Chinese Military Build Up - 60 minutes this Sunday - Page 5

blownvn · 06-09-2010, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

There was a time when every Australian was required to have a working knowledge of firearms in case we were needed to defend our country.

Now there are fridge magnets and counselling........

Yep, and Australia is poorer for it. The Swiss have the right idea.

[Tonko] · 06-09-2010, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyd

Hmmm, so you are saying the Dalai Lama is a bit like the Pope only without the dogmatic disregard to global health.....

Cheers

James

Regardless of the global health idea, the Dalai Lama was just a dictator. a very smart one but still...
Being like the Pope is a bit of a stretch, but basically It was more than blind faith, it's life for the people of tibet (during his reign)

castellan · 06-09-2010, 08:41 PM

Rudd would not even shake the Dalai Lama's hand for fear of his mate's in China. what a gutless low life wimp!

It did not take much to start WW2 did it.
And the real reason for the war was mainly to do with the financial strengths.

Every war is mainly about financial power and position and the rest of it is mainly just about feeding the chooks.

Commerce is the big fella, start playing with him and look out. end of story.

Road_Warrior · 06-09-2010, 08:55 PM

Having spent a bit of time in China, I think I can safely say that I know a little bit about internal politics of that place and how it is run, and what sort of issues there are. The main reason China maintains such a large standing army is not for a planned conquest of Asia, or as a vanguard against some long defunct threat of invasion from the Soviets, but because it needs that many troops to maintain internal control of its provinces, particularly the large semi-autonomous provinces in the west of China. Not to mention the numerous strikes and disputes that arise in China all the time, as well as disaster relief. You don't hear much about this sort of thing in western media - we do get reports of some incidents, which is 100% more than 15 years ago when the State put a clamp on all bad news leaving the country, but we hear but a small percentage of what really goes on there.

With every passing year, the global economy or globalisation becomes more entrenched. Interdependency on the economies of other nations becomes more pressing than military prowess or territorial ambitions. With every passing generation, prosperity and well-being becomes more dependent on economics and goodwill, as governments gradually drift to the left. Changes to immigration laws over time, all over the world, has meant that it becomes less and less necessary for an armed power to subjugate the territory of another for whatever reason. The growth in political networking and general 'world savvy' of the pollies of nations has paralleled the trend in global economics. The days of sabre rattling by an insular backwater are coming to an end.

With power comes responsibility. China has realised over time that with the growth of its economic and military power, so too has its responsibility to act...uhh, responsibly in the global community. It can't carry on like Chairman Mao any more because they understand that the ramifications are far reaching and long term.

China is not preparing for an invasion of Australia. What it is doing however, is preparing itself for a possible future confrontation n with the United States over the South East Asian region, which of course is an area where we have an interest. Defence planners obviously realise this and are tooling up to account for it - just in case.

dannyhilton · 06-09-2010, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoreSlamR

We get just about all our steel from China.

And this is where China don't need to invade because they already have us bent over, we process the iron ore, sell it to China for a nice cheap price and then buy the steel back at a ridiculous premium.

I'd argue that a huge chunk of commercial, domestic and industrial building products are still Australian steel. BlueScope, while not 100% Australia owned, still supply a vast amount of Australian steel to the building industry. While some companies do sell imported material, many companies sell only BlueScope Steel. The company I work for uses only BlueScope steel, and we're a major player in building products.

As for China invading, having not lived through any of the World Wars my opinion may seem naive, but I believe wars like the Cold War are more likely than another World War (as I'm sure if China did invade, it would result in a World War). The Doomsday Clock is still ticking very close to midnight however...

jaysway · 06-09-2010, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

There was a time when every Australian was required to have a working knowledge of firearms in case we were needed to defend our country.

Now there are fridge magnets and counselling........

we can thank the do-gooders for that

Jim Goose · 06-09-2010, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysway

we can thank the do-gooders for that

Nothing stops you from becoming a Army reservist....

Road_Warrior · 06-09-2010, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysway

we can thank Martin Bryant for that

Fixed.

**Full Noise** · 06-09-2010, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason[98.EL]

ohh no we all better go and dig holes in our back yards

THE CHINESE ARE INVADING

Can’t do that. The local council has just passed the (No diggin’ holes in your own backyard to avoid invading Chinese) by law. And the fines are bloody huge.

I think it would be safer to hide out in Chinatown. They’d never think to look there.

