Australia - China - Poltics - Page 15

MITCHAY · 21-05-2021, 08:47 PM

China on the lookout to cut their dependence on Australian iron ore. I'm sure they don't appreciate despite acting like ****s they really have not hurt us and have made it rain $$$ for Australia

They have no solution right now except to lessen demand but the biggest advantage they have is they think beyond election cycles.

Our government need to understand that we can only milk the tit of the iron ore cow for so long to prop up the economy with these huge prices.

They will cut us loose and we need a plan for that. I'm of the opinion that we are in a position of strength right now so should take advantage of that.

oldel · 21-05-2021, 10:54 PM

Yeah, I mentioned before I think they acted too soon, ie before they could build up Africa or Sth America for mineral supply. You say they think longer than the next election but they still don't think everything through due to ego and like trying the strongman act these days too much.

Because of that they jumped the gun in timing because they thought the west was too weak after covid. They probably didn't expect Australia to breeze through it, or the push back they're getting from our allies. They still treat us as dirt farmers that will buy all they're rubbish (not completely wrong - we need to change that).

They were planning to buy the world as I've said but they acted too soon due to covid and I mentioned the west should use that to our advantage and pivot away - in that respect their early shots could have saved us, if we actually do something about it.

MITCHAY · 21-05-2021, 11:14 PM

China made a tactical mistake coming out so hard against us.

They really underestimated our resolve. We have been through some tough times the last year but we have taken it like a champ!

A lot of countries are less than impressed with China to put it politely

randel · 22-05-2021, 12:00 AM

I havent read through the whole thread, but is there any reason we cant put the 'i' back in Poltics?

b0son · 22-05-2021, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

They really underestimated our resolve. We have been through some tough times the last year but we have taken it like a champ!

Because the chinese have continued to buy our resources. That is all. They're increasing domestic production, and looking to other exporters to reduce their reliance on us. And dont underestimate the sheer volume of cash the government has injected into the economy. This has masked the problem china has caused a number of our other industries. We will feel china's retaliation soon enough.

MITCHAY · 22-05-2021, 12:46 AM

I know the wrath is coming eventually but I reckon we will meet it head on.

MITCHAY · 27-05-2021, 11:42 PM

Well China are trying to tank the iron ore price and they have achieved a bit of a dip so far.

But these dumb ****s don't quite understand that the reason it skyrocketed in the first place was down to their own demand and supply issues

The fact that alternative supplies in Brazil are ****ed because of unrelated disasters and the WuFlu they unleashed on the world affecting production seems to be lost on them

So unless they want to lessen demand, we could counter it by slowing supply at a basic level to drive it back up if we had a spine. We want to get it extra clean for you

They have absolutely had an effect at the micro level but nothing yet at the macro level in our economy so go **** yourselves!

oldel · 28-05-2021, 02:48 AM

LOL as if twiggy is going to do an "OPEC" and reduce flow to raise prices. He cares more about the money than the nation or getting into a war. He's going to try sell as much as he can while the price is high and before other markets open up more to China.

Dreaming that any supplier here is willing to sacrifice anything - they're all about the $.
Unlike China that will tell their population what to do, and go without heat, food and power to make a point, never going to happen here. We'll sell ourselves bare for a buck then wonder what's happened while convalesced in a Chinese owned villa in the future.
The farmers, wine and seafood industry would beg to sell there again. People here still want Chinese cars and other junk.

slowsnake · 07-06-2021, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burnout

You think so............ China is building the worlds biggest stockpile of iron ore ever seen.
Guess what happens when they reckon they have enough...............

I know I am a bit late on this but, I will tell you what happens when Chinas stockpile is bigger than Mt Everest?

The earth will tilt because of the imbalance and China will get what's its always wanted....Australia, lol,...they will end up down under and Australia will end up on the top of the world, lol, hahaha

Cheers Billy.

RenegadeMan · 07-06-2021, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldel

Yeah. Walking into that eyes wide open and not doing a productive thing about it.
This gov doesn't know how to communicate - gets all messed up with a big stick approach like dumb headmasters. Much like border control issues - gets themselves so riled up on threatening with big sticks they have to walk backwards and say the threat wasn't the point/issue. No matter how hard they try they haven't got rid of foot in mouth disease.

