Councils

[MercurySilver]

Anyone ever had any probs with their council?
i dont mean stuff you should get done by law and that could inflict damage on other peoples property, but stuff that is so pedantic it defies belief

lets hear some stories

and yeah they just came knocking on our door after finishing our house off 6 weeks ago.
but i'll calm down before i go off on how that went

discuss....

[ute83]

I've got one. About two years after building my shed the council ring the missus and tell her that we haven't had a final inspection on it. Knowing that we did because I was there I rang the dude up, conversation got loud pretty quickly. Haven't heard anymore about it for at least three years. Most useless form of govment in my book.

[Kryton]

Our council is great at resurfacing local roads that have no damage and dont need it, while other roads are crumbling away.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by Kryton

Our council is great at resurfacing local roads that have no damage and dont need it, while other roads are crumbling away.

Here in Townsville soon after cyclone Yasi came past the council here put up a tender for a company to "manage" the repair of rain damaged roads (millions were given by the fed/ state government to all the local councils affects by the heavy rains/ cyclone etc).

Anyhoo... AbiGroup won the contract and seemingly these idiots do what they please and dont tell the council where and when the road works occur.

As an example, a main suburban road in my suburb was badly crumbling and sinking.... council temporarily fixed the pot holes. 2 months later contractors show up to "fix" the road. Large sections of road (20/ 30m sections) are dug up, new road base relaid and new section of bitumen laid.

At one intersection they closed it off without ANY signage or warning and had walked off for lunch.... ring council to complain, why is there NO signage?
(its a bus route as well). Girl talks to relevent dept and tells me "are you sure they are fixing the road? maybe its city water?" I say no, they are fixing the road in 3 seperate locations etc...

She says there is no record of anyone working there.. i tell her, they are contractors, not council. They will look into it!

After lunch signs appear as well as detour signs!
3 months later.... THE WHOLE road is ripped up and relaid!

An other example, massive pothole in front of the RAAF base, hole is dug up (contractors), road base relaid... new bitumen laid. Week later, same section of bitumen is again dug up and new road base relaid and new bitumen.

Recently a roundabout on the outer laying suburb at morning peak hour traffic is CLOSED off with no warning and NO detours... people are left in a traffic jam for an 1hr. Complaints made to council.... council knows NOTHING about it. Abigroup contractors strike again... unauthorised roadworks on a road which didnt need work!

i have plenty more examples... one really needs to question why council contracted out to a large company to "manage" major road works.

Plenty more examples of dodgey road works and works carried out on roads which didnt need it.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Kryton

Our council is great at resurfacing local roads where the councilors live, while other roads where the councilors don't live are crumbling away.

Fixed

[cheap]

My issues with council:

The insane influence greenie left wing eco-terrorists have on councils, it isn't possible to remove weeds or trim trees without having to fill in paperwork or having someone come out to review the situation. The moment you do something without approval on your land they come down hard. The moment you point out that their own guidelines state that a plant is a weed and needs to be removed they ignore their own rules. I've had to write personally to Campbell Newman (when he was Lord Mayor) to seek intervention. IMO councils are the ultimate nanny government.

Delays in DA approval, because the greenie left wing eco-terrorists wants my 624 square meters of land to save the entire planet. 9 months for DA approval.

Frequent visits from the council during construction. I should have taken an AVO out against them. Why because some nutter who lives a couple of streets away has the right to ring council and make outrageous complains about everything. This all added significantly to my cost and blew out the schedule, did I get any compensation, NO only grief ! I should be allowed to know the identity of the complainer but they have more rights than I do !

[xisled]

I know of one council in Melbourne that threaten to fine my dad’s mate for driving his car over the nature strip to park his car on the lawn.

The ranger sat out the front for 1 week waiting for my dad’s mate to do it after driving past and giving him a warning. A few words were exchanged.

My dad’s mate had to remove his garden next to the driveway so he could make a path to park his car on his lawn from the driveway.

[2011G6E]

Councils do some funny things...one of the funniest is demanding people mow their footpaths when it isn't actually your land to look after. People only mow it because they know that A: it keeps their property looking nice, and B: they know that no council is going to do it for them, even though, technically, it's their responsibility to keep mowed.

