which car/model changed the face of performance for aussie cars? - Page 9

galaxy xr8 · 13-08-2011, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

Thats what she said.

I don't watch the show but I know where your comming from.

Falc'man · 13-08-2011, 12:38 AM

/Galaxy XR8, you really expect anyone to find links dating back to VT2 days? I don't think you'll find these anywhere.

Why did Ford act with the 220kW 5.0 Windsor, and the 5.6 in the T3s? Beyond that, what instigated the Boss 260s, 290s, and Turbos?
The answer is quite simple; Ford were always behind when it came to performance. They were playing catch up to Holden for a long time. Holden were the aggressor.

When the Ford V8 returned with the EB it was 165kW (and barring the 200kW EB/EL GTs and Sprint, and later the 5.0 T-series) the mainstream performance models remained hovering around the 185kW mark up to AU, in '99. That's 20kW increase in 6/7 years. The turning point and catalyst that brought on the big power from Ford was Holden's decision to use the 220kW Gen3, even in the executive. So in the space of a few years Ford go from 185kW to 260kW.

The big question is, if it weren't for Holden using the Gen 3, would Ford have put any serious work into their performance vehicles, OR, would they have just increased the power by another 20kW over another 6 to 7 years?

I think that is the whole point.

Even the VT1 GTS owners who paid through the nose for 215kW weren't happy that you could then get more power for a third of the price they paid the day before. People wanting by Tickfords during that time couldn't get more than 220kW, and how much were they paying? The HSVs with the LS1 (and C4B) were untouchable (up until the 5.6).

It's not hard to forget the low to mid 14s for a standard 220kW Gen 3 Executive, don't have links, and I don't think anyone will find a link going back that far. However anyone who followed these events at the time would know this to be fact. The point being made is in the modern era that was the turning point, there's no denying that.

It (the Gen3) received rave reviews and won most if not all comparos, and the journos knew how to rub it in. Their popularity was quite high and I personally remember the heartache that we Ford lovers went through. Yes, it's not about straight line speed. No, it is about straight line speed. Hold on a minute, I think it isn't. I see, It depends on whether it suits our argument at the time.

When it comes to p'ing contests and historical moments, it's always been about power. Even Tickford agreed by screwing 220kW out of the 5.0 and giving us the 5.6.

BENT_8 · 13-08-2011, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

/Galaxy XR8, you really expect anyone to find links dating back to VT2 days? I don't think you'll find these anywhere.

Why did Ford act with the 220kW 5.0 Windsor, and the 5.6 in the T3s? Beyond that, what instigated the Boss 260s, 290s, and Turbos?
The answer is quite simple; Ford were always behind when it came to performance. They were playing catch up to Holden for a long time. Holden were the aggressor.

When the Ford V8 returned with the EB it was 165kW (and barring the 200kW EB/EL GTs and Sprint, and later the 5.0 T-series) the mainstream performance models remained hovering around the 185kW mark up to AU, in '99. That's 20kW increase in 6/7 years. The turning point and catalyst that brought on the big power from Ford was Holden's decision to use the 220kW Gen3, even in the executive. So in the space of a few years Ford go from 185kW to 260kW.

The big question is, if it weren't for Holden using the Gen 3, would Ford have put any serious work into their performance vehicles, OR, would they have just increased the power by another 20kW over another 6 to 7 years?

I think that is the whole point.

Even the VT1 GTS owners who paid through the nose for 215kW weren't happy that you could then get more power for a third of the price they paid the day before. People wanting by Tickfords during that time couldn't get more than 220kW, and how much were they paying? The HSVs with the LS1 (and C4B) were untouchable (up until the 5.6).

It's not hard to forget the low to mid 14s for a standard 220kW Gen 3 Executive, don't have links, and I don't think anyone will find a link going back that far. However anyone who followed these events at the time would know this to be fact. The point being made is in the modern era that was the turning point, there's no denying that.

