Ford workers break their silence on faulty transmissions: 'My hands are dirty. I feel horrible'

[jpd80]

Ford workers break their silence on faulty transmissions: 'My hands are dirty. I feel horrible'

Phoebe Wall Howard, Detroit Free Press
USA TODAY December 6, 2019
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-...145800004.html

DETROIT – They knew the truth and kept quiet.

Their secret wasn’t a secret at all in engineering, product development, research, design or manufacturing within Ford Motor Co., say seven current and former employees who worked to develop and launch the Fiesta and Focus cars that would become known for defective automatic transmissions.

“My hands are dirty. I feel horrible,” said an engineer who played a key role in developing the popular compact cars.

“You think of the gentleman who stood up for the space shuttle Challenger, saying if they launched that with the ice on it that it’s going to blow up. Well, these kinds of really horrific technical errors seemed to pass right through at Ford on this project,” the engineer said.

Asked whether the company ignored early warnings from its experts, Ford said the "vehicles were safe when they were introduced after rigorous testing during development, and remain so today after more than a decade on the road and billions of miles accumulated by customers around the globe."

More: Ford knew Focus, Fiesta models had flawed transmission, sold them anyway

The engineer said: “We’d raise our hands and be told, ‘Don’t be naysayers.’ We got strange comments. It seemed the ship had sailed. After that, if you ask questions, you’re accused of mutiny, so you put your head down and make it work. Good people tried to make it work. But you can’t violate the laws of physics. It’s a mechanical catastrophe.”

He was referring to the DPS6 dual-clutch "PowerShift" transmission used in 2 million Focus and Fiesta cars sold this decade that is the subject of massive litigation and a federal criminal fraud probe.

"It was cheap to make and cheap to assemble," the engineer said, but because the DPS6 used "dry" clutch technology, it couldn't cool itself, ensuring failures in real-world use.

more at link....

This is what happens when you have idiots running Billion dollar companies
who think they can "wiggle" on warranty and just obfuscate the truth.

The longer this goes on in public the more Ford will be kicked to the gutter,
they can't hide behind ignorance and it appears that Fields also tried to do
a deal with Getrag to get more warranty money....

The whole thing is a giant fiasco and the ruling in Australia, just the tip of the iceberg.

[Dr Smith]

Just goes to prove, cheap to buy (build) doesn't equate to cheap to use...

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Just goes to prove, cheap to buy (build) doesn't equate to cheap to use...

What is a replacement Powershift transmission worth if you bought it through Ford?

High 4 digits?

[jpd80]

Job security is a key threat here, all the development work started during
the global financial crisis and Ford used that to gag any critisism of the DPS6.

All developed under laughing boy Mulally's watch, and kept buried by Fields and Hackett.
They kept buyers hanging for years all the while knowing this S***y gearbox could never
be properly fixed.

Engineers and others involved in the Fiesta and Focus programs told the Free Press that speaking up during development of the vehicles was fruitless. They say they feared losing their jobs during the dramatic economic downturn that chased General Motors and Chrysler into bankruptcy.

“This thing, in engineering terms, had its own momentum,” said a veteran engineer who attended hundreds of meetings involving the vehicles. “All of a sudden, the project took on a life of its own, and off it went.”

On top of everything, U.S. Department of Justice fraud investigators opened a probe into Ford's conduct involving the transmission dating to 2010. It subpoenaed material earlier this year seeking to learn whether the company knew the transmissions were defective and couldn't be fixed and whether it lied to federal safety regulators.

The seven Ford insiders interviewed for this article include engineers present for planning meetings as far back as 2006, and some people still employed by the company. One engineer still has his paper calendar entries listing who attended crisis meetings in 2010.

They shared detailed experiences on the condition that they not be named because they fear being identified could threaten their current jobs and their ability to work in the auto industry in the future. Information the insiders provided in separate interviews was consistent with each others’ accounts and with internal Ford documents and emails the Free Press obtained during its investigation.

Some of the engineers and product designers say they agreed to talk because spouses and religious advisers suggested it might help ease feelings of guilt and their worry about the safety of drivers today.

"I told one friend if he loved his stepdaughter, he'd get her out of that Fiesta as quick as possible," one of the company's mechanical experts said on Nov. 25. "I wouldn't put my kid in one of those cars."

[Bossxr8]

Did Ford develop the DSG with Getrag, or did they pay Getrag to use an existing trans or design a new one for Ford?

Or were Getrag just the supplier?

I'm interested to know Getrags role in this fiasco.

No wonder Ford no longer sell the Fiesta and Focus in the US. They completely tarnished it.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Did Ford develop the DSG with Getrag, or did they pay Getrag to use an existing trans or design a new one for Ford?