[Dusty1]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Councils do some funny things...one of the funniest is demanding people mow their footpaths when it isn't actually your land to look after. People only mow it because they know that A: it keeps their property looking nice, and B: they know that no council is going to do it for them, even though, technically, it's their responsibility to keep mowed.

Dude across the road here lives in a ramshackle house on a large block. I looked and saw cobwebs on the inside of the windows against the Venetian blinds that never open. He doesn't mow his nature strip, every year or so Council comes and mows it.

My dealings with my Council has been good. When I complained about a drain that had collapsed, they fixed it.

Having worked in one, mostly the silly rules are a result of the loudest nutcase complaining. They then have to implement it across the municipality in order to be seem as 'fair' and not targeting one person.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by xisled

I know of one council in Melbourne that threaten to fine my dad’s mate for driving his car over the nature strip to park his car on the lawn.

The ranger sat out the front for 1 week waiting for my dad’s mate to do it after driving past and giving him a warning. A few words were exchanged.

My dad’s mate had to remove his garden next to the driveway so he could make a path to park his car on his lawn from the driveway.

Water mains are not very tough, sometimes quite shallow, and are often crushed by people driving over non hardstand sections of footpath. I would hate to be paying rates to fix up damaged services from people illegally crossing the verge.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by irish2

Water mains are not very tough, sometimes quite shallow, and are often crushed by people driving over non hardstand sections of footpath. I would hate to be paying rates to fix up damaged services from people illegally crossing the verge.

I get that but he had been doing it for 10 plus years before the council told him to stop. LOL

[Franco Cozzo]

Macedon Ranges council sends out flyers to people warning about bush fire season and that fines will be dealt to people who don't cut their grass as its a fire hazard.

But the main highway between two towns has grass next to the road as tall as my car, which is dried out. If they do cut it, which is about once a year, they only cut two strips next to the road, 5m out from the road its tall as the car.

Someone threw a cigarette butt out the window the other day from their car and burnt down someones paddock.

[XP6]

My council tried to say no to my shed because it needed 4 bolts not 3 joining the middle plates of the span... the shed guy was shaking his head at that. He said to me that in 30yrs of constructing large sheds(this includes aircraft hangers with 100' spans) he's never seen it using zinc C section!

My council also insists on charging me rates that are higher than my house than on my "general farming block", although there is no bin service or even a foot path, they mow the road edge once a year... that cost's me $1200!

[Feathers]

Dad got a parking fine from the local council near work a few weeks ago. For parking over the allotted time period, (allegedly) 9.25am to 11.55am.

He was nowhere near where they say he was at 9.25am, as he was one of 6 buses several k's away picking up a whole school for their end of year picnic.
All our cars were parked inside the bus depot from 8.30am until we got back to the yard at 10.30am.
His ute remained in the yard until we both got into it, to go to the local strip shopping centre to run errands at 11.40am.
It was parked at 11.48am.
When we returned to it at 12.16pm there was a parking fine on the window.

Council are now arguing that someone else was obviously using it earlier, and we just happened to park in exactly the same spot, with the chalk mark on the tyre in exactly the same position, and not worn off from being driven on - 2 hours later.

They have sent out photos of the ute registration and chalk marking. Chalk marking proves nothing it's just a pic of a tyre, not the vehicle to which it's attached, and both are time stamped 11.54am.
Shouldn't the time stamp on the tyre marking be 9.25am if that's when they say they first marked the vehicle?

So Dad is off to court to fight it, and try to get the ranger dismissed for fraudulent behaviour.

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by Feathers

Dad got a parking fine from the local council near work a few weeks ago. For parking over the allotted time period, (allegedly) 9.25am to 11.55am.

He was nowhere near where they say he was at 9.25am, as he was one of 6 buses several k's away picking up a whole school for their end of year picnic.
All our cars were parked inside the bus depot from 8.30am until we got back to the yard at 10.30am.
His ute remained in the yard until we both got into it, to go to the local strip shopping centre to run errands at 11.40am.
It was parked at 11.48am.
When we returned to it at 12.16pm there was a parking fine on the window.

Council are now arguing that someone else was obviously using it earlier, and we just happened to park in exactly the same spot, with the chalk mark on the tyre in exactly the same position, and not worn off from being driven on - 2 hours later.

They have sent out photos of the ute registration and chalk marking. Chalk marking proves nothing it's just a pic of a tyre, not the vehicle to which it's attached, and both are time stamped 11.54am.
Shouldn't the time stamp on the tyre marking be 9.25am if that's when they say they first marked the vehicle?

