Falcon Ecoboost sales breakdown

[morak001]

Originally Posted by dimka100

I don't understand, the EcoBoost engine is Euro V compliant out of the box, how come when fitted to the Falcon it's suddenly not?

Is that another case of dumb Australian regulations that require manufacturers to test for the same thing already tested and certified overseas? (e.g. how importers have to test crash cars here even if the car was already certified in USA, EU, Japan, ets ...)

Did I read somewhere that the Falcon version runs a higher boost than the Mondeo version? If so, would this likely have an effect on emissions with the higher combustion temperatures?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by morak001

Did I read somewhere that the Falcon version runs a higher boost than the Mondeo version? If so, would this likely have an effect on emissions with the higher combustion temperatures?

There are two2.0 EB Mondeo power levels but FoA only imports the lower powered versions.
Coupled with the slightly larger interior of the 2013 Fusion, the 2.0 EB in the coming Mondeo
could be very interesting indeed..

[Bossxr8]

Probably does, but the higher power version is also used in Focus ST, Explorer, Euro market Mondeos and others, which all have to be Euro 5 or higher spec.

[XR Martin]

Shipping a vehicle over the ocean contributes very little pollution.
I think you'd probably find the amount of carbon emitted to ship a car from Japan to Australia, would be less than it is to ship it from the docks to the dealer.

[Romulus]

*conspiracy theory cap on*
One gets the distinct impression Ford Australia had no interest in meeting the emmision requirements. I wonder if this was a deliberate decision. This may well well have suited Ford US plan to shut down production by killing off the Falcon.

Ford Aus issue atm is the amount of publicity the issue of the Ecoboost Falcon not reaching a high enough emmision score. I wonder how long before the Federal Government starts asking questions of Ford e.g. when will FoA send a Falcon overseas for testing to certify Euro 5/6 compliance.

The last thing Ford US want is for Falcon sales to improve.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by F6 Concorde

*conspiracy theory cap on*
One gets the distinct impression Ford Australia had no interest in meeting the emmision requirements. I wonder if this was a deliberate decision. This may well well have suited Ford US plan to shut down production by killing off the Falcon.

Ford Aus issue atm is the amount of publicity the issue of the Ecoboost Falcon not reaching a high enough emmision score. I wonder how long before the Federal Government starts asking questions of Ford e.g. when will FoA send a Falcon overseas for testing to certify Euro 5/6 compliance.

The last thing Ford US want is for Falcon sales to improve.

If Ford US had wanted to kill the Falcon, they would have done it years ago.
They are making every accommodation possible to to keep production in Australia.
Where else in the Ford world do you see a plant with such low production
and if they wanted to stop production, they wouldn't much around like this...

The ACART emissions lab is set for an upgrade to Euro 5 and 6 in the near future,
Euro 5 and 6 requires manufacturers to guarantee emission compliance until 160, 000 km
which means low sulphur oil and timed emission maintenance schedule, the reductions
in emissions between Euro 4 to 5 to 6 is actually quite small, the big jump was Euro 3 to 4
all of which costs money to develop but if Ford doesn't have to meet Euro 5 until Nov 2016 ,
I doubt they will do it....

[I6DOHC]

Originally Posted by jpd80

.....but if Ford doesn't have to meet Euro 5 until Nov 2016 ,
I doubt they will do it....

And you are probably right, if their form on the board to date is anything to go by.

The problem with this is it's 1980's thinking when we are in 2012. The days when companies can sit back, rely on word of mouth and not be proactive about building a brand are gone. In this day and age, with lives so hectic and attention spans shorter, companies need to find ways to stay in the front of peoples minds AND still be relevant.

Sitting back (and doing nothing) while every news outlet in country runs headlines that "Ford Falcon is dead", "Ford to shut down Australian operations" does not do the Brand any good at all. Sure you are in front of peoples minds but for all the wrong reasons.

