've loved it to live on.

[FalconXV]

such optimism...

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

such optimism...

More like realism.

If dumerey couldn't make Elizabeth work, even with Holden "giving" him the zeta platform for free (Fun fact-would NEVER have happened) then no one will.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

such optimism...

The Australia car industry was created in another era when there were barriers in place to protect them (local content rules, tariffs, ADRs etc) and global sourcing from cheap, low cost countries had not yet been thought of.

These days company account departments look at the volumes for the Australian market, and determine the cost of duplicating an assembly plant in Australia for such low volumes with all the associated support systems is more expensive than slightly increasing the production volume of an existing assembly plant in some low cost country.

It is not rocket science.

[FalconXV]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

The Australia car industry was created in another era when there were barriers in place to protect them (local content rules, tariffs, ADRs etc) and global sourcing from cheap, low cost countries had not yet been thought of.

These days company account departments look at the volumes for the Australian market, and determine the cost of duplicating an assembly plant in Australia for such low volumes with all the associated support systems is more expensive than slightly increasing the production volume of an existing assembly plant in some low cost country.

It is not rocket science.

You are talking as if I don't know any of those things, which I have already covered. I'm not talking from the context of a large volume multinational, I mean a low-volume one like TomCar, except for road legal cars.

Originally Posted by Nikked

With any european manufacturer, just look at the population and number of countries in close proximity of one another, including those that produce cars.

If your country cant produce a cost effective specific part, its only a truck or train ride away.

Australia's best chance would have been a proper 2 way export deal with china to produce cars...

We still have a skeleton crew of some parts suppliers who have survived through diversification/pursuit of overseas businesses. The aftermarket also includes parts manufacturing and we now have carbon fibre car parts makers that are expanding in research and business. Not to mention the advent of 3D printing means more parts can be sourced in house. Ford and Holden were increasingly sourcing more and more components From China anyhow.

Originally Posted by Sprintey

So, with no industry any more, do we get to end ADRs & all the bureaucratic red tape and cost involved in being different to other parts of the world with our own unique system of compliance? I am good with that loss.

Well that's incidentally what could encourage a low volume upstart. In the current climate it would be impossible to compete with the established players on their own terms, but a few legislative tweaks means someone with a niche idea at least has a chance.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

http://performancedrive.com.au/edito...lian-car-1200/

Does anyone think there's any possibility we'll see another Aussie car in some form or another? I sure hope so

Simple answer, no.
Long answer, not really, not unless we manufacture a vehicle that can be exported from day 1, to LHD and RHD markets.
In addition I don't believe it would be of a mass produced scale either, more a niche vehicle, something that people would be willing to pay for that they cannot get from another already established manufacturer.

The difficulties will be:

• Finding a niche product that doesn't already exist
• Finding a market for it
• Pricing it so that it can sell and make profit, so it is viable
• After sales support? Who?
• Drive-train, use one from another make or establish a new one?

I cannot see it happening, especially here in Australia, too smaller a market, too far away from everyone to make export cheap and worthwhile for such a flooded market, and to setup would require massive amounts of capital for a very low return.

[78xcgxl]

It's funny how read about all the articles about manufacturing closing down and people loosing their jobs and you just kinder accept it as that's the way it is. If that makes any sense. After recently working at the Toyota Altona plant doing electrical maintenance work it really hits you hard seeing it in person. Seeing all these people who are about to loose their job. The working conditions are great, safety is paramount and behind the security gates, it is like a small community that has all the necessities you could want. It is truly is sad seeing good Australian jobs and industry finishing.

The Electrical company i work for has being doing work at the Toyota plant for decades and goes to show how massive the flow on effects are with manufacturing industries closing.

It is an absolute disgrace that the Australian government let this happen. The removal of tariffs and free trade agreements has done nothing but make the industry unsustainable and unable to compete on a level playing field.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by 78xcgxl

The removal of tariffs and free trade agreements has done nothing but make the industry unsustainable and unable to compete on a level playing field.

And wages up to double the award have no impact? If wages can go up when an industry is doing well, they should also be able to go down when its not. For everyone not willing to work for less (but still a legal wage), there'll be 10 people that are. Unions would rather sacrifice jobs than go backwards even slightly.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by b0son

And wages up to double the award have no impact? If wages can go up when an industry is doing well, they should also be able to go down when its not. For everyone not willing to work for less (but still a legal wage), there'll be 10 people that are. Unions would rather sacrifice jobs than go backwards even slightly.

Workers in germany, the us, canada etc are paid more than aussie auto workers. And wages only make up a small percentage of costs. They could work for $1 an hour and it wouldnt make much difference.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Workers in germany, the us, canada etc are paid more than aussie auto workers. And wages only make up a small percentage of costs. They could work for $1 an hour and it wouldnt make much difference.

