death of osama

[Texas f-150]

so as an American, this forum is the only place i have to talk to aussies, and i like to hear opinions from other countries on certain key issues. So since this is the bar, and this is something i would talk about in a bar, what do yall think of the whole "killing osama" story, as an american and friend of several 911 first responders and heroes, id like to say i dont belive the story, seeing as how the man was dying of kidney failure and marfan disease 15 years ago, and how madaline albright in 2003 said they had his body on ice and would roll him out at a "politically expedient moment". What do you aussies think. And i will apologize now for ****ing anyone off with it, although you guys may be able to talk about it with out getting mad, as australia hasnt had to live under the "post 911" american sentiment.

[fmc351]

There was a thread on it when it was announced which got locked, so you could search for that for some thoughts from Aussies and Kiwis. This thread has a chance of staying, if it doesnt end up revolving around politics/race/religion etc, given the the nature of the topic, its gonna be hard to steer clear of all 3, I give it 30 posts.

Personally, I dont see how Obama could get away with what youre saying. Someone will know, and they will use that. Unless you think that Republicans and Democrats are working together to get Obama re-elected which doesnt make much sense.

The 'facts' about Bin Ladens illnesses may have been exaggerated during that time-frame to placate the notion he was getting away with it, as he at that point was still a free man. They also said he was difficult to find because he was living in a labyrinth of caves in an area riddled with them, if the current story is true, it turns out for at least 5 yrs he was living in relative comfort in Pakistan with his wife and family.

If OBL isnt dead, then its only a matter of time before we see that, AlQ wont sit on that, not for long anyway. The notion he was already dead doesnt make much sense for reasons I just explained. At worst IMO, he might not be dead, and is in custody, enjoying the hospitality of Gitmo.

Im betting on dead though, and that it happened the other day with a double tap.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by Texas f-150

so as an American, this forum is the only place i have to talk to aussies, and i like to hear opinions from other countries on certain key issues. So since this is the bar, and this is something i would talk about in a bar, what do yall think of the whole "killing osama" story, as an american and friend of several 911 first responders and heroes, id like to say i dont belive the story, seeing as how the man was dying of kidney failure and marfan disease 15 years ago, and how madaline albright in 2003 said they had his body on ice and would roll him out at a "politically expedient moment". What do you aussies think. And i will apologize now for ****ing anyone off with it, although you guys may be able to talk about it with out getting mad, as australia hasnt had to live under the "post 911" american sentiment.

You must be in a minority to say those sorts of things!

Its funny how in 2006 a pakistani newspaper wrote that he had died of Typhoid while living in Pakistanand he was buried in the small village where he lived! The Saudi Military also some 6months later had also agreed that he was dead and buried. (Simple google search will reveal the articles). The rest of the world didnt buy it because there was "no evidence".

But yes it was a well known fact he needed a transplant.... so if he managed to live this long, where did he get this transplant from?

We are now to believe he is dead again, with no evidence to show it.
However one interesting fact with the raid is the crashed Blackhawk wasnt no ordinary Blackhawk. The tail boom and rotor has raised eyebrows all over the military and aviation world. No one has ever seen this design before. So the question now is, where did the funding come from for this new design? The remains of the main rotor hub in the compound matches that of the Blackhawk however....

[Tribal]

9/11 has simply been a key event that appears to have justified everything the US has done since, an event that I believe the US itself had a hand in - as well as polarizing the rest of the world into action that has cost billions of dollars and thousands of lives - for what?

I also find it hard to believe much of what is displayed and reported by the world media due to the absence of any real facts.

[MAGPIE]

What is it with Americans and conspiracy theories

Do you guys have too much time on your hands or what.


I believe they got him, good on them & good ridance to a scumbag of epic proportions

[SEZ213]

There has always been questions in my mind regarding the legitimacy of any of the claims, from either country...It does amaze me how they have DNA proof, however, I'm not quite sure where they got the matching DNA from, unless of course he'd been caught before, and which case, why did it take 10 years for the game of hide and seek to be over? (I must admit I avoid the media hype...so he may have been caught previously, and I've just never heard about it).

That's about all I've got to say that isn't controversial and won't cause this thread to be canned by about 8:30...

It doesn't matter what the event is, there will always be skeptics, however, when you go back through history - more than a few things are questionable about the whole matter, and many others for that matter.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

...It does amaze me how they have DNA proof, however, I'm not quite sure where they got the matching DNA from, unless of course he'd been caught before....

