TAS crossover crash, utterly preventable!

Keepleft · 25-02-2006, 11:32 PM

I've seen some video footage of this nasty one. "The car" crossed over a slight-raised median just after a length of steel W- beam guardrail. Looking at the scene, that the remainder of this roads median is not FULLY divided by wire-rope, or a continuation of the guardrail is simply in my view actionable negligence. Frankly, the road cries out for barrier.

The family of those killed, and parties injured, - are advised to seek the services of a good legal team with the view this outcome NOT happen again. The issue of nervous-shock as highlighted by the High Court comes into play.

The story: An example of how our second rate engineering road design guidleines continue to fail us. A wire-rope barrier can cost 'supply', as little as $35/metre.

THREE teenagers and two women, including a mother and daughter, are believed to have died in a road smash on their way to a junior basketball game in Tasmania's north.

The small community of Circular Head, in the state's northwest, is in shock following news five local women died in the three-car accident which left a sixth woman in a critical condition.

It is believed the deceased are three teenagers and two women, including a mother and daughter. Police confirmed the women were aged from their teens to their 30s.

The accident happened on the Bass Highway in Round Hill, about 8.30am (AEDT) today.

It is believed the car in which the young women were travelling crossed a concrete median strip on the four-lane highway and collided with a four wheel drive vehicle.

The female driver of the four wheel drive was taken to North West Regional Hospital in Burnie Hospital in a critical condition.

A third car was slightly damaged in the collision. Circular Head Mayor Ross Hine described the accident as devastating.

"It's a tragic loss of young life," he said.

AND later in the article: The road was in good condition and there was only a very gradual curve at the section where the accident happened, Insp Wynwood said.

ON the contrary Inspector, the road STANDARD is ACTIONABLE. The CURVE is irrelevant, it IS a major VERY NARROW-MEDIAN road without anywhere near enough BARRIER protection. I hope such people holding such view NEVER design roads.

But Mr Quilliam said he believed work would need to be done on that section of road.

This man has got that bit right, well gee Fred!

"It is a difficult road, it seems to have a bad lean on it and I've been told other people have struggled on that road over a long period of time."

A "difficult" road? Well golly gee wizz! See the Inspector above. IF you have been told by people of "ISSUES", then they should have, or will have been raised through the proper channels. I see a SEVERE failing in a 'duty of care', neigh again, NEGLIGENCE. Christ almighty, utterly hopeless!!

Story continues, see link or Google/Yahoo etc.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117....html?from=rss

**Polyal** · 25-02-2006, 11:34 PM

mate ive been on that bit of road aswell....and can easily see how ti happen

Bloody hell we even have roped barriers for some corners let alone a major bit of road!

Pedro · 25-02-2006, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keepleft

[B]I've seen some video footage of this nasty one. "The car" crossed over a slight-raised median just after a length of steel W- beam guardrail. Looking at the scene, that the remainder of this roads median was not FULLY divided by wire-rope or a continuation of the guardrail is simply in my view actionable negligence. Frankly, the road cries out for barrier.
[/url]

Meanwhile, as innocents die, the polititions (filth) carp on about speed cameras being the answer etc.

Keepleft · 26-02-2006, 12:26 AM

Yes, and another operationally similar (today):

A 19-year-old motorcyclist was killed late today when he lost control and collided with oncoming traffic.

Police say the man was riding on the Nepean Highway at Mornington, in the state's south, when the accident occurred just after 5pm (AEDT).

"The rider crossed the centre median strip and was struck by two vehicles travelling in the opposite direction," Senior Constable Julie-Anne Newman said today.

The rider, who lived in nearby Somerville, died at the crash scene.

**Falcon Coupe** · 26-02-2006, 12:27 AM

Wire rope barriers tear motorcyclists to bits, they are dangerous and sholud not be used.

Keepleft · 26-02-2006, 12:29 AM

I advocate closely with the UK Highway's Agency, in 32 years of install to the MEDIANS of the UK motorway netweork we have had yet to have a single incidence of this. The UK motorcyclists - advocate the barrier for MEDIANS but have 'some reservations' to its use to the SIDE of roads.

