What made you feel good today?

[Citroënbender]

He’s an outsider, and seems to show - compared to public expectation - a disrespect for the notion of “Australianness” that people still append to Qantas.

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

I've never understood the reason why so many people dislike for Joyce. Sure, he can be like a politician, but what large company CEO isn't? I also can't understand why people have an issue with Qantas making money: that's what every business is out to do. Sure, there's a balance point between outright greed and making money, but it seems to me that he's done a reasonable job.

I'd be interested in the views of those who don't like him and why. (Keeping it respectful, of course.)

Well if I have to keep it respectful then I've got no comment

[MITCHAY]

First day of Spring

Though I elected to keep the winter doona when changing the sheets which given the forecast was the right decision

[Trendseeker]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

I've never understood the reason why so many people dislike for Joyce. Sure, he can be like a politician, but what large company CEO isn't? I also can't understand why people have an issue with Qantas making money: that's what every business is out to do. Sure, there's a balance point between outright greed and making money, but it seems to me that he's done a reasonable job.

I'd be interested in the views of those who don't like him and why. (Keeping it respectful, of course.)

1. He sent maintenance jobs offshore.
2. He changed many permanent full time jobs to contract work, reducing pay for the staff who had to reapply for their jobs.
3. He reduced staff benefits.
4. He allowed service levels to deteriorate all over the place. Late and cancelled flights as well as the flights that had to turn back after several hours due to mechanical issues.
5. He cried poor during COVID, convinced the government to shore up the company with public funding, and now, when declaring a big profit, is refusing to reimburse the public purse with any of the money.
6. He oversaw a scheme to sell tickets on cancelled flights and now the ACCC is threatening to hit QANTAS with huge fines.

What’s wrong with any of that, you say? He was just doing his job to reduce operating costs and boost profits?

Well, while he was doing all that he was increasing his own pay and benefits to ridiculous levels, way beyond what many other CEOs earn. Others had to make the sacrifice, not him.

And now that the ACCC is coming after QANTAS, he is heading for the door, but not before he awards himself another $10M in shares.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...01-p5e198.html

The whole QANTAS board ought to follow him out the door.

I don’t work for QANTAS or own any of their shares. I just don’t like CEOs like him.

[DFB FGXR6]

This should probably go in the music thread, but my week has been terrible, this is probably the only thing I have felt good about..........

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

I've never understood the reason why so many people dislike for Joyce. Sure, he can be like a politician, but what large company CEO isn't? I also can't understand why people have an issue with Qantas making money: that's what every business is out to do. Sure, there's a balance point between outright greed and making money, but it seems to me that he's done a reasonable job.

I'd be interested in the views of those who don't like him and why. (Keeping it respectful, of course.)

What you say is true, the problem is the fact that Qantas is a protected species and does not compete in a free market.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

I've never understood the reason why so many people dislike for Joyce. Sure, he can be like a politician, but what large company CEO isn't? I also can't understand why people have an issue with Qantas making money: that's what every business is out to do. Sure, there's a balance point between outright greed and making money, but it seems to me that he's done a reasonable job.

I'd be interested in the views of those who don't like him and why. (Keeping it respectful, of course.)

I don't have an issue with Quantas, just the issue with the leprechaun, just a **** licker, comes across condescending at times way he speaks, and it is never his fault.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Fair enough. But some of those things don't appear to be unique to Qantas or Joyce specifically and I don't see the same level of dislike for other organisations or specific CEOs.

I've responded to some of your points.

Originally Posted by Trendseeker

1. He sent maintenance jobs offshore.him.

Many large Australian companies sent some of their services off shore. Telstra call centre for example. I'm not saying it's right or I agree with it, but it's not just Qantas that has done this.

Originally Posted by Trendseeker

4. He allowed service levels to deteriorate all over the place. Late and cancelled flights as well as the flights that had to turn back after several hours due to mechanical issues.

Hardly Joyce's fault. The vast majority of those incidents were the media blowing things out of proportion. Particularly the event at Alice Springs. People have no concept of spare part distribution for aviation if they expected any airline to have had the right spare part needed to return that aircraft to service sitting at Alice Springs waiting for them.

Originally Posted by Trendseeker

5. He cried poor during COVID, convinced the government to shore up the company with public funding, and now, when declaring a big profit, is refusing to reimburse the public purse with any of the money.

