Perspective on States and fine revenue.

[xxx000]

we're actually better off than we've ever been including financially but it's easy to work people up into a lather by telling them they're hard done by

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by lucas2

The "rules" are not always there to serve the best interest of the public, but instead the government's agenda. Each year we are slowly getting more money taken away from us i.e. increase in fine revenue..and our "rights" are slowly disappearing to.

Can you qualify this statement??

What Government agenda are rules enforcing?? Please be specific as to what the agenda is and why.

How are you getting money taken away from you???

No one has ever taken money from me, I have however done the wrong thing a few times and I have received a fine (once for no P plates, and guess what I had no P Plates) and once for speeding (I overtook an undercover police car when I was running late for work, he let me off for not indicating and not wearing a seat belt, just gave me a speeding fine). Also had a few speeding tickets (none in about 7 years now), and every time I was knowingly speeding, taking a calculated risk that in those cases did not pay off.

Not the fault of the person booking me, but my fault for doing the wrong thing.

It's funny how people whine about police not doing their job, but also whine when they do. People complain about police driving fast, yet complain if they take too long to get to an incident. It seems to be a lose/lose situation.

What rights are disappearing?? Again be specific, as we now have more rights than ever before, to the point of being ridiculous.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by lucas2

The "rules" are not always there to serve the best interest of the public, but instead the government's agenda. Each year we are slowly getting more money taken away from us i.e. increase in fine revenue..and our "rights" are slowly disappearing to.

Just because you can spruik vague and unevidenced statements, does not make it factual... nor does self belief in untruths or half truths... If you have something to point out or say, back it up with evidence or examples...

[lucas2]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Can you qualify this statement??

What Government agenda are rules enforcing?? Please be specific as to what the agenda is and why.

How are you getting money taken away from you???


It's funny how people whine about police not doing their job, but also whine when they do. People complain about police driving fast, yet complain if they take too long to get to an incident. It seems to be a lose/lose situation.

What rights are disappearing?? Again be specific, as we now have more rights than ever before, to the point of being ridiculous.

So the government's aim is not to increase its budget surplus? Making 'speeding' tolerances lower and hiding cameras does not contribute to this surplus? Of the $643 million the government will get from traffic offences, how much of that is being put back into the roads, and how much is going to private contractors?

I don't have a problem with Police, and I actually am friends with a few of them.

What more rights do we have now than say 20 years ago (other than gender and race equality)? Be specific.

My biggest concern is a decrease in privacy. You don't think the NSA is using the new fingerprint scan technology on the new iPhone to get a database of millions, not mention scanning our emails and phone calls? What about the number plate scanning technology, how do we know they are not keeping tabs of our driving patterns?

What about our rights to carry out our daily lives without being hassled? An example of this is if I'm walking through a "designated high crime area", I can be searched, no questions asked. Or the "bikies" in QLD, just because you may be a member of an outlaw club a different set of laws apply to you.

I obviously do not condone serious crime, dangerous driving or anything that can result in the harm of others. But we all have the right to freedom, travel, privacy, and the right to equality and non-discrimination.

[lucas2]

Originally Posted by xxx000

we're actually better off than we've ever been including financially but it's easy to work people up into a lather by telling them they're hard done by

That's true, I guess that makes the higher fines acceptable, because we all earn more.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by lucas2

That's true, I guess that makes the higher fines acceptable, because we all earn more.

Well fines have to be high enough to be a deterrent, ie if the punishment for doing something is low then people are more likely to keep doing it, who would care if a speeding fine was $10, most would just pay it and carry on.

If the fine for driving an unregistered car was $20 no one would register their cars and just pay the fine.

I still see people talking on their mobile phone while driving every day, yet people complain that the fine is too high for the crime, many would argue that the fine is not high enough from a deterrent point of view as it's not deterring people from doing it.

Court will often look at the financial profile before handing out punishment, as they will give a larger monetary punishment to those that have more money/income and a smaller fine to those with low income. This is why courts request income and expense details from people charged with matters before the court.

Unfortunately fixed fines are the same for everyone, this is why there is also a points system, to discourage those with plenty of $$$ to pay fines, but everyone only has limited points before they no longer have a license. I am not rich, but I am more concerned with my points that the money to be honest, as I need my license for work.

[Trump]

I am deeply saddened by how many on this forum have their blinkers on...

Oh and as an FYI, just because some action has legal sanction, doesn't make it right/moral, nor does disallowing other actions make them wrong/immoral.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

I am highly alarmed at how many on this forum believe that they are hard done by when they get caught doing the wrong thing.

At the end of the day it is your decision, you can either do the right thing or the wrong thing and then complain about being caught.

