Ford tried to save our manufacturing plants: Mullaly

[monte.b]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

Well said Road_Warrior. Put it in laymen terms, Ford had to pull out cause our govt made it impossible for us.

Why put it in laymens terms ,most here can read and most are not stupid so there is no need to belittle us by saying that thanks ,but i agree every govement since and including whitlam has been dead set on stuffing our manufacturing base and they have done a very good job at it

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

Its called government policy. You see, some countries use the following policies to encourage local assembly.
(1) Tariffs on imported products thus locally made products get a fair price advantage.
(2) Reduced tax on companies that manufacturer locally.
(3) Control government depts to buy local only.
(4) Incent businesses to buy local by introducing up front depriciation writebacks.

Australia has done none of the above to assist.

Problem with imposing a blanket tarriff on imported cars is that Australia doesn't make enough cars to cover every segment on the market, so there are bound to be gaps that need to be filled in by imports. People shouldn't be forced to pay more because their needs in a car is not fulfilled by an Australian made alternative.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by NX74205

Problem with imposing a blanket tarriff on imported cars is that Australia doesn't make enough cars to cover every segment on the market, so there are bound to be gaps that need to be filled in by imports. People shouldn't be forced to pay more because their needs in a car is not fulfilled by an Australian made alternative.

So do it as a competing industries tax. Have it applied to anything being sold in the same category as a locally built vehicle.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

So do it as a competing industries tax. Have it applied to anything being sold in the same category as a locally built vehicle.

What's the "same category", though? Who gets to decide that? Is a Mercedes-Benz E Class / BMW 5 Series / Audi A6 the "same category" as a Ford Falcon, even though it is highly unlikely that these cars will be cross-shopped against the Falcon?

Or what about the Bentley Flying Spur / Rolls-Royce Ghost ... "same category" as a Holden Caprice V?

[FPV GTHO]

They manage to make a distinction for VFacts data. If they can't agree to use that then something like the FCAI can come up with another set of criteria.

[janddbone]

We already have a 5% tariff... Instead of it getting lost in general revenue why not offset local manufacturers R&D.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by brett.r.johnstone

We already have a 5% tariff... Instead of it getting lost in general revenue why not offset local manufacturers R&D.

Cars from Thailand have no tariff at all.

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Cars from Thailand have no tariff at all.

And the Territory got hit with a 50% SUV Tax in return. Love Free Trade Agreements, not worth the paper they are written on.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by bungarra

And the Territory got hit with a 50% SUV Tax in return. Love Free Trade Agreements, not worth the paper they are written on.

It's a capacity tax of 33% on imports 2.0-3.0 litres to protect local manufacturing - quite legal under FTAs...

That's why I recon Australia should reciprocate all taxes imposed by Thailand on our vehicles, see how they like it.
Damned sure those silly taxes would get dropped in a heartbeat, and then do the same with Korea and Japan,
anywhere that doesn't play ball on reciprocal FTAs gets their own taxes bounced back at them.

[FPV GTHO]

It would probably go down as well as the FBT changes did unfortunately.

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Or more correctly, every Asian country our local carmakers try to export to suddenly has a capacity tax on imports,
completely legal under free trade agreement but obviously set up to block imports.

Perhaps our country should impose the same taxes on vehicles from those countries
I'm sure Ranger, Hilux and Colorado buyers would be thrilled with a 33% capacity tax...

They would be the same price as what they are today. Just far less margin by the manufacturers.

[KW XRT]

Would have been nice to see the investment to get the Falcon ready for export.Surely there's a market for it in America.

[Moby Vic]

Like there was for the Pontiac GTO and G8? (Holden Monaro and Commodore.)

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Moby Vic

Like there was for the Pontiac GTO and G8? (Holden Monaro and Commodore.)

They are exporting Commodore now, so there must be a market!!

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

They are exporting Commodore now, so there must be a market!!

There is no market in the US for aussie built cars. Just propaganda by Holden. If you look at the numbers the Aussie built stuff sold in the US, the numbers are neglible.

[Moby Vic]

Police only. Will they sell at a profit? GM has already gone bankrupt once, you know.

Plus, Holden already exported to other LHD markets.

[Road_Warrior]

Territory would have been a far more viable export proposition provided that it's levels of equipment were lineball with the mainstream overseas offerings and it had Euro 5 capable engines.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

There is no market in the US for aussie built cars. Just propaganda by Holden. If you look at the numbers the Aussie built stuff sold in the US, the numbers are neglible.

So they went ahead and certified and engineered the VF for the the US market as part of a Holden propaganda campaign aimed at no one for no particular reason, with the goal of making no sales.

