Government to probe 'killer' Volkswagens

[TC200six]

Originally Posted by trublu

Ford couldn't find anything wrong after long analysis.Quite sure ford kept that car & gave the owner another one.

That was Chase Weir. He came very close to being in a head-on at the end when he went onto the wrong side of the road, but all he had to do the whole time was to use the handbrake.

Ford gave him a seduce G6E, but I don't know if he had the confidence to drive it after what he went through.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by zilo

Hmmm...best not to be too quick with that comment mate?...


A modern automatic transmission that triggers limp mode as the ecu forces 3rd gear, at the same time switches the line solenoid to maximum oil pressure and then coupled with ecu rev limitting of the high compression diesel engine just might slow down a small car very quickly indeed.

The death was in a manual version, I cannot see how a car would lock up if the Engine cuts out. and a lockup, as we know, takes further to stop than a controlled threshold braking or ABS so if hit from behind the truck driver was too close.
I also don't see how an engine flame out will affect the ECU for the Gearbox. Yes A gearbox fault causing the selection of limp home mode but thats 3rd gear hardly massive compression brakingcapability...even if the Automatic gearbox failed would it allow transfer of torque from the wheels through to the engine to cause compresion braking. Also from memory the engine didnt die just lost power so was still being driven.

And just to test my theory tried it on my manual falcon, switched engine off and didnt stop and tried the mrs 2009 auto subaru and guess what...didnt stop.

JP

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by menil

I am extremely offended by your generalization of VW owners of which I am one I would like to know what you actually drive,I would also like to say that I currently own three falcons and over the last forty four years I have always had at least one Holden or Ford in my garage and I am just a normal working Australian not a POMPOUS LATTE SIPPING ******.

What would motoring be like without stereotypes? If we didn't have them I wouldn't be subconsciously slipping into defensive driving mode and putting my finger above the horn when approaching a Camry.

Yeah I reckon everybody's being a bit hard on Veedubs. I mean for years they produced a famous bubble-shaped death-trap and we all miraculously survived. And lattes aren't too bad either for that matter, though it would be nice to have a handle on the hot glass.

My best VW moments:

A motoring program on TV when the Golf first came out where the VW rep was describing to the oohing and aahing journalist that this car was a revolutionary first, a front wheel drive car with a transverse engine. Mini anyone?

Dropping into the VW/Skoda dealership in Wollongong and looking at a Skoda and being told by the salesman (as he was probably told to do) that there's no problem with supply of these cars from GERMANY and it had GERMAN reliability and GERMAN this and GERMAN that - apparently such is the power among buyers of a 6 letter word starting with G.

I guess now they'll be telling everyone that it's OK, VWs come from the Czech Republic - well, parts of them do actually, but not those bits. But just enough for a salesman to tell some little porkies.

[KIWI-1]

At the last Castlemaine Swap Meet a guy was selling an original, typed, rusty stapled Holden sales cheat sheet extolling the benefits of buying a Holden rather than a Volkswagen. Wanted $60!

[mik]

here's another article.

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/15...ailure-to-act/

No recall: failure to act
By Melissa Fyfe and Grace Dobell June 8, 2013, 1:23 p.m.
Full story: Volkswagen reliability problems

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Just before New Year's Eve last year, Luke Ray was driving his wife's 2010 Golf. He was like those starry-eyed Golf owners in the TV ads. He loved the car. His wife, Min, adored it. ''My wife chose the sporty bits and the nice wheels,'' says Ray. ''It was an aspirational thing to get a Volkswagen. We stretched a little bit to get it.''

In the rearview mirror Ray could see a Toyota Hilux was a tad too close. But the bigger problem for Ray was that the Golf carried an intermittent and unpredictable fault that causes a ''false neutral'', where the engine continues to run but the accelerator fails.

In countries such as the United States, China and Singapore, this is one of at least two well-known faults with some Volkswagen high-tech direct-shift gearboxes (DSG). Overseas, the company has admitted that this ''false neutral'' can be traced back to the gearbox's mechatronics unit.

But none of that knowledge would help Ray, as his car ground to a halt on a Point Cook roundabout with his wife and three-month-old son Joss as passengers. The Hilux smashed up the rear of his beloved Golf. ''It was a pretty nasty smash,'' says Ray.

The Ray family car was tested twice after its sudden loss of power and diagnostic tests at Essendon Volkswagen showed nothing was wrong. Then suddenly, last week, the dealer rang Ray and said they knew what the problem was - it was the mechatronics unit.