The cheese-cutter effect is yet to be recognised. Do NOT make the IGNORANT mistake of thinking steel W beam is any better, IT IS NOT, but has 'some uses, as does jersey.

W-beam is BANNED in over 7 US states, wire-rope is used.

I refer here the Brifen barrier.

http://www.brifen.co.uk/index2.html

http://www.brifenusa.com/

See the galleries/vids etc

XR Martin · 26-02-2006, 02:32 AM

It doesnt matter what there is, if your a motorcyclist and you come off you bike at speed, hitting anything will most likely turn you into a squid. Conventional guard rail, wire rope, concrete barrier, trees, oncoming traffic.... etc etc.
Its not the fall, its the sudden stop.

Des · 26-02-2006, 03:03 AM

Every stretch of 70+ zoned dual carriageway that is separated by a median needs to have a barrier of some kind. Mate of mine in a semi lost it avoiding a couple of idiots involved in a tailgating accident, clipped the rear of one and slide across the wet (dew covered grass) median on the M5 in Sydney. At the point involved it would be about 30+ metres across, has no barriers and because of the dew was like oiled lino. He was travelling at approx. 80 km/h, city bound, bobtail (sans trailer if you don't know what I mean). He drives an old International single drive so not overly heavy.
Luckily the cars travelling outbound saw him coming and took avoiding action and they managed to miss him as he slid to a stop against the bank after crossing both outbound lanes....
I don't need to tell you a truck does to a car in a head on.

Pedro · 26-02-2006, 07:34 AM

I think Falcon Coupe was not suggesting the slicing effect of the wire ... rather that the upright H beam support posts could cut up motor cyclists and this seems a reasonable assumtion.

Ghiadude · 26-02-2006, 09:04 AM

gee a road that isnt properly constructed causing innocent lives to be lost..... better put a speed camera there....ho hum

ltd · 26-02-2006, 09:21 AM

MAte, I have attended a number of accidents when previously in the fire brigade, and I can tell you; there is not one damn thing that a motorcyclist can hit that won't injure him/her. I've seen a motorcyclist with his leg ripped off because he slid into a street sign.

It is simple physics. Decelerate in fractions of seconds and the force will be huge. Decelerate slowly and the force will be much less. Try a simple experiment. Apply the brake as normal from 60k an hour, you'll find minimal lateral force. Now try hitting a brick wall at 60km/h; the lateral force was much greater wasn't it? D'oh!!

W barriers are good but they are only as good as the spacing of the H beams, some have 300mm centres on tight bends and yet some have up to 1200mm centres. A car weighing close to 2 tonne will easily find a way through these if it hits it hard enough. My personal thoughts are that the wire rope (we went to some accidents on the m4) has a much greater capacity to arrest a wayward car than an W barrier, as the rope has great torsional strength however has the ability to slow the impact down resulting in less injuries. In fact, I don't know of any cases where the wire rope barrier has failed to do its job.

Yet we still got revenue errmm, speed cameras.

Aeron · 26-02-2006, 09:39 AM

How about we put barriers at the side of ever road and lower speed limits to 30Km/h everywhere and wrap our selves in cotton wool. OR, we can drive to our capabilities. If a road is "difficult", how about we slow down, instead of blaming car accidents on road authorities all the time. I’m sick of all this crap where if some one fuks up, its someone else’s fault. If the driver looses control of the car then they are responsible.

Keepleft · 26-02-2006, 09:39 AM

Pedro- and THAT is one of the concerns raised by motorcyclists, but in reality it is simply not an actual outcome in mechanics or in coronials to date. Look carefully at those gallery links, note the W beam support posts, rem a 'hard edge'- the U.

Note there are TWO wire-rope brands, one has been around a long time, the other - not so.

I, and I think we; can accept motorcyclists as being 'amongst' THE most vulnerable road user groups, after pedestrians, cyclists, horses and Amish. When their not being run off the road by Mr and Mrs Wilson, or knocked off their bike by a young Mahmood Kubulah they are crashing by their own actions. Speed is a problem, particularly so owing their unprotected nature in a crash outcome.

Okay, leather is nice, and some like it for sexual whipping reasons, but it can only help to-a-degree in a crash. It is also excellent for holding together an otherwise crushed body. Coronial stuff!