At the end of the day it is 100% your decision, no one else controls your right foot and behaviour on the road apart from YOU, don't blame the world for your lack of driving skill or bad decision making.

[lucas2]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

I am deeply saddened by how many on this forum have their blinkers on...

Oh and as an FYI, just because some action has legal sanction, doesn't make it right/moral, nor does disallowing other actions make them wrong/immoral.

This is the point I'm trying to make. Well said.

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Well fines have to be high enough to be a deterrent, ie if the punishment for doing something is low then people are more likely to keep doing it, who would care if a speeding fine was $10, most would just pay it and carry on.

I still see people talking on their mobile phone while driving every day, yet people complain that the fine is too high for the crime, many would argue that the fine is not high enough from a deterrent point of view as it's not deterring people from doing it.

Unfortunately fixed fines are the same for everyone, this is why there is also a points system, to discourage those with plenty of $$$ to pay fines, but everyone only has limited points before they no longer have a license. I am not rich, but I am more concerned with my points that the money to be honest, as I need my license for work.

I agree, low speeding fines would not discourage speeding, but as you said the points are critical to majority of people whom rely on their vehicle for work. Points are already high, and fines are high. Perhaps the system may be better off where repeat offenders are fined more and lose more points, versus the first time offender who follows the regulations most of the time.

FYI I have never gotten a single fine, not speeding, parking or anything else.

[MAD]

Income tested fines then?

[dragons90]

But if it wasn't about revenue they could make the fines just to cover admin and rely of the points system.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by dragons90

But if it wasn't about revenue they could make the fines just to cover admin and rely of the points system.

But then the money would have to come from somewhere else, I am happy for fines to be high, as I don't intend on paying many of them, my contributions have been minimal so far. I let others make up the income instead

Originally Posted by lucas2

I agree, low speeding fines would not discourage speeding, but as you said the points are critical to majority of people whom rely on their vehicle for work. Points are already high, and fines are high. Perhaps the system may be better off where repeat offenders are fined more and lose more points, versus the first time offender who follows the regulations most of the time.

FYI I have never gotten a single fine, not speeding, parking or anything else.

Interesting concept, I believe to some degree this happens anyway, as repeat offenders quickly run out of points. I have lost points in the past, but have all points now, but I remember being very worried about points after I had lost a few, and it really slowed me down at the time, as such it modified my driving style in a desired fashion.

So may be I was one of the ones that learned from my experience in the past.

Anyway, if someone can come up with a better solution it would be great, but I see a lot of complaining, but no solutions/alternatives.

How can we educate the masses and modify driving behaviour without enforcement??

Driving is a high risk business, and I have had a few close calls, one being yesterday driving home from work, where a guy in a F250 just pulled out of a side street in front of me, I was travelling at 100km/h at the time in a Toyota Hilux with a bull bar in the rain and I had to swerve to the opposite side of the road to avoid a possibly fatal collision, as I would have hit the guy right in the driver door.

Lucky the road was clear going the other way No fines issued, but we both **** ourselves and got to live another day

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by MAD

Income tested fines then?

Would probably not be a bad idea, but probably too hard to administer.

I guess a $300 fine to someone earning $400 per week would be a lot more devastating than the same fine for someone earning $3000 per week. But then again may be the person earning $400 lives at home with no expenses and just spends $400 on drugs and alcohol anyway, while the guy earning $3000, has a wife at home with 5 kids to feed and a huge mortgage and car loans to pay off, and is already struggling, so nothing is black and white.

On another point is there any point in fining people on welfare or those that have chosen the dole as a career choice?? As they are not actually paying the fine, they just head to Centrelink and pay it off at $2 per week using our tax money But I guess thats another topic all together

[Itsme]

You all know the Governments do rely on fines revenue for their coffers but again take responsibility for your own stupidity if you knowingly get caught breaking the law.

As mentioned a lot of people have disregard for their own actions in breaking the law.

Simple solution is to pay attention & obey the road rules, not that hard for sure.

[Matty4]

How did any state manage to balance its budget 20 years ago before all this fine revenue came their way?

[burnz]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Can you qualify this statement??

What Government agenda are rules enforcing?? Please be specific as to what the agenda is and why.

How are you getting money taken away from you???

No one has ever taken money from me, I have however done the wrong thing a few times and I have received a fine (once for no P plates, and guess what I had no P Plates) and once for speeding (I overtook an undercover police car when I was running late for work, he let me off for not indicating and not wearing a seat belt, just gave me a speeding fine). Also had a few speeding tickets (none in about 7 years now), and every time I was knowingly speeding, taking a calculated risk that in those cases did not pay off.

Not the fault of the person booking me, but my fault for doing the wrong thing.

