Breaking News: Holden to cease manufacturing in Australia in 2017

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Would you people buy Falcons and commodores if they shipped the production lines to China, Thailand or India?

Just Curious.

If either still produced a fairdinkum ute like they presently do, then.. Absobloodylutely..
I'd even learn the language so I could read the owners manual..
V8 or turbo 6 utes... If WE don't make them anymore, then I don't care if they're made by the friggin Taliban, providing I can still buy one!

[GREGL]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

If either still produced a fairdinkum ute like they presently do, then.. Absobloodylutely..
I'd even learn the language so I could read the owners manual..
V8 or turbo 6 utes... If WE don't make them anymore, then I don't care if they're made by the friggin Taliban, providing I can still buy one!

Just imagine the customer care centre call ." hello my falcodore just died can you send a roadside assist person and is it covered by warranty ? "
Overseas operator " bloody aussie ringing during my dinner have they no manners ? "

[OCTANEBOSS]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Would you people buy Falcons and commodores if they shipped the production lines to China, Thailand or India?

Just Curious.

No way. Would have to buy a hoist to replace the parts that **** emselves every month. IMO QA/QC has a long way to go in china.. A hoist would be good thou

[fte50]

I personally would never purchase a vehicle manufactured in China or India.
Although China is the global manufacturing powerhouse and China & India will continue to evolve and improve its quality, at present I believe the workforce does not have enough vested expertise to compete with our quality standards in practice, and that will take at least a generation to realise, despite the corporations investing in the best quality systems.
But that's just my thought.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by fte50

I personally would never purchase a vehicle manufactured in China or India.
Although China is the global manufacturing powerhouse and China & India will continue to evolve and improve its quality, at present I believe the workforce does not have enough vested expertise to compete with our quality standards in practice, and that will take at least a generation to realise, despite the corporations investing in the best quality systems.
But that's just my thought.

Ok, agree about China & India (won't be long until they're up to spec though)
Thailand then?.... An R-spec 335 GT Falcon made in Thailand???? Yes or No?

[fte50]

If they were 10-15K cheaper I would seriously consider. I think that's a fair call given the high profit margins after paying its workforce the equivalent of a Big Mac per week.
Otherwise no, I would look at Euro.

[Bossxr8]

I would not be surprised if Chevrolet took over from Holden, and we started to see a lot more US made Chevs here.

It would put a lot of Chev badge sellers out of business, bringing on an even bigger recession. Maybe they could switch to selling Holden badges for bogans to put on their Chevs.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I would not be surprised if Chevrolet took over from Holden, and we started to see a lot more US made Chevs here.

It would put a lot of Chev badge sellers out of business, bringing on an even bigger recession. Maybe they could switch to selling Holden badges for bogans to put on their Chevs.

Good thought, Maybe Ford fans can put Lincoln, Mercury or Troller badges on their cars.

[PepeLePew]

Rico to be clear that wasn't aimed at anyone in particular.

Charliewool relevant political comment is welcome from a policy perspective, but without turning posts into how to vote cards or blame games, and keeping the comment relevant to the topic. Otherwise the content we are supposed to be discussing as a automotive forum tends to get lost.

[Rico 110s]

Originally Posted by PepeLePew

Rico to be clear that wasn't aimed at anyone in particular.

Charliewool relevant political comment is welcome from a policy perspective, but without turning posts into how to vote cards or blame games, and keeping the comment relevant to the topic. Otherwise the content we are supposed to be discussing as a automotive forum tends to get lost.

Thanks Pepe

I do see where you are coming from.

Maybe a thread should be started asking for a vote on who wants local industry to continue or not?

Once this is determined we can go from there...

[UberKnee]

I still chuckle at how many people are convinced that the demise of an already on life support car manufacturing in this country will kill the entire country and put us into a recession. It wont, if car manufacturing was that important to the Aussie economy it would have keeled over long ago not after we stop making the 3 cars a week we currently make in this country.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

I still chuckle at how many people are convinced that the demise of an already on life support car manufacturing in this country will kill the entire country and put us into a recession.

Chuckle all you like, but many Aussie's understand the value of manufacturing and the benefits it brings, therefore take comfort in the thought knowing Australia has a manufacturing presence and is not solely reliant on some gigantic hole in the ground out west, who sell our unprocessed minerals for sweet ef all to nations that process them and resell for many times more.

Recession or Kill the country ??? Maybe not. But it sure aint no national win or something we can be proud of.

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by fte50

Chuckle all you like, but many Aussie's understand the value of manufacturing and the benefits it brings, therefore take comfort in the thought knowing Australia has a manufacturing presence and is not solely reliant on some gigantic hole in the ground out west, who sell our unprocessed minerals for sweet ef all to nations that process them and resell for many times more.