Keepleft · 07-09-2010, 02:52 AM

ROC's Armed Forces Website:-
http://english.chinamil.com.cn/

Many vids"-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IANjtzSY5c&NR=1

Those with C band satellite setup, can view China's Armed Forces Channel, CCTV7 on Chinasat6B.

(Japan's build-up is understandable).

Barry_v · 07-09-2010, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Can’t do that. The local council has just passed the (No diggin’ holes in your own backyard to avoid invading Chinese) by law. And the fines are bloody huge.

If it rains between now and the invasion, be careful not to break water restrictions by bailing the water out onto your lawn during daylight hours.

platinumXR · 07-09-2010, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Nothing stops you from becoming a Army reservist....

Spot on.

platinumXR · 07-09-2010, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

There was a time when every Australian was required to have a working knowledge of firearms in case we were needed to defend our country.

Now there are fridge magnets and counselling........

Yeah I am with you on that one.

Kid's don't get that they can still run around shooting things and blowing stuff up...all the fun stuff - just not in Campsie or Mac' Fields. But I guess it's the taking orders part...

flappist · 07-09-2010, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Nothing stops you from becoming a Army reservist....

Apart from:

No base in your local area (and not everyone can spend 6 weeks a year in 25/49RQR).
Confliction with your actual job schedule (working Tue night and weekends).
Health and/or minor disability.

Just to name a few.

And besides that, basic operation of a F88 is to shooting what go-carts is to driving.

bungarra · 07-09-2010, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Apart from:

No base in your local area (and not everyone can spend 6 weeks a year in 25/49RQR).
Confliction with your actual job schedule (working Tue night and weekends).
Health and/or minor disability. That is where the Israeli's get it right, everyon can serve, a friend in Israel has a heart valve problem, the military had him driving trucks and support roles, they even did an op a year ago to fix the valves, still can't be classified for infantry, but still serves. I think our givernment has got it wrong and is probably letting good people miss out. Coudl use a lot of the more medicallly fit on frontline units.

And besides that, basic operation of a F88 is to shooting what go-carts is to driving. The F88 was chosen as the licence to build the M16/M4 was held by the Phillipines for Asia Pacific. One of the other choices of weapon was an Israeli weapon, not chosen on political grounds and another Australian designed weapon, but as it had not been proven in military use it was rejected! Could have had an Australian designed and manufactureed weapon but we have to buy everything from overseas.

Unfortunately Australia doesn't see any advantage from anyone who is not almost at peak fitness for military service. The same applied in WW2 until the Japs hit PNG, then all of a sudden people who had failed medicals before could get in. Should look at the Israeli's more, everyone serves one way or another.

Danny · 07-09-2010, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken2903

[60 Minutes] Is just an hour long today tonight that screens on sunday nights and rides the coat tails of its past (very past) credibility.

Oh Christ, I could NOT have put that any better. I will be remembering that quote for future conversations. I HATE these shows, they are pathetic blood sucking, laughable ratings machines sucking in the gullible and taking advantage of the poor and less well heeled.

Jason[98.EL] · 07-09-2010, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Can’t do that. The local council has just passed the (No diggin’ holes in your own backyard to avoid invading Chinese) by law. And the fines are bloody huge.

I think it would be safer to hide out in Chinatown. They’d never think to look there.

I forgot about that

flappist · 07-09-2010, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungarra

And besides that, basic operation of a F88 is to shooting what go-carts is to driving. The F88 was chosen as the licence to build the M16/M4 was held by the Phillipines for Asia Pacific. One of the other choices of weapon was an Israeli weapon, not chosen on political grounds and another Australian designed weapon, but as it had not been proven in military use it was rejected! Could have had an Australian designed and manufactureed weapon but we have to buy everything from overseas.

Yes that is quite amusing really.

1) The patent on all the M16 tech ran out long ago, we could have easily made them and in fact there were two companies building them here in the early 90s (one in Brisbane the other in Melbourne)

2) The AAA rifle designed in Tasmania had just as much proven military use as the OMC (our greatest design ever), M14, M16, and even the AUG on which the F88 is based when they all first went into service.

3) We do import quite a few M4s for Military/Police use. They seem to work ok despite not being made in LSAF.

Like the Collins class subs, the F88 was a "political" decission and we will be stuck with them for a while yet.

gtfpv · 07-09-2010, 12:29 PM

great thread and worthy discussion here for sure .
one thing for me is "60 MINUTES CAN GO JUMP FROM NOW ON . i used to like watching it . now i think it's the most pathetic derogitory disgracefull excuse for TV veiwing it has to be down there with the big brother show .

gtfpv · 07-09-2010, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes that is quite amusing really.