It's funny how people whine about police not doing their job, but also whine when they do. People complain about police driving fast, yet complain if they take too long to get to an incident. It seems to be a lose/lose situation.

What rights are disappearing?? Again be specific, as we now have more rights than ever before, to the point of being ridiculous.

here ya go a cash grab.. give up smoking http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1226752538056

PS: he lost he's court case.

in the UK a man was fined for littering (he gave a dollar bill to a homeless man) cops pinched $500.00 him for littering.
it will happen here

[Trump]

Originally Posted by Matty4

How did any state manage to balance its budget 20 years ago before all this fine revenue came their way?

Easy, they spent within their means.

[MAD]

Originally Posted by Matty4

How did any state manage to balance its budget 20 years ago before all this fine revenue came their way?

They used to own things that earned money.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by burnz

here ya go a cash grab.. give up smoking http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1226752538056

PS: he lost he's court case.

in the UK a man was fined for littering (he gave a dollar bill to a homeless man) cops pinched $500.00 him for littering.
it will happen here

Interesting case, I guess the law has not caught up to these electronic cigarettes, it's common knowledge that smoking is banned on railway platforms, there are signs everywhere. Not sure how these things work, but are they legal to be smoked in a restaurant for example?? Would they be fine to be smoked in a child care centre?? or Hospital ward?? If not then I guess the fine should stand, if yes.....well lets hope not would hate to be sitting in a restaurant or a train or at the doctors with someone puffing away next to me and my kids.

Anyway where is the link to him losing the court case??? It only went for mention on the 4th of November, and it's going for hearing on the 19th of December, so how can the court case be lost if it has not even been heard yet?? So your statement saying he lost the case is just BS you made up as it's still to go to Court on the 19th of December

Also call BS on a guy getting fined $500 for littering for giving a dollar bill to a homeless person for several reasons
1) You have provided no link
2) the UK does not use dollar bills as legal tender
3) Definition of Littering - Carelessly discarded refuse, such as wastepaper in the streets, doubt money would fit the definition. Money - A medium that can be exchanged for goods and services and is used as a measure of their value.

[jmack]

when a gov counts x amount in their budget its revenue raising,obviously with the increase in fines and therefore forecast rise in revenue the system they have isnt working or there would be a decrease in revenue,but it dosnt matter caus the money is rolling in.and for the 1s that say dont speed and u wont get fined they will just find another way to get it,licence to breathe ,licence to fart etc

[burnz]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Interesting case, I guess the law has not caught up to these electronic cigarettes, it's common knowledge that smoking is banned on railway platforms, there are signs everywhere. Not sure how these things work, but are they legal to be smoked in a restaurant for example?? Would they be fine to be smoked in a child care centre?? or Hospital ward?? If not then I guess the fine should stand, if yes.....well lets hope not would hate to be sitting in a restaurant or a train or at the doctors with someone puffing away next to me and my kids.

Anyway where is the link to him losing the court case??? It only went for mention on the 4th of November, and it's going for hearing on the 19th of December, so how can the court case be lost if it has not even been heard yet?? So your statement saying he lost the case is just BS you made up as it's still to go to Court on the 19th of December

Also call BS on a guy getting fined $500 for littering for giving a dollar bill to a homeless person for several reasons
1) You have provided no link
2) the UK does not use dollar bills as legal tender
3) Definition of Littering - Carelessly discarded refuse, such as wastepaper in the streets, doubt money would fit the definition. Money - A medium that can be exchanged for goods and services and is used as a measure of their value.

local radio for the court case,

the intention of the law was for passive smoking, a vaporiser is not smoking.
funny how the meaning of the law changes when money is involved.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012...-of-the-bills/

[xxx000]

^^^Let me guess...talkback radio was the source?

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by burnz

local radio for the court case,

Well local radio is wrong because the matter still has to go to court on the 19th of December before a decision can be made.

Originally Posted by burnz

The intention of the law was for passive smoking, a vaporiser is not smoking.
funny how the meaning of the law changes when money is involved.

Like I said not sure how they work and you failed to answer my question, are they legal to be smoked in hospitals, child care centres and restaurants?? I believe they are banned in many countries all together and some states of Australia. Not sure I want to be breathing in what ever comes out of them as a non smoker.

Originally Posted by burnz

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012...-of-the-bills/

Interesting how reading the link clarifies what actually happened, he gave money to a 'Pan Handler' which is illegal in a lot of places including the place where the guy got fined. Without knowing the local laws may be the fine for handing money to a 'pan handler' is more than the littering ticket and the cop actually gave the guy a break (the lesser fine) but who knows, but there is obviously more to it like there always is.

Also no where in the article does it say he got fined $500, you need to learn to read things properly instead of skimming over them and making the rest up.