Or were Getrag just the supplier?

I'm interested to know Getrags role in this fiasco.

No wonder Ford no longer sell the Fiesta and Focus in the US. They completely tarnished it.

As i understand it, the gearbox was developed by Getrag and a former Ford
Transmission engineer in touch with that project said the gearbox was never
intended for Focus as it was much heavier and more powerful than Fiesta.

As the engineering team got into development, it became obvious that the
dry clutch set up was problematic but needed to keep costs down. A wet
clutch setup would have fixed the problem, but cost just as much as a true
automatic.

The engineers tried to tell Ford management that there was a problem that
couldn't be fixed - the email trail was kept contrary to Ford corporate regulations
to delete and shred all documents once project work is done, will be good when
a senior VP has to take the stand, the wheels will really fall off then.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by jpd80

As i understand it, the gearbox was developed by Getrag and a former Ford
Transmission engineer in touch with that project said the gearbox was never
intended for Focus as it was much heavier and more powerful than Fiesta.

As the engineering team got into development, it became obvious that the
dry clutch set up was problematic but needed to keep costs down. A wet
clutch setup would have fixed the problem, but cost just as much as a true
automatic.

The engineers tried to tell Ford management that there was a problem that
couldn't be fixed - the email trail was kept contrary to Ford corporate regulations
to delete and shred all documents once project work is done, will be good when
a senior VP has to take the stand, the wheels will really fall off then.

I would love to know how the conversations between Ford and Getrag went and are still going.

As a supplier do you supply a product knowing it's not dsigned for the vehicle size where the customer (Ford) is going to install it and then say sorry we cannot cover the warranty if you do?

I'd love to know what $'s were saved in buying the dry-clutch unit and what it's cost meeting warranty, litigation, penalties, plus the hard to put value on "product reputation" and "brand image"...

Could this partly explain why Ford did a JV with GM on developing their current 8, 9 & 10 speed torque converter autos.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I would love to know how the conversations between Ford and Getrag went and are still going.

As a supplier do you supply a product knowing it's not dsigned for the vehicle size where the customer (Ford) is going to install it and then say sorry we cannot cover the warranty if you do?

I'd love to know what $'s were saved in buying the dry-clutch unit and what it's cost meeting warranty, litigation, penalties, plus the hard to put value on "product reputation" and "brand image"...

Could this partly explain why Ford did a JV with GM on developing their current 8, 9 & 10 speed torque converter autos.

During Fields testimony in July, quite a lot was revealed but I can't find the article...

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by jpd80

During Fields testimony in July, quite a lot was revealed but I can't find the article...

Yep, all I could find to my own questions was this:

A 2016 DPS6 update, obtained earlier by the Free Press, noted that a “seal and clutch settlement” with Getrag involved a $50 million payment that released the supplier from claims as well as a $250 million maximum payout over 10 years related to a settlement among Ford, Getrag and another supplier. Ford also obtained from Getrag a factory in Irapuato, Mexico, as part of the deal.

Fields, a former Ford CEO, gave a deposition in DPS6 litigation this summer.

And I also cannot find what Fields divulged.

It's going to get worse as the previous settlement is now being investigated.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Could this partly explain why Ford did a JV with GM on developing their current 8, 9 & 10 speed torque converter autos.

Ford and GM jointly developed a fwd 6 speed auto in the past. GM used them in their small cars but Ford only used them in their larger ones.

[Sprintey]

I can feel a Barra swap coming on...








(+ZF!)

[CyberWasp]

We all know in Big Business and Politics, this is how the problem is treated until it goes away and moves onto something else.

[Franco Cozzo]

Leave the DSG for the $500,000 Ferrari, torque converter autos for everything else IMO.

[Adamz Ghia]

From my own personal perspective, this issue is still affecting them. Mum ended up buying another Focus because she’s a creature of habit. Myself on the other hand, after having dealt with Ford through this whole saga, can’t bring myself to buy through them again. Never have I experienced treatment like that from any company like I did from Ford.

Some might say all manufacturers are like that but I haven’t experienced it from anyone else so I can’t comment either way.

Surely I can’t be the only one who feels like this.

[au2000]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

From my own personal perspective, this issue is still affecting them. Mum ended up buying another Focus because she’s a creature of habit. Myself on the other hand, after having dealt with Ford through this whole saga, can’t bring myself to buy through them again. Never have I experienced treatment like that from any company like I did from Ford.

Some might say all manufacturers are like that but I haven’t experienced it from anyone else so I can’t comment either way.

Surely I can’t be the only one who feels like this.

I think adam this has been the whole point for many who have seen this saga unfold & have said from the start that Ford has massively screwed up with this in how they are managing this issue from the start & even to now.

