First Drive: Falcon Ecoboost - Page 7

Grobbo · 08-12-2011, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99AUXR

hmmm I know many people will find it hard to go to I4, Are they still going to call it an XR6?

There's not gonna be an XR version anytime soon...

Joe5619 · 08-12-2011, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grobbo

There's not gonna be an XR version anytime soon...

That is a MASSIVE mistake by Ford if you ask me... The most inportant thing to happen to Falcon in decedes is not in there best selling model!!
Why, why??

jpd80 · 08-12-2011, 07:58 PM

Something to think about, Ford can set the Ecoboost 2.0 at any power level between 149Kw and 270Kw,
the European Ford RS team have had the Ecoboost 2.0 at a reliable 380 hp (283Kw).

Theoretically, this engine has the potential to replace both the I-6 and its turbo brother,
I don't see that happening in the immediate future but with the right set of circumstances,
Falcon could be remade as the big car that has class leading performance and fuel economy

flappist · 08-12-2011, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

That is a MASSIVE mistake by Ford if you ask me... The most inportant thing to happen to Falcon in decedes is not in there best selling model!!
Why, why??

There is still going to be a XR6 petrol, XR6 LPG and XR6T, it is just the T4 that does not have an XR permutation.

jpd80 · 08-12-2011, 08:06 PM

There's a good reason why Ford is not intending putting the EB 20 into XR6,
the expected take rate on the engine in that model is considered too low.

It's a case of boosting other models to take sales pressure off the XR

Venomous1 · 08-12-2011, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Something to think about, Ford can set the Ecoboost 2.0 at any power level between 149Kw and 270Kw,
the European Ford RS team have had the Ecoboost 2.0 at a reliable 380 hp (283Kw).

Theoretically, this engine has the potential to replace both the I-6 and its turbo brother,
I don't see that happening in the immediate future but with the right set of circumstances,
Falcon could be remade as the big car that has class leading performance and fuel economy

This will not happen.However ......
The current I6T is at anywhere between 300-325kw factory. Ford says 270

The regular I6 is at a more realistic 200kw factory. As ford says.

So in any form this 2.0 will be weaker as it's intended that way to be a fuel miser with enough go to not **** off customers The I6 and I6T will still be Champs.

If anything Ford in the future will go the V6 Twin Turbo route but eventually taking away the I6 and moving up the I4T will be a huge backward step for me personally but Ford have surprised me with some of their reasoning of late so you could also be correct in some form.

jpd80 · 08-12-2011, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venomous1

This will not happen.

Sorry, I forgot to clarify that thinking by linking what I said to post 2015 car, not E8.
By the time we're due for the new car, we could be in for serious weight reductions
and changes that make using smaller high performance I-4 and V6 engines a reality.

For now, Ecoboost is a better choice than a diesel because it has a lower buy in price,
has great fuel economy with conventional petrol, still the most popular fuel choice.

Buntz · 08-12-2011, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Sorry, I forgot to clarify that thinking by linking what I said to post 2015 car, not E8.
By the time we're due for the new car, we could be in for serious weight reductions
and changes that make using smaller high performance I-4 and V6 engines a reality.

For now, Ecoboost is a better choice than a diesel because it has a lower buy in price,
has great fuel economy with conventional petrol, still the most popular fuel choice.

Ford need to do what they said they will... which is incorporate more high-strength low-weight materials. CFRP, Nano steel, Aluminium. Plus there is only so much you can do for a large car. Ford say almost 50:50 weight balance now... just shy of 1700Kg's in XT trim. Not bad for something the size of a 5 series BMW

What do you know about an E8 replacement John?

jpd80 · 09-12-2011, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Ford need to do what they said they will... which is incorporate more high-strength low-weight materials. CFRP, Nano steel, Aluminium. Plus there is only so much you can do for a large car. Ford say almost 50:50 weight balance now... just shy of 1700Kg's in XT trim. Not bad for something the size of a 5 series BMW

Ecoboost has shaved 60Kg off the weight so Xt Ecoboost is around 1640 Kg, but if Ford were to
reduce strength in the frame because it doesn't have to support I-6T or V8 or tow 2300 Kg,
we might see another 50-60 kg shaved off. Now that would be getting very interesting...

vztrt · 09-12-2011, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Ford need to do what they said they will... which is incorporate more high-strength low-weight materials. CFRP, Nano steel, Aluminium. Plus there is only so much you can do for a large car. Ford say almost 50:50 weight balance now... just shy of 1700Kg's in XT trim. Not bad for something the size of a 5 series BMW

Ford have. They worked hard with the FG to keep the weight down. In the end the FG only put 17kg on over the B series.