So Dad is off to court to fight it, and try to get the ranger dismissed for fraudulent behaviour.

JUst make sure before you go to court, that you clearly ask for the photograph with time and date stamp showing the vehicle in the parking bay earlier. Use registered post so they have to sign for the letter just in case it gets "lost".

[xisled]

Originally Posted by bungarra

JUst make sure before you go to court, that you clearly ask for the photograph with time and date stamp showing the vehicle in the parking bay earlier. Use registered post so they have to sign for the letter just in case it gets "lost".

They do not take picture of the car when they first come around, they only take the picture when the car has been there longer than it should be. The reason for this is to prove the car was parked in the spot at the time of the offence.

With parking fines going to court, it is not up to the council to prove you were parked there, it is up to the person who got fined to prove they were not parked in the spot for longer than they should. THe council will have proof such as the photo and the rangers log book.

My advice would be get a witness statement from the people who seen the car parked at the work place, and even try and get a witness in court.

[Feathers]

Originally Posted by xisled

They do not take picture of the car when they first come around, they only take the picture when the car has been there longer than it should be. The reason for this is to prove the car was parked in the spot at the time of the offence.

With parking fines going to court, it is not up to the council to prove you were parked there, it is up to the person who got fined to prove they were not parked in the spot for longer than they should. THe council will have proof such as the photo and the rangers log book.

My advice would be get a witness statement from the people who seen the car parked at the work place, and even try and get a witness in court.

The ranger's log book would be pretty interesting to see. We have 7 stat dec's from people who were in the yard that day, driving buses with us, plus the work roster and the tachograph cards out of the vehicles.
The council are screwed.

Their current argument is that someone else took the ute down there in the morning while we were all out, and then returned it before we got back.
Impossible, as the only staff member onsite during the time we were gone does not and has never held a licence, the ute was parked in by another driver's car, and both of those were locked, with the keys in their respective owner's pockets. The only other people who drive that ute occasionally are the mechanic and myself (and we were both 7k's away in our buses with Dad and the other three drivers).

It's a deliberately fraudulent fine. The ranger was obviously hoping that we'd not argue and cough up.

Even if there was another similar ute parked there earlier, the ranger would have marked the tyre at 9.25am. On returning at 11.55am, a simple check of the tyre would have revealed it was not in fact the same vehicle, as there was no tyre marking, and the engine was still warm.
Instead the ranger has marked the tyre and entered the fine all at the same time.

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by xisled

They do not take picture of the car when they first come around, they only take the picture when the car has been there longer than it should be. The reason for this is to prove the car was parked in the spot at the time of the offence.

With parking fines going to court, it is not up to the council to prove you were parked there, it is up to the person who got fined to prove they were not parked in the spot for longer than they should. THe council will have proof such as the photo and the rangers log book.

My advice would be get a witness statement from the people who seen the car parked at the work place, and even try and get a witness in court.

Actually, which council rangers don;t take before and after photos? everyone I know of in WA that has photos have time stamped photos of when the car is first seen and the time the offence has happened to show the time frame. Maybe it is only councils in WA that do it. They started doing it when judges asked for proof when stat decs were being used by the alleged offender.

A few people got neailed for attempting to pervert the course of justice by providing stat decs in Fremantle Magistrates Cpourt including two lawyers all by East Fremantle Council Rangers having the time stamped photos of when the car first seen and when it had been past the alloted time limit or parked in the wrong area.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by bungarra

Actually, which council rangers don;t take before and after photos? everyone I know of in WA that has photos have time stamped photos of when the car is first seen and the time the offence has happened to show the time frame. Maybe it is only councils in WA that do it. They started doing it when judges asked for proof when stat decs were being used by the alleged offender.

A few people got neailed for attempting to pervert the course of justice by providing stat decs in Fremantle Magistrates Cpourt including two lawyers all by East Fremantle Council Rangers having the time stamped photos of when the car first seen and when it had been past the alloted time limit or parked in the wrong area.

I have never seen any council ranger take a before picture. I work in St Kilda road (Melbourne). If the ranger had to take pictures before, the ranger would have taken about 10000 plus photos in one day. That would be just for the cars parked legally.