Luke Ray is just one of more than 300 owners of Volkswagen-made cars - including Audi and Skoda brands - who have reported a sudden and frightening loss of acceleration while driving their cars. Almost all of them say they felt lucky to escape an accident, and many were in heavy traffic or travelling at 100km/h when their cars lost power.

Until the Victorian coroner began to examine the death of bride-to-be Melissa Ryan, who died driving her 2008 Golf on the Monash Freeway in 2011 after being rear-ended by a truck, the large majority of these 300 believed their experience was probably a one-off.

Ryan's family and the truck driver point to the Golf's dramatic loss of speed as a possible factor in her death. This is obviously a decision for the coroner - Volkswagen points out Ryan was driving a manual and only about 10 per cent of the people who have come forward to Fairfax Media were driving manuals when their cars lost power.

But regardless of the coroner's finding, news of Melissa Ryan's death unleashed a wave of pent-up anger and complaints about Volkswagen that has been so devastating to its brand that Volkswagen Australia's managing director John White this week launched an ''active service campaign'' to contact about 4000 owners of cars with known faults. But the company's actions have fallen short of a recall.

Meanwhile, the Department of Infrastructure and Transport is investigating the flood of complaints. Last year, Volkswagen sold 72,870 cars in Australia, including its Skoda and Audi brands.

The department - which is Australia's key vehicle safety regulator - now faces serious questions about its failure to act on Volkswagen's safety issues. Dozens of motorists have told Fairfax Media that they complained to the department about unexpected deceleration. In a letter obtained by Fairfax Media, the department told one complainant that a vehicle suffering a sudden loss of power ''can coast to a stop safely'' and even without the power steering can still be steered ''quite easily at speed''.

Meanwhile, customers are asking why Volkswagen Australia refused to issue a recall for several known problems with the DSG transmissions - issues that have been raised since at least 2009 when Volkswagen of America recalled cars under a customer service program. Volkswagen in the US was forced to move after an adverse federal authority investigation and media reports about the stalling, which customers called the ''flash of death'' after a dashboard warning light that appears as their car loses power.

The biggest DSG recall came earlier this year when Volkswagen had to recall almost 400,000 cars after an investigation by a Chinese television program. The recall was also urged by the Chinese government. Recalls in Singapore, Japan, Malaysia and Taiwan followed. Volkswagen says Australia does not have the same DSGs as the Chinese-made models, but independent Volkswagen DSG specialist Guy Harding said Australian cars carried the same DSG components as the Singapore market.

Customers are also furious that Volkswagen did not publicly address a known problem with its diesel injectors. A fault in the injector can lead to total power loss while driving. In Britain, the diesel injector recall affected 78,800 Golfs, Passats and Tourans made between 2006 and 2010. Volkswagen alerted customers to the problem.

But in Australia, instead of a recall, Volkswagen quietly issued a ''campaign'' through its dealer network. This meant that drivers were unaware of the potential problem and many only found out when their cars broke down, often in dangerous situations.

''All I wanted was for them to explain why they hadn't alerted their customers to this potentially lethal problem,'' says David Grant, whose wife was almost rear-ended by a truck when her diesel 2007 Golf suddenly lost power on the freeway near Wollongong last year. Grant says the Volkswagen mechanic diagnosed the injectors as the problem.

Volkswagen Australia says people were not widely notified about the injector service campaign because it was not a safety issue.

As well as towing costs, some drivers have told Fairfax Media that they paid thousands of dollars to fix the injectors and DSG-related issues. Twenty people spent more than $1000 on repairs. Of these, nine people spent between $4000 and $10,000. Many were given quotes of between $4000 to $11,000 to get the problems fixed, but after the customers stood up for themselves, it was covered under warranty.

Meanwhile, other customers left stranded by a diesel injector failure were never told by Volkswagen dealers about the service campaign, and instead were told the company would fix the fault for free ''as a gesture of good will'' or because they were ''nice customers''. These people were grateful because they never knew it was an inherent fault in the vehicle.

Juergen Nelles, who drives a 2007 diesel Passat that ran out of power on the Tullamarine Freeway, was told by a Volkswagen dealership last year that the injectors would cost him $5000. He had a look at internet chat sites and found that overseas Volkswagen dealers often replaced them free of charge. South Yarra Volkswagen eventually agreed to replace them at no charge.

It is difficult to understand how, in the age of the internet, Volkswagen and its dealers thought they could behave differently in the Australian market compared to the rest of the world. In days past, customers would have suffered in total isolation. Now chat rooms are full of disgruntled customers banding together and researching overseas faults and recalls.

