Best Aussie car of last 30 years

[BENT_8]

Not sure sales volume is necessarily an indicator of where a vehicle sits on this topic or the XF with its rust prone plenums and 'A' and 'C' pillars plus broken door handles and a gear shift that would literally pull out in your hand would be right up there.
So whilst the XF was widely regarded as the AU of its generation, its not in the convo of best Aussie cars just because it sold well and im an XF enthusiast of 35yrs, was my favourite model growing up.

Certainly was popular though.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Not sure sales volume is necessarily an indicator of where a vehicle sits on this topic or the XF with its rust prone plenums and 'A' and 'C' pillars plus broken door handles and a gear shift that would literally pull out in your hand would be right up there.
So whilst the XF was widely regarded as the AU of its generation, its not in the convo of best Aussie cars just because it sold well and im an XF enthusiast of 35yrs, was my favourite model growing up.

Certainly was popular though.

The fact Ford did still build a car based panel van at that point in time was a good thing which the opposition had dropped previously.

[hackney]

‘Top ten Models’(Ford Aus figures) #1 AU(1,2,3) Total: 322,838. #2 XF(1,ADR37, 2) Total: 322,778. #3 BA (1 & 2) Total:281,197. #4 XB Total:211,981.#5 EA( 1 & 2) Total:209,936. #6 XD Total: 200,849.#7 XE Total:191,174 #8 XC Total:171,080. #9 EL Total:153,791. #10 BF(1 & 2) Total:136,473. Now we have figures for total Falcon sedan,Wagon,Tudor(yes that is correct) ute,Van. #1 XB Total 211,981.#2 XD Total 200,849. #3 BA Total:199,303.#4 XE Total: 191,174. #5 XC Total:171,080, #6 EL Total:153,791. #7 XF2 Total: 144,750. #8 AU2 Total:133,047. #9 AU1 Total:130,451.#10 XA Total:129,473.

[willo56]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Not sure sales volume is necessarily an indicator of where a vehicle sits on this topic

Certainly was popular though.

If sales were a factor then the EF-EL falcon would be in the running

Might be wrong but I think this was the last time the Falcon outsold the commo

[Dr Terry]

Just one small point here. Total sales of any single model series is not an indicator of its popularity or otherwise.

The best number is sales per month. In other words if you get the total number sold & divide it by the number of months it was on sale, this is a much better indicator.

For example, in Holden sales the best grossing models were the HQ & VE series, but they were on sale for nearly 4 years (HQ) & nearly 7 years for the VE.

EH & HT were much better sellers on a sales/month basis.

Dr Terry

[Syndrome]

Where is the Holden Nova?

[janddbone]

For the best car I sure do wreck lots of them. Noone wants to put the money into fixing them. I have put three AU's back on the road in the last 12 months. A days work and they are as good as new.

[Sprintey]

We do

Ours still going strong.

But yes, the cars reach that point at which the spend required is higher than the car's value, and then it's scrapping time. The more complex/expensive to repair, the sooner they get scrapped.

[Sprintey]

And high cost of living/interest rates will probably accelerate that scrapping over the next couple of years, too.

[Top_Ghia]

Do Australians even know what they have lost? Losing domestic car manufacturing is a mistake. Not just from a history or nostalgia point of view.
Today I priced up and engine repair on a large Korean SUV that has overheated and destroyed the engine.
To build an engine with genuine parts (they don’t sell long motors) is around $35,000 for parts alone. Or you can buy a reconditioned engine for $15,000. What do you do? You throw a $20,000 car in the bin, that’s what you do.
This is becoming normal. Once a car is out of warranty it’s on borrowed time. Any major failure or accident and it’s simply not viable to repair it.
Why would you spend $20,000 repairing a $20,0000 car that will only come with a 12 month or 20,000km warranty?

But I guess this fits with our disposable world we live in.

I’ll be driving my SZII Barra powered Territory for some years yet. It’ll probably get written off by some muppet in a Tesla.

[anobserver]

In losing vehicle manufacturing, the economic zone formerly known as Australia has lost human capital.

We saw the job outcome figures when mitsubishi closed. Roughly 1 in 3 went to another full time job, 1 in 3 went to a part time job or casual work, 1 in 3 never worked again. And the figures when holden closed were worse.

Why we place so little value on the benefits lost to individuals, is beyond me.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by Top_Ghia

Today I priced up and engine repair on a large Korean SUV that has overheated and destroyed the engine.
To build an engine with genuine parts (they don’t sell long motors) is around $35,000 for parts alone. Or you can buy a reconditioned engine for $15,000. What do you do? You throw a $20,000 car in the bin, that’s what you do.
This is becoming normal. Once a car is out of warranty it’s on borrowed time. Any major failure or accident and it’s simply not viable to repair it.