Buntz · 09-12-2011, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Ford have. They worked hard with the FG to keep the weight down. In the end the FG only put 17kg on over the B series.

I know. FG is a step in the right direction. Aluminium double A arms in pivot link setup. Quite speccy for an aussie car.

But I don't think they need to cut down on frame strength... just more parts made from lighter materials.

Smoke Pursuit · 09-12-2011, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

That is a MASSIVE mistake by Ford if you ask me... The most inportant thing to happen to Falcon in decedes is not in there best selling model!!
Why, why??

Maybe to try and protect the XR brand a little... They have bashed and abused it since BA MKII... Its time to give it a rest and give some sales back to XT / G6 (in particular).

Buntz · 09-12-2011, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Maybe to try and protect the XR brand a little... They have bashed and abused it since BA MKII... Its time to give it a rest and give some sales back to XT / G6 (in particular).

I think it's so they won't have to spend time and money punching up the XR6 petrol to make an XR4 justifiable. The least Ford could do is fit it with PULP capable parts and recommend that fuel only. Tiny tune and hey 200kw.

I think an XR4 would be pretty cool though.

Falcons next upgrade should be an optional 8-speed ZF. Considering ZF have factory here. It'd be noteworthy research, and a great option for serious fuel savers.

FPV GTHO · 09-12-2011, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Something to think about, Ford can set the Ecoboost 2.0 at any power level between 149Kw and 270Kw,
the European Ford RS team have had the Ecoboost 2.0 at a reliable 380 hp (283Kw).

Theoretically, this engine has the potential to replace both the I-6 and its turbo brother,
I don't see that happening in the immediate future but with the right set of circumstances,
Falcon could be remade as the big car that has class leading performance and fuel economy

I think to be a streetable package, they would want to look at twin turbo setups to get that sort of peak output. But as you say thats all future speak and whilst we've now got Gen1 Ecoboost, sequential twin turbo might not be seen until gen3.

phillyc · 09-12-2011, 11:18 AM

Look, as excited about potential BYFB tune-ability (fairly easy 10-20% gain) this engine is about catching private sales and more importantly bulk fleet sales by offering solid performance and excellent economy.

We might even see some 1000kms from a tank advert for Falcon...

I think rental fleets will look very seriously at the EB powered Falcons. If people drive them and are impressed with the performance and economy then that is wide exposure for the product.

jpd80 · 09-12-2011, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

I think to be a streetable package, they would want to look at twin turbo setups to get that sort of peak output. But as you say thats all future speak and whilst we've now got Gen1 Ecoboost, sequential twin turbo might not be seen until gen3.

You don't need twin turbos on an I-4, these days a twin scroll will do the same thing.
What ford is looking at is higher EGR to control detonation and NOX at higher boost.
The beauty of Ecoboost is ion the precise software commands, not the hardware...

The Focus RS will be around 300 hp with factory approved kits to add 60-80 hp,
I wonder if that 300 hp is mostly a tune, exhaust and bigger intercooler,
I can see future Falcon EB fans looking at these suppliers for assistance...

Grobbo · 09-12-2011, 01:06 PM

Interesting they didn't adopt the Terrys electric steering eh... Apparently it's good for slightly better economy...

jpd80 · 09-12-2011, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grobbo

Interesting they didn't adopt the Terrys electric steering eh... Apparently it's good for slightly better economy...

Where did you read that?