Many businesses got handouts during the covid pandemic. Yes qantas got a massive sum compared to others and yes there was a call for those organisations to repay the handouts, but I don't recall that eventuating. Nor do I recall any CEO being called out for it like Joyce is.

Originally Posted by Trendseeker

6. He oversaw a scheme to sell tickets on cancelled flights and now the ACCC is threatening to hit QANTAS with huge fines.

All alleged and yet to be proven. If its proven, then yes, I agree that's not good at all. But let's wait until its proven.

Originally Posted by Trendseeker

Well, while he was doing all that he was increasing his own pay and benefits to ridiculous levels, way beyond what many other CEOs earn. Others had to make the sacrifice, not him.

He doesn't determine his own pay. It's the board that does that. Could you imagine the conflict of interest if any CEO determined their own pay!?!

Originally Posted by Trendseeker

And now that the ACCC is coming after QANTAS, he is heading for the door, but not before he awards himself another $10M in shares.

He announced his departure from Qantas months before any announcement from the ACC. IIRC, he announced his stepping down back around May?

And, again, he doesn't award himself shares. I think what you'll find is that he has sold shares that he earned as being the CEO over the last 15 years. And those shares would have been apportioned to him in accordance with his remuneration package endorsed by the board.

Originally Posted by Trendseeker

I don’t work for QANTAS or own any of their shares. I just don’t like CEOs like him.

Your perogative to not like him. It just seems to me that he is targeted unlike a lot of other CEOs. Is this tall poppy syndrome? I'm not sure.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Itsme

I don't have an issue with Quantas, just the issue with the leprechaun, just a **** licker, comes across condescending at times way he speaks, and it is never his fault.

Is that different to any other CEO tho? As per my previous post, Joyce seems, to me at least, to act like most other CEOs, but still seems to be pin pointed.

Is it because he is in the news more than other CEOs? Is it because his personal traits run people up the wrong way? All of the above added up?

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Is that different to any other CEO tho? As per my previous post, Joyce seems, to me at least, to act like most other CEOs, but still seems to be pin pointed.

Is it because he is in the news more than other CEOs? Is it because his personal traits run people up the wrong way? All of the above added up?

I can think of another person, but you asked the question with this particular one, one last comment I think the obnoxiously high bonus schemes is what get the tongues wagging.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Itsme

I can think of another person, but you asked the question with this particular one, one last comment I think the obnoxiously high bonus schemes is what get the tongues wagging.

That's true, I did, but it was in the context that Joyce appears to get more than his fair share of criticism compared to other large company CEOs.

As an example, in this article, Joyce is the 39th top earning Australian CEO. Granted, the article is from 2022 so that list may have changed, but the point remains that it can't JUST be the remuneration packet, right? Otherwise there'd be 38 others in front of him earning the focus.

https://www.afr.com/work-and-careers...0221205-p5c3o6

[Charliewool]

Surely you are just spruiking the leprechaun to get a rise outta us??
The “man” is an absolute bloody disgrace and an embarrassment to the (once great) Australian aviation sector full stop!
Under his leadership Qantas is a damn shambles…
Ask any ex Qantas pilots, any ex Qantas baggage staff, or any ex (highly skilled) Qantas maintenance staff?
Ask anyone waiting for their (fraudulently obtained) cancelled flight refunds?
If he wasn’t in Albo’s hip pocket, he’d be in bloody gaol… Where the little maggot belongs!!

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

That's true, I did, but it was in the context that Joyce appears to get more than his fair share of criticism compared to other large company CEOs.

As an example, in this article, Joyce is the 39th top earning Australian CEO. Granted, the article is from 2022 so that list may have changed, but the point remains that it can't JUST be the remuneration packet, right? Otherwise there'd be 38 others in front of him earning the focus.

https://www.afr.com/work-and-careers...0221205-p5c3o6

I think you will find Quantas has been in the headlines for a long time with their controversies, same as another organisation such as Australia Post, when this happens these highly paid CEO's become questionable by the Australian public, do you see where I'm going with this? rightly so they get critised by everyone.

And now the little leprechaun is going to get another highly paid bonus for his departure, this does not pass the pub test.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Surely you are just spruiking the leprechaun to get a rise outta us??

Well, no, I'm not actually. But I can understand how it might be interpreted that way.

I just don't see why he is targeted so much as opposed to a lot of other large company CEOs and was interested to understand why those on here felt it was justified. I like to understand why people act and say the things they do. Maybe I should have a psychologist rather than an engineer? But, there really isn't much difference to me; as an engineer I try and find why a piece of machinery acted like it did or didn't as the case may be. A psychologist just does that with humans.