A far cry from the days of getting an exchange long motor fitted to your Holden/Falcon/Valiant 6-cyl for $1,000-$2,000 driveaway, isn't it ?

Dr Terry

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

A far cry from the days of getting an exchange long motor fitted to your Holden/Falcon/Valiant 6-cyl for $1,000-$2,000 driveaway, isn't it ?

Dr Terry

The good old days. They're still hanging in there.

https://hmgem.com.au/engine-recondit...ngine-builder/

[Sprintey]

Had a gem of a 202 once

When our Barra is up for recon in another 200,000+km, nice to know it can be easily and cost-effectively brought back to it's prime.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Top_Ghia

Do Australians even know what they have lost? Losing domestic car manufacturing is a mistake. Not just from a history or nostalgia point of view.
Today I priced up and engine repair on a large Korean SUV that has overheated and destroyed the engine.
To build an engine with genuine parts (they don’t sell long motors) is around $35,000 for parts alone. Or you can buy a reconditioned engine for $15,000. What do you do? You throw a $20,000 car in the bin, that’s what you do.
This is becoming normal. Once a car is out of warranty it’s on borrowed time. Any major failure or accident and it’s simply not viable to repair it.
Why would you spend $20,000 repairing a $20,0000 car that will only come with a 12 month or 20,000km warranty?

But I guess this fits with our disposable world we live in.

I’ll be driving my SZII Barra powered Territory for some years yet. It’ll probably get written off by some muppet in a Tesla.

I agree but perhaps one upshot of EV's is alot of these mechanical issues simply disappear. There will be other risks with them but so many less bits to worry about.

Imagine if Ford/Holden had the foresight to develop a local EV platform!

[Citroënbender]

Irrespective of driveline, our attitude to repairs, remains - a strong case of Charlie Bravo Foxtrot. We even eschew the manufacturer endorsed methods for significant repairs with dull-headed putdowns that belong in another era: “It’ll never be the same again”.

Originally Posted by Polyal

I agree but perhaps one upshot of EV's is alot of these mechanical issues simply disappear. There will be other risks with them but so many less bits to worry about.

Imagine if Ford/Holden had the foresight to develop a local EV platform!

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Irrespective of driveline, our attitude to repairs, remains - a strong case of Charlie Bravo Foxtrot. We even eschew the manufacturer endorsed methods for significant repairs with dull-headed putdowns that belong in another era: “It’ll never be the same again”.

The whole industry is toasted, the only talented people in the industry with the experience and knowledge is the old blokes who are still alive and the walking dead hobbling around who've been in it for decades.

The rest are lowly paid monkeys, imports from third world countries on 'skills visas' because you can treat them like **** and pay them **** all, if they lose their job they have 60 days before they get deported.

Or the dregs of the youth, who don't cut it for the construction apprenticeships - there's a reason there's 200-300 people applying for every 1st year apprenticeship position for plumbers and electricians advertised while the automotive apprenticeships get nothing and they're crying out for new blood to come in.

Of the **** all the automotive industry attracts to apply, over 50% drop out before finishing their apprenticeships.

Then there's the OEMs who are keeping all the diagnostics information in house locked up to kill off the independents and lobbying governments globally to stop legislation like 'right to repair' movement.

It's a sunset industry and has been for a long time - you pay peanuts you get Indians. There's parts of the industry which still pay decently but it's not light vehicle and it's not in Melbourne.

[Sprintey]

It is truly amazing what we've lost. I hear you on the construction Franco as that's where our youngest has gone.

I never understood why our government was hostile to manufacturing cars here when other nations arrange generous support - maybe they thought it should be a free market thing. Maybe the automakers knew what was coming with the electric tsunami and realised we had nowhere near the capital here to compete. Look at the trouble huge companies like Toyota (and the Japanese in general) are having with it.

Anyway, I made my own manufacturing capacity. Nothing as complex as a car though. We've now entered an inflationary environment, and manufacturers have crazy pricing power. What I can decide to charge, I'll probably get away with. If only Australia still had Ford, Holden and Toyota going through Covid, they could get a decent return on locally produced. Oh well.

(+1 for the Electrodore mention below too)

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I agree but perhaps one upshot of EV's is alot of these mechanical issues simply disappear. There will be other risks with them but so many less bits to worry about.

Imagine if Ford/Holden had the foresight to develop a local EV platform!

Holden did, twice,

In 2000 teaming up with the CSIRO for development and again in 2011 with another company on the VE.