It (the Gen3) received rave reviews and won most if not all comparos, and the journos knew how to rub it in. Their popularity was quite high and I personally remember the heartache that we Ford lovers went through. Yes, it's not about straight line speed. No, it is about straight line speed. Hold on a minute, I think it isn't. I see, It depends on whether it suits our argument at the time.

When it comes to p'ing contests and historical moments, it's always been about power. Even Tickford agreed by screwing 220kW out of the 5.0 and giving us the 5.6.

galaxy xr8 · 13-08-2011, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

/Galaxy XR8, you really expect anyone to find links dating back to VT2 days? I don't think you'll find these anywhere.

Why did Ford act with the 220kW 5.0 Windsor, and the 5.6 in the T3s? Beyond that, what instigated the Boss 260s, 290s, and Turbos?
The answer is quite simple; Ford were always behind when it came to performance. They were playing catch up to Holden for a long time. Holden were the aggressor.

When the Ford V8 returned with the EB it was 165kW (and barring the 200kW EB/EL GTs and Sprint, and later the 5.0 T-series) the mainstream performance models remained hovering around the 185kW mark up to AU, in '99. That's 20kW increase in 6/7 years. The turning point and catalyst that brought on the big power from Ford was Holden's decision to use the 220kW Gen3, even in the executive. So in the space of a few years Ford go from 185kW to 260kW.

The big question is, if it weren't for Holden using the Gen 3, would Ford have put any serious work into their performance vehicles, OR, would they have just increased the power by another 20kW over another 6 to 7 years?

I think that is the whole point.

Even the VT1 GTS owners who paid through the nose for 215kW weren't happy that you could then get more power for a third of the price they paid the day before. People wanting by Tickfords during that time couldn't get more than 220kW, and how much were they paying? The HSVs with the LS1 (and C4B) were untouchable (up until the 5.6).

It's not hard to forget the low to mid 14s for a standard 220kW Gen 3 Executive, don't have links, and I don't think anyone will find a link going back that far. However anyone who followed these events at the time would know this to be fact. The point being made is in the modern era that was the turning point, there's no denying that.

It (the Gen3) received rave reviews and won most if not all comparos, and the journos knew how to rub it in. Their popularity was quite high and I personally remember the heartache that we Ford lovers went through. Yes, it's not about straight line speed. No, it is about straight line speed. Hold on a minute, I think it isn't. I see, It depends on whether it suits our argument at the time.

When it comes to p'ing contests and historical moments, it's always been about power. Even Tickford agreed by screwing 220kW out of the 5.0 and giving us the 5.6.

Why did Holden act with the Gen III ?
Why did holden up their power stakes ?
It goes both way's mate.
A lot of people like to look at the number's game and play the number's game, Ford and Holden have been leap frogging each other since the fight started between the two.
So just because a vehicle is "badged" as a higher number, it automatically mean's it's quicker does it ?.
Really between the two rival's when we compare 0-100 and 0-400 times, there really isn't much in it, is there, so much so that on any given day one might topple the other and vice versa, but when you talk about over all performance it's a different ball game, the Falcon has it over the Commodore, but like all pub talk crap all people like to hear about and read is the fast fiqures, 0-100 and 0-400, so thats all we can do, I have posted some link's now whether people choose to read them or not, I don't care but they are data that is easily sourced from this discusion.
The question was asked.

galaxy xr8 · 13-08-2011, 01:23 AM

I don't believe Ford introduced the I6T as a mean's of combating the LS1, it was a mean's of attracting a new generation/bread or market that would have otherwised been looking at the likes of a WRX or EVO, alot like why they Ford and FPV introduced themselves into the world of drifting at some event's.
They were trying to take a slice of pie from the Rice brigade, as at the time the WRX and EVO were all the craze.
It did steal sales from their sibling's the XR8 but it was a very strong market that they wanted to follow, I don't believe it was more so because of the LS1.

RAPID_BA · 13-08-2011, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

/Galaxy XR8, you really expect anyone to find links dating back to VT2 days? I don't think you'll find these anywhere.