If Ford were to get on the front foot, invest in getting these engines rated properly, and then scream it from the rooftops perhaps they might at least go down swinging. Advertise the fact that with the green funding from the government Australia's large cars are now just as eco-friendly and cost less than some smaller cars to run. At least by doing this it might shame the government into buying them.

Anyway, the way I see it the coach has left the ringside while the old champion takes a beating. Sad days indeed.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by jpd80

if Ford doesn't have to meet Euro 5 until Nov 2016 ,
I doubt they will do it....

I guess it comes down to how much profit they would forego on the lost fleet sales versus what it would cost to get euro 5/6... even if it were compliant now, its no guarantee that it would get bought

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by b0son

I guess it comes down to how much profit they would forego on the lost fleet sales versus what it would cost to get euro 5/6... even if it were compliant now, its no guarantee that it would get bought

Based on that premise FoMoCo should shut down FoA in order for it to stop losing money.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by F6 Concorde

Based on that premise FoMoCo should shut down FoA in order for it to stop losing money.

the R & D all gets spent up front. every car they sell is all helping to amortise those costs. its probably still better to be selling 1000/month in the short term than to shut up completely. thats my take.

i think falcon takes way too much of the focus. territory is selling reasonably well and should be the lead singer from now on, based on how each segment of the locals is performing. one thing that many lose sight of is the fact that overall sales of FORD (not falcon car company) are actually doing quite well. obviously this has little bearing on the feasability of the local product but i believe that for a short period, they can carry the locals. ford have said themselves that the current levels are ok but not sustainable long term. i guess it depends on the definition of short term and long term.

they may already have plans in place for post 2016 (i would say definitely) but just because they don't show their hand doesn't mean it doesn't involve local production.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

If Ford US had wanted to kill the Falcon, they would have done it years ago.
They are making every accommodation possible to to keep production in Australia.
Where else in the Ford world do you see a plant with such low production
and if they wanted to stop production, they wouldn't much around like this...

Could just be a case of wanting to make back the cash they spent developing FG, or because they have serious development programs running for overseas models. That and the fact they have too spend very little to keep it going until 2016. If all they need to spend between now and then is $50 mil and the government pays the other half then thats bugger all really. Its the cash needed after that thats the problem. Keeping production running in the short term and taking a bit of a loss is probably cheaper than shutting down the whole place too.

I still think local assembly of something like Mondeo and export throughout asia is their only hope of continuing. I certainly hope so for the people in Broadmeadows, PD and stamping. Powertrain is screwed either way unless they could perform some sort of miracle and produce something else like a 4 cylinder petrol or diesel here, however unlikely that seems.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Could just be a case of wanting to make back the cash they spent developing FG, or because they have serious development programs running for overseas models. That and the fact they have too spend very little to keep it going until 2016. If all they need to spend between now and then is $50 mil and the government pays the other half then thats bugger all really. Its the cash needed after that thats the problem. Keeping production running in the short term and taking a bit of a loss is probably cheaper than shutting down the whole place too.

I still think local assembly of something like Mondeo and export throughout asia is their only hope of continuing. I certainly hope so for the people in Broadmeadows, PD and stamping. Powertrain is screwed either way unless they could perform some sort of miracle and produce something else like a 4 cylinder petrol or diesel here, however unlikely that seems.

Pretty much my sentiments too.
Slightly different tack, any idea how many I-6Ts are being made per day?
I have a hunch that XR6T, G6ET and F6 have taken a beating this year..

[Bossxr8]

Roughly 8-10 a day.

F6 around 2 or so.

Its the petrol I6 Falcon that taking the beating I think ie. XR6.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Roughly 8-10 a day.

F6 around 2 or so.

Its the petrol I6 Falcon that taking the beating I think ie. XR6.

OK, Thanks Boss.

So at best around 180-200 I-6 Turbo units a month......

[Peterwl]

Had a read through the thread and took in all the points of view.

I would like to add that if Ford had spent that development time and money on putting a de tuned Coyote V8 in the FG in XR8 & G8E format, they would have sold a lot more of these than 53 to private buyers throughout Australia.