Knowing what we all know now, & many suspected from the start, albeit would have been a huge financial hit at the time, Ford should have just taken them back & allowed those who brought new the option of moving into a newer Ford vehicle without the financial hit compared to the negativity that it's created where even Ford loyalists are willing to wash their hands of the brand.

10,000 happy customers having a problem fixed is much better than having 10,000 angry customers going to court complaining and tarnishing their reputation.

I still thank the day the dealer warned me off the focus when I went to buy one & put me back into another car instead.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

From my own personal perspective, this issue is still affecting them. Mum ended up buying another Focus because she’s a creature of habit. Myself on the other hand, after having dealt with Ford through this whole saga, can’t bring myself to buy through them again. Never have I experienced treatment like that from any company like I did from Ford.

Some might say all manufacturers are like that but I haven’t experienced it from anyone else so I can’t comment either way.

Surely I can’t be the only one who feels like this.

Nope - After Ford screwed me on my Focus I bout 2 new Mitsubishis.

Will stick to Korean or Japanese cars now.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Nope - After Ford screwed me on my Focus I bout 2 new Mitsubishis.

Will stick to Korean or Japanese cars now.

Interestingly enough yours was a wet clutch DSG car too from memory

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Interestingly enough yours was a wet clutch DSG car too from memory

Don't know what happened with mine Damo.

Bought near new as a demo from Ford, Ford serviced the entire time till I found after the 60k km service that they had NEVER checked the air filter ONCE even though the filter was meant to be checked each service and at the 60K one I was charged for a new one that was never installed.

They refunded the service, did it again and did something to the intake side of things (clean) to make me happy.

Only problem was, when my car was returned it violently shook the entire body every time I shut down the engine.

They couldn't find the fault and fix it, and I wasn't paying an expert diesel mechanic thousands to try and root out the cause.

Sold it way too soon for way too big a loss.

Currently drive an i30 diesel wagon that had more space, uses less fuel and is cheaper to service and maintain. Oh and it's a manual

[JasonACT]

I love my FGII XR6T and am trying to do everything to keep it going, without being ripped off. Is there another Ford that I'd be happy with, Mustang perhaps? Oh, so close, but nah. There's better value to be had without dealing with anything like this from the O/S branch.

Not sure I'll ever let my Aussie build go. Probably won't be a daily in 10 years time though.

[CyberWasp]

A stupid question.
How hard, and what would the cost be to convert one to a manual?

[olds]

“You think of the gentleman who stood up for the space shuttle Challenger, saying if they launched that with the ice on it that it’s going to blow up. Well, these kinds of really horrific technical errors seemed to pass right through at Ford on this project,” the engineer said.

Lucky Ford engineers and product development people dont work in the aerospace industry

[Cobra]

This sounds very similar to the issues VW faced with their dry clutch DSG boxes in Golfs. There were no issues with the wet clutch versions in other models.

[EDManual]

I have a dsg diesel I30, and yes depending on how you drive, you can overheat the clutches. But avoid that and its fine. Did the focus DSG's have a similar problem, ie it depended on the driving involved? I would imagine that I wouldnt have an overheating problem with a focus DSG.

[Brazen]

Dry clutch is stupid for a normal road car. Sure it’s cheaper and more efficient, but cars need to be durable, not last a few laps on a F1 track

[roddy1960]

Ford dodgey transmissions have been a big bain on the company in recent times as we all know . Maybe it's a bit like 'trying to keep up with the Jones's '.. Lot's of others have new age tranny's so we will too . Then again some might say you need to speculate to accumulate . We'll have to wait and see I guess .

Kind of reminds me of the mid to late 1990's when four wheel steer was the new thing . The BMW head honcho (forget his name) was asked why BMW hadn't gone down that path and he responded by saying that when your cars handled really well already why would you want to mess with stuff like that .

Could be a case of KISS... Keep It Simple Stupid .

[Franco Cozzo]

This is more about corporate culture rather than the DSG gearbox itself, the bigwigs sit in their own echo chamber.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

This is more about corporate culture rather than the DSG gearbox itself, the bigwigs sit in their own echo chamber.

No different to 'experts on internet forums'.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by vztrt

No different to 'experts on internet forums'.

Except 'experts on internet forums' aren't calling the shots of a multi billion dollar global operation trying to stiff customers out of their entitlements

[Trevor 57]

Ford have a history of dodgy stuff, it goes back a long way - look a Pinto, GT-40 to name a couple

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Ford have a history of dodgy stuff, it goes back a long way - look a Pinto, GT-40 to name a couple

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Serves them right for being a can't of a company. Take them to the cleaners I say.

Ford weaseling out of their Warranty obligations have cost FoMoCo a huge amount of Goodwill over the Years.. IMHO