The speed problem does not relate so much to that group "that grows old disgracefully", or the so described "outlaw" groups, rather the 'unaligned'? racer boy type, with this group, we have problems here in NSW on the Pacific Highway between Hornsby and Gosford where they keep crash testing trees and gutters, but of course such actions not limited to that road.

QLD recognises this issue of speed and is one of the reasons why they are serious in using radio-frequency technology to identifiy and target motorcycle 'speed' but are looking at so via a national approach, perhaps via the ADR process, or via a state number plate technology outcome.

Wire rope barrier cannot, or should not be used where the median is particularly narrow, you must allow for deflection in its design. Now, it might well be that this latest TAS crash median is too narrow for it, I note it's 'paved' shoulders are 1.0m each and the median looks in the order 1 - 1.5m. If wire rope was to be used it'd have to be 4 strand model type, but I'd suggest they might also use the W-beam (guardrail) in part.

Registered M/C's represent about 2.2% of total registrations and lets say 10% of all travel when offset against the majority of registrations, cars, trucks and monkeys. We must cater for the 'whole of traffic' whilst having due regard for that small minority like my bike riding ugly paramedic brother, who demands wire-rope, he keeps attending the dead.

Australian traffic authorities have been relying on old US methodology that states to the effect that for every 10 cars that will enter a median (where it is XX wide), nine will recover, whilst the other will cross and may or may not impact oncoming traffic.

TERRIBLE ODDS! We need to stop worshipping second rate standards.

I on the other hand desire the quality of road building required design that we have in EU, where EVERY single motorway - REGARDLESS how wide the median might become, - ALWAYS has a median barrier. My UK chap, head of GB road safety parapet told me thus 'prior to Brifen we've had trucks unable to stop even when the median goes out to 100 metres, these are the sort of roads where you might have an underpass for livestock so they can graze in the middle (where normal star-post fencing applies), to that extent, - once the Brifen was installed we've not had a SINGLE crossover OR fatility attributed to it in 32 years of use, the Swedes operate on similar practice'.

NOW, I am sure EBs actually a very nice bloke, but he was dead set off track on this.

I'll again say the state of TAS has been negligent here, it will be for the courts to apportion that blame and punitive damages made, or not. But understand, the section of road *will* get that barrier, tis just a pity they don't mind knocking off a few shielas and motocyclists in order to get it!

Standards must be changed so that ALL divided roads with limits above 60km/h have barrier. The stuff is very very cheap cheap cheap! Hell, even the crash people at Monash push this HARD.

EDManual · 26-02-2006, 11:40 AM

Ive seen the aftermath of trucks driving straight over wire barriers, while out of control, not deliberatly. The sure dont stop trucks......

Keepleft · 26-02-2006, 11:53 AM

See the galleries in the original links, particularly the Brifen USA link (and the AUS), observe closely.

We have not achieved a cross over in NSW yet with a truck with WRSB, but do get guardrail crushed, jersey 'jumped' or 'punched'. Note my UK Highway's Agency statement above.

YES, the WRSB's can be damaged *much*, replacment is easy and yes, a trucks trailer/dog will stop atop the (now) flattened ropes, but 'see' where it sits.

Always the freaky crashes, these are interesting!

Here is another product link:
http://www.ingalcivil.com.au/products.php

OT
Ref to EB in my posts above is meant as Falc-Coupe, apologies.

Mmm ANOTHER TAS event:
February 10, 2006

A WOMAN died when the car she was travelling in and another vehicle collided on a wet road in Tasmania's south-east, police said.

Tasmania Police said the crash occurred on the Midlands Highway at Pontville, near Hobart, about 7.45pm (AEDT) yesterday.

Constable Todd Carver said the driver of a white Holden Commodore lost control of his car, which crossed to the wrong side of the highway.

He said it slid sideways until it collided with an oncoming silver Holden Rodeo four-wheel drive ute.

The woman, a passenger in the Commodore, died at the scene, while the Commodore driver and the occupants of the Rodeo were taken to hospital in stable conditions.

"At the time of the crash it was raining, the road was wet," Constable Carver said.