Seriously, worst set of fed pollies we've had for a long long time. Low intellect crossed with complacency. I don't bat for the other team - my support is earned, not given - but some pollies with competence has got to find a path through this.
This time next year we will be begging for andrew ****in forrest, god help us, most state govs are better than this LNP federal mob! The fed gov don't understand much, Dan Tehan as trade minister? We're stuffed, the guy is a moron. An idiot that did nothing in education and likes shooting his mouth off on twitter!

Soooo in agreement!

I also don't bat automatically for the other side and I cast my vote based on competent teams with a vision. This absolutely despicable cunch of bunts are beyond a joke. The incompetence is just off the scale. It's a continual clown troupe tripping over themselves with 99% of their energy focused on political BS and spin. They are unbearable and such a danger to our democracy. That not a single one of them is capable of having any relationship with China is appalling. Even Japan, that has serious territorial disputes and committed WWII atrocities in China has a working relationship that's prosperous and mostly harmonious. On the international front, virtually NOTHING for the future is as important as our standing with China and it's currently in the gutter. Anyone with a half a brain knows that dealing with the red dragon is complex and full of incongruity with many areas we'll never be in agreement on, but the salaries these arseholes are on DEMANDS far better performance. We should have at least 3 or 4 mandarin speaking ministers within the cabinet that understand how to negotiate our nations' differences and seek common ground for betterment.

It really is more important for our future than almost any other relationship. They are failing miserably yet we have a media in this country that has prevented the average Aussie from seeing what a farce our government is. It's terrible and the damage that's been done is incalculable. In 2021 when we should be leading the world on demonstrating how a strong democracy engages effectively with the CCP, we have nothing to show. All we have are morons and the world's most obnoxious smirkhole who has no idea, no clue and no plan. Shameful.

slowsnake · 07-06-2021, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RenegadeMan

Soooo in agreement!

I also don't bat automatically for the other side and I cast my vote based on competent teams with a vision. This absolutely despicable cunch of bunts are beyond a joke. The incompetence is just off the scale. It's a continual clown troupe tripping over themselves with 99% of their energy focused on political BS and spin. They are unbearable and such a danger to our democracy. That not a single one of them is capable of having any relationship with China is appalling. Even Japan, that has serious territorial disputes and committed WWII atrocities in China has a working relationship that's prosperous and mostly harmonious. On the international front, virtually NOTHING for the future is as important as our standing with China and it's currently in the gutter. Anyone with a half a brain knows that dealing with the red dragon is complex and full of incongruity with many areas we'll never be in agreement on, but the salaries these arseholes are on DEMANDS far better performance. We should have at least 3 or 4 mandarin speaking ministers within the cabinet that understand how to negotiate our nations' differences and seek common ground for betterment.

It really is more important for our future than almost any other relationship. They are failing miserably yet we have a media in this country that has prevented the average Aussie from seeing what a farce our government is. It's terrible and the damage that's been done is incalculable. In 2021 when we should be leading the world on demonstrating how a strong democracy engages effectively with the CCP, we have nothing to show. All we have are morons and the world's most obnoxious smirkhole who has no idea, no clue and no plan. Shameful.

Nothing has changed then in this world since the beginning of time!
One tribe wants what other tribes have, if they can't have it they muscle up and try to take it.

Same with country's and with politics, one side wants to be in control, not for the good of the people, but for the good of what they think others need, we voted these state, territory and federal governments into office, of course we listened to their lies, lies about how they will spend "our taxes" not how they would react in a crisis?

But they failed because they didn't know what to do, and still don't, nothing it seems will stop covid, it just changes to suit itself, not sure how a politician is going to fix these issues, scientists and world renowned doctors don't know!
These fools are "career politicians?"
What does that mean, where did they learn and earn their stripes, or get their experience?

Cheers Billy.

shedcoupe · 07-06-2021, 05:33 PM

And where's the job description and duty statement, the performance appraisals, and the accountability ?
I have to do drug tests to ensure that I'm not some hippy pot consumer that will become violent (as if ....) so why don't they get their hair analysed ?

slowsnake · 07-06-2021, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shedcoupe

And where's the job description and duty statement, the performance appraisals, and the accountability ?
I have to do drug tests to ensure that I'm not some hippy pot consumer that will become violent (as if ....) so why don't they get their hair analysed ?

Because we the rank and file average Joe allows it!
They are above the law, until they get caught out, if they don't get caught out then they stay above the law.
As I get older the more cynical I seem to get, lol.

Cheers Billy.

Bossxr8 · 09-06-2021, 04:01 PM

USA stepping up to the plate with a new anti-china bill.