Recession or Kill the country ??? Maybe not. But it sure aint no national win or something we can be proud of.

Im not saying its not a shame that Aussie manufacturing is coming to end but it wont destroy the country and force us all to live in cardboard boxes, that's just ridiculous doomsaying. As evidenced by the fact Holden and hemoraging money and even Toyota dont make a profit on local built-local sold cars Aussie manufacturing just isn't injecting that much money into the economy.

[ryeman]

^^^^so keeping breadwinners who keep families afloat and off the dole, not to mention the psychological harm, is just about the 'bottom line'.
I guess if your not in that boat the decision is easy.
Americans subsidise their auto industry to the tune of $260 US PER PERSON France $150 Canada $100
Our $18 is minuscule in comparison.
But we are ideologically pure, so I guess that's ok!

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by ryeman

^^^^so keeping breadwinners who keep families afloat and off the dole, not to mention the psychological harm, is just about the 'bottom line'.
I guess if your not in that boat the decision is easy.
Americans subsidise their auto industry to the tune of $260 US PER PERSON France $150 Canada $100
Our $18 is minuscule in comparison.
But we are ideologically pure, so I guess that's ok!

Macro econiomic reform and the impact on industries that have reached thier use by date is never easy. But you can't keep tipping money into a black hole that manufactures, sells and employs less every year.

Should the govt have kept the AWA factory open and subsidised some poor bloke to solder togther a black and white rotary dial TV in a teak wooden cabinent?

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by ryeman

^^^^so keeping breadwinners who keep families afloat and off the dole, not to mention the psychological harm, is just about the 'bottom line'.
I guess if your not in that boat the decision is easy.
Americans subsidise their auto industry to the tune of $260 US PER PERSON France $150 Canada $100
Our $18 is minuscule in comparison.
But we are ideologically pure, so I guess that's ok!

People lose their jobs all the time, its not the end of the world. Despite some media spin there's plenty of work out there.

The difference with American, Canadian, French manufacturing is they already have a large home market to sell too and all sell globally as well. We're a tiny corner of the world in the middle of nowhere, with little export. And even when we do export ala the VE/VF it doesn't do much good anyway. It doesn't make sense to keep an industry a float that is barely surviving as it is just for the sake of it.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by fte50

Chuckle all you like, but many Aussie's understand the value of manufacturing and the benefits it brings, therefore take comfort in the thought knowing Australia has a manufacturing presence and is not solely reliant on some gigantic hole in the ground out west, who sell our unprocessed minerals for sweet ef all to nations that process them and resell for many times more.

Recession or Kill the country ??? Maybe not. But it sure aint no national win or something we can be proud of.

"National win"
Given the level of "debate" in this forum I don't think too many will understand the importance of that. 10/10 for perseverance!

[Blinxnot]

Terrible news for the workers and their families at GMH.
There was mention of how this could also impact on Toyota Australia.
I am still trying to adjust to Fords decision to close Australian manufacturing.

[Spammy]

Indians may or may not be able to establish a robust funds management industry at some point in the future but unitil they do, its a very lucrative area for Australia. However, cheaper /better asian producers have already left us for dead in manufacturing...why would investment capital flow to a sector in Australia that is loss making and will remain so?

Remind me again how many mum and dad aussies actually buy aussie cars every year?

[UberKnee]

Its just a fact of life, people lose their jobs everyday, but they go out and find more work. Thats how the world has been since, well since we created the concept of jobs.

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

Its just a fact of life, people lose their jobs everyday, but they go out and find more work. Thats how the world has been since, well since we created the concept of jobs.

Maybe no big deal in your mining state, but this is a manufacturing region also, mining is a capital intensive industry and no where near as labour intensive.

[Rico 110s]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

Its just a fact of life, people lose their jobs everyday, but they go out and find more work. Thats how the world has been since, well since we created the concept of jobs.

Wake up uberknee your in dreamland!

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by Rico 110s

Wake up uberknee your in dreamland!

So people never lsoe their jobs, thats what your saying?

Originally Posted by Bill M

That's a bit different to "plenty of work"
You must be buddies with bobdabilda.

What do you want me to list every single available job in the country? There's plenty of work out there mate, don't pretend Australia's going to explode when Holden close shop.

Originally Posted by ryeman

Maybe no big deal in your mining state, but this is a manufacturing region also, mining is a capital intensive industry and no where near as labour intensive.

Mining has slowed down in WA admittedly, people are still finding new jobs though.

[eb2fairmont]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

So people never lsoe their jobs, thats what your saying?



What do you want me to list every single available job in the country? There's plenty of work out there mate, don't pretend Australia's going to explode when Holden close shop.



Mining has slowed down in WA admittedly, people are still finding new jobs though.

True there is work if your skilled and good at what you do. Not all the jobs at Gmh would fit this category.