Anyway, to show I'm not just after a rise, I'm gonna bug out as I'm not here to wind people up and I've got an insight into people's thoughts. Thanks for those who were prepared to share.

Originally Posted by Itsme

I think you will find Quantas has been in the headlines for a long time with their controversies, same as another organisation such as Australia Post, when this happens these highly paid CEO's become questionable by the Australian public, do you see where I'm going with this? rightly so they get critised by everyone

I think I do. I'm still not sure why he is singled out for this, although I recognise that you've highlighted another as well.

Back on to topic, the weather here today is a cracker. Having hot dogs for lunch. A classic spring meal for me. Especially around gf day! Haven't had them in ages.

[BENT_8]

Just had the Gender reveal for my first Grand child....a Girl.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Just had the Gender reveal for my first Grand child....a Girl.

Congrats. Gramps!

[Trendseeker]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Fair enough. But some of those things don't appear to be unique to Qantas or Joyce specifically and I don't see the same level of dislike for other organisations or specific CEOs.

They may not be unique to Alan Joyce, but his behaviour as CEO over a 15-year period stands out as the high water benchmark for greed, self-interest and contempt for employees and therefore attracts a higher level of dislike.

Many large Australian companies sent some of their services off shore. Telstra call centre for example. I'm not saying it's right or I agree with it, but it's not just Qantas that has done this.

The behaviour of other CEOs doesn’t excuse Joyce for his actions. We’re discussing Joyce, not other CEOs. They have attracted plenty of criticism and dislike, but Joyce is in the news now.

Hardly Joyce's fault. The vast majority of those incidents were the media blowing things out of proportion. Particularly the event at Alice Springs. People have no concept of spare part distribution for aviation if they expected any airline to have had the right spare part needed to return that aircraft to service sitting at Alice Springs waiting for them.

It is absolutely Joyce’s fault. It has nothing to do with spare parts distribution; it is about planes being maintained to the level that they are capable of completing their planned fights without having to turn back or make unscheduled landings at other airports. Joyce offshored maintenance to organisations that Qantas doesn’t have direct control over. He achieved his objective of reducing operating costs at the expense of customer service.

Many businesses got handouts during the covid pandemic. Yes qantas got a massive sum compared to others and yes there was a call for those organisations to repay the handouts, but I don't recall that eventuating. Nor do I recall any CEO being called out for it like Joyce is.

Geoff Harvey of Harvey Norman was called out in the media for not repaying Jobkeeper payments, and they relented and paid back $6M of the $22M they received.

Qantas, on the other hand, received $900M and despite being called out several times, Joyce has refused. When it was recently suggested to Joyce that some of the money should be repaid, he implied the employees should repay it.

To quote from the following article:

https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/...back-jobkeeper

“Qantas directors have discussed whether the airline should pay back some of the almost $900 million the company claimed in JobKeeper benefits during the pandemic, as a circuit-breaker to stabilise the collapse in its reputation.

Both the board and Qantas’s outgoing chief executive, Alan Joyce, have previously taken a hard line against calls for the airline to refund any of the Covid-19 assistance funds. Last week, Joyce even implied paying back JobKeeper would have to come directly from his employees.

Should our people who got the money for JobKeeper pay that back? And you’d say no,” he told 7.30 host Sarah Ferguson. “All of that money went for particular reasons.”

All alleged and yet to be proven. If it’s proven, then yes, I agree that's not good at all. But let's wait until it’s proven.

No, it’s in the news now, so we can discuss it. The Prime Minister was on TV tonight commenting on the ACCC investigation and agreeing that Qantas should repay some money for Jobkeeper He wouldn’t be drawn on questions about Joyce’s bonuses except to say “people will make up their own minds about that”. Yes we will.

He doesn't determine his own pay. It's the board that does that. Could you imagine the conflict of interest if any CEO determined their own pay!?!

A CEO’s pay is usually negotiated every year. The CEO will seek as much as he or she can get, including bonuses and stock options. If the board is weak and doesn’t want to risk the disruption of recruiting a replacement along with the resulting share price wobbles that goes with that, they’ll concede to the demands.
That’s why I suggested that the board ought to follow him out the door.

He announced his departure from Qantas months before any announcement from the ACC. IIRC, he announced his stepping down back around May?