In a rare show of bipartisan solidarity in the polarised US Capitol, the Senate came together on Tuesday to pass sweeping legislation designed to strengthen Washington’s hand in its escalating geopolitical and economic competition with China.
By a vote of 68 to 32, the 2,400-page US Innovation and Competition Act of 2021 brought together a coalition of progressives, moderates and conservatives who, despite their intense disagreements on nearly every other consequential policy issue, have become united in their view the Chinese government under the rule of Xi Jinping has become a threat to global stability and American power.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...gtype=homepage

**FTE217** · 09-06-2021, 05:21 PM

All and well getting on the soap box venting and beating your chest of our current Govs lack of spine or not or its lack of management skilset But the fact of the matter the rot started long long before.........
External global issues have also changed so much and contributed making CCP as it currently is.
They feel they are recovering lost ground from long ago on being a Global leader and their arrogance and two faced manipulative ways going about it wouldn't change a thing IF we had a leader and his minnions playing the diplomatic game.
We haven't had competent teams/parties with vision for years - no one is allowed to make changes or even consider throwing it up for debate thanks to also so many of the rank and file also only give a F about themselves.
Go figure.

J Arthur Rank · 09-06-2021, 05:28 PM

Nice find there Boss - lets hope the ****wits running this country grow some balls too and start earning their ludicrous salaries as Renegade Bloke so eloquently put it earlier

In relation to your thoughts on diplomacy though Renegade, do you think anyone can reasonably come to agreeable terms with that deadbeat Winnie, be they mandarin speakers or not?

After all, he "presides" over a government that time and time again just **** all over their own citizens and lie, both to them and the west at large. If they are called out on anything, such as the ongoing Uyghur situation, the best they can do is some lame rap song about cotton and continue to spruik their usual response (divert blame elsewhere and act like spoilt children)

Is this someone who would be willing/happy to have a beneficial relationship with other leaders? I don't think so based on his track record so far. We do have a poor standing with China currently but it has to be a two way street to get things back in order and I don't see the ccp doing anything to start remediating the gigantic ****up they have caused all over the world.

Your thoughts?

shedcoupe · 09-06-2021, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J Arthur Rank

... but it has to be a two way street to get things back in order .....

You may wish for that but you’re unlikely to get.
China is remarkably insular - they’re just not that interested in other countries and people and any interest is only in relation to what can serve China’s interests.
They’re big. We’re small. We’ve got no leverage apart from having a few things that they like and need.
We’re just nobodies of no consequence in their eyes.
Japan for example isn’t important to them, and a desire for some revenge for past crimes would be a priority for other races and nations but does China care ?
Nup. Or they’re keeping their cards close to the chest. But I doubt that.

China just wants to be rich and happy on their terms and if other nations find some aspects of China reprehensible well that’s not China's problem.

J Arthur Rank · 09-06-2021, 07:35 PM

Hey Shed

I agree that seems to be the current CCP's M.O but is it sustainable you reckon? Can they be rich and happy on their own terms while constantly telling everyone else to get ****ed?

I wish I could say I wish for diplomacy down the two way street but the older I get, the more cynical I get too

I agree with you and am of the opinion that China's wonderful all loving and all knowing great leader is unlikely to come to the party even if pollies here get their act together.

One thing I do wish for is that narrow minded people the world over could learn to differentiate between Asian people and the CCP. Being bashed/attacked etc because you just happen to be of Asian descent is bloody disgusting.

shedcoupe · 09-06-2021, 08:38 PM

I think China is big enough now to do what they like except that like everyone else they’re indebted to future earnings.
They’re smart enough to bide their time over Taiwan and they’ve got the South China Sea, western China, and Tibet by the curlies.

I thoroughly agree re persons of Asian appearance.
I know some lovely Taiwanese, Korean, Filipino, Singaporean and Thai people who are citizens or residents of Australia and it makes me sick to think that some selfish ignorant bogan might abuse them.
Especially if it’s my wife they’re abusing because it won’t be pretty.

Even knowing that Asian Australians feel the possibility of abuse when in public is horrendous.
I think Aussies generally aren’t racist but there’s been plenty of that in the past and it still occurs today.

CoupeKing · 09-06-2021, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shedcoupe

I think China is big enough now to do what they like except that like everyone else they’re indebted to future earnings.
They’re smart enough to bide their time over Taiwan and they’ve got the South China Sea, western China, and Tibet by the curlies.