AND in relation to my post further above where I mention the vulnerability of motocyclists generally, this event:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...5E1702,00.html

AND how to build a proper motorway network: Notice the picture of the tunnels WITH a FULL break-down lane.
http://www.autobahn17.de/fotos/bild22/index.html

crYnOid · 26-02-2006, 01:42 PM

Having driven the road in question many times it is very twisty with a 100kph limit. Keep in mind that it is perfectly drivable at 100kph in the dry, but in the wet some corners can get a little hairy. BUT you have to be concentrating 100% at all times as corners can catch you out by either coming up faster than you expect or tightening as you go through the corner. The camber in some spots is also pretty dodgy.

As for barriers, well, you can drive from a short way out of Hobart (Granton 15km maybe) to about 10km out of Launceston almost all the way at 110kph and there ISN'T ONE single barrier seperating the opposing lanes for the entire length of the midlands highway (approx.150km) and the road in some corners are in much worse condition than the one that the accident happen on. The 100km drive from Launceston to Devonport has about 15km that is divided but the 45km from Devonport to Burnie (where this crash happened) is almost all divided (or will be soon once the new part is complete). And when it comes to shoulders we are lucky to be granted 30cm on major highways and 5cm on minor highway. Basically with the crash outside of burnie the person who crossed to the other side of the road found a hole in the wall. Someone will probably get their *** kicked for that, and hopefully the major tassie highways that seem to be getting busier and busier, will get a badly needed upgrade.

Keepleft, on the pontville crash I have nfi how that person could pull that crash off if they were at the speed limit. As it was in a 70kph zone which in my opinion is a little slow for that area but i'm pretty sure I could guess what happen. The out of control car was coming down the hill at pontville (70kph zone) and if you don't watch you speed you can get up a good bit of speed over the limit by just rolling. There is a bridge on a slight corner at the bottem of the hill which I believe is where the accident happened. I expect the loss of control happen due to gaining a fair bit of speed down that hill and then trying to slow down in a hurry to take the fairly narrow bridge (two lane, no shoulder).

tex · 26-02-2006, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tx3dude

gee a road that isnt properly constructed causing innocent lives to be lost..... better put a speed camera there....ho hum

The state of Tas's roads on the whole is not what most from major centres on the big land are used to.

Many, many people who visit Tas are shocked by the size (width) of our highways, especially when you consider the size of the vehicles that use them, B doubles etc. Many (most) of our highways have narrow, steep, gravel shoulders that you would swear have been designed TO ENSURE OVER CORRECTION in the event a vehicle puts a wheel onto them.

Sadly (tragically) a lot of lives are lost through vehicle roll over (not just log trucks) but also head on collisions......... I'm sure a high percentage are due to them going onto the roads shoulder in the first instance, resulting in major over correction.

The local gummit will react (as they do in each and every case of vehicular caused death in Tas) with a review of speed limit, additional resources allocated to speed detection, and more advertisements on TV - cause someone told the gummit that these worked (?)

Address the state of the roads ? .... well that would be a pro active step wouldn't it, but one the state Gummit remains fairly committed to ignoring / avoiding on the whole.

Ironically lot of work has taken place, and continues on the very stretch of highway that most recently claimed more young lives. It is arguably the major freight route in this state ! But, it truely is a drop in the ocean if you look at Tas's road network overall.

Why do so many cars in Taga Tas fall off the road. Well ofcourse it's speed related, often wet, and driver overexeburance / inexperience, but the underlying fact remains that these roads, and they are not that far removed from all the other roads in Tas, are very challenging, and pose a greater risk of death due to their design and construction. And topography.

And I spose in order to mitigate the risks associated with this, down come the speed limits as a first reaction. And it's sometimes needed, there is no doubting this.

Driver training. Too hard.

Driver education. Put another lame ad on tele.

Fix the roads. Too expensive.

Thats my grumble for the arvo !

sfr rob · 26-02-2006, 03:06 PM

so ... can i see the video footage? i love watching stacks like that

Wokkas · 26-02-2006, 03:16 PM

Roads are never going to be safe, no matter how much money, resources and research you pour into it. This site was one of literally millions of dangerous road patches in the country, it's only been brought to our attention because of tradgedy.
It's amazing how some of the safest areas of roads can host some of the most horrific accidents, while some of the hairyist areas remain crash free.

