December 2011 Sales

[martyk54]

Originally Posted by prydey

anyone buying a new car normally does their own research. advertising and marketing only needs to plant the seed to consider their brand. they don't need to tell every little detail. it would be pointless as no one would retain all that info from a ad anyway.

Well statistics (and my married friends / family) suggest that women predominantly make automotive purchasing decisions, or at least have the final word. They typically don't research anything. They'll have a look at a car and touch / feel it, get a 'feeling' about a certain car, while listening to what their friends think is cool. Any statistics other than a green or economy rating mean nothing to most women.

[MelsGolf]

Originally Posted by martyk54

Well statistics (and my married friends / family) suggest that women predominantly make automotive purchasing decisions, or at least have the final word. They typically don't research anything. They'll have a look at a car and touch / feel it, get a 'feeling' about a certain car, while listening to what their friends think is cool. Any statistics other than a green or economy rating mean nothing to most women.

Well i along with my girlfriends must be the exception then because we've all researched our car purchases beyond "pretty touchy feely" and put effort into making an informed choice.

Its not 1965, Women are no longer dumb subservient cooks, we have brains too.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by flappist

I wonder if this might be a contribution to the sales issue:

I am thinking of buying a new falcon, I wonder what owners think of them.

Oh look, AFF (Australia's leading Ford site).

Search....search....

Grumble, grumble, crap dealers, crap cars, break down, always the wrong models, marketing have no idea, nothing is good enough, too expensive, only buy second hand from auction, wrong engines, dealer servicing is a ripoff, holden this, holden that, holden the other, grumble whinge moan......

Ummm.... ok how about Mazda/Nissan/Toyota/(insert anything that is not Ford or Holden here).......

Search....search....

Apparently on the Toyota forums they talk about how their Hilux's whip the pants off BF XR6 Turbos at the lights, so it would appear to be a more upbeat place to visit...........? (stolen from the Hilux 0-100 thread)

[russellw]

The first set of monthly statistical data has been uploaded into the Tech Portal now.

The annual summaries will be up later.

Cheers
Russ

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by flappist

I wonder if this might be a contribution to the sales issue:

I am thinking of buying a new falcon, I wonder what owners think of them.

Oh look, AFF (Australia's leading Ford site).

Search....search....

Grumble, grumble, crap dealers, crap cars, break down, always the wrong models, marketing have no idea, nothing is good enough, too expensive, only buy second hand from auction, wrong engines, dealer servicing is a ripoff, holden this, holden that, holden the other, grumble whinge moan......

Ummm.... ok how about Mazda/Nissan/Toyota/(insert anything that is not Ford or Holden here).......

Search....search....

I'd laugh if the above wasn't true.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Iggle Piggle

But do we know for certain that those Falcon sales were at a profit, or did the locally produced vehicles drag down the overall profit and it was the imports that kept the overall figure looking good?

If someone knows for certain, then what is/was the magic number for an XR6 where the sale became profitable?

$30,990, the price they offer to Fleets.....

[russellw]

The second set of statistical data is now uploaded into the Tech portal. The annual review will be available tomorrow.

Cheers
Russ

[MrZ]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

Comparing apples and oranges mate. The wagons always keep the same body and rear throughout the life cycle. E.g. EA to EL, AU to BFIII. The Commodore wasn't a VT in 2007, it was a VZ wagon. The VE is just that. A VE. Series II is still a VE. No other Commodore, or Falcon for that matter, has gone 6 years without a model change.

The EA retained the same exact body from 1988-1994 - 6 years. Not a single panel changed in that time. Sure, it changed name EB, ED, etc, but are we talking about actual changes here, or irrelevant and often meaningless code names? Holden could have easily named the VE II the VF, and it would have been accepted.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

I think Aurion/Camry sales have disappeared too if Im not mistaken.

To be fair the Falcon/Territory figures should be added together in some ways because they share the same platform. So as long as the total figures of this local product are reasonable then it will perform okay in 2012. But they are throwing bugger all new features at the Falcon.

The terri got a diesel and recently got the 6-spd auto. The falcon has essentially run the same engine and gbox since about 2006. The 2008 FG had some nice tweaks, but doesnt look like it will be getting updates for a few more years...

There's supposed to be a more significant update next year, but beyond being planned for I know nothing much about it. A bit of sheetmetal, Territory headlights and changed interior?

If the update goes ahead it should carry Falcon through to 2015/16.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by flappist

I bought a new Ford in 2010,2005,2003, 2001,1998,1990,1986,1982 & 1977.
Admittedly they were not all falcons but there were all NEW.

Next one may or may not be this year, I am waiting to see what happens in the state election.

As I am sure you are not a hypocrite you can now tell us all how many NEW fords you have bought and when you are going to buy that shiny new ecolpi you have been raving about for the last 6 months.....

I've bought 2 new XR8's and a Territory Ghia, and i'm 31.