I thoroughly agree re persons of Asian appearance.
I know some lovely Taiwanese, Korean, Filipino, Singaporean and Thai people who are citizens or residents of Australia and it makes me sick to think that some selfish ignorant bogan might abuse them.
Especially if it’s my wife they’re abusing because it won’t be pretty.

Even knowing that Asian Australians feel the possibility of abuse when in public is horrendous.
I think Aussies generally aren’t racist but there’s been plenty of that in the past and it still occurs today.

I rekon give Japan short-range nukes, wipe these c***t's out over night.

shedcoupe · 09-06-2021, 08:53 PM

A tragic waste of some really hot women unfortunately.

RenegadeMan · 09-06-2021, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J Arthur Rank

Nice find there Boss - lets hope the ****wits running this country grow some balls too and start earning their ludicrous salaries as Renegade Bloke so eloquently put it earlier

In relation to your thoughts on diplomacy though Renegade, do you think anyone can reasonably come to agreeable terms with that deadbeat Winnie, be they mandarin speakers or not?

After all, he "presides" over a government that time and time again just **** all over their own citizens and lie, both to them and the west at large. If they are called out on anything, such as the ongoing Uyghur situation, the best they can do is some lame rap song about cotton and continue to spruik their usual response (divert blame elsewhere and act like spoilt children)

Is this someone who would be willing/happy to have a beneficial relationship with other leaders? I don't think so based on his track record so far. We do have a poor standing with China currently but it has to be a two way street to get things back in order and I don't see the ccp doing anything to start remediating the gigantic ****up they have caused all over the world.

Your thoughts?

Xi Jinping is clearly quite uninterested in pretty much every other world leader. One only has to watch his body language during meetings and interactions to see a "I'd rather be at home playing mahjong" look on his face...

Granted this is Trump he's meeting with which likely carries a raft of other emotional responses and people's bodily countenance will be altered in a variety of ways by being in the presence of the orange monster. But there are many photos and videos like this of Xi Jinping showing all the enthusiasm of our one of our current pollies arriving to be grilled at a senate estimates committee meeting.

I would say he has little interest in learning to speak English and is totally focussed on the re-emergence of China as the dominant world power. He is on a long haul pathway to gradually see his nation restored to (what many in China and particularly within the CCP see as) the top of the world's order and structure. Now there's huge debate of course as to whether China was ever once "top of the world" but a quick perusal of their history and one can see that it was really just how the dice landed that the angloshpere ended up dominating the world's advances in science, technology, economics and military power. He knows that most of the west have powered their economies on exports to China (pretty much none more so than Australia) and hence, much of our prosperity and continued standard of living is predicated on China continuing to buy our raw stuff. He knows that there's little need for him to go out of his way to talk to us, we're going to continue to be there with our wares, gladly accepting USD in return.

The ball's all in our court on "doing something" about the relationship. It's extremely tough because they know they can do far more damage to us economically than we can ever do to them. So there's imbalance and disrespect. The ONLY way we're going to get this sorted (and avoid the mother of all wars) is dialogue on their level. We have to find mandarin speaking leaders who can engage in a respectful manner. It doesn't mean that we step back from reasonable requests such as the COVID investigation but there are far better diplomatic ways that that could have been done. If we had a delegation that could seek meetings with the CCP without the messaging coming across like an A Current Affair sting, we'd actually have a chance.

It needs finesse and tact. It needs people who understand the Chinese disposition and the fear that's at the heart of the CCP's behaviour and actions. As much as I wonder whether he was some sort of sociopathic android, K Rudd might be someone that would have half a chance at sorting it. But he's so on the nose with the current government and his crusade against Murdoch means he has a target on him, so would have a ridiculously hard time attempting to make headway with continued rubbishing in local and international media. But he is fluent in Mandarin, is very knowledgeable on Chinese culture and also understands foreign affairs at a far more sophisticated level than any of Scomo's front bench buffoons. And maybe he could pull a team together. I'd certainly support an attempt at it (in contrast to the complete mess we're currently in) even though I thought the government he ran was ridiculous in the end.