Add your crash barriers, your extra lighting, your driver training, your safer cars- it's not going to change anything.

And why would pollies spend more money on roads when they can spend it on thiers ИИИИtail parties, travelling allowances and chueffered cars? We winge about it (ИИИИ, I've been moaning about it for 52 years), and it disgusts us, but what do we do to stop it?? We still vote for them.

And when something does happen, yeah, let's sue somebody. That'll solve all the problems and bring our loved ones back.

$35 per meter would barely cover the galvanising costs for wire barriers. Wire barriers are the last thing that worries me when I go riding. In the last 2 years wire and steel barriers have prevented 3 of my rider mates flying off cliffs.

Ghiadude · 26-02-2006, 04:47 PM

Quote:

The state of Tas's roads on the whole is not what most from major centres on the big land are used to.

Many, many people who visit Tas are shocked by the size (width) of our highways, especially when you consider the size of the vehicles that use them, B doubles etc. Many (most) of our highways have narrow, steep, gravel shoulders that you would swear have been designed TO ENSURE OVER CORRECTION in the event a vehicle puts a wheel onto them.

Sadly (tragically) a lot of lives are lost through vehicle roll over (not just log trucks) but also head on collisions......... I'm sure a high percentage are due to them going onto the roads shoulder in the first instance, resulting in major over correction.

The local gummit will react (as they do in each and every case of vehicular caused death in Tas) with a review of speed limit, additional resources allocated to speed detection, and more advertisements on TV - cause someone told the gummit that these worked (?)

Address the state of the roads ? .... well that would be a pro active step wouldn't it, but one the state Gummit remains fairly committed to ignoring / avoiding on the whole.

Ironically lot of work has taken place, and continues on the very stretch of highway that most recently claimed more young lives. It is arguably the major freight route in this state ! But, it truely is a drop in the ocean if you look at Tas's road network overall.

Why do so many cars in Taga Tas fall off the road. Well ofcourse it's speed related, often wet, and driver overexeburance / inexperience, but the underlying fact remains that these roads, and they are not that far removed from all the other roads in Tas, are very challenging, and pose a greater risk of death due to their design and construction. And topography.

And I spose in order to mitigate the risks associated with this, down come the speed limits as a first reaction. And it's sometimes needed, there is no doubting this.

Driver training. Too hard.

Driver education. Put another lame ad on tele.

Fix the roads. Too expensive.

Thats my grumble for the arvo !

wow!
your roads sound even shИИИИitier than ours!!! drive safe TEX and remember as long as you dont break the speed limit everything will be ok.

Keepleft · 26-02-2006, 05:35 PM

crYnOid: -

I'd be looking at the tire inflation pressures, and tread. Rem - it was reportedly heavy rain the the time. Many issues I'd have loved to study.

sfr_Rob: - Video via SkyNews, perhaps on local terrestrial. See pics online too.

Wokkas: - "Roads" are built to primarily a National Standard or Practice (AUSROADS). Here then are adopted into the states typically as "MUTCD's, an adoption of the Americanisim 'Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices', and otherwise as 'Road Design Guidelines'.

There is nothing stopping a state *mandating* median barrier on all NEW divided roads and to adopt a program for those existing.

The Swedes have been suggesting this even for undivided by median highways, particularly those bearing two lanes, in this case the left lane will indeed be particularly safe..

My figure for the $35/linnear metre is source pricing from one of the two such providers, and so stated for a particularly long length contract (57 kilometers), indeed they said they *could* offer even less - if the length required was even greater.

Generally: - Make no mistake, 'yes' of course driver's are ultimately responsible for their actions, but as the High Court has found over the years with the modernisation of the 'highway rule' which HAD given "the State" effective immunity from litigation-prosecution, it is now recognised that sometimes the State (and indeed, yes Local Government) is indeed at 'contributory' fault, 'sometimes'. This depends on the circumstances of the event/s.

If you have a road that carries grazing COWS, HAVE the local Council install COW warning signs advising driver's of such. It explains why I have had Lake Macquarie City Council install ROO warning signs, both to warn, and to reduce potential litigation!.

An example of litigation ats the state - is the Cubbon case here in NSW.