1) The patent on all the M16 tech ran out long ago, we could have easily made them and in fact there were two companies building them here in the early 90s (one in Brisbane the other in Melbourne)

2) The AAA rifle designed in Tasmania had just as much proven military use as the OMC (our greatest design ever), M14, M16, and even the AUG on which the F88 is based when they all first went into service.

3) We do import quite a few M4s for Military/Police use. They seem to work ok despite not being made in LSAF.

Like the Collins class subs, the F88 was a "political" decission and we will be stuck with them for a while yet.

little bit of sarcasm here . why have guns here when australia is made up of every race on earth . anyone attacking australia would be attacking , chinese , japanese, pommies , irish , uncle sams , afghanis, yugoslaves, africans, arabs, and somewhere there> (dinky di aussies) < sorry if that offends.
if we all had gunns and war broke out , we wouldn't know who to shoot, you'd have to just take randon pot shots at your neighbour , just in case.

**GasoLane** · 07-09-2010, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Use the word "journalist" with a grain of salt when it comes to the 'presenters" of 60mins these days.

C'mon. Thats a bit rough, after all didn't they have Mark Latham on their crew during the election campaign

SM1DY · 07-09-2010, 01:21 PM

I knew there was something fishy about those Great Wall cars, they're Tranformers, robots in disguise. Seeing as though they're Chinese, they're probably poorly built.

Jason[98.EL] · 07-09-2010, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GasOLane

C'mon. Thats a bit rough, after all didn't they have Mark Latham on their crew during the election campaign

is that guy on

ELGT4me · 07-09-2010, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnige

read the book or watch the movie "tomorrow when the war began" thats excatly what happens. another country invades australia becose of its mineral weath

Considering what China, Japan, Rio Tinto & BHP/Billiton own, then add what Anglo Gold, Xstrata already own. As to who owns what & where they will invade should be real interesting!!!

platinumXR · 07-09-2010, 03:35 PM

**fordomatic** · 07-09-2010, 05:34 PM

the f88 is the most unreliable weapon i have ever used, why we didnt bring the m4 or C8 in service at least for the infantry is beyond me. and now they are "upgrading" we are stuck with it for at least another 15 years. It's hard to clean, extremely heavy with attachments, not well balanced, difficult for left handed firers, not suitable for a variety of firers as the butt is not adjustable and cant handle a high volume of fire for more than a couple of minutes before stopping. its already well behind other weapon systems such as the new HK416 which is a much refined copy of the M4.

Soon the time will come when the USA will be china's puppets. if they come here we done and dusted. oh and whoever said Indonesia is more of a threat: they hardly have an air force or navy. most there aircraft was donated to them by Australia. And most there ships were donated to them by Germany. they don't have chance.

Keepleft · 07-09-2010, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordomatic

oh and whoever said Indonesia is more of a threat: they hardly have an air force or navy. most there aircraft was donated to them by Australia. And most there ships were donated to them by Germany. they don't have chance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xruThwvXZVE

Indonesia builds, they are wary of the growing China.

US are training Indon troops again, they'll be an ally:-)

As at 2008, Indon had a projected 63,800,825 males aged 18-49 available for 'national service'. If they so choose...

Interceptor · 07-09-2010, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SM1DY

I knew there was something fishy about those Great Wall cars, they're Tranformers, robots in disguise. Seeing as though they're Chinese, they're probably poorly built.

probably?????

bungarra · 08-09-2010, 03:37 PM

[QUOTE=Keepleft
Indonesia builds, they are wary of the growing China.

US are training Indon troops again, they'll be an ally:-)

As at 2008, Indon had a projected 63,800,825 males aged 18-49 available for 'national service'. If they so choose...[/QUOTE]

Indonesian Kopassus (SF) Units and Detachment 88 (Police SF) were once trained by the SAS at Campbell Barracks. The Kopassus troops were behind the militia in East Timor.

Having spent a bit of time in Indonesia and seeing how they operate, Kopassus and D88 are hard fighters, the general TNI are undertrained, but with the Russian and German advisors coming there soon, may be entirely different in a couple of years.

My poor XF · 08-09-2010, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordomatic

. oh and whoever said Indonesia is more of a threat: they hardly have an air force or navy. most there aircraft was donated to them by Australia. And most there ships were donated to them by Germany. they don't have chance.

They would be more of threat purely thanks to there geographic location and population size. And I doubt that su-27's and su-30's and the f16's they have were donated by Australia.