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#1 | ||
Call me dirt... Joe Dirt
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Back in Perth for good
Posts: 5,302
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My current daily-driver (2004 Escape) has been 'pinging' on occasion. Particulalry when going up hills or under load at low speeds.
I want to fix it... but to do that, I need to understand what causes it...?? Is it fuel related? Spark plugs? carbon build up?
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2007 BFII FPV Cobra Ute|Boss 302|6M|#23/100 Mods so far: Billet Products Shifter|X-Force Exhaust|Herrod Oil Breathers|Whiteline Sway Bar|Tein SuperStreets|Kings FOR-303SL Rear Springs|Melling Oil Pump|Mace Manifold Spacers|Powerbond Underdrives|Pacemaker Headers|Ballistic Cats|XFT Custom Tune @ 308.3rwkw|DBA T3 Rotors|Ferodo Pads|Goodridge Braided Lines Mods to come: 4.11 Diff Gears|Chromoly Tailshaft I use & recommend: Castrol|Motorcraft|Mainlube|Penrite Check Out My Build Thread |
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#2 | ||
^^^^^^^^
![]() ![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: online - duh
Posts: 9,634
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Read this; http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinging
What fuel are you using? Easy fix is higher octane.
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. Last edited by Raptor; 13-08-2014 at 08:17 PM. |
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#3 | ||
Call me dirt... Joe Dirt
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Back in Perth for good
Posts: 5,302
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Thanks for that.
Currently running regular 91. I'll try a tank of premium unleaded next tank to see if that helps.
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2007 BFII FPV Cobra Ute|Boss 302|6M|#23/100 Mods so far: Billet Products Shifter|X-Force Exhaust|Herrod Oil Breathers|Whiteline Sway Bar|Tein SuperStreets|Kings FOR-303SL Rear Springs|Melling Oil Pump|Mace Manifold Spacers|Powerbond Underdrives|Pacemaker Headers|Ballistic Cats|XFT Custom Tune @ 308.3rwkw|DBA T3 Rotors|Ferodo Pads|Goodridge Braided Lines Mods to come: 4.11 Diff Gears|Chromoly Tailshaft I use & recommend: Castrol|Motorcraft|Mainlube|Penrite Check Out My Build Thread |
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#4 | ||
Now Fordless
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Fremantle, WA
Posts: 3,611
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Either loading it up too much in the wrong gear, using poor quality fuel or its got carbon build up causing hot spots/increased compression
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#5 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Mid North Coast
Posts: 6,442
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All of the above and more. May be timing is too advanced, poor quality fuel, compression too high, wrong plugs, not enough spark, engine running too hot, etc etc
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The Daily Driver : '98 EL Falcon, 5 Speed , 3.45 lsd The Week End Bruiser : FPV BF GT 40th Anniversary, 6 Speed Manual, 6/4 Brembo and lots of Herrod goodies Project 1 : '75 XB GS 351 Ute, Toploader, 9" with 3.5's Project 2 : '74 XB GS Big Block Coupe, Toploader, 9" with 4.11's In Storage : '74 XB GS 351 Fairmont Sedan XB Falcon Owners Group Mike's Man Cave |
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#6 | ||
Call me dirt... Joe Dirt
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Back in Perth for good
Posts: 5,302
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How do you clean out carbon build-up?
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2007 BFII FPV Cobra Ute|Boss 302|6M|#23/100 Mods so far: Billet Products Shifter|X-Force Exhaust|Herrod Oil Breathers|Whiteline Sway Bar|Tein SuperStreets|Kings FOR-303SL Rear Springs|Melling Oil Pump|Mace Manifold Spacers|Powerbond Underdrives|Pacemaker Headers|Ballistic Cats|XFT Custom Tune @ 308.3rwkw|DBA T3 Rotors|Ferodo Pads|Goodridge Braided Lines Mods to come: 4.11 Diff Gears|Chromoly Tailshaft I use & recommend: Castrol|Motorcraft|Mainlube|Penrite Check Out My Build Thread |
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#7 | ||
Now Fordless
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Fremantle, WA
Posts: 3,611
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#8 | ||
Performance moderator
![]() Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: St Clair..N.S.W
Posts: 14,875
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Water injection will clean chambers big time! Check the cylinders on engines with blown head gaskets ?
Change down on hills .. Try some E10 ? It can clean chambers too.. Check for inlet leaks if engine has maf or air meter ? Plugs heat range could be too hot ? Fuel filter or pump may not be supplying enough fuel? Blocked or restrictive cat / exhaust? Could be spark jumping / cross firing between leads ?
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Real cars are not driven by front wheels,real cars lift them!!... BABYS ARE BOTTLE FED, REAL MEN GET BLOWN. Don't be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark...Professionals built the Titanic! Dart 330ci block turbo black pearl EBXR8 482 rwkw.. Daily driver GTE FG.. Projects http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=107711 http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...8+turbo&page=4 |
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#9 | ||
I belong in an AU
![]() Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NOR Perth W.A
Posts: 1,061
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There are a few ways, both of which are as crude as each other.