Now, in this TAS example, the authorities have been aware of these newish wire-rope systems on our roads, its relative cheap cost and overall benefit AND ADVOCACY of it for all road users for about 8 or so years domestically.

Those employed within the jurisdictional agencies I argue,- often seek to 'reduce' the Agencies outgoing cost by 'restricting' their 'mandatory placement criteria to medians with less than 10 metres. A lousy parameter.

Note my UK group doing this at even 100 metres.

In NSW - we have the newish Buladelah-Cooloolongook Pacific Highway section unbarriered. I have requested barrier along this 22 kilometre stretch via then Minister Scully and through my usual RTA nagging. Here, the median unpaved is just 8.0 metres wide, and then an additional 1.0 metre, - which takes into account the two 0.5 metre right-lane paved shoulders. All up, this result is hideously dangerous on an otherwise excellent road.

NOW, RTA have been reviewing this practice (guideline) and I will need to check up on it. I do know the jurisdictions are furthering the use of median barriers, they do need to speed that more, get those contracts out and running.

I am personally conviced that individuals working in such agencies, that make such poor requirement should perhaps one day face the courts personally, such is the dim view that I take of incompetence.

If you think you are getting a lousy roads deal ladies and gentlemen, be assured "YOU ARE", sadly this will continue for some time.

The STATES are mismanaging much of the road construction AND maintenance expenditure, regardless its source. That said, there are some damned good progressive people employed, both engineers and administration. These agencies are simply far too big and overweight, red tape rules and is doing so at the cost of human lives.

It would be prudent to review the process of having private companies 'contracted' to maintain lengths of roads, sometimes so contracted for years. Issues of agency and service provider interaction come into play. Who does what and when??

I'll say again, the TAS folk should seek determined legal advice. The end desired outcome is that we avoid this situation again, you have seen that 'complaints' have been made earlier, meaning they will have been logged, it would be prudent to pehaps seek any and all 'maintenance work records for the road'.

A very thorough, very determined study of all facts is needed.

The agencies are required to accept that, 'particularly untrained' driver's such as we in Australia WILL and do make human mistakes, or a whole series of them and 'events'. So that where there is a median-strip, divide it by barrier so that the next group of 5 women in say a Barina can then instead impact the wire-rope, AND where their car will remain trapped till the arrival of police, - who can then action the driver for her driving errors and mistakes.

Sure is better than killing them.

tex · 26-02-2006, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tx3dude

wow!
your roads sound even shИИИИitier than ours!!! drive safe TEX and remember as long as you dont break the speed limit everything will be ok.

So they educate us...................

ltd · 27-02-2006, 07:59 AM

Keep left, I agree with you regarding the contributing factors to the accident. I also agree with you regarding the Road Tax Authority err, RTA. At the moment it is pure unadulterated beauracracy gone mad and whilst there would seemingly be some very clever people there, there is equally a number of government lackies and career public servants interested in covering their own ***** instead of actually doing something decent.
Sparkles Scully is a joke and all you'll get out of him is the promise of a taxpayer funded government enquiry. They already know the result of said enquiry which will be to install a speed camera at the site on the pacific highway, or they will install several.

The biggest problem facing NSW is the fact that people get so frustrated by their calls for action being thwarted by a government whose only remedy for roads is to put more restrictions upon the general public.
This way Sparkles and co get to keep their miniscule budget for other ridiculous projects and not for the unglamorous road upgrades.
An example is the ridiculous 3 year and growing enquiry into flashing lights at school zones where each new roads minister gives it the same "we're waiting for results of said enquiry" spin - and nothing is done.

NSW labour has a bad record with roads, all they have succeeded in doing is raising revenue through faulty dubious cameras at I guess almost the same rate as the proliferation of poker machines in pubs. Quite frankly I think the problems started with that frog looking rockspider Bob Carr; where the only thing that they could competantly organise was the junkets for mp's.

People like yourself should be applauded for trying to make the roads safer however as NSW is broke sadly you're beating your head against a brick wall in any attempt to get funding for road improvements.

Des · 27-02-2006, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

This way Sparkles and co get to keep their miniscule budget for other ridiculous projects and not for the unglamorous road upgrades.
An example is the ridiculous 3 year and growing enquiry into flashing lights at school zones where each new roads minister gives it the same "we're waiting for results of said enquiry" spin - and nothing is done.

