Aussies dead in Shot down plane crash over Ukraine.

[BHDOGS]

The truth is russia is fragmenting it always has and always will hell most of the eastern parts of russia has always had more asians then russians in it. Not to mention the smaller states who have split of or gained independence hes an old school man trying to use an iron fist to maintain and rebuild russias strength he doesnt get being iron man doesnt work anymore the worlds moved on. Public opinion is now stronger then any army over time and it has turned against him.

[BHDOGS]

Originally Posted by castellan

Putin is a great man ! he is more of a man than any other in the world today, it is not his fault at all.

What do you think he could do ?
Most of the people are Russians and they want to be united as one with Russia.

The USA should of kept out of this from the start and the whole thing would be over before now.

The USA has a stupid fool agenda they are playing games with, and it has only put the world steeping backwards ( they only do more harm to the poorest people not the rich at all ) with all there rubbish.

I say give it up USA and leave it to people in there own back yard to deal with like west Europe as they know what and how to deal with it all, not the USA as they are just so full of themselves to come in ranting and raving ( don't embarrass us ) take a hike ! the bastards don't respect that people could of ended up getting killed, and that's the main thing I see, not don't embarrass us, don't embarrass us !

The Media are so full of themselves but, hey all this make them big money they love it.

I understand the whole thing but this was not the way to deal with it all from the first place and it's stuff like such that can spark big wars and I sure as hell don't want that.
If it was not for Putin who is in control, boy you would want to look out ! we are not dealing with a little pip squeak nation hear, to be just treated like some school boy ! because they have the ability to walk straight through you.

Im afraid you are very far of the mark you need to read up more on the history that has lead to this with the vote rigging and interference by russia to see where the problem stems from to begin with.

[CoupeKing]

Putin is a very cunning Billionaire. He knows not only what Russia is capable of, but more importantly what he can get away with. Like to know how these sanctions are working, considering he recently signed a $400 Billion gas deal with the Chinese. He will always want Ukraine for numerous reasons, one being its the last major frontier to the west. Its natural barriers make it almost impossible for a sustained ground attack. Plenty of History with these two.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Plenty are saying NATO should move in and secure the site, but really, is anyone naive enough to belief these so called 'thugs' are really that?

It's been obvious that the Russian military is supplying weapons and people, so if NATO go in they are in effect going up against the might of the Russian army.


Would people support Abbott sending in Australian troops? To help secure the area.


As for Putin being caught between a rock and a hard place, well, I'd suggest if that true then that's a very very bad thing for the rest of us.
An animal is most dangerous when cornered, Putin would come out fighting no matter what. And he has the capability to cause a lot harm to a lot of people.

Come out fighting, who is Vlad going to fight? Australia? USA? NATO?

WW3 over a 777 and 289 people - don't think so.

Vlad is finished, he's desperately trying to bury this but there is too much evidence of Russian involvement. Russia needs access to the west and our money more than it needs Vlad and East Ukraine. The Russian's tolerated Vlad's proxy war, but like all wars it got out of hand. The Russians will attribute all blame to Putin, he has a lot of enemies within Russia (probably more than outside).

Just remember our PM first called out Vlad, finally with few so called leaders begrudgingly coming on board. Our PM is using the rule of law against a world class thug. As for the cry-babies let them cry.

[BHDOGS]

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

Putin is a very cunning Billionaire. He knows not only what Russia is capable of, but more importantly what he can get away with. Like to know how these sanctions are working, considering he recently signed a $400 Billion gas deal with the Chinese. He will always want Ukraine for numerous reasons, one being its the last major frontier to the west. Its natural barriers make it almost impossible for a sustained ground attack. Plenty of History with these two.

Quite correct if you look at a map of the european union you will see turkey the urkaine and maldova are the only major hold outs left bringing the eu and reducing russians influence directly to his door step they buy his gas if he cuts the supply they fall over but so does the russian economy just like china and american one supplys one buys they need each other even if it is begrudingly.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by castellan

Putin is a great man ! he is more of a man than any other in the world today, it is not his fault at all.