Probably in the same way they can identify the DNA of a dead soldier from WW1 dug up two months ago in a paddock in France.....from a living relative....basic stuff (in DNA terms)....

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Probably in the same way they can identify the DNA of a dead soldier from WW1 dug up two months ago in a paddock in France.....from a living relative....basic stuff (in DNA terms)....

I understand they can use relatives, but wouldn't they need both the son/daughter and mother to make an accurate match or is it difinitive enough with only one person? (I'm a little vague on the exact science of it...never really had to use it...)

And doesn't that kind of testing take a while, ergo, more than 3 days? The DNA test for kidney diseases takes up to 6 months to get results back from overseas...and it's sent to Switzerland, or does identity take a little less time than that?

Interesting link Texas...certainly gets the brain ticking - whistle blower or conspiracy theorist...? Which one is he?

[DBourne]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

And doesn't that kind of testing take a while, ergo, more than 3 days? The DNA test for kidney diseases takes up to 6 months to get results back from overseas...and it's sent to Switzerland, or does identity take a little less time than that?

Don't forget, CSI Miami's finest would of been on the case.. that or Dr House.

My opinion is that I don't really care. I'm not saying I would invite OBL over for dinner and a beer, but really what is the significance of him being killed?

He is at the top of the organisation, not the one actually DOING the acts, his death will only inspire others who hate the western world, so yes you got rid of 1 man, but have probably inspired and fuelled a lot more.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by SgtBourne

Don't forget, CSI Miami's finest would of been on the case.. that or Dr House.

My opinion is that I don't really care. I'm not saying I would invite OBL over for dinner and a beer, but really what is the significance of him being killed?

He is at the top of the organisation, not the one actually DOING the acts, his death will only inspire others who hate the western world, so yes you got rid of 1 man, but have probably inspired and fuelled a lot more.

That's about it.
The fact is no one really wanted to kill Hitler any road did they why ? because then they would have to deal with some other nut that they would have less chance to be able to predict what he would do. upsetting the apple cart like.
Now we don't know what the next idiot extremist and the lengths he would go to.
The leader of the USA is just a idiot.

[dansedgli]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Probably in the same way they can identify the DNA of a dead soldier from WW1 dug up two months ago in a paddock in France.....from a living relative....basic stuff (in DNA terms)....

Osama's sister died of cancer in the states not long ago. They used her DNA to match his.

Why would the government of '03 hide Osama for political convenience then wait until someone else was in office rather than the using it to keep the president at the time in charge?

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by dansedgli

Osama's sister died of cancer in the states not long ago. They used her DNA to match his.

Yep, that'll do it as well.....

[Texas f-150]

good commentary so far, staying civil. Not all americans are into conspiracy theories, most are at a baseball game or watching american idol But there seems to be alot of us who dont belive the story for various reasons. here's a clip from an article found here: http://www.prisonplanet.com/top-us-g...alse-flag.html

Top US government insider Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik, a man who held numerous different influential positions under three different Presidents and still works with the Defense Department, shockingly told The Alex Jones Show yesterday that Osama Bin Laden died in 2001 and that he was prepared to testify in front of a grand jury how a top general told him directly that 9/11 was a false flag inside job.

Pieczenik cannot be dismissed as a “conspiracy theorist”. He served as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under three different administrations, Nixon, Ford and Carter, while also working under Reagan and Bush senior, and still works as a consultant for the Department of Defense. A former US Navy Captain, Pieczenik achieved two prestigious Harry C. Solomon Awards at the Harvard Medical School as he simultaneously completed a PhD at MIT.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Texas f-150

good commentary so far, staying civil. Not all americans are into conspiracy theories, most are at a baseball game or watching american idol But there seems to be alot of us who dont belive the story for various reasons. here's a clip from an article found here: http://www.prisonplanet.com/top-us-g...alse-flag.html

Very dangerous link.

I expect this mans mental health has deteriorated since his service, and I'd expect the radio host to come to that realization, eventually.

Odd though, that Binnie, in the CIA released video - is viewing an old small CRT TV. Also not hard to determine what satellite his white dish was aligned, and whether the LNB was both TX and RX, or simply RX.

[Texas f-150]

im glad no one is yelling at each other. after this thread lets have a texas/oz stereotype thread for a little fun. ive got to go feed my horse

[Texas f-150]

or maybe a mad max quote-a-thon.

[Fireblade]

Interesting, goes with what some of us in here think.

I'm not 100% either way but something is suspect with the whole deal in the last 10 years.