Panhandler - To approach strangers and beg for money -To approach and beg from (a stranger).

[xxx000]

And from Fox. What a reliable source of 'news'
And that's the best evidence to back up your claim that we're doomed

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

How can we educate the masses and modify driving behaviour without enforcement??

I find in most pursuits or endeavours, training and knowledge works really well in modifying behaviour and educating.

What doesn't work is what we currently have, which is hitting people with a big stick for really small, often accidental infringements! How is that ever going to work as an actual, real solution to the lowering of the road toll?

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by XR6TCraig

I find in most pursuits or endeavours, training and knowledge works really well in modifying behaviour and educating.

What doesn't work is what we currently have, which is hitting people with a big stick for really small, often accidental infringements! How is that ever going to work as an actual, real solution to the lowering of the road toll?

Interesting idea, so how will this work?? How will we implement it??

Start by abolishing all fines and get the cops to give you a hug and cuddle and tell you you been a bad boy, and make you watch an educational video??

[Rockape]

It's amazing the gov rips us off more and more and people are lining up to say thank you. Please take more from me.

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Interesting idea, so how will this work?? How will we implement it??

Start by abolishing all fines and get the cops to give you a hug and cuddle and tell you you been a bad boy, and make you watch an educational video??

I think the only one who needs a hug might be you actually!

You really don't think that training and education is the key to lowering the road toll, instead of just focusing on camera revenue? Of course enforcement needs to be a part of it, but not the type that we currently have. Punish bad driving, not just people doing a handful of klms over the speed limit.

Training and education might have meant that the situation that you described yourself being in the other night when you had to take evasive action in your Hilux may not have even happened!

What's wrong with seeing what works best elsewhere in the world in terms of training and education and road management policies and adopting the best of those schemes here?
Our current system isn't working, or do you think it is?

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Interesting idea, so how will this work?? How will we implement it??

Start by abolishing all fines and get the cops to give you a hug and cuddle and tell you you been a bad boy, and make you watch an educational video??

And you are the one that says that media are the sensationalists .......

Just a few points that are my opinion:
The tolerance is way too low.

The legislation is allowed on the premise that a couple of K's over is dangerous.

The legislation is allowed because of those with a "I do not speed so I wont get fined" perception

Those who say they do not speed are not telling the truth. No one can drive under the limit 100% of the time.

Those who have not had a speeding ticket are only lucky.

Those who have not had a speeding ticket are not better drivers.

The amount of fines collected because of extremely low tolerances is not stopping those who purposely speed.

The amount of time spent on the "Speed Kills" mantra is not in proportion to the real problems on the roads.

The real causes of road fatalities are not addressed properly as they cost money and do not raise money.

Those who are safer on the roads spend more time watching their surroundings and driving to the conditions rather than just ensuring they are under the posted speed limit.

It has been proven time and time again that police presence is the best form of deterrent.

The fines associated with a few K's over is not proportional to any other fines.

To hide under the pretence that is all to do with safety when nearly 2 BILLION dollars is collected because of more cameras with lower tolerances in areas that are proven to be non black spots or accident zones is wrong.

The amount collected will only increase, even if everyone tries to drive under the limit (not necessarily safely) as more technology and more cameras are introduced.

A bit of the above is my opinion while most is fact and common sense.

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

And you are the one that says that media are the sensationalists .......

Just a few points that are my opinion:
The tolerance is way too low.

The legislation is allowed on the premise that a couple of K's over is dangerous.

The legislation is allowed because of those with a "I do not speed so I wont get fined" perception

Those who say they do not speed are not telling the truth. No one can drive under the limit 100% of the time.

Those who have not had a speeding ticket are only lucky.

Those who have not had a speeding ticket are not better drivers.

The amount of fines collected because of extremely low tolerances is not stopping those who purposely speed.

The amount of time spent on the "Speed Kills" mantra is not in proportion to the real problems on the roads.

The real causes of road fatalities are not addressed properly as they cost money and do not raise money.

Those who are safer on the roads spend more time watching their surroundings and driving to the conditions rather than just ensuring they are under the posted speed limit.

It has been proven time and time again that police presence is the best form of deterrent.

The fines associated with a few K's over is not proportional to any other fines.

To hide under the pretence that is all to do with safety when nearly 2 BILLION dollars is collected because of more cameras with lower tolerances in areas that are proven to be non black spots or accident zones is wrong.

The amount collected will only increase, even if everyone tries to drive under the limit (not necessarily safely) as more technology and more cameras are introduced.

A bit of the above is my opinion while most is fact and common sense.

Please stop making sense.

You are just going to make yourself a target for the brainwashed! LOL