What do you think he could do ?
Most of the people are Russians and they want to be united as one with Russia.

The USA should of kept out of this from the start and the whole thing would be over before now.

The USA has a stupid fool agenda they are playing games with, and it has only put the world steeping backwards ( they only do more harm to the poorest people not the rich at all ) with all there rubbish.

I say give it up USA and leave it to people in there own back yard to deal with like west Europe as they know what and how to deal with it all, not the USA as they are just so full of themselves to come in ranting and raving ( don't embarrass us ) take a hike ! the bastards don't respect that people could of ended up getting killed, and that's the main thing I see, not don't embarrass us, don't embarrass us !

The Media are so full of themselves but, hey all this make them big money they love it.

I understand the whole thing but this was not the way to deal with it all from the first place and it's stuff like such that can spark big wars and I sure as hell don't want that.
If it was not for Putin who is in control, boy you would want to look out ! we are not dealing with a little pip squeak nation hear, to be just treated like some school boy ! because they have the ability to walk straight through you.

Comrade, why don't you go live there, if the reds & Putin are the bees knees?

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by castellan

Putin is a great man ! he is more of a man than any other in the world today, it is not his fault at all.

What do you think he could do ?
Most of the people are Russians and they want to be united as one with Russia.

The USA should of kept out of this from the start and the whole thing would be over before now.

The USA has a stupid fool agenda they are playing games with, and it has only put the world steeping backwards ( they only do more harm to the poorest people not the rich at all ) with all there rubbish.

I say give it up USA and leave it to people in there own back yard to deal with like west Europe as they know what and how to deal with it all, not the USA as they are just so full of themselves to come in ranting and raving ( don't embarrass us ) take a hike ! the bastards don't respect that people could of ended up getting killed, and that's the main thing I see, not don't embarrass us, don't embarrass us !

The Media are so full of themselves but, hey all this make them big money they love it.

I understand the whole thing but this was not the way to deal with it all from the first place and it's stuff like such that can spark big wars and I sure as hell don't want that.
If it was not for Putin who is in control, boy you would want to look out ! we are not dealing with a little pip squeak nation hear, to be just treated like some school boy ! because they have the ability to walk straight through you.

Are you joking? So we should just stand back while a thug (Putin) militarily takes over another country? Hes not even doing it up front, he's hiding behind hired thugs (separatists)..
The US isn't leading anything at the moment, if anything Australia is and pushing the UN to come to the party.

I can't believe I replied to the troll..

[nstg8a]

There is no disputing the Russian military is a shadow of it's former self, but that's still a large formidable shadow.

As for standing back while Putin takes over a country militarily... Well, remember Afghanistan, Iraq? Or the wests own proxy war in Syria?
Gaza?

Seems it's supporting freedom when the west does it

[BHDOGS]

Just because one country does something doesnt mean it should there fore be allowed forever why not let china set up shop here to follow your logic after all america did it.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Sometimes you have to show you got balls. Maybe this is the time? Rather than sitting back being dictated to in fear of upsetting the bullies, even if its just some heated words or some resilience, it should be done and strongly.

Really ..... people fight for lesser things. This is something that does need to be pursued even if you are the kinder kids taking on the High School blokes.

Show that this isn't acceptable and prove to those that are effected by this that we have some balls and wills stand up when required ..... even if it does mean upsetting a few countries.

Do we only get tough with small countries? That is not how it should work. I would hope that the country would be behind me if I was personally effected.

If the Government had any balls they would be on the phone to the Ukraine and Russian Governments telling them WTF? You have a week to get this cleared up or we're coming in and collecting the bodies ourselves.

Instead we're shaming the Russian Ambassador and talking tough.

Send the SAS in there, clean up the site and allow the investigators in, if we can identify our dead we'll take them back home to be buried.

Ukraine would probably welcome a foreign nation to come in and clean up the site.

Rather our Government wants to talk tough to everyone without doing anything to back up their tough talk, VLAD, YOU AINT COMING TO G20!!!!

We seem to like talking tough and pretending like we matter on the world stage, but if the USA or UK says to us to jump we don't even ask how high, we just do it.