I have only ever seen and heard of a ranger taking a photo after the car has been parked to long. They just chalk mark the tyre.

[MercurySilver]

ok
new house built
you have so and so to get you rainwater tank hooked up and have your septic hooked up and pumping out onto your block

council rocks up
unannounced no id and says he is from council
have you done the tank?
well all the downpipes are hooked up and rady to go, just have to wait for when the guy who is hooking up the pump to come back after holidays so he can run the stormwater pipes the two or 3 meters into the tank and do all the pump etc
the septic is hooked up to the house,running and the overflow is still just a hose outlet about 25 meters from the house but we havent hooked it up as a sprinkler system yet its still just coming out of a hose

"well thats not really good enough"
and proceeds to walk around my house down to where the tank is (uninvited mind you)
i walk out to the alfresco to have a cig before i explode and go banana at this bloke
finish the cig walk around the back, hes gone, no car nothing had a look then just ****ed off!
so ran council and complain
last thing you will want to do is send us a fine
whys that?
because it will come straight back over you counter when we come down there personally

two weeks of 38 degrees +, do you think its going to rain?
prob not sir no
thats right, and if the stormwater pipes were hooked into the tank, and the tank was full and it did ran, where do you think that water would go?
i guess it would go out onto your block sir?
thats right, so can you tell me the diff between and overflow flowing onto my block from a full tank when it rains,and, water coming out the end of a pipe that isnt hooked up to a tank
water is going onto the block in both cases!!!!

just to add
our block is 8900 square meters
you reckon we would have a prob and our neighbours would flood from our water??? lol

absolute muppets
yet we've been waiting since 14th nov for them to give approval so a contractor can dig on council property to a telstra pit so we can have the internet connected properly.
we've also asked twice itf they could come and prun all the trees at the front road so we can see when we pull out our driveway as we are pulling out blind
no answer
oh boy i cannot wait for this litle rotund ******** from the council to send me a fine

oh year
and next doors block of two acres is knee high dry grass
he's mowed about a meter in from the fence line all around his block and left all the centre
apparently this is all you have to do!!!
so i guess when it catches alight from a bushfire the fire will stop when it reaches the shorter grass of only two inches and wont jump the fence onto my property

*********
/rant (for now)

[b0son]

Originally Posted by MercurySilver

council rocks up
unannounced no id and says he is from council

no id? 'don't believe you, now kindly **** off before I call the police and report you for impersonating a council employee'

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by b0son

no id? 'don't believe you, now kindly **** off before I call the police and report you for impersonating a council employee'

Exactly. And in a previous life as a Council Development Control Officer if I turned up to someone's house without even so much as a business card I would have expected to be told to GTFO. Some of these people are their own worst enemies.

[blueoval]

councils are a law unto themselves sadly. Inspectors, town planners and the like deem themselves the law, and unless you are willing to go over their heads to a local MP or higher, they will do as they please as there is no other department that watches over them.

[wrongwaynorris]

Welcome to my world . Every second generator install I do I have to pay stupid sums of money to all manner of people for reports the bloody council do not either read or understand .

[Agent86]

Mercury, just be glad your not building in the ushfire affected ones in Victoria.

Its just an absolute farce trying to get anything done, So we moved elsewhere.

[2011G6E]

Back in the early eighties Bundy city council started "beautifying" the suburban streets by planting truckloads of trees in front of every house...at least on in front, usually near the driveway.
I was eighteen at the time and my old man said to the council worker planting the tree "That thing is only three meters from the driveway...when it grows, we won't be able to see down the street when reversing out". The council guy shrugged, and said "You'll just have to take a bit more care won't you".

I "accidentally" reversed my Charger over that tree three times before they stopped coming back and replanting it...apparently a lot of people were doing the same...