Based on the accounts of the 300 motorists who have contacted Fairfax Media, Volkswagen Australia seems to have adopted several strategies in the face of rising complaints.

Many Volkswagen drivers said their dealers told them their experience of sudden deceleration was unique. Because it rarely showed up in diagnostic tests and was intermittent, there was often no proof of a fault. Melbourne man Graham Whiteman, whose petrol Eos (DSG) lost power dozens of times - and once in the Burnley Tunnel - was told by Essendon Volkswagen his situation was ''unique''. But at least eight other motorists with the same problem told Fairfax Media they took their cars to Essendon Volkswagen.

Some dealers blamed their customers' driving or, in the case of diesel vehicles, the quality of fuel. Volkswagen was also careful with its language - the diesel injector issue was not a recall but a ''campaign''. According to a 2011 memo obtained by Fairfax Media, Volkswagen Australia told dealers to ''please reinforce the correct description of this action'' - a DSG software modification - ''as a vehicle update, NOT a recall''.

Then when customers threatened to take their grievances public or go to court, Volkswagen made firm legal threats. As Fairfax Media revealed this week, one public servant had his job threatened by Volkswagen's lawyers. A lawyer who complained about his car said that Volkswagen threatened to report him to the Law Institute of Victoria.


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It may seem strange that Volkswagen can ignore Australia while issuing recalls for similar faults in other countries, but the system here largely relies on carmakers following a voluntary code. The Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries' Code of Practice for Conduct of an Automotive Safety Recall sets out manufacturers' obligations.

If this system fails, the federal Transport Department can recommend a recall to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, which then advises the minister to issue a mandatory recall.

''Unless the minister has issued a mandatory product recall, there isn't a black-and-white legal obligation to recall a vehicle because of a potential vehicle safety defect,'' says competition and consumer law expert Geoff Carter, partner at Minter Ellison Lawyers.

Luke Ray's problems with his Golf are now fixed. But he's thinking about other Volkswagen drivers. ''We got away OK, but it could be a lot worse for someone else. I would urge other people to contact Volkswagen about their mechatronics unit and say they want it looked at.''

[KIWI-1]

I can see the legal vultures circling.
Class action?

[new2ford]

This business seems to be doing a good job exposing the tailgaters as well!

VW Golf - mobile tailgater entrapment device.

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

I can see the legal vultures circling.
Class action?

At least one (Sydney) legal firm is touting for that little earner

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by new2ford

This business seems to be doing a good job exposing the tailgaters as well!

VW Golf - mobile tailgater entrapment device.

Are you cut they mentioned your precious Skoda?

And what is wrong with these people thinking VW's are "aspirational". Idiots.

VW = Peoples car

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Good to see our train loving Ford troll at it again.

I can see why you call yourself Full Noise, that was deafening!

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Are you cut they mentioned your precious Skoda?

No, all the VAG marques (including Audi and Seat) were bound to get drawn into this. The only advantage Skoda had is they tend to use proven, previous-cycle components but some things they can't avoid.

The thing is it's been going on for a couple of years and quiet little rectification campaigns have been running through the dealers around the world. What's gone really wrong for VW is that they've treated Australians as idiots and hoped they would get away unnoticed.

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by TC200six

That was Chase Weir. He came very close to being in a head-on at the end when he went onto the wrong side of the road, but all he had to do the whole time was to use the handbrake.

Ford gave him a seduce G6E, but I don't know if he had the confidence to drive it after what he went through.

So the T-bar wouldn't move into neutral, the key wouldn't move to accessory and the brakes just didn't work.........and then later they all did......riiiight

[mickcoz]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Basically it seems to me that the vehicle behind the one that lost power was driving too close to safely stop (regardless of whether brake lights showed on the vehicle in front or not). This is a basic expectation of driving skills acquired in order to obtain a licence. If your car suddenly loses power, it's therefore reasonable to expect that a (presumably professional) driver behind you won't ride over the top of you. Nothing to do with VWs really.

Have you tried driving behind cars with no brakes in peak hour; that first time they pull-up can be pretty hairy. At something like a 100km/hr and cars in front do an emergency stop you'll soon see who left enough gap.

Sent from my MZ604 using Tapatalk 2

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by mickcoz

Have you tried driving behind cars with no brakes in peak hour; that first time they pull-up can be pretty hairy. At something like a 100km/hr and cars in front do an emergency stop you'll soon see who left enough gap.