We're just some barren desolate island nation on the *** end of the world who likes to talk tough to everyone but still bows down to our masters and talks nasty to China but relies on them to keep our economy going and condemns Russia but sells them Uranium.

We invaded Turkey

We invaded Afghanistan

We invaded Iraq

Now we've got 30 dead Aussies and we won't do anything about it, didn't have any dead Aussies when we invaded the other three?

Malaysian Airways seems awfully quiet on the whole situation too.

Maybe the Government did speak to Vlad and they come to a conclusion over the phone, Tony has to act tough to save face and Vlad has no problem with it and understands why, Russian Ambassador is over there just roast him publically, make some threats, I won't turn up to G20 and pretend like you banned me and it'll smooth over when everyone forgets about it, oh and thanks for the Uranium.

[Bobman]

It's the rebels who are preventing the bodies being moved.

Putin has control over these rebels. It's not hard to factor why everyone turned so quickly against the USSR (nothing has changed, let's face it).

[Cashie]

I think we've done plenty, Abbott has manned up and told Putin what he thinks, without the support of the US, UK or UN.. We were the first government to say a spades a spade, the rest have followed us. I think we have played this political game very well to date. We have drafted and presented a resolution on Russia to the UN, pretty big move I reckon.
Btw, Abbott has been on the phone to the Russians and Ukraines. Abbott hasn't just shamed the local Ambassador, he's called out Putin..
What more do you want from us?
Yeah, go in there with the SAS, that would be a smart move.. You do understand world politics don't you?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Cashie

Yeah, go in there with the SAS, that would be a smart move.. You do understand world politics don't you?

All talk no action, like the NUW.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Malaysian Airways seems awfully quiet on the whole situation too.

Yes, why were they flying over hostile territory when ICAO advised airlines last April to deviate around the war zone, where missiles were known to be operating.

Cathay, Qantas, British Airways etc were complying with this advice, but unfortunately Malaysia and Thai continued to fly over the region to save fuel and time.

The lawyers are on to it, today I was reading that a top international aviation lawyer said Malaysia Airlines should be excluded from the investigation as it ignored these warnings about flying over the Ukraine war zone. He said the tragic loss of two of Malaysia Airlines aircraft in a short space of time questions their operational competency.

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

All talk no action, like the NUW.

No action? I did 21 years for my country, how many have you done?
NUW, is that the National Union of Workers? Yeah, as a military man I'm really into unions too..

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Cashie

No action? I did 21 years for my country, how many have you done?
NUW, is that the National Union of Workers? Yeah, as a military man I'm really into unions too..

None, because I'm not stupid enough to be someone elses political tool and go gallivanting around someone elses country spilling blood because of what someone in Canberra orders me to do.

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Yes, why were they flying over hostile territory when ICAO advised airlines last April to deviate around the war zone, where missiles were known to be operating.

Cathay, Qantas, British Airways etc were complying with this advice, but unfortunately Malaysia and Thai continued to fly over the region to save fuel and time.

The lawyers are on to it, today I was reading that a top international aviation lawyer said Malaysia Airlines should be excluded from the investigation as it ignored these warnings about flying over the Ukraine war zone. He said the tragic loss of two of Malaysia Airlines aircraft in a short space of time questions their operational competency.

This isn't as cut and dry as it first appeared, the NOTAM on the area was to the south over Crimea, there were only restrictions where this occurred under 33000ft, MH was above this. Many airlines were still flying this same route..
Hindsight is 20/20 though, no airline should have been within 300Nm of where this occurred.

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Yes, why were they flying over hostile territory when ICAO advised airlines last April to deviate around the war zone, where missiles were known to be operating.

ICAO approved the flight path and MH17 was 1000 feet above the restriction. ICAO approved FL330.

Ukrainian ATC denied the plane's intended altitude of FL350.

Besides all that, you had India's PM fly in the area as well as an Air India and Singapore jet amongst others in the vicinity.

You guys can go on about fuel savings, but it's the passengers in air travel who demand dirt cheap prices and fuel savings and then whinge if it's too high.