Why did Ford act with the 220kW 5.0 Windsor, and the 5.6 in the T3s? Beyond that, what instigated the Boss 260s, 290s, and Turbos?
The answer is quite simple; Ford were always behind when it came to performance. They were playing catch up to Holden for a long time. Holden were the aggressor.

When the Ford V8 returned with the EB it was 165kW (and barring the 200kW EB/EL GTs and Sprint, and later the 5.0 T-series) the mainstream performance models remained hovering around the 185kW mark up to AU, in '99. That's 20kW increase in 6/7 years. The turning point and catalyst that brought on the big power from Ford was Holden's decision to use the 220kW Gen3, even in the executive. So in the space of a few years Ford go from 185kW to 260kW.

The big question is, if it weren't for Holden using the Gen 3, would Ford have put any serious work into their performance vehicles, OR, would they have just increased the power by another 20kW over another 6 to 7 years?

I think that is the whole point.

Even the VT1 GTS owners who paid through the nose for 215kW weren't happy that you could then get more power for a third of the price they paid the day before. People wanting by Tickfords during that time couldn't get more than 220kW, and how much were they paying? The HSVs with the LS1 (and C4B) were untouchable (up until the 5.6).

It's not hard to forget the low to mid 14s for a standard 220kW Gen 3 Executive, don't have links, and I don't think anyone will find a link going back that far. However anyone who followed these events at the time would know this to be fact. The point being made is in the modern era that was the turning point, there's no denying that.

It (the Gen3) received rave reviews and won most if not all comparos, and the journos knew how to rub it in. Their popularity was quite high and I personally remember the heartache that we Ford lovers went through. Yes, it's not about straight line speed. No, it is about straight line speed. Hold on a minute, I think it isn't. I see, It depends on whether it suits our argument at the time.

When it comes to p'ing contests and historical moments, it's always been about power. Even Tickford agreed by screwing 220kW out of the 5.0 and giving us the 5.6.

falc'man for president....

Falc'man · 13-08-2011, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

I don't believe Ford introduced the I6T as a mean's of combating the LS1, it was a mean's of attracting a new generation/bread or market that would have otherwised been looking at the likes of a WRX or EVO, alot like why they Ford and FPV introduced themselves into the world of drifting at some event's.
They were trying to take a slice of pie from the Rice brigade, as at the time the WRX and EVO were all the craze.
It did steal sales from their sibling's the XR8 but it was a very strong market that they wanted to follow, I don't believe it was more so because of the LS1.

I honestly don't know what Ford's actual intentions were, that could have been it. The other story is the Ford engineers wanted this from way before BA to spearhead Ford's performance models. Sanity prevailed and we ended up with both that and the Boss. You can't not have a V8 in the line-up, they learnt that from the 80's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

Why did Holden act with the Gen III ?
Why did holden up their power stakes ?
It goes both way's mate.

Doesn't that prove the point; they were the FIRST to act. THEY initiated the power surge. Up until that point both were on par and nothing offered from either manufacturer was overly game-breaking. They all had 185kW or less. The VT SS could be optioned with a 195kW HSV spec motor. Other than that there was nothing happening unless we start talking about the VS GTS-R, VT1 GTS, and Group A SS before them. They were all considered as top dogs. Ford sat on their hands with 185kW and then Holden slaps them in the face with 220kW in a povo pack Commodore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

A lot of people like to look at the number's game and play the number's game, Ford and Holden have been leap frogging each other since the fight started between the two.
So just because a vehicle is "badged" as a higher number, it automatically mean's it's quicker does it ?.

Where were you when the Gen 3 was released? It smashed anything Ford had to offer. The only saving grace for the 185kW Windsor was that it head better bottom end torque but, rightly or wrongly, that hardly won it any bragging rights because what really won the comparos was the 5.7's top end power, and the overall consensus was the Gen 3 was the be all and end all during that era, according to all the motoring critics.
Due to this fact alone Ford decided to act. They gave us 220kW XR8, which proved it better than the SS. Not because it handled better, it always did, but because it now offered power to match the SS. Same story with T-Series VS the Clubsport/R8.