Yep and those that didnt leave enough gap are liable for the impact, irrespective of why you were slowing down, If you cant stop your too close. Be that a warning to all those gun drivers out there, Bad stuff happens!

JP

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Yep and those that didnt leave enough gap are liable for the impact, irrespective of why you were slowing down, If you cant stop your too close. Be that a warning to all those gun drivers out there, Bad stuff happens!

JP

I hate to tell you buddy, but you are wrong.

There’s a very good reason why the truck driver wasn’t, and will not be charged over this accident.
If some clown changes lanes in front of you doing 30 Kph and you’re in a 60 tonne truck leaving you with no room and nowhere to go, and you’ve done your best to avoid it, you have a pretty good defence.

All you have to do is prove it.

Eye witnesses, yeah but often they can get it wrong. In truck video is the go these days.

Last week I clipped some old bloke in a Statesman when he cut in front of me. He called the cops and he rambled on about how this big bad “cowboy truck driver” tried to kill him. As soon as I pulled out my laptop and showed the cops what really happened, they booked the car driver.

I’d call that instant justice.

After he realised that he was beat, he went down the “he tried to assault me” track. The cops weren’t having a bar of it.

Even the cops admitted that if they didn’t see the video, they would have just assumed that I ran in to the back of this bloke by looking at the damage to his car.

So the real warning should be, don’t drive like a twat around other people, especially trucks and forget this BS about always being in the right if someone runs up your khyber because if you’ve done something stupid to cause it, and the other driver can prove it, you’ll be left sitting on it.

[Spinner77]

And what is wrong with these people thinking VW's are "aspirational". Idiots.

VW = Peoples car

With respect, I suggest things have moved on since that equation was true, at least with the Golf.

VW's own marketing of the Golf positions it very much as an aspirational item - something that represents an important bar on the ladder up to the upper middle class.

The slogan "Take the Golf" and its variants suggest you should take the Golf instead of one of other available fine steeds in your stable. It implies "Take the Golf, not the Beemer." "Take the Golf, not the Merc."

The targeted buyer of the Golf certainly does not think it sends the message "My other car is a Yaris". And the last thing in the world he wants is to send out the message, "i am a sucker. I got sold this lemon".

Now if you are a Fiat buyer, you expect something to fall off it the day after you bought it. It's reassurance that it really is a Fiat. Part of the appeal is that it has such endearing little qualities.

But not the demographic targetted by the Golf. They will be white hot with rage, because their self image has taken a dent. Especially as they recall how the salesman lifted the lid to show them the parts stamped "Audi" inside.

Of course not all Golf buyers are like that, especially of the high-level models. But that's the demographic IMHO.

[ryeman]

......and we all know how unreliable Ladas are also.
Thousands of Russians dying in snow bound Siberia every year.....you know, the one based on a 40 year old Fiat.....oh wait on, that can't be right
I must update my 'sweeping statements' qualifications.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

I hate to tell you buddy, but you are wrong.

Having spent my share of time driving medium trucks I am aware of the issues you describe and agree the muppets deserve what they get.

What I was commenting on as per the quoted lines in my post, was a simple scenario described by another poster of the high speed emergency stop. No last minute lane changes were suggested just a simple stop. You don't leave enough room to stop Irrespective of why they stop the rear driver will more often than not be deemed at fault.

I have not read, heard or seen anything describing the incidence of the fatality in the VW vs Truck story as to lane changes or not. Assuming a straight line stop, and we have no evidence to the contrary, believe the truck driver was at fault, Unlucky certainly but at fault wholly.
I have great faith and belief in professional drivers, I give them all the respect they deserve on the road and at the pub, But if your too close, irrespective of what your driving, your too close. There is a lesson to all there.

JP

[zilo]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

.......

And just to test my theory tried it on my manual falcon, switched engine off and didnt stop and tried the mrs 2009 auto subaru and guess what...didnt stop.

JP

Were either of them diesel?

I tried it on my twin turbo diesel Mercedes and it pulled up very quickly indeed.

[new2ford]

http://www.news.com.au/technology/vo...-1226662071561

TROUBLED German carmaker Volkswagen has issued a recall on more than 25,000 cars sold in Australia.

The vehicles affected were built between June 2008 and September 2011 and include the Golf hatchback, the Jetta sedan, the Polo hatchback, the Passat sedan and wagon and the Caddy van.

The automatic DSG gearbox will be inspected and if needed repaired on that batch of vehicles.