Workers in germany, the US and canada EXPORT, they work on an economy of scale we cant comprehend. THAT is why they can afford to be paid what they are.

[78xcgxl]

Originally Posted by b0son

And wages up to double the award have no impact? If wages can go up when an industry is doing well, they should also be able to go down when its not. For everyone not willing to work for less (but still a legal wage), there'll be 10 people that are. Unions would rather sacrifice jobs than go backwards even slightly.

Wages need to be in proportion to the cost of living simple. No one can live on the award, it is a joke. I'd like to see you live on it. How can Australian workers compete with Thailand's workers on $4 per hour wage? Sure $4 per hour in Thailand is a good wage and in proportion to their cost living but NOT in Australian. I can't why people are soo thick in head, living in their own little bubble and can't understand simple facts.

The fact of wages and unions have doing to do with the ending of manufacturing in Australia. It is a stupid Liberal ideology. Removing tariffs and free trade is what makes the workers wage seem out of proportion because it is unfair competition. It is putting, for example an Australian worker at say $25 per hour with a overseas worker at $4 per hour. Of course the Australian made car is going to cost more to make and therefore retail for more than the overseas vehicle. So why would Joe citizen buy a ford falcon ute at $32,000 when you can buy a jap single cab at $23,000.

Having strong tariffs forces the Australian public to buy Australian made cars or pay a big premium with the overseas made vehicle. What do you think most will do. Buy a Australian made ute at $32,000 or the heavily taxed import ute at $45,000...........

[b0son]

Originally Posted by 78xcgxl

Having strong tariffs forces the Australian public to buy Australian made cars or pay a big premium with the overseas made vehicle. What do you think most will do. Buy a Australian made ute at $32,000 or the heavily taxed import ute at $45,000...........

It also encourages the industry to not move with the times, not deliver new tech or safety advancements, and not deliver value.

In any case, arent most people spending big $$$ on cars? Even when there are cheaper options?

[FalconXV]

Originally Posted by b0son

It also encourages the industry to not move with the times, not deliver new tech or safety advancements, and not deliver value.

In any case, arent most people spending big $$$ on cars? Even when there are cheaper options?

Bringing them back into play would not result in this. We have design and engineering expertise borne out of survival. There's no way we'd go backwards. A few protectionist measures would be enough to encourage a small volume upstart. Not even protectionist- just legislation outlined in the article like compulsory govt. purchase, subsidisation of crash testing and some development costs.

We have enough expertise here to build premium cars and maybe even a V8 dual cab. We are a tenacious nation and I know there's a generation of people inspired enough to have a go.

I get all the obstacles and the unlikelihood I just really want to see someone try. Otherwise we are a bunch of pretentious has-beens with cultural cringe, who let anyone from overseas come and buy all our houses, dig our minerals out of the ground and destroy our environment.

[Pepscobra]

Originally Posted by 78xcgxl

It is an absolute disgrace that the Australian government let this happen. The removal of tariffs and free trade agreements has done nothing but make the industry unsustainable and unable to compete on a level playing field.

When you think about it, had the government continued to protect the local industry and imposed import tariffs, we would not have access to the wide range of affordable international vehicles that we do.

[78xcgxl]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

When you think about it, had the government continued to protect the local industry and imposed import tariffs, we would not have access to the wide range of affordable international vehicles that we do.

So you are basically saying you don't give a stuff about Australian workers and are happy to save a few $$$ while being spoilt to a greater range.. Nice. If the local industry thrived they would of also been able to offer a greater range, just look at the US market.....

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by 78xcgxl

So you are basically saying you don't give a stuff about Australian workers and are happy to save a few $$$ while being spoilt to a greater range.. Nice. If the local industry thrived they would of also been able to offer a greater range, just look at the US market.....

-Population of America: 319 million.
-Population of Australia: 23 Million.

You really think that Australian manufactured cars can match what America does? American made cars account for around 60% of the 18 million annual sales also...

...and thats with no tariffs except for the "chicken tax", a tax placed on utes/pick up trucks.

[kazawaki]

NOPE ,It has been killed off.

[FalconXV]

Originally Posted by kazawaki

NOPE ,It has been killed off.

I hope someone out there proves you wrong. Does anyone know if automotive design or engineering subjects are still available in Australia?

[roddy1960]

G'day....Read this some time...http://www.aph.gov.au/sitecore/conte...IB9697/97cib22 This shows the way the import tariffs were figured as much as anything .So many other articles also feature and blame the Button Car Plan too rightly or wrongly for the demise of car manufacturing in our country.
This was our Government......
I'd love to see some sort of ressurection at some time in some form though. It's hard to believe that we live in a First World nation , one of the richest countries on the planet and the only one in the G20 that does not have (after this year) a car manufacturing industry in any real form other than R&D stuff....Cheers Rod..