The 4 cylinder Falcon was always going to be a hard sell to private buyers. I have no doubt it is a good drive train, it just needs to be in a Ford vehicle 250 KG lighter with a small frontal cross section.


Cheers all

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

If Ford US had wanted to kill the Falcon, they would have done it years ago.
They are making every accommodation possible to to keep production in Australia.
Where else in the Ford world do you see a plant with such low production
and if they wanted to stop production, they wouldn't much around like this...

The ACART emissions lab is set for an upgrade to Euro 5 and 6 in the near future,
Euro 5 and 6 requires manufacturers to guarantee emission compliance until 160, 000 km
which means low sulphur oil and timed emission maintenance schedule, the reductions
in emissions between Euro 4 to 5 to 6 is actually quite small, the big jump was Euro 3 to 4
all of which costs money to develop but if Ford doesn't have to meet Euro 5 until Nov 2016 ,
I doubt they will do it....

Bollocks. Ford has nothing to replace Falcon, and they don't want to bring on the wrath of our unions and GovCo.

Other than that, they couldn't give a stuff about it. Why else would they not advertise the new technology? Don't tell me they can't afford it.

[RASER]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

it, better to make it unsuccessful first and then use that as an excuse.

I'm hoping that at least a switch to Mondeo and exports throughout Asia keep a lot of people in a job, cause a total shutdown will be devastating for Geelong.

That wont happen, and Geelong, together with Broady will have to deal with it.

Happened before at plants in NSW and QLD., thats the cost of doing business in Australia today.

I feel sorry for workers who have worked at these plants for decades, they have not a hope in hell of getting a job anywhere else, onto the dole q once they payout dough runs out.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by RASER

That wont happen, and Geelong, together with Broady will have to deal with it.

Happened before at plants in NSW and QLD., thats the cost of doing business in Australia today.

I feel sorry for workers who have worked at these plants for decades, they have not a hope in hell of getting a job anywhere else, onto the dole q once they payout dough runs out.

They are actively looking at this plan, so don't just make assumptions you know nothing about ok then.

And for jobs you're going overboard there. I know people who took packages 18 months ago and had no problem finding jobs. Not everyone will have luck getting a new job but it won't be an issue for the majority.

Maybe Ford could start building the F150 here and sell it for 23k.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

They are actively looking at this plan

But why would they spend millions of dollars re-tooling the plants to build Mondeos when they already have plants in Asia which can build them at a much lower cost?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by stevz

But why would they spend millions of dollars re-tooling the plants to build Mondeos when they already have plants in Asia which can build them at a much lower cost?

Which plants would that be. China is flat out providing for their market and Thailand doesn't have any extra capacity AFAIK.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by stevz

But why would they spend millions of dollars re-tooling the plants to build Mondeos when they already have plants in Asia which can build them at a much lower cost?

Those plants arent configured to make them, they are configured for high volume, mass market cars, and the under-utilised asset already exists here. System updates to Broadmeadows Assembly and implemenation of virtual build systems have brought our manufacturing and design processes closer to Ford of Europe plants. Particularly EUCD vehicles.

But BossXR8 is correct.

[1TUFFUTE]

i still cant believe one of the best sedans..if not the best...weve ever seen in australia is selling so badly. Its sad and amazing at the same time. Lets trust ford aus is doing the best they can in damage reduction and end up maybe giving us a new gobal model we can build here in aus and put the falcon badge or something else australian themed.

[Bossxr8]

God I hope they don't stick Falcon badges on it.

Let it die with some dignity rather than become a FWD global car.

A Falcon is an aussie designed, engineered and built RWD 6 or V8 (bar eb4), not a Euro designed FWD 4 potter.

[aualright]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

God I hope they don't stick Falcon badges on it.

Let it die with some dignity rather than become a FWD global car.

A Falcon is an aussie designed, engineered and built RWD 6 or V8 (bar eb4), not a Euro designed FWD 4 potter.