My brother has bought 4 new ones and my dad has bought 5 or 6 new ones in the past 10 years. So my family has done more than enough supporting Ford. Have had numerous other family members who have also done so.

Like you I plan on buying a new Falcon next year, hopefully with the new update supposedly due next year, but as I like my performance vehicles I will be buying an XR6 Turbo, although if I didn't want performance I would go for a G6E EcoLPi for sure.

The thing is I'm not telling people on AFF to not comment on them unless they own a new one, which is utter rubbish. Many people here would love to have a new one but life doesn't always put us in a position to do so.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The thing is I'm not telling people on AFF to not comment on them unless they own a new one, which is utter rubbish. Many people here would love to have a new one but life doesn't always put us in a position to do so.

No what you are doing is constantly whinging about.....well almost everything.

I have never said don't comment unless you own one as you are very aware.

What I have said on many occasions is that instead of constantly whinging and moaning about Ford or Falcon not doing whatever you think they should you could actually go out and do something about it even if it is just get your car serviced at a Ford dealer or talk up Falcons.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Davez621

The EA retained the same exact body from 1988-1994 - 6 years. Not a single panel changed in that time. Sure, it changed name EB, ED, etc, but are we talking about actual changes here, or irrelevant and often meaningless code names? Holden could have easily named the VE II the VF, and it would have been accepted.

Yes I was talking about 'meaningless' model codes. The fact that there were thousands of changes of changes between an EA and ED is irrelevant to you? Not just about panels.

[XR Martin]

If they can get a steady supply of Rangers, it will be the best selling Ford by middle of the year. Once the Thai Focus' come on board sales should increase also. Mondeo sales will stay the same. Kuga will probably be 100-200 sales a month. Fiesta will stay the same or slightly increase.
Territory wont increase and may even drop a little.
Falcon? EcoLpi, Ecoboost, and the updated model should help.

Overall Ford may take second place at the end of 2012, but shouldnt drop below 3rd.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by prydey

what about the members that are still living in the past and see ford as the falcon car company?? take your blinkers off. all large sedans are going the same direction. can't see the wood for the trees.

In regards to Australian manufacturing, they are the Falcon/Territory company. When I'm talking about Ford being in trouble, I'm talking about AUSTRALIAN manufacturing. What other cars do Ford manufacture here? Does that not concern you?

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

If they can get a steady supply of Rangers, it will be the best selling Ford by middle of the year. Once the Thai Focus' come on board sales should increase also. Mondeo sales will stay the same. Kuga will probably be 100-200 sales a month. Fiesta will stay the same or slightly increase.
Territory wont increase and may even drop a little.
Falcon? EcoLpi, Ecoboost, and the updated model should help.

Overall Ford may take second place at the end of 2012, but shouldnt drop below 3rd.

Good luck

[mik]

dec/jan i would`nt be taking any notice of at all , local companies shut up shop do maintenance usually, imports they can pull out of their napsac at any old time.
further into the year take notice, same blokes on this forum always with the doom.....you know who you are.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

I suspect it would be very hard to support to full production facility with 2700 Falcons and Territories, 500 Utes, and 300 exports (3500 in total). Unfortunately Ford doesnt pay rates, electricity, security services or even calculate alot of its depreciation, based on how many cars are made.

Ford has said the present situation is sustainable but not in the long term,
that is why it is crucial for Ford to aggressively pursue fleet sales with EcoLPI and
to grow new buyers with Ecoboost - that is an exciting prospect with a big car.

My suspicion is that Ford has taken the view that the investment cycle is over (ie no more invesment into cambellfield). Over the next few years, they can try and sell alot of cars for very little profit (with no guarantee they will), or they can try and get a return on money invested and try and sell fewer cars at higher profits. The end result is the same, its just how they want to go about getting there.

Given current product mix and transaction prices after release of SZ Territory and FGII,
the magic numbers are +2500 Falcons and +1500 Territory and +900 Ute (Around 5,000/mth)
Now, the other way to ease concerns is to build Mondeo here locally, that takes
the presure off the local production question and also allows Ford to keep Falcon
by plugging into Ford's global supplier network, that's where the real savings are.

The important part here is that a higher selling price only dribbles down to ford, and not the supplier base. Suppliers making 70 Falcon or territory specific parts a day wont be hangng around long enough for Ford to make a planned exit of the operations.

"One Ford" is key to Falcon survivability, switching to Ford's global supply network is essential.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

Yes I was talking about 'meaningless' model codes. The fact that there were thousands of changes of changes between an EA and ED is irrelevant to you? Not just about panels.

There was a significant amount of changes between EA and ED, a lot of them most people wouldn't even realise.

Although quite similar visually under the skin it's a whole 'nother ball game.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by jpd80

"One Ford" is key to Falcon survivability, switching to Ford's global supply network is essential.