[71cop]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

When you think about it, had the government continued to protect the local industry and imposed import tariffs, we would not have access to the wide range of affordable international vehicles that we do.

Yeah nothing like having a wide range of affordable international vehicles at the expense of our auto industry, just great isn't it.
We done quite well here for many years with our own auto industry which manufactured pretty much every sort of vehicle we needed to do any sort of job. If I had to choose between a range of Aussie made vehicles or international ones I know what I would rather.

[Vesper Martini]

Whenever we have these threads, it amazes me how people throw out their opinions at what would have saved the industry, or worse they have a go at people who like having the choice of imported vehicles.
When in reality they are driving cars 20 plus years old and don't contribute at all to the Australian Manufacturing industry.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Whenever we have these threads, it amazes me how people throw out their opinions at what would have saved the industry, or worse they have a go at people who like having the choice of imported vehicles.
When in reality they are driving cars 20 plus years old and don't contribute at all to the Australian Manufacturing industry.

Precisely. Hypocrites, nothing more. Where was their brand new XR8? Oh that's right, let's wait 5 years until it is second hand, but hey let's keep hammering those who buy imports.

The car industry closed down for a number of reasons and blaming the government solely is completely ignorant; yes policy could have assisted, but when a business relies almost entirely on handouts to survive it really does say a lot about the product being developed/sold.

Yes, I am disappointed by the local industry failing, but it had its time. On a global scale, we're simply not competitive enough to manufacture on a large scale. This can be due to government (all 3) policy, business decisions (not enough investment), geographical and whether you like it/agree with it; wages (retrenchment packages are generous esp at TMCA, and the company must keep those funds available, that's a lot of $$). We're simply far too tied up in red tape to be good enough to do business here.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Whenever we have these threads, it amazes me how people throw out their opinions at what would have saved the industry, or worse they have a go at people who like having the choice of imported vehicles.
When in reality they are driving cars 20 plus years old and don't contribute at all to the Australian Manufacturing industry.

G'day..I get your point but I'll use my situation as another point...I LOVE the Blue Oval stuff , probably too much in fact.. Not as keen on Holden but it's still pretty good..
Just over a year ago I spent $9500 on my 2008 Mk1 FG XR6..plus my BA Fairmont trade in...Around $12500 all up...I couldn't spend any more..that stretched me given my financial circumstances and house renovation debts .. As far as I know Ford or Holden do not have anything even remotely close to new that I could afford or even like..
Around $15,000 for a base Fiesta , About $19,000 for a ST...Don't do a thing for me at all. You've got to like what you're driving....Focus around $19-23,000 ...but that's $6-7000 more than I could go at the time...There are probably many of us driving older Fords for similar reasons to me I'd say..

One day I'd love to walk into a Ford dealership and buy a new one but is totally out of the question as we speak..Cheers Rod...

[Pepscobra]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Whenever we have these threads, it amazes me how people throw out their opinions at what would have saved the industry, or worse they have a go at people who like having the choice of imported vehicles.
When in reality they are driving cars 20 plus years old and don't contribute at all to the Australian Manufacturing industry.

Exactly.
Since 2007 I have purchased three new Aus made Fords. I think I did my bit.
For some people the air gets a bit thin up there on their soap box.

[Vesper Martini]

Not having a go at you Roddy on this occasion :-)
But there's a couple of posts having a go at someone who actually owns a new Territory.
the Irony of it...

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Not having a go at you Roddy on this occasion :-)
But there's a couple of posts having a go at someone who actually owns a new Territory.
the Irony of it...

G'day....I get your point again...My dream is to buy a brand new Ford one day...That'd be awesome...
Someone having a dig at buying a new Territory is truly ironic as you say...
I'd love to have a brand new Territory , especially if it was a turbo diesel AWD one. Titantium even more so....Nice...
Cheers Rod...

[roddy1960]

G'day....Denmark has a different demographic and circumstances , that's a given but their population is about a quarter of ours..They have never really been a car manufacturer to any degree but now they design and build this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6miOSw9_3xk....

Okay , it mightn't be the sort of car we'd want to build one day but my point is that with the intellectual property capabilities of the car industry out there from at least three major car companies ,( Ford ,GMH and Toyota), the manufacturing hardware capability that we've had , the financial and material resources we have then it's all there. Then you remove the shackles of being 'owned' by the overseas parent companies and the ingenuity that could be out there , we'd be dumb to say that this country will never return to some form of auto manufacture if the right circumstances and due diligence come along.
If this pie in the sky was to ever happen it would need to meet two important criteria..Top quality and export in mind right from the outset because like the Danish offering it'd be a smallish but profitable market with innovation and or performance as it's key marketability.
Most would doubt that it could ever happen but circumstances can change and it'd be awesome to think that it wasn't impossible at some stage..
Never say never...You never know what may happen...
Cheers Rod..