The recall follows two weeks of unprecedented pressure from customers demanding their cars be fixed for wide-ranging mechanical faults.

Complaints included engines that conked out, high oil use, and gearbox issues.

In addition to the official recall, Volkswagen Australia will also call 4000 diesel cars back to dealerships for inspection.

News Limited understands that Volkswagen is still yet to issue an official recall following customer claims of sudden vehicle decceleration.

The company says any one experiencing that fault or any others to contact their local Volkswagen dealer.

Volkswagen Australia has set up a dedicated customer service line to answer customer queries - 1800 504 076.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/technology/vo...#ixzz2VuFSld7D

This is quite a useful site to see what recalls have been issued in UK (that may not have happened in Australia):

http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/recalls/index.jsp

A common one running through several models over the last 3 years has been:

"In rare cases an incorrect interpretation of the clutch temperature can occur which results in the clutch opening unexpectedly with loss of drive.
Action: Recall affected vehicles and update/reprogramme gearbox control unit."

(Not saying that it's a specific reason for the present recall.)

[GREGL]

Wish they had a site like that relating to oz cars. Would make life easier when trying to narrow down the source of a glitch.

[ryeman]

So now almost 26,000 will be subject to an official recall......an embarrassing backdown.q

[KIWI-1]

For all those saying it's the truckie's fault, I suggest you look at the skid marks on the video at the ABC website. It may change your views?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-1...recall/4747694

[SS_01]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

For all those saying it's the truckie's fault, I suggest you look at the skid marks on the video at the ABC website. It may change your views?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-1...recall/4747694

Who is good at maths??? If the truckies reaction time is .7 of a second before he applies the brakes, and he is travelling at 100km/h, how far would he have travelled before the truck started to decelerate??

Considering the length of the truck, and the skid marks, appearing to be over double the length of the truck, this would mean it took him somewhere in the vacinity of 130-150 metres to stop including impacting the Golf??

So again, who has a math brain to work it all out??? Cause from where i stand, I reckon the trucky was maybe 4 to 5 seconds (On a guess) behind the Golf before it started to decelerate, which would mean he was too close.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

For all those saying it's the truckie's fault, I suggest you look at the skid marks on the video at the ABC website. It may change your views?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-1...recall/4747694

yep...I looked at it....big truck skid marks in right hand lane...

It reinforces my opinion that we should have road rules like the US...

No trucks in the fast lane and speed limited to 80k's, cause they just can't stop quick in an emergency.

No blame to anyone...just bad road rules.

[jpblue1000]

As I have said and warned bad stuff happens, and no matter what us keyboard warriors think the truck driver has to live with the consequences of the event. Only he now truly knows what did happen and what the circumstances were and what might have prevented this. The lesson to all should be you are not in control of the vehicle in front, only the one you are driving anything could happen so be prepared, and know your own vehicle and what it requires.
I also agree trucks should not be in the fast lane irrespective of if they are at the speed limit, That's my opinion and how I operate, but probably not a contributing factor in this instance.

JP

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by SS_01

So again, who has a math brain to work it all out??? Cause from where i stand, I reckon the trucky was maybe 4 to 5 seconds (On a guess) behind the Golf before it started to decelerate, which would mean he was too close.

I think it is safe to say that if he was to close he would have been charged... and he wasn't.

[MITCHAY]

Official recall here - http://www.recalls.gov.au/content/in...itemId/1048823

One can only guess how much this will cost VW in terms of reputation and then also fixing cars.

[Bossxr8]

Skoda and Audi also issue recalls for the same problem.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257B88002305CD

[burnz]

Originally Posted by SS_01

Who is good at maths??? If the truckies reaction time is .7 of a second before he applies the brakes, and he is travelling at 100km/h, how far would he have travelled before the truck started to decelerate??

Considering the length of the truck, and the skid marks, appearing to be over double the length of the truck, this would mean it took him somewhere in the vacinity of 130-150 metres to stop including impacting the Golf??

So again, who has a math brain to work it all out??? Cause from where i stand, I reckon the trucky was maybe 4 to 5 seconds (On a guess) behind the Golf before it started to decelerate, which would mean he was too close.

your argument is flawed.

if he was tailgating she would still be alive, just pushed up the road.
the speed difference 20Kph approx. (zero reaction time).

if he was well back, the speed difference would be 70Kph approx. (reaction time dependant)

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

I think it is safe to say that if he was to close he would have been charged... and he wasn't.

He hasn't? the coroner has not released it's verdict yet. there is still a possibility


JP