1. While engine is running, poor SMALL amounts of water down the intake, this "water injection" as it were. Loosens up the carbon and will make it's way out the exhaust. However - to much water = Hydrolocking of engine, bent valves, rods, crack pistons. the potential for an epic disaster. 2. You can purchase a carbon cleaner, or pay certain people to do it. Fairly Similar to the above, however this solution is flammable so it will burn (to an extent). While engine is stopped poor soloution into engine intake, turn over engine with breaker bar on front harmonic bolt, add more solution. Let engine sit over night, then in the morning try and fire her up ! End result is a bit bang and a huge cloud of Carbon crap from the exhaust. I have been tried both of these, and I DO NOT recommend them, they are a last resort kinda deal. In saying that - the water trick cleaned up the 400,000km old 5L windsor a treat ! How many Km's has the done ? If I were you, Try a couple tanks of United P100 let the 10% ethanol clean up the injectors and bores. Cheers Jay
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Daily drive - 2013 VDJ200 VX Landcruiser Current Ford: XH II XR8 UTE Manual, N9 Blue, EL GT wheels - 347ci, AFR185's, Edelbrock RPM II, LINK ECU, Factory T5. Previously: - T3 TE50 No: 179 - T3 TE50 No: 125 - AU XLS Trayback V8 - AU XR6 Manual - FG 5.4L Kenne bell SC - 05 BA 2 GTP - AU 2 XR8 sedan - XD 351C - EL Fairlane By Tickford - EL Fairmont TKO 5 speed |
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#10 | ||
Call me dirt... Joe Dirt
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Back in Perth for good
Posts: 5,302
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Cheers Jay, will try the P100 method first, see how that goes.
Oh, and its done 175,000 kms.
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#11 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canberra Region
Posts: 8,923
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Give it an Italian tuneup
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2016 FGX XR8 Sprint, 6speed manual, Kinetic Blue #170 2004 BA wagon RTV project. 1998 EL XR8, Auto, Hot Chilli Red 1993 ED XR6, 5speed, Polynesian Green. 1 of 329. Retired 1968 XT Falcon 500 wagon, 3 on the tree, 3.6L. Patina project. |
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#12 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,318
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Check the timing first. Usually the cheapest and easiest.
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#13 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,026
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#14 | ||
Two turning.. two burning
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Coast NSW
Posts: 1,119
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VTEC just kicked in bro!!!
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I LIKE BLOWERS, TURBO'S.. AND ENGINES BIG ENOUGH NOT TO NEED EITHER ![]() BLOWN, 2013 FPV GS UTE TURBO TERRITORY GHIA 545ci XB GS UTE Daily, 2006 F250 crew cab BA2 Fairmont Ghia |
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#15 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: PERTH. WA
Posts: 4,697
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Just run it on premium or 98 Joe it should be fine,maybe run a can of upper cylinder and combustion cleaner through the intake to clean out oil residue,comb chamber deposits etc.
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#16 | ||
BANNED
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,886
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Doesn't this car have a knock sensor in the ECU?
If it does then something is broken. |
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#17 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 172
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Pinging is the air fuel mixture exploding, when an SI engine is running as it should the flame propagation creates a "controlled burn". Pinging generally occurs at low rpm high load or high rpm high load. Most new cars will ping if you stab at the throttle, manufactures tune as close as possible to the ping condition to optimise the engines Bsfc.
Car manufactures use the knock sensor as tool to optimise the tune, pushing the limits of the tune until knock is being detected then backing off a little and repeat the process constantly. This is how modern cars optimise the tune for different fuels. I.e premium v normal unleaded If your car is pinging going up a hill at low revs in a high gear, down gear & the pinging will disappear. If it is a high rpm & load situation it generally means something is not quite right, generally the case when a car has been tuned by the aftermarket. Car manufacturers tune conservatively for high rpm & load and use richer than ideal mixtures to avoid pinging in this condition as it can cause catastrophic engine damage.
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#18 | ||
BANNED
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#19 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 537
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This stuff is apparently the ducks nuts for cleaning carbon etc. No experience with it myself though
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#21 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 246
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They certainly can. If at cruse then stab the throttle, the ECU will most likely be at full spark advance. it will take the ECU a moment to hear the ping and pull spark advance out. You can often hear that.
During closed loop, most new cars have active knock control where is is listening all the time. Older cars still need to be in closed loop, but only listened under certain conditions... Example is the EF EL and, from memory, the knock sensor was only active less than 4000rpm with throttle position greater than 50% I would be trying to clean the engine up with some of the basic things listed above...
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#22 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
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If I might offer another idea, if the car had never pinged before and has only just started doing this after filing up at servo X ...... change servos , all fuels are not equal qaulity.