The long gone, but not forgotten, Electric VE Commodore

In 2012 ‘EV Engineering’ developed an all electric version of the VE Commodore on behalf of Holden. The plan was to develop and test the technology and possibly shift it to market if response was good, the cars held up to general abuse and proved to be a viable business proposition.

Holden originally wanted to try and put it on sale for about $50,000. $10,000 less than the imported plug-in hybrid Holden Volt sold at the time.

Seven V6 powered Holden Calais (five sedans and two wagons) were dumped of all their oily bits and a 30 kWh lithium-ion battery pack was put in its place. A 30kWh battery isn’t huge by modern standards but it was 6 kWh larger than the Nissan Leaf at the time and 14kWh bigger then the Mitsubishi i-Miev that were both on sale at that time.

The aforementioned lithium-ion batteries were hooked up to an electric motor located between the rear wheels that made 145 kW (194 HP) and 400 NM (295 lb-ft) of torque.

https://thedriven.io/2021/11/01/the-...-ve-commodore/

It's like the Ford Territory Turbo and the F6X - decade ahead of it's time before the market was keen.

Holden Commodore EV 2011 review

The first generation car we're driving is powered by a 145kW/400Nm electric motor matched to a Borg-Warner electric single-ratio gearbox and differential.

EV Engineering's chief engineer Tim Olding says it is good for at least 140km/h and the seven "proof of concept" vehicles the company will by July will have a range of around 160km. They'll also be at least 40kg lighter than the first-gen cars.

The development has already led to the company filing several patents.

"We can buy a standard energy cell and then we have to adapt them to make it into a battery for us. So the first thing we have to do is attach a set of terminals to it. As a high-volume production cell they actually weld all the cells together. That's not a good idea for a small-scale battery because if something goes wrong we have to throw the entire battery away. So essentially, this (the terminal construction) is our technology we've had to develop. You lay a sheet of copper on the ground, lay a sheet of aluminium on top of it and then you put 50 grams of ammonium nitrate on that and explode it."

https://www.carsguide.com.au/ev/hold...1-review-82693

They also did a hybrid in 2000 for the $ydney Olympics

Holden unveils ECOmmodore

HOLDEN has unveiled its hybrid electric-powered ECOmmodore, the car that will silently lead the opening 70km stage of the Olympic torch relay from Uluru, central Australia, on June 8.

The one-off technological showcase was developed by Holden, the CSIRO and 26 domestic component suppliers. It is intended to demonstrate what is realistically available with existing technology.

The car uses a General Motors Family II, 95kW, 2.0-litre, four-cylinder, petrol engine from the Vectra and is mated to a 50kW electric motor charged by lead acid batteries backed up by super-capacitors.

Where a standard V6 Commodore produces 304Nm of torque at 4000rpm, the hybrid makes 290Nm at 4000rpm but has 100Nm of torque on trap from rest, courtesy of the electric motor.

Drive is to the front wheels via a five-speed manual box, a first for a Commodore.

Holden says the ECOmmodore would provide similar performance to a standard V6 petrol engined version but has not rated acceleration against the clock just yet.

The concept is designed to show how fuel consumption could be almost halved and emission levels cut to 10 per cent of a regular Commodore, while maintaining the virtues of an Australian-made full-size family car that suffers no cut in performance.

Holden estimates the 45-litre fuel tank would offer a range of 800km.

https://www.goauto.com.au/news/holde...-24/21540.html

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Top_Ghia

Do Australians even know what they have lost? Losing domestic car manufacturing is a mistake. Not just from a history or nostalgia point of view.
Today I priced up and engine repair on a large Korean SUV that has overheated and destroyed the engine.
To build an engine with genuine parts (they don’t sell long motors) is around $35,000 for parts alone. Or you can buy a reconditioned engine for $15,000. What do you do? You throw a $20,000 car in the bin, that’s what you do.
This is becoming normal. Once a car is out of warranty it’s on borrowed time. Any major failure or accident and it’s simply not viable to repair it.
Why would you spend $20,000 repairing a $20,0000 car that will only come with a 12 month or 20,000km warranty?

But I guess this fits with our disposable world we live in.

I’ll be driving my SZII Barra powered Territory for some years yet. It’ll probably get written off by some muppet in a Tesla.

Agree a lot. Compare Toyota diesel injector price for Barra injector price.

Edit: it's a discussion we've had over in the electric vehicle thread - my conclusion there is that electric is going to be so much cheaper to own privately long term, even including the replacement of batteries. So maybe not economically scrapped until about $7-10K rather than 20-30K, and perhaps battery replacements will get cheaper with scale, too. Disclaimer, currently there's still some really expensive batteries - like a 30K replacement, but others are apparently much cheaper.