And jobs in wa minng bah. Ask all the geologists and 457's who are out of work still.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

So people never lsoe their jobs, thats what your saying?



What do you want me to list every single available job in the country? There's plenty of work out there mate, don't pretend Australia's going to explode when Holden close shop.



Mining has slowed down in WA admittedly, people are still finding new jobs though.

My bad! Not every one can understand the benefits of a balanced economy.

[danzvtil]

its an employers responsibility to pay the correct wage and entitlements, BUT its the employees responsibility to add value to a business in order for it to make a profit so it can continue to operate.When external influences mean its no longer viable to operate a certain business then you need to accept change.
I am currently employed full time in a great job with some nice perks, but if my boss shut the doors tomorrow, i would clean the floors of my local mcdonalds with a toothbrush in order to pay the bills until something better came up. Im still astounded at the privilege people think they deserve in this country for little effort.

[1TUFFUTE]

If your good at your job...or skill yourself accordingly for a prospective job, and apply yourself.....you will always have work.
The amount of well payed jobs I've been offered or seen floating around that are well payed is astonishing. The key is if your just another usseless tyre kicker wanting a job, you'll never be in demand.

All these guys whinging about these plants shutting down are kidding themselves. These people are being given YEARS to look for more jobs....in my industry there isn't any required limit......and I've never gone a day with out a good job since the day I was offered an apprenticeship halfway through a course after high school.
Maybe it's just an overwhelming problem of LAZINESS in Australia...I don't know.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

All these guys whinging about these plants shutting down are kidding themselves. These people are being given YEARS to look for more jobs.....

This has got to be the biggest misconception bloated on FF since Fords announcement.
"Oh yes the blokes have 3 yrs notice too look for jobs".

Problem is you cant exactly in 99% of situations find a job today and start in 3yrs time. And to leave earlier at this stage means losing all the entitlements.

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

The amount of well payed jobs I've been offered or seen floating around that are well payed is astonishing. The key is if your just another usseless tyre kicker wanting a job, you'll never be in demand.....

Congratulations on your success, but I can tell you of MANY examples where hard working people (and mate, im really talking hard) will either struggle or never be able to find work again.
These people were absolute masters in their work, believe me when I say they worked like literal bulls in Holden's Foundry, in conditions at many times so extreme a donkey would have better sense in walking out.
As an example, Holden's Foundry ceased operations in May 2009 and an average of 2in5 people still unemployed. Those that have found work describe it as fill in work, or non meaningful work.
Do they want work = Yes
Are they able or willing to be retrained = Yes
Do they have ALOT to offer = Yes.
Will they ever be given opportunity again = In many cases NOT.
The example I refer to is Non Trades process workers, majority of all trades are in work.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by fte50

This has got to be the biggest misconception bloated on FF since Fords announcement.
"Oh yes the blokes have 3 yrs notice too look for jobs".

Problem is you cant exactly in 99% of situations find a job today and start in 3yrs time. And to leave earlier at this stage means losing all the entitlements.


Congratulations on your success, but I can tell you of MANY examples where hard working people (and mate, im really talking hard) will either struggle or never be able to find work again.
These people were absolute masters in their work, believe me when I say they worked like literal bulls in Holden's Foundry, in conditions at many times so extreme a donkey would have better sense in walking out.
As an example, Holden's Foundry ceased operations in May 2009 and an average of 2in5 people still unemployed. Those that have found work describe it as fill in work, or non meaningful work.
Do they want work = Yes
Are they able or willing to be retrained = Yes
Do they have ALOT to offer = Yes.
Will they ever be given opportunity again = In many cases NOT.
The example I refer to is Non Trades process workers, majority of all trades are in work.

Or the heavy maintenence guys from QANTAS here in Melbourne which got the ***, are still struggling to find work.

I think another problem is when there is a gap in your CV, it looks really bad and people won't want to employ you, thats what I've been hearing, gap year etc looks bad.

[borough]

Originally Posted by fte50

This has got to be the biggest misconception bloated on FF since Fords announcement.
"Oh yes the blokes have 3 yrs notice too look for jobs".

Problem is you cant exactly in 99% of situations find a job today and start in 3yrs time. And to leave earlier at this stage means losing all the entitlements.

The whole thing of the workers not being able to look for work because they will lose their entitlements if the leave before the closure does not wash with me. It is their choice not to look for new job. Just after I purchased a house everyone at the company I worked for were brought in and told that the company was in receivership. So I went out the next day and started to look for a new job, entitlements didn't enter the equation as I needed to work. I found a more stable job and haven't looked back.

Frankly Ford and Holden have brought the closures upon themselves by not moving with the market and quality issues. I have had more problems with my Falcon in the two years of ownership than I had in six with my Suzuki Swift.