[Road Games]

Not another one ?

[cs123]

F-150, can you elaborate on the post 9/11 sentiment comment.
Are you talking domestic or international?

[Texas f-150]

Originally Posted by cs123

F-150, can you elaborate on the post 9/11 sentiment comment.
Are you talking domestic or international?

both but mainly the domestic policy, and the general atmosphere over here is "well its a post 911 world, so you need to give up your rights" and now its turned to americans being the suspects, when ever we have a democrat , the enemy is domestic terror: clinton with right wing extremist during the 90's republicans its a foreign enemy: the ruskys and now the muslims under bush , but now its back to domestic terrorism, heres a report from the missouri branch of the terror threat fusion center system that lists supporters of congressman ron paul and bob barr, as potential terrorist

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13290698/T...eport-20Feb09-

basically what i meant by that is we put up with these things because of 911 where we otherwise would not.

[sleek7]

Have always been sceptical of US government stuff since 9/11.
Do I think the whole story is true? No i don't, I believe - A. he died years ago or B. they may perhaps even have him alive and faked his death?
Either way, just seems very suspicious.

[Gobes32]

I get the impression that he was being protected by the Pakistani government? If that is true then it will open up a whole new can of worms. The US does not want to find itself in a war with the whole Middle East?

[Fireblade]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I get the impression that he was being protected by the Pakistani government? If that is true then it will open up a whole new can of worms. The US does not want to find itself in a war with the whole Middle East?

I think the US may have already fired the first barrage in this by crossing into Pakistan and making the raid without permission from Pakistan, I agree that Osama should have been hunted and caught or killed, either it didn't bother me, but at what cost to world peace, you can't just cross into others jurisdiction without permission regardless of who you are as this undermines a soverign nations authority.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by F6 FOON

I think the US may have already fired the first barrage in this by crossing into Pakistan and making the raid without permission from Pakistan, I agree that Osama should have been hunted and caught or killed, either it didn't bother me, but at what cost to world peace, you can't just cross into others jurisdiction without permission regardless of who you are as this undermines a soverign nations authority.

That is my biggest fear, the US entering into a war with Pakistan, etc.

With no intention of sarcasm whatsoever, seriously, can't we all just get along? Why all the hatred towards "western culture"?

[irish2]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Why all the hatred towards "western culture"?

You can only kick sand in someones face for so long...

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by F6 FOON

I think the US may have already fired the first barrage in this by crossing into Pakistan and making the raid without permission from Pakistan, I agree that Osama should have been hunted and caught or killed, either it didn't bother me, but at what cost to world peace, you can't just cross into others jurisdiction without permission regardless of who you are as this undermines a soverign nations authority.

The USA has been flying armed drones into Pakistan for many years and killing "suspects" without Pakistans permission....

[Fireblade]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

The USA has been flying armed drones into Pakistan for many years and killing "suspects" without Pakistans permission....

Doesn't make it right, the end doesn't justify the means.

[glavas]

its funny because the usa is in about 14 trillion dollars of debt. to many people to many rights and to much ignorance

[glavas]

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Texas f-150

so as an American, this forum is the only place i have to talk to aussies, and i like to hear opinions from other countries on certain key issues. So since this is the bar, and this is something i would talk about in a bar, what do yall think of the whole "killing osama" story, as an american and friend of several 911 first responders and heroes, id like to say i dont belive the story, seeing as how the man was dying of kidney failure and marfan disease 15 years ago, and how madaline albright in 2003 said they had his body on ice and would roll him out at a "politically expedient moment". What do you aussies think. And i will apologize now for ****ing anyone off with it, although you guys may be able to talk about it with out getting mad, as australia hasnt had to live under the "post 911" american sentiment.

IMO:

Was he dying from illness, perhaps. But how credible was the info to start with? Could have been propaganda to 'weaken' the enemy.

Is he dead? You bet. Imagine the embarrassment for the US should he emerge alive and well after his sea burial?

Was it a 'capture or kill' mission? Don't think so. If he were alive and in US custody it would give the others leverage to get him back. He would be more dangerous alive than dead.

Did he get help / protection from the locals / Government? Don't think so. The people there are extremely poor and it is very difficult to get out. The bounty and benefits offered by the US would have tipped many into spilling the beans. I think you could have counted the people who knew where he was outside of his compound on one hand.

Remember, the Bin Laden family was extremely wealthy and had a lot of clout, which is probably why the 'worlds most wanted man' took 10 years to locate.

That's my thoughts on the matter.