Quote:

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

Really bewteen the two rival's when we compare 0-100 and 0-400 times, there really isn't much in it, is there, so much so that on any given day one might topple the other and vice versa,

The 185kW Windsor didn't stand a chance in the eyes of the journos against the Gen 3. It was more than several tenths slower. And consequently that is where the battle is run and won, in the hands of the press. They're the critics. They have the greatest influence in how people perceive the products that are tested. And, sales proved this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

but when you talk about over all performance it's a different ball game, the Falcon has it over the Commodore, but like all pub talk crap all people like to hear about and read is the fast fiqures, 0-100 and 0-400, so thats all we can do, I have posted some link's now whether people choose to read them or not, I don't care but they are data that is easily sourced from this discusion.
The question was asked.

I agree with you 100% on this. In fact I would rather just sit in any Windsor and just hear it idle than drive a Gen 3.
The AU XR8 were was a better handling car than the VTSS. In fact it was superior.

Don't get me wrong, the whole debate is about when - in the history of our local performance vehicles - was the moment that instigated a plethora of great, affordable performance cars. What was the game-changer? What changed the face?
Today you have that face, which includes the following;
You have 270kW XR6T and SS', both under $50K.. How much was the 185kW XR8?
You have 315kW "XR8" GS. Under $60k. How much did people pay for 300kW of C4B GTS?
You have 317kW, 325kW HSVs.
And you have a "335kW" GT (which was a waste of 40 million development dollars, FPV should have focused on suspension instead).
This is what the face is today.
How did all this come about? In other words, who through the first real punch? It wasn't Ford by getting back into the V8 scene with the EB.
It wasn't the XR GT that shaped today's face, not for Ford, anyway, because they rejected their own heritage in '82.
I maybe looking at it the wrong way but when I look back at it all Ford only got their act together when they figured out what a simple crate motor could do for Holden. Just my view of it.

RAPID_BA · 13-08-2011, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

I don't believe Ford introduced the I6T as a mean's of combating the LS1, it was a mean's of attracting a new generation/bread or market that would have otherwised been looking at the likes of a WRX or EVO, alot like why they Ford and FPV introduced themselves into the world of drifting at some event's.
They were trying to take a slice of pie from the Rice brigade, as at the time the WRX and EVO were all the craze.
It did steal sales from their sibling's the XR8 but it was a very strong market that they wanted to follow, I don't believe it was more so because of the LS1.

Today im flabbergasted how someone could ever buy a e3 hsv gts over the fg gt boss 335 at same price. just cant ever understand as the boss 335 offers so much more. the purpose of buying the top dog is the more power/speed...it has to be. Dont mean the e3 is no good just the boss 335 offers more.

But back in the vt2 when ls1 was released it was the other way round. thanks ford for responding

Romulus · 13-08-2011, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

/Galaxy XR8, you really expect anyone to find links dating back to VT2 days? I don't think you'll find these anywhere.

Why did Ford act with the 220kW 5.0 Windsor, and the 5.6 in the T3s? Beyond that, what instigated the Boss 260s, 290s, and Turbos?
The answer is quite simple; Ford were always behind when it came to performance. They were playing catch up to Holden for a long time. Holden were the aggressor.

When the Ford V8 returned with the EB it was 165kW (and barring the 200kW EB/EL GTs and Sprint, and later the 5.0 T-series) the mainstream performance models remained hovering around the 185kW mark up to AU, in '99. That's 20kW increase in 6/7 years. The turning point and catalyst that brought on the big power from Ford was Holden's decision to use the 220kW Gen3, even in the executive. So in the space of a few years Ford go from 185kW to 260kW.

The big question is, if it weren't for Holden using the Gen 3, would Ford have put any serious work into their performance vehicles, OR, would they have just increased the power by another 20kW over another 6 to 7 years?

I think that is the whole point.

Even the VT1 GTS owners who paid through the nose for 215kW weren't happy that you could then get more power for a third of the price they paid the day before. People wanting by Tickfords during that time couldn't get more than 220kW, and how much were they paying? The HSVs with the LS1 (and C4B) were untouchable (up until the 5.6).