Very true. They could save $200 a car by fitting an imported mondeo dash into a falcon. They could save $1500 by fitting an imported mondeo engine into the falcon, and they could probably save $300 by fitting imported mondeo seats in to the falcon. But i am guessing that some bright spark at Ford will probably think they can just save $5000 a car by parking a fully imported modeo at the dealership, instead of a Falcon.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by martyk54

Well statistics (and my married friends / family) suggest that women predominantly make automotive purchasing decisions, or at least have the final word. They typically don't research anything. They'll have a look at a car and touch / feel it, get a 'feeling' about a certain car, while listening to what their friends think is cool. Any statistics other than a green or economy rating mean nothing to most women.

so what engines do mazda offer in their range of vehicles? what engines to mitsibishi or toyota offer??

why is it so important to you that ford advertise/market specific engine details?


also, can you link me to these statistics or put them up on here for all to see.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Very true. They could save $200 a car by fitting an imported mondeo dash into a falcon. They could save $1500 by fitting an imported mondeo engine into the falcon, and they could probably save $300 by fitting imported mondeo seats in to the falcon. But i am guessing that some bright spark at Ford will probably think they can just save $5000 a car by parking a fully imported modeo at the dealership, instead of a Falcon.

if mondeo looked like falcon, it wouldn't bother me.

Originally Posted by eb2monty

In regards to Australian manufacturing, they are the Falcon/Territory company. When I'm talking about Ford being in trouble, I'm talking about AUSTRALIAN manufacturing. What other cars do Ford manufacture here? Does that not concern you?

imports still help to prop up the company. its not ideal and wouldn't be sustainable long term i would guess but many companies do not make profit with every segment.

i'm not bothered by whats happening with ford at the moment. i've been reading chicken little comments (the sky is falling...) for a long time now. falcon demise has been predicted for over 20 years now and its still here. i'm fairly confident it will be here for another few years and if it eventually makes way for a full import, then so be it. from what i've seen of ford's world cars, it will likely be a very good motor car.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Very true. They could save $200 a car by fitting an imported mondeo dash into a falcon. They could save $1500 by fitting an imported mondeo engine into the falcon, and they could probably save $300 by fitting imported mondeo seats in to the falcon. But i am guessing that some bright spark at Ford will probably think they can just save $5000 a car by parking a fully imported modeo at the dealership, instead of a Falcon.

You're looking generally in the right direction but the hierarchy for savings is power trains electrical systems
and maybe suspension modules. A huge amount of cash is saved at design and procurement stages by
plugging into these areas, not seats and trim, they come from China already.

Co development on the back of the 2014 mustang will see huge savings on another RWD Falcon.
Mondeo should be made in Australia, it would add 1,000 to1,500/mth production at +$29K

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Very true. They could save $200 a car by fitting an imported mondeo dash into a falcon. They could save $1500 by fitting an imported mondeo engine into the falcon, and they could probably save $300 by fitting imported mondeo seats in to the falcon. But i am guessing that some bright spark at Ford will probably think they can just save $5000 a car by parking a fully imported modeo at the dealership, instead of a Falcon.

And when the dollor drops back to .65 your business plan is stuffed!!!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

And when the dollor drops back to .65 your business plan is stuffed!!!

Avoiding unfavorable exchange rates and shipping has to be high on the list of priorities,
a car like Mondeo is viable at a $29K starting price adding 1000-1500/mth to Broadmeadows.

[jpd80]

Fiesta 802
Focus 1,539
Mondeo 438
Ute 394
Falcon 1,376
Territory 1,349

Ranger 4x4 +14.7%
Ranger 4x2 178

Escape 144

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Fiesta 802
Focus 1,539
Mondeo 438
Ute 394
Falcon 1,376
Territory 1,349

Ranger 4x4 +14.7%
Ranger 4x2 178

Escape 144

Soon the Ute and Caprice will be neck and neck.. I assume there was a factory shutdown??

[prydey]

wouldn't this be better in the december sales thread? i thought falcon ute sales were included in falcon sales and the ute sales are actually ranger sales.

[4.0i OHC]

Nice to see that the title of top-selling vehicle has come to a more deserving vehicle than the Commodore. Bewilderingly, the Commodore has managed to top sales charts since 1997 (with the deplorable VT).

Originally Posted by jpd80

Fiesta 802
Focus 1,539
Mondeo 438
Ute 394
Falcon 1,376
Territory 1,349

Ranger 4x4 +14.7%
Ranger 4x2 178

Escape 144

Wow, a disappointing month for the Mondeo. It's a car that deserves to do much better. However, how on earth does the Focus sell that highly? Not that I don't want it to sell well, but what exactly does it bring to the table compared to the rest of the class?

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by MelsGolf

Its not 1965, Women are no longer dumb subservient cooks, we have brains too.

And I for one, think woman with brains are better cooks.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by prydey

wouldn't this be better in the december sales thread? i thought falcon ute sales were included in falcon sales and the ute sales are actually ranger sales.

Utes are separate to the Falcon. Wagons are mixed with sedan sales.