Definitely can't rebadge a global car and call it a Falcon. It would be like calling a hairdresser's convertible a Capri!

On a tangent...I had an American cousin visit not too long ago and when he saw the XR8 being restored in the garage, he said 'you guys still make Falcons?'.

On one hand it is an Australian icon, albeit an adopted one, and on the other hand it is ancient Ford history.

****

[Agile]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

i still cant believe one of the best sedans..if not the best...weve ever seen in australia is selling so badly. Its sad and amazing at the same time. Lets trust ford aus is doing the best they can in damage reduction and end up maybe giving us a new gobal model we can build here in aus and put the falcon badge or something else australian themed.

Let me tell you how to keep Ford Of Austra;ia [ and Holden, and Toyota, and every other manufacterer] viable. Drop the price. Drop manufacturing costs to maintain profitability. Drop wages and all utilitiy charges.

Let me tell you something else. That aint gunna happen. GAME OVER. Ford will be followed by GMH and Toyota soon after.

Australia" The TOO Lucky Country". Have a read and tell me I'm wrong

Very pessimistic but, hey, you cant beat the truth.

[RASER]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Which plants would that be. China is flat out providing for their market and Thailand doesn't have any extra capacity AFAIK.

Unless the management of FoA and more importantly in HQ USA are totally brain-dead, they would be insane to bother manufacture here in AUS

Bastard unions
High costs involved
Small market
Nil export prospects
Bizzare vehicle standards
Low quality
Overpriced [Cost of doing business here]
etc

Its nothing we have not seen before with whitegoods and electroincs, China is now the workshop of the world, get over it.

They would sooner invest billions in China and India, where u automatically pick up a market of 2 billion plus v 20 million, not rocket science is it, and i doubt those goverments tip in a cent AND would not hinder either

[RASER]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

i still cant believe one of the best sedans..if not the best...weve ever seen in australia is selling so badly. Its sad and amazing at the same time. Lets trust ford aus is doing the best they can in damage reduction and end up maybe giving us a new gobal model we can build here in aus and put the falcon badge or something else australian themed.

Well for the record i am a multi Falcon owner, and a happy one at that, but a quasi orphan is always going to be a orphan no matter how you polish or dish it out.

[RASER]

Originally Posted by Agile

Let me tell you how to keep Ford Of Austra;ia [ and Holden, and Toyota, and every other manufacterer] viable. Drop the price. Drop manufacturing costs to maintain profitability. Drop wages and all utilitiy charges.

Let me tell you something else. That aint gunna happen. GAME OVER. Ford will be followed by GMH and Toyota soon after.

Australia" The TOO Lucky Country". Have a read and tell me I'm wrong

Very pessimistic but, hey, you cant beat the truth.

China has raped eveyone, nobody can compete with them, the communists make sure of that, the only ones who have survived are the "premium" brands, and the irony China is the biggest market for them!

BigT[tm.F/0] Toyota will be the last one standing here, because its a vastly better built product than the American owned, but made here jobs [thats u too LionKing] and actually has what the punters want to buy, the Camry and very strong export program to boot.

Falcon had a 50 years run, thats amazing really, no shame in that!

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

God I hope they don't stick Falcon badges on it.

Let it die with some dignity rather than become a FWD global car.

A Falcon is an aussie designed, engineered and built RWD 6 or V8 (bar eb4), not a Euro designed FWD 4 potter.

Doubt they would keep the badge. You would think they would wanna start with a fresh name seeing as the Falcon doesn't hold the name it once did.

[Brazen]

The Falcon name is fine, if it wasnt for the name 'Falcon' it would be selling a lot less, almost Mondeo-type numbers.

There is no performance/luxury V8, there is no wagon and there is no diesel.

No one ever wanted a 4 cylinder Falcon for a 6 cylinder price, and fleets moved elsewhere once Ford went to the trouble of developing EcoLPI and didnt even offer it in a wagon.

Frankly the only thing saving Falcon and keeping it outselling cars like the Toyota Aurion, is its heritage.