It's not hard to forget the low to mid 14s for a standard 220kW Gen 3 Executive, don't have links, and I don't think anyone will find a link going back that far. However anyone who followed these events at the time would know this to be fact. The point being made is in the modern era that was the turning point, there's no denying that.

It (the Gen3) received rave reviews and won most if not all comparos, and the journos knew how to rub it in. Their popularity was quite high and I personally remember the heartache that we Ford lovers went through. Yes, it's not about straight line speed. No, it is about straight line speed. Hold on a minute, I think it isn't. I see, It depends on whether it suits our argument at the time.

When it comes to p'ing contests and historical moments, it's always been about power. Even Tickford agreed by screwing 220kW out of the 5.0 and giving us the 5.6.

Spot on.

I bought a VT2 GENIII back in Dec '99. Auto, cruise, pursuit wheels and electric windows (HBD kit without the alloys). I took it to the drags, it ran 14.46 @ 102-103mph, stock as a rock. Was fun handing VTI GTS drivers their **** in a car half the price, and being in the WA HSV Club back then ther were a LOT of ****ed off 5.0 and 5.7l VT1 owners out there realising Holden had just bastardised the resale of their cars.

I think the FG XR6T/G6ET deserves a mention if it hasn't been done so already. A high 12, low 13 second 400m capable car for mid $40's to low $50's is bloody fast. Add all the creature comforts they come with and they are a great vehicle. The G6ET is a killer in a cardigan imo. I've a great amount of appreciation for it. If it wasn't for me getting the F6 at only a couple of grand more than a G6ET I'd have bought one.

Peter B - CV8 · 13-08-2011, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Today im flabbergasted how someone could ever buy a e3 hsv gts over the fg gt boss 335 at same price. just cant ever understand as the boss 335 offers so much more. the purpose of buying the top dog is the more power/speed...it has to be. Dont mean the e3 is no good just the boss 335 offers more.

But back in the vt2 when ls1 was released it was the other way round. thanks ford for responding

Maybe people prefer to go with a proven product ??? I've always avoided buying the "first model" of anything - better to give the car maker a chance to iron out the major wrinkles/issues. In LS1 version - this meant waiting until oil slap/consumption problems were resolved (revised piston/ring combination in 2004). In the case of the Boss 335, I would want the tyre/drivetrain package enhanced - so that that wonderful power could be better transferred to the ground. Also there's been a few waterpump issues as well...

Donny · 13-08-2011, 01:06 PM

I think Fords concept for the hotter i6 started to take shape around the first of the XR6's (EB/ED??).. Back in EF/EL time, the cops loved the XR6's for general duty and highway patrol cars, and they were received pretty well by the general population too.
They were finally a viable power alternative to the V8 at less cost to buy, run, register and maintain.
I think the concept of the hot i6's just evolved from the first E series XR6's to what became the turbo offerings of today.. It was a performance idea that also tapped into the lucrative ricer segment with the later turbo offerings.. Holdens never had a decent 6 after they turfed the Nissan one. They tried the supercharged V6, but that had little success overall..

Ford certainly won out big time back in the AU era when it came to chassis and handelling etc.. The IRS setup on the Holdens back then was very primitive and basic. In todays FPV's vs the HSV stuff, the GT's are finally up power wise, but down come chassis and traction development.. Their down on mod cons too, but their not really relevant to performance. It just shows where HSV have been doing it longer and have more gorillas to spend on R & D, plus they can draw on any cool stuff in the GM parts bins..