Quote:

GoAuto understands that Falcon will follow Territory by getting the Nexteer Automotive electric steering package as part of a global roll-out of the fuel-saving technology by the Blue Oval, which has a goal of 90 per cent EPAS fitment across its range by 2012. Falcon is also expected to get the new Territory’s driver’s knee airbag, improved noise suppression measures and latest Bosch 9.0 stability control system that includes an anti-roll-over function. The Ford electric steering system confirmed for Territory - and also fitted to the Ford Mustang in the US - can be upgraded into a fully fledged automatic parallel parking system, which Ford calls Active Park Assist (APS), by adding the necessary software, sensors and console button.

EPASS on FG II will happen as a running change when Nexsteer plant is up and running,
I'm pretty sure the Ecoboost will have EPASS from launch as doing steering twice over is crazy.

It also means that later this year, all Territorys and Falcons can have park assist like Titanium Focus.

phillyc · 09-12-2011, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Where did you read that?

EPASS on FG II will happen as a running change when Nexsteer plant is up and running, I'm pretty sure the Ecoboost will have EPASS from launch as doing steering twice over is crazy.

It also means that later this year, all Territorys and Falcons can have park assist like Titanium Focus.

Yep, Nexteer is in the process of expanding it's Australian manufacturing!

Falcon and Territory with self park would be a great anti-dinosaur play.

EPAS is worth about 3% to fuel economy improvement.

Poetic Justice · 09-12-2011, 01:34 PM

As far as XR goes, do you think Ford took away the XR4/5 names away in case the 4cyl Falcon is well received and they decide actually implement an XR model?

jpd80 · 09-12-2011, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUD

As far as XR goes, do you think Ford took away the XR4/5 names away in case the 4cyl Falcon is well received and they decide actually implement an XR model?

Ecoboost Falcon acceleration is comparable to Mondeo XR5T..

prydey · 09-12-2011, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Ecoboost Falcon acceleration is comparable to Mondeo XR5T..

even mondeo ecoboost is comparable i think.

any plans for ecoboost for focus? does it have it already? don't really follow along with small cars.

FPV GTHO · 09-12-2011, 09:21 PM

They'll get a 1.6 Ecoboost in some markets, but only the ST and RS will get the 2L.

**DFB FGXR6** · 09-12-2011, 09:28 PM

I get the feeling the 1.6 ecoboost for the Focus is being reserved for future upgrades. Ford have said that it is being "considered"

Bossxr8 · 09-12-2011, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Where did you read that?

EPASS on FG II will happen as a running change when Nexsteer plant is up and running,
I'm pretty sure the Ecoboost will have EPASS from launch as doing steering twice over is crazy.

It also means that later this year, all Territorys and Falcons can have park assist like Titanium Focus.

Its already been said that Ecoboost Falcon does not have EPAS. And in FGII they deleted the variable ratio rack and pinion steering and made it linear ratio, which I found dissapointing as they spent a lot of money fitting it for FG, it was supposedly to be world class, and then they delete it most likely for cost saving.

I don't think we'll see EPAS until 2013. Running change next year maybe, but probably not likely.

XR Martin · 09-12-2011, 09:46 PM

A smaller Ecoboost will also probably replace the base 1.6L N/A.
the 1.0L Ecoboost is reported to have up to 92kw and 170nm

**DFB FGXR6** · 09-12-2011, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

And in FGII they deleted the variable ratio rack and pinion steering and made it linear ratio, which I found dissapointing as they spent a lot of money fitting it for FG, it was supposedly to be world class, and then they delete it most likely for cost saving.

.

When I read the press info on FG II I also found this dissapointing and puzzeling. The variable rack was a big part of the FG update and was, I think, an Australian design used by Benz as well.

JC807 · 09-12-2011, 09:55 PM

put it in a KE20 bro.

jpd80 · 09-12-2011, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

A smaller Ecoboost will also probably replace the base 1.6L N/A.
the 1.0L Ecoboost is reported to have up to 92kw and 170nm

Don't count on it in a price sensitive base model.....

mik · 09-12-2011, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

When I read the press info on FG II I also found this dissapointing and puzzeling. The variable rack was a big part of the FG update and was, I think, an Australian design used by Benz as well.

perhaps it was in the too hard basket to bring so much new stuff in all at once, with the new engines and other upgrades on other models.