If not Kevin-of-the-07 then we need someone high profile like this who can go to Bejing and use their skills of understanding how to present with honour and strength, but not a lecturing attitude. I'd say this is the main problem, as much as we think the Xi and his CCP cronies are arrogant (and you can't help thinking this when you see that CCP spokesman guy that gets all offended about Australia again and again) they think we are SUPER arrogant in the manner of how we talk to them and about them. And, if you consider how incredibly well Australia has done riding the dragon's economic miracle coat tail, I can imagine how and why they perceive us this way. We need people that can understand how we need to talk with them and how we need to act. It doesn't mean we sell-out and not maintain our concerns around COVID, the Uyhgures, Hong Kong, South China Sea, political prisoners, etc, but we need to find more respectful and appropriate ways of engaging. We need experienced mandarin speakers with deep cultural knowledge as we're clearly seen as rude and impertinent by our Chinese counterparts.

This is first base and we're not even close to it. If we can get there we have far more opportunity to engage more effectively and be a positive influence on the CCP. But whoever runs this team of dedicated diplomacy needs to be listened to and given authority on instructing the government on how to engage. It needs to be a multi-year (multi-decade actually) project and it needs to be understood as of vital importance to Australia's future success. What Scomo's said in the past 24 hours over the the G7 summit are valid concepts but it's just further pushing our relationship with China down to an even worse state. We need to find what we have in common and build on that, not continue to point out to them how evil they are. There are ways through this without conflict, but it takes considered thinking and strategy.

I live in hope but unfortunately don't see too much understanding.

shedcoupe · 09-06-2021, 09:24 PM

They didn’t like Rudd because he’s a smarmy little dork.
Winnie has degrees in law and chemical engineering - Scotty knows how to sharpen pencils and kiss the **** of imaginary sky friends.
No comparison.

slowsnake · 09-06-2021, 09:28 PM

Xi Jinping is like every other leader, they love propaganda, glad I don't live there, or Russia or North Korea for that matter, their form of Communism is very severe, but only if you live there, under their rule!

These dudes remind me of Hitler or Mussolini or even Stalin!
All bluster, and it will pass eventually, its a bit like a long drawn-out type of constipation!..lol....
They China are still dirty about the incident on Marco Polo Bridge?...how embarrassing, lol...

Cheers Billy.

shedcoupe · 09-06-2021, 09:31 PM

The Chinese view Australians the way we view Sir Les Paterson.
The subtleties of Asian cultures are difficult even for those with long experience in Asia.
Not an easy task to engage with China.
Can be done, but difficult even with the right people.

shedcoupe · 09-06-2021, 09:33 PM

If China was of a mind to avenge the MP bridge incident it would leave Japan in ashes.
They haven’t forgotten it and never will.

RenegadeMan · 09-06-2021, 09:38 PM

What's so astounding is that we've done so little compared to what the Japanese did in WWII, yet the Japanese have an infinitely better relationship.

Maybe we should be sending Sir Les in. Can't get any worse!

J Arthur Rank · 09-06-2021, 09:44 PM

Fascinating reply RM, thank you mate.

One thing I am stuck on though is why Xi would be any more accomodating to someone who is able to converse in Chinese and or has a better understanding of Chinese culture, like the miky bar kid for example. He seems so set in his ways, I can't see how those traits would make that much difference?

I realise the CCP is more than just him but even if some more enlightened members wanted to change things for the better, would he not have the final say?

Shed, do you think they are biding their time over Taiwan? Certainly they are far bigger militarily and in man/woman power but I think the only way they could "reclaim" Taiwan is via force. Would they risk that?

shedcoupe · 09-06-2021, 10:22 PM

Follow the money.
If they’re getting what they want the status quo will stay.
Unless Winnie needs a distraction from some internal crisis they’ll sit on their hands.
They don’t need to invade Taiwan as it’s vulnerable to siege.
They can just put up the fence and wait for the result they want.

slowsnake · 10-06-2021, 10:25 AM

I remember when the Berlin Wall came down, and I remember the looks on the faces of East Berliners, after years ( since WW2 ) of suppression and living in abject poverty and absolute fear, they smiled for the first time!

Same with China and North Korea, any news footage shows the people of these types of military regime are like the walking dead, they look soulless and downcast, its very sad to see true propaganda at work with our "free" eyes!
Just recently, in the past few years China and India clashed on their common border, not a shot was fired?
They killed each other with rocks!

Xi Jinping is fighting for his life, his head is very close to the chopping block, and he knows it too.
All bluster, especially in the South China Sea, Brittania really did rule the waves whilst China couldn't guard a bridge,!..lol.
Xi Jinping stated publicly that Britain and America have had their turn, now its China's turn!... what confiscate a couple of unarmed Vietnamese fishing boats?...give me a break......

Cheers Billy.