FGII-XR6 · 13-08-2011, 01:37 PM

The question is a hard one really as there have been a few cars that fit this over the years
the first GT falcons showed we could produce home grown performance cars
the LC/LJ toranas and the six pack chargers were our first real performance cars that weren't V8s

the brock HDT cars were our first factory backed performance enhanced cars this was the start of what we have today in FPV and HSV what a legacy to leave behind

although there have been some nice cars after this the next truly groundbreaking cars were the BA turbo 6. Untill this time we have never had a 6 cylinder car that was a true V8 alternative to the extent that ford V8 sales declined. lets face it we have a 6 now in FPV trim that will make a GT work hard to pull away from it. A guy I worked with recently went out recently looking for an SS ute , nothing else would do for him. he was talked into driving an XR6 turbo ute by a salesman and this guy who still says holden are No1 is driving an XR6 turbo ute, I still give him heaps about that

although some may argue that holden have had some recent cars that fit the bill I would argue that their logic of late is bore it out and fit bigger pistons. constantly upsizing the engine to get more power isn't groundbreaking it is old school thinking. The most recent ford offerings have been using technology to get more out of smaller engines even in their V8

don't get me wrong Holden have made some good performance cars over the years but currently Ford are heading in the right direction ( smaller engines with BIG power )

cartaa100 · 13-08-2011, 01:39 PM

im going to have to say the ba fpv gt and f6, ever since then fpv's and hsv's have been upping the performance and have brought standards close to those of amg mpower and s line.

gtxb67 · 13-08-2011, 02:10 PM

in my opinion the model t and maybe a few cars afterwards change the face/game of anything. the rest were just answers to a vehicle that was already in place to sell cars - nothing special, just what was expected

cars do not change the face of anything. designers and those in charge of manufacturing and running the companies do . . . henry himself, lee iococca and others have changed the face of many things, but not cars in my opinion

it is like saying actual songs changed the face of music . . . no, they didn't, but the writers/artists did

Angeldust · 13-08-2011, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

Why did Holden act with the Gen III ?
Why did holden up their power stakes ?
It goes both way's mate.
A lot of people like to look at the number's game and play the number's game, Ford and Holden have been leap frogging each other since the fight started between the two.
So just because a vehicle is "badged" as a higher number, it automatically mean's it's quicker does it ?.
Really between the two rival's when we compare 0-100 and 0-400 times, there really isn't much in it, is there, so much so that on any given day one might topple the other and vice versa, but when you talk about over all performance it's a different ball game, the Falcon has it over the Commodore, but like all pub talk crap all people like to hear about and read is the fast fiqures, 0-100 and 0-400, so thats all we can do, I have posted some link's now whether people choose to read them or not, I don't care but they are data that is easily sourced from this discusion.
The question was asked.

The LS1 and the c4B was used as a way for holden to finally compete with the euro's of the time.Holden hasn't been looking at Ford as the competition, but a much more sophisticated euromarket.

Remember the vtii gts at nrurburgring? GTS vs M5 vs E55

RAPID_BA · 13-08-2011, 10:32 PM

At the end of the day both holden and Ford were not getting sufficient power from their v8s in 90s.

Holden efi started at 165kw to 168kw and then 179kw in 10th years... Wow
Ford went 165kw to 172kw to 185kw in 8 yrs.

Then ls1 comes and both Ford and holden in the space of 4 yrs go to 250kw-260kw.

fmc351 · 14-08-2011, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

At the end of the day both holden and Ford were not getting sufficient power from their v8s in 90s.

Holden efi started at 165kw to 168kw and then 179kw in 10th years... Wow
Ford went 165kw to 172kw to 185kw in 8 yrs.

Then ls1 comes and both Ford and holden in the space of 4 yrs go to 250kw-260kw.

Theres more to it than that.

What was the economy like then, compared to the preceding 8-10 yrs? How well were performance V8's selling prior? What did mum and dad want in a car?

Maybe some other things changed and Holden saw it first. So its just they were first, and not that they changed the game. Maybe it was pure luck the earlier donk was no longer suitable due to emissions and GM just happened to have the LS1 in stock.

**DJM83** · 14-08-2011, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angeldust

The LS1 and the c4B was used as a way for holden to finally compete with the euro's of the time.Holden hasn't been looking at Ford as the competition, but a much more sophisticated euromarket.