I didn't get that from Holdens export plans, but each to their own.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

So they went ahead and certified and engineered the VF for the the US market as part of a Holden propaganda campaign aimed at no one for no particular reason, with the goal of making no sales.

Sounds vaguely like the Pontiac G8 plan....

But seriously, Deveraux is on record as saying Holden really needs the Aussie dollar at or below 80 cents...

This is GMNA throwing Holden a bone...

[Moby Vic]

I'm sure Holden intends to sell many cars in the US. But let's see how it goes. It didn't work out so well the last two times.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

There is no market in the US for aussie built cars. Just propaganda by Holden. If you look at the numbers the Aussie built stuff sold in the US, the numbers are neglible.

And neglible numbers in the US, add real volume numbers to an Australian production lines!!


JPD80: I thought Deveraux is on record as saiding they'd like the dollar at 90 cents not too long ago??

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

And neglible numbers in the US, add real volume numbers to an Australian production lines!!


JPD80: I thought Deveraux is on record as saiding they'd like the dollar at 90 cents not too long ago??

I can't find the reference but he did indicate exactly what you sad in regards wanting the dollar at 90 cents
but I felt sure that he went on to say that in order to make it more profitable, Holden would prefer the dollar down
in the 70 to 80 cent region - which is completely understandable and 80 cents is something the reserve should look to do.....

PS, I've heard that Elizabeth is busy making plenty of Chev SS as dealer demo stock,
there's around 3,000 US Chevrolet dealerships.....

[Bossxr8]

I'm pretty sure they do their costings around 80c I think.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I'm pretty sure they do their costings around 80c I think.

It would seem costings are done at parity with the USD

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257B650014F000

[eb2fairmont]

Well if the dollar keeps dropping the ss plan will be cream to Holden.

[Bossxr8]

That article doesn't say that at all, it says they expect the dollar to remain around parity. Obviously it was written before the dollar dropped.

I have heard him say in the past they are basing their costings on the US export program at around 80c, cause that is where they expected the aussie dollar to be at. But obviously it will change from year to year. It's all just guesswork.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

It would seem costings are done at parity with the USD

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257B650014F000

Joe that was in regards to plans for manufacturing in Australia and and allows for imported supplies/resources at parity with the US dollar.

The write-down and the 500 redundancies signaled last year were part of a strategy to set GMH up for a “solid, long term future manufacturing in Australia”.

Mr Devereux said the plan assumed that the exchange rate with the US dollar would stay above parity.

.

There is also a quote where Deveraux also says that costs have increased something like 60% since 2008,
that's mostly thanks to the soaring dollar or more correctly the weak US dollar.

Either way, a falling dollar against the US greenback is sweet music to exporters, Holden included.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by Moby Vic

I'm sure Holden intends to sell many cars in the US. But let's see how it goes. It didn't work out so well the last two times.

How is camaro doing in the US? Its basically a VE with new body. Having been to USA it is sad to say that the 3 box classic design is very yesteryear and SUV's and Pickup Trucks are all the craze over here, with economy hatchbacks and sport coupe on the other end of the scale. Commodore and Falcon could not compete in that market. Territory should have lived on as a US-built product, it truly is world class (X5 was territory's mentor and all X5's come from the states) and would have had a place in the US market.

[Moby Vic]

Camaro outsold Mustang for quite a while, thanks to a decade of pent-up demand from GM fans and a huge marketing boost from its Transformers tie in.

I read a book about the new Camaro. Its construction is much more complicated than slapping a different body on a VE. The chassis was modified significantly, with the locations of both front and rear axles moved forward (I think wheelbase was changed also), and the front suspension entirely redesigned to be lower and accommodate larger wheels. This was all done to preserve the cartoonish proportions of the concept car, which Chevrolet unbelievably designed and showed to the public with no plans to put the vehicle in production.

Contrast this approach with Ford, which designed the production version (including chassis) of the 2005 Mustang and then created a radical concept that predicted the styling of the production car.

Any wonder why GM went bankrupt and Ford didn't?

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

That article doesn't say that at all, it says they expect the dollar to remain around parity. Obviously it was written before the dollar dropped.

I have heard him say in the past they are basing their costings on the US export program at around 80c, cause that is where they expected the aussie dollar to be at. But obviously it will change from year to year. It's all just guesswork.

The costing rate at 80 cents was 3-4 years back, I can remember (very well) that Holden changed their costing rate to 1.00. I remember this, because Holden moved to the 1.00 costing rate about a year after the company I work for did & I said at the time "about bloody time".