Now don't be a silly sausage ltd! Unglamorous road upgrades are best left to the private sector as thay have all the equipment (after the government sold all theirs). The government doesn't have to pay a cent then as the private sector can then charge the general public a small fee for use of these roads, which by the way, are held in the planning stages so long by red-tape that said roads are redundant and under-laned by the time they are finished!
Besides, flashing lights (that use solar power) cost money, greed cameras make money. Replacement bulbs are very expensive you know!

outback_ute · 27-02-2006, 09:00 AM

I think there is a precedent for negligence in cases like this, a few years ago there was a truck crash on the South Gippsland Hwy near Koo Wee Rup and it eventuated that Vicroads had been warned about the road surface which became very slippery in even light rain, with several crashes having occurred. However the issue had never been followed up on even though under their own "system" they should have. I think it was a Coroner's investigation that was very critical of Vicroads.

ltd · 27-02-2006, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Des

Now don't be a silly sausage ltd! Unglamorous road upgrades are best left to the private sector as thay have all the equipment (after the government sold all theirs). The government doesn't have to pay a cent then as the private sector can then charge the general public a small fee for use of these roads, which by the way, are held in the planning stages so long by red-tape that said roads are redundant and under-laned by the time they are finished!
Besides, flashing lights (that use solar power) cost money, greed cameras make money. Replacement bulbs are very expensive you know!

Well said, can't argue with that. After all, private companies are essentially not for profit organisations who would never charge any more than the cost to build the roads would they. Maybe they could get Macquarie cough cough kickback, kickback cough cough to fund it for them.

"Greed cameras" ha ha ha ha.

As for solar power, well, Cost-ya is working on a new form of taxation for the sun.

ltd · 27-02-2006, 09:41 AM

3 cents per joule per square meter used in and around the home. Meaning the average house block of 100 square meters pays $20,000 a year.
"but minister, most blocks of land are bigger than 100 square meters";
"Ah, well the valuer general who works out the land tax assures us that this is the average sized home, and he's independant you know, he would never artificially hike up the value of properties for governments benefit."
"And what say you premier?"
"We're gonna catch these thugs and grubs, grubs and thugs and punks, and lock them up"
"But what about the fact that you have only arrested caucasian males, and not one of the other side who were responsible for over 20 million dollars of damage?"
"Look, I said I'm getting grubs and thugs, and locking them up. This has nothing to do with the branch stacking in my electorate of Lakemba, I don't favour any one community over the infedels - err, other."

Welcome to Spin City AKA NSW

max^power · 27-02-2006, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Yes, and another operationally similar (today):

A 19-year-old motorcyclist was killed late today when he lost control and collided with oncoming traffic.

Police say the man was riding on the Nepean Highway at Mornington, in the state's south, when the accident occurred just after 5pm (AEDT).

"The rider crossed the centre median strip and was struck by two vehicles travelling in the opposite direction," Senior Constable Julie-Anne Newman said today.

The rider, who lived in nearby Somerville, died at the crash scene.

My sister and her son saw the dead biker on the road. very sad, as an ex road rider i feel for the families, and the people involved.

AnthonyQLD · 27-02-2006, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Wire rope barriers tear motorcyclists to bits, they are dangerous and sholud not be used.

I cant agree more with that

Des · 27-02-2006, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

3 cents per joule per square meter used in and around the home. Meaning the average house block of 100 square meters pays $20,000 a year.
"but minister, most blocks of land are bigger than 100 square meters";
"Ah, well the valuer general who works out the land tax assures us that this is the average sized home, and he's independant you know, he would never artificially hike up the value of properties for governments benefit."
"And what say you premier?"
"We're gonna catch these thugs and grubs, grubs and thugs and punks, and lock them up"
"But what about the fact that you have only arrested caucasian males, and not one of the other side who were responsible for over 20 million dollars of damage?"
"Look, I said I'm getting grubs and thugs, and locking them up. This has nothing to do with the branch stacking in my electorate of Lakemba, I don't favour any one community over the infedels - err, other."

Welcome to Spin City AKA NSW

You and I are on the same wavelength.