Remember the vtii gts at nrurburgring? GTS vs M5 vs E55

And they were dreaming thinking they could compete with the euros

Falc'man · 15-08-2011, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angeldust

The LS1 and the c4B was used as a way for holden to finally compete with the euro's of the time.Holden hasn't been looking at Ford as the competition, but a much more sophisticated euromarket.

Remember the vtii gts at nrurburgring? GTS vs M5 vs E55

Mentioning the VT GTS and M5/E55 together is amusing. Yes I remember the article. When I bought the magazine from the newsagent he pointed to the cover of the magazine and said "how stupid is this? look at the panel gaps in the commodore, you cannot compare it to the Euros.", or something to that effect.

The next gen HSV's, though, will certainly raise the bar to a new level. The direction they're taking will be different; it'll make the bogan next door want to take up lessons in upper class linguistics.
FPV will need serious Ford attention (in the way of approvals) for them to be even on the same page as HSV.

T-Pak Addict · 15-08-2011, 06:49 AM

I grew in the the heys days of watching Bathurst on TV with the old man... Seen the highs and lows of that era... I remember thinking of the Cooper S mini's taking out 9/10 places one year (64?) The XR GT being introduced brought V8 racing to our lives and wasn't it just unreal with the V8's rumbling up the mountain. It was an awsome fight between Holden and Ford. Holden just couldnt beat them, and they took a little history lesson I think, thinking that was the reason Holden went with the 6 pot Torry against the big V8's as they knew then nothing they had at the time could match them... Like the mini proved didnt need a 6 to beat the 6 boys of the time.... Then came the supercar scare and that shelved some awe inspiring cars of the time... the Phase 4, the E55 Charger, the V8 LJ.... The one car that did it for me back then was the A9X, god that was an awsome car. Brocky carving up the mountain to win by 6 laps and post the lap record on the last lap... They were great times and we will never see anything like those times again.....

The XR GT was the start, it was a game changer, so was the the LS1 in the poor mans car, in modern times the XR6T, Now the GT 335 is the Question, how will Holden answer???

But another question..... when will it all stop? when will someone high up go enough is enough? Are we heading for another supercar scare? The cars we have now are so much faster than their 1972 countparts, safer but still a hell of alot quicker......

gtxb67 · 15-08-2011, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-Pak Addict

The one car that did it for me back then was the A9X, god that was an awsome car. Brocky carving up the mountain to win by 6 laps and post the lap record on the last lap

i personally cannot get that much out of the a9x's racing attributes. it was a fairly new car that was developed specifically for racing. it was racing against a design that had come to the end of its development two years earlier. it weighed 350 kgs less than the said car, plus 250 kgs less than the camaro. it's record at bathurst in 79 shows just how fragile it still was. the fact brock took the lap record on the last lap, meant that he wasn't really trying for the rest of the race. also the car that finished third was a privateer that would have had no hope of finishing there if the rest of the torana's had not had a huge amount of problems that day. the only impressive car out there that day was brock's and with the amount of money being thrown at that car, it had to be. while he was a great driver, he had to do alot wrong to lose that day - which was all down to him and the team, not necessarily the car itself

T-Pak Addict · 15-08-2011, 08:17 AM

The A9X was just an awsome looking car in race or street trim and was the last coupe Holden made til the Manaro.... I loved the big Birds too....

Thats the problem these days.... Not enough coupes....

Poetic Justice · 15-08-2011, 11:41 AM

I must admit when I think about this question I think of recent times, only because im 26yo.

Thus, my first thought was VT2 GTS... the first Australian offered car that offered 300kw... it was amazing, to anyone who was into cars.

More recently the turbo XR6 has certainly been the hero.

RAPID_BA · 15-08-2011, 01:36 PM

When I first heard 300kw (in vt2 days) I was stunned. Back in 2000 that was a hell of a lot of power, even 11 years on hsv has only managed another 25kw despite the bigger displacement.

Ford was stunned at that time like me, the ls1 in its most feeble state at 220kw tortured anything they (ford) have and then the GTS came with a massive 300kw to flog a dead horse. It was like a ufc fight with one getting pounded on the ground but no referee intervention.