Qantas is not a low-cost carrier either, so you would only expect them to deviate based on their safety reputation.

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

None, because I'm not stupid enough to be someone elses political tool and go gallivanting around someone elses country.

You say Australia isn't being hard enough and that we are pussies and then claim those serving in our military are stupid? Great argument.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Cashie

You say Australia isn't being hard enough and that we are pussies and then claim those serving in our military are stupid? Great argument.

I just pointed out the irony that we are all talk, Mr Tony Tough talker but no action behind the words.

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I just pointed out the irony that we are all talk, Mr Tony Tough talker but no action behind the words.

We are currently still leading the world with action on this tragedy (reread my post 253).
Putin is still spitting out Abbott's name every time he is on TV.

The irony is your hypocrisy.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Cashie

We are currently still leading the world with action on this tragedy (reread my post 253).
Putin is still spitting out Abbott's name every time he is on TV.

The irony is your hypocrisy.

Hypocrisy from me?

I'm not the one who orders invasions of two countries in recent history that have nothing to do with us then sits on my hands when our people are murdered in another.

[metalmania]

Has anyone bothered to question as to how quick certain governments of this world , have all this evidence, have phone intercepts, have satellite images , have video evidence etc etc 1-2 days after this incident , yet all the so-called experts have got no idea what happened to flight MH370.

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by metalmania

Has anyone bothered to question as to how quick certain governments of this world , have all this evidence, have phone intercepts, have satellite images , have video evidence etc etc 1-2 days after this incident , yet all the so-called experts have got no idea what happened to flight MH370.

MH17 went down in one of the most "watched" areas on earth. It appears MH370 may not have.

[metalmania]

http://www.thedailysheeple.com/what-...irliner_072014

[BHDOGS]

Can't we ever have one thread without the conspiracy theory's and American hatred throw in some people here really need to catch up on reality and research this properly instead of swining in at the last minute believing bullshit like the link above.

[brismike]

Originally Posted by Cashie

We are currently still leading the world with action on this tragedy (reread my post 253).
Putin is still spitting out Abbott's name every time he is on TV.

The irony is your hypocrisy.

Well I'm in the UK at the moment and there is absolutely no mention of Abbott taking Putin to task at all on the news here. The Pom news is full of David Cameron (UK PM) and his tough talk to Putin.

As far as the rest of the world is concerned Australia does not exist. After travelling around the USA and Europe and now the UK this is very plain to see.

We are a speck that no-one really cares about.

[metalmania]

Really ,i think you need to wake up.
You should be well aware of this pic in our papers and all the stupid headlines.Watch video and learn about what really happened in this incident.

http://rt.com/news/174332-ukraine-pl...oto-perverted/

[csv8]

"Flying under the radar…spot the scammers
July 22, 2014 at 10:02 am by Senior Constable Danielle Loftus

See_a_ScamWhilst Australian’s are still in shock and families are grieving over the recent Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 tragedy there are sadly scammers out there.

SCAMwatch has advised that scammers have set up false Facebook profiles for Australian victims of the tragedy in an attempt to make money from people interested in finding out more about this international tragedy. The profiles direct people to a blog, where they are then bombarded with dubious advertisements. If you click on the advertisement, consequences may arise, including compromising your computer’s security. Protect yourself online and report any scams to the ACCC via the SCAMwatch report a scam page or by calling 1300 795 995"
http://mypolice.qld.gov.au/bundaberg...spot-scammers/
What I think of this, Mods would delete and ban me for a few days...

[Mesa]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

None, because I'm not stupid enough to be someone elses political tool and go gallivanting around someone elses country spilling blood because of what someone in Canberra orders me to do.

Yet you and others like you forget that the freedoms and basic human rights you enjoy were afforded to you by the spilling of blood in this country and on foreign soils by those who had the guts to defend this country during WW2. If not for them you'd be cheap labor under a Japanese government.
People choose to defend this country today because they know cowards and internet keyboard warriors can't be trusted should the worst happen. No wonder I think my 16 years in Defence force was worthless......