The announcement from the ACCC would have been no surprise to Joyce. He would have been well aware that they were investigating Qantas’s dealings. Qantas has likely been answering enquires and providing information to the ACCC for months. When the ACCC makes an announcement they’d be quite confident they have a solid case.

And, again, he doesn't award himself shares. I think what you'll find is that he has sold shares that he earned as being the CEO over the last 15 years. And those shares would have been apportioned to him in accordance with his remuneration package endorsed by the board.

Again, he would be nominating his salary package at the start of each year and negotiating with the board. The board is clearly weak. He can sell his shares as soon as they vest

Your perogative to not like him. It just seems to me that he is targeted unlike a lot of other CEOs. Is this tall poppy syndrome? I'm not sure.

It’s a simple judgement on the way he has treated customers, employees and the company.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Let's agree to disagree on some of those points and move on to things that make us happy and leave the things that annoy us for the appropriate thread, eh?

First weekend of spring and we had a glorious day here. That made me happy.

[LG17]

I was able to get back down to the shed and do some work on repairing the neighbours training sulky. The doc has had me housebound for the last 5 weeks.

[jaydee]

My son came over at 8am and did a cook up for breakfast with squeezed orange's off the tree and percolated coffee.
That's a good Fathers Day kick off.

[five 7]

Cooked breakfast with the family then headed down to Meremere with one of my boys. Spied a old forum member (whoolf in sheeps clothing was his handle here i think from memory) still hitting the strip in his Boss335, all in all a good day.

[Syndrome]

My father was diagnosed with cancer 4 years ago. He is still with us for another Father's Day today.

[ford71V8]

Daughter came over this morning for a Fathers day BBQ.
Her idea, but she doesnt eat meat, so she had a giant mushy, a tomato and salads and me and the missus had that plus bacon, sausage, chicken and eggs 😄 Trying to show her the way.

Lovely morning, need more like it.

[Citroënbender]

Put in some solid work hours Sunday, started with a weed spraying job ahead of Tuesday mowing, then onto my slow makeover project with Crash Bunny. First time since my back problems of late December that I’ve felt capable to use the crowbar for breaking heavy concrete without it worrying me. Shaping up to be a good, busy week.

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Put in some solid work hours Sunday, started with a weed spraying job ahead of Tuesday mowing, then onto my slow makeover project with Crash Bunny. First time since my back problems of late December that I’ve felt capable to use the crowbar for breaking heavy concrete without it worrying me. Shaping up to be a good, busy week.

Shall I start looking for a "Get well soon" card

[Citroënbender]

Probably!

One third through stitching on a leatherette steering wheel cover right now, no needlestick injuries yet, nor accidentally sewing my beard into the seam.

[five 7]

Courtney Duncan winning her fourth Woman's World Motocross title.
[url]https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/motorsport/132867637/courtney-duncan-wins-fourth-womens-world-motocross-title-in-turkey[/url

And one for the Aussies. A few days late.
https://9now.nine.com.au/a-current-affair/aussie-brothers-hunter-and-jett-lawrence-dominate-us-motocross-competition/b7d217b3-3620-4119-934f-a3a08830545c

[.:4:.]

Speaking of motorcycles, picked up a learner burner today. Bar a few minor cosmetics, none of the fairings are cracked. Needs a going through though as for the past 6 years the only times it was ridden was to get an inspection to keep up the rego, but hey, it came with 12 months rego.

[marty351]

Originally Posted by .:4:.

Speaking of motorcycles, picked up a learner burner today. Bar a few minor cosmetics, none of the fairings are cracked. Needs a going through though as for the past 6 years the only times it was ridden was to get an inspection to keep up the rego, but hey, it came with 12 months rego.

Learner burner? Details plz.

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by marty351

Learner burner? Details plz.

So to preface. L and P plate riders are restricted to 90kmh. My brother and i spoke a lot about how there isnt much point spending say 4k on something like a kawasaki z400, ktm rc390 or the like as the moment you get your fulls a faster bike will probably be on the cards.
So my brothers a bike guy, rides a litre bike like a tool but asked the bike questions of the seller and for $1500 i ended up with a 2007 honda cbr125r with 21k on the clock and 12 months rego. Bar a few scratches the bike is tidy and if i want could probably be onsold for more then purchase price.
So its nothing special. Factory quoted top speed is 115kmh down hill with a strong tail wind.