[MercurySilver]

exactly the prob we have now
cannot get out of the driveway safely because of trees, cant see up the road to the left, which is coming down hill that locals dont do 50kmh down, more like about 80

also seeing as im responsible for the water on my property, and fair enough, the land is big enough to absorb any water mother nature throws at it, yet the road is about 4 meters higher than our property which is set back 35 meters from the edge of the road
the road has no drainage
its just slopes down to the edges either side
guess where all the water goes from the road (council property)?
thats right
onto my land

so
when we get a fine because our tank isnt hooked up yet even tho we are in a massive heat wave and the block is big enough to absorb any water ill be giving them a fine for replacing the roadbase at the front of our driveay that gets washed away in winter.
tit for tat i say
oh and in ten years
the council rates have gone up $1000
we have no mail run, have to rent a p.o.box, and no footpaths down our road
guess we should consider ourselves lucky that they empty the rubbish bin and the recycle bin
which i asked if i could get a discount on my rates on seeing as we use the rubbish bin fortnightly (its emptied weekly) and the recycle monthly (which is emptied fortnightly).
we got laughed at.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by MercurySilver

exactly the prob we have now
cannot get out of the driveway safely because of trees, cant see up the road to the left, which is coming down hill that locals dont do 50kmh down, more like about 80

Having a block that big, you must live in a rural area and can borrow the necessary supplies off someone in the area...

One quick google search for "tree killing poison" results in a massive number of hits for things like "how do I kill a tree (quietly)" and "how to kill a tree without cutting it down?"...
Read between the lines and you will see what people are, in a roundabout way, asking for advice on...after all, when roadside trees die off, the council must remove them as a safety hazard...

[jpblue1000]

oldest trick in the book, show up, no id, no proof and no appointment to look around the property, have heard this story many times only for the owner to come home one day to find themselves broken into or construction materials stolen. Before anyone enters your property they must be invited, if they have an authority they need to provide ID as to their providence, this applies to Council and any council rep who doesnt know this is in breach of their Authority. They do have authority to inspect what the law requires them to inspect by fact you are building.
I doubt a fine will be forthcoming, unless you have exceeded your construction period significantly, but then angering them might backfire.
Agent 86 perhaps the new laws and codes are there to protect the community not enrage them, another 170ish lives could be saved next time by preventing owners and builders construct another death trap town, in these situations remember to look at the big picture rather than your own particular circumstances, Its impossible to enact laws and codes that make it easy for everyone...
Good luck out there.
JP

[Agent86]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Agent 86 perhaps the new laws and codes are there to protect the community not enrage them, another 170ish lives could be saved next time by preventing owners and builders construct another death trap town, in these situations remember to look at the big picture rather than your own particular circumstances, Its impossible to enact laws and codes that make it easy for everyone...

JP

Initially, the codes WERE usefull, but like all things politically motivated, wuickly became bloated, unworkable (for an average joe ) and in some cases blatantly stupid.

Tell me this, what good with a fireproof blanket in the roof cavity do?
If things get that far, the building will be gone anyway.

There are properties that are now only allowed concrete bunker type dwellings.
I dont see this in the Dandenong ranges, which are simliar but worse due to steep terrain, being bombarded with this crap.

I wont wander too far into the deathtrap argument, except to point out the simple fact in the lack of backburning for over 15 years due to Dangerous Conditions ( utter bs, it was political pressure from the greens, who are verbal about nop backburning ).

Ok, i accept that bushfires can and WILL happen in australia.
Some of out plants require it to germinate.

Everyone i know who saved their house, did so after making fire breaks, often in contrevention of council law and one case even made the news after a guy thinned his block.
Strangeley enough, his house survived. no special building codes required, jsut old school Be prepared. not the Stay or go policy that i refer to as The Monty Python aproach.

I can go on and on for hours about the blatant stupidity that is enforced, yet the common sense aproaches that are rejected and banned.


EDIT: Here is a little tidbit you wont have heard about the Black Saturday BS.

The police had the flowerdale road at kinglake west blocked, no exit that way either to yea or to whittlesea.
They also had the road to the Melba Hwy Blocked.

Both ends were directing traffic to the other end.

I know people who were almost killed due to others being send back, and running at warp 10 due to this. One guys Fairlane was in the papers burnt to the ground.

so before you say building codes will help save lives in the event of another Major fire, Just stop and think. Most people went back when they couldnt get out.
CFA told everyone to go home when they attempted to gather at the designated refuge area.

Before they stuck their noses in the buisness of private land, they should have gone and created an emergency response unit to deal with communications.
Lack thereof is what led to a LARGE amount of fatalities.
I was warned 2 hours before the front hit ( by a friend fighting it), which is sufficent time to make safe any plans yet the lack of proper communication to those in charge.

One thing i did hear, was the SOS call of a unit that was almost burnt alive.
My blood still goes cold when i think about that.

I will stop there because i will wind right up and prattle for a good long while.