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#23 | ||
Call me dirt... Joe Dirt
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Back in Perth for good
Posts: 5,302
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Well, looks like the pinging may have been caused by some dodgey fuel.
A fresh tank of juice last night appears to have rectified the pinging... so it seems. Anyways, this weekend, I'll be cleaning the throttle-body. And if I'm feeling brave, I might even try the water injection method to 'steam clean' a bit of the carbon from the combustion chambers. I've done plenty of youtubing and reckon I'll be ok, so long as I take it very slowly.
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2007 BFII FPV Cobra Ute|Boss 302|6M|#23/100 Mods so far: Billet Products Shifter|X-Force Exhaust|Herrod Oil Breathers|Whiteline Sway Bar|Tein SuperStreets|Kings FOR-303SL Rear Springs|Melling Oil Pump|Mace Manifold Spacers|Powerbond Underdrives|Pacemaker Headers|Ballistic Cats|XFT Custom Tune @ 308.3rwkw|DBA T3 Rotors|Ferodo Pads|Goodridge Braided Lines Mods to come: 4.11 Diff Gears|Chromoly Tailshaft I use & recommend: Castrol|Motorcraft|Mainlube|Penrite Check Out My Build Thread |
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#24 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: PERTH. WA
Posts: 4,697
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If you want clean combustion chambers get some ford combustion and intake clean,its much safer and there's zero chance of getting moisture inside your motor...
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#25 | |||
BANNED
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,886
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Quote:
Show me a NEW car that pings? An EL is a dinosaur with quasi fuel injection etc etc. |
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#26 | |||
Call me dirt... Joe Dirt
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Back in Perth for good
Posts: 5,302
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Quote:
But from what I've been reading, the water injection method does work and I'm curious to give it a go. Have a look how this guys is doing it, damn near drowning the engine...! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv4a3k-6Z4w I'll be doing this slightly safer method: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izvz18xgfA0
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2007 BFII FPV Cobra Ute|Boss 302|6M|#23/100 Mods so far: Billet Products Shifter|X-Force Exhaust|Herrod Oil Breathers|Whiteline Sway Bar|Tein SuperStreets|Kings FOR-303SL Rear Springs|Melling Oil Pump|Mace Manifold Spacers|Powerbond Underdrives|Pacemaker Headers|Ballistic Cats|XFT Custom Tune @ 308.3rwkw|DBA T3 Rotors|Ferodo Pads|Goodridge Braided Lines Mods to come: 4.11 Diff Gears|Chromoly Tailshaft I use & recommend: Castrol|Motorcraft|Mainlube|Penrite Check Out My Build Thread |
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#27 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canberra Region
Posts: 8,923
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Honda Accords are well known for it
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2016 FGX XR8 Sprint, 6speed manual, Kinetic Blue #170 2004 BA wagon RTV project. 1998 EL XR8, Auto, Hot Chilli Red 1993 ED XR6, 5speed, Polynesian Green. 1 of 329. Retired 1968 XT Falcon 500 wagon, 3 on the tree, 3.6L. Patina project. |
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#28 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
Posts: 4,881
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How the heck would you get CARBON build up in a modern engine?
Don't get me wrong, I have seen all sorts of crud in heads, but CARBON will simply burn, unless your engine is running way too rich. Sudden onset pinging is most likely dodgy fuel. Something went out of whack in the blend and its "octane" rating is too low. Your car should compensate for this, but there's a limit to how far it will retard the spark. If it persists, then I would start to suspect that something has gone wrong with the timing, so you have to start looking at sensors, etc.
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#29 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canberra Region
Posts: 8,923
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Carbon build up in a BMW M5 engine (E39)
![]() And a Mini Cooper (direct injected BMW engine) ![]()
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2016 FGX XR8 Sprint, 6speed manual, Kinetic Blue #170 2004 BA wagon RTV project. 1998 EL XR8, Auto, Hot Chilli Red 1993 ED XR6, 5speed, Polynesian Green. 1 of 329. Retired 1968 XT Falcon 500 wagon, 3 on the tree, 3.6L. Patina project. |
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#30 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 246
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Quote:
Was using the EF EL as an example. BTW, the 5.4 3 valve in the BA has NO knock sensors at all.
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The garage... 20 Mustang GT / Rapid Red / Shadow / 6 Manual 14 FPV GT-F / Smoke / 6 Speed Manual / Build 235 14 FPV F6 / Octane / 6 Speed Auto / Build 849 10 FPV GS Ute / Sensation / 6 speed Auto / 264 rwkW / Build 136 07 BF XR6 Turbo / Silhouette / 6 Speed Auto / 245 rwkW 04 BA UTE 5.4 3 Valve / 4 Speed Auto / 200 rwkW / 97 EL GT / Burgundy / 5.0L SVO / 4 Speed Auto Holden. Game Over. |
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