Should drivers over 70 hand in their keys ?

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by monzie

Here we go again, another truck bashing thread.

maybe these knockers of trucks need to 'walk in my shoes' and actually get into a metro delivery truck for a few days then they might actually see the real world eh?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Focusfan

Funny how over the years we overlook some other very important issues in driver deaths on the road.

We focus on drivers because we can make money off them.

[xtremerus]

Focusfan
I think you need to remove your Euro blinkers.

[Focusfan]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

maybe these knockers of trucks need to 'walk in my shoes' and actually get into a metro delivery truck for a few days then they might actually see the real world eh?

Not knocking the majority of truck drivers, just the few that seem to think road rules do not apply to them.
Things that do not help truck drivers are poor road planning as well. Sharp corners with little room so they have to stay out
in the next lane to do a left turn and lights that should have longer
amber time so drivers have extra few seconds to stop.
Xtremerus am not really a euro fan in general but do you have any info to prove what I said is incorrect then go ahead and do so please.
Would love some info to say Aussie cars are safer than Euro cars.?
Only thing I know of is they are heavier, weight and fuel consumption.
Admit they have more go but is it a big enough difference to make it worth spending an extra $500 per year on fuel.?
Is a good reason why Toyota corolla is a big seller, not the looks or tech input but low fuel consumption would be biggest draw card.
By the way I dislike Toyota's intensely.
Last sorry to be long time to reply as I was away some time and working
and in between was ill so was not doing much internet.

[Trevor 57]

Not knocking the majority of truck car drivers, just the few that seem to think road rules do not apply to them.

Things that do not help truck car drivers are poor road planning as well.

Originally Posted by Focusfan

Sharp corners with little room so they have to stay out in the next lane to do a left turn

this statement here show you COMPLETE ignorance of trucks

[Focusfan]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Not knocking the majority of truck car drivers, just the few that seem to think road rules do not apply to them.

Things that do not help truck car drivers are poor road planning as well.








this statement here show you COMPLETE ignorance of trucks

This reply shows you drive with your eyes closed.
I worked with semi drivers for years and still keep in contact with one who is a long time friend.
Where I work I go through a very busy intersection where 50% of morning peak traffic is trucks.
Most are single trailer and also a lot of doubles. coming from one direction they have to swing out into next lane to get around the corner
or all the rear wheels go over footpath.
Every day I see at least a number of tippers run the red light late. Green already on for other traffic to go.
I guess you consider this ok by your reply or am I misunderstanding you.?
Road planning sucks for truck drivers, cars are smaller and do not have the same issues of large trucks on the road so please clarify your
reply so I can understand where you are coming from.

[mik]

Bloody hell, getting around suburbia is just frightening at times( i know i say that in every driving thread....but nothing changes),

in my neck of the woods (Melb Nth) we have some of the most "special drivers", by the same token they are not all bad, some are very good ,
but some are pure frightening to watch, the Kmart car park is a classic,
i have seen an accident in the car park that would have done justice to a full on 60 kph crash, both cars had to be tilted away , probably write offs, people drive like morons in among a full on busy shopping centre and out on the road.

as for the licence handing in ......... its not rocket science, everybody point blank , needs to have a medical what ever the age, every 5 years would be fair i think , full blood test, drugs, the works, it is not such an imposition if you value your brief and it may just alert some people to incoming health problems,
for those young among us, there is a need to have a medical regardless of age with the proliferation of party drugs(sorry)....................... older folk perhaps 65 onward perhaps every 2 years for a medical and competency test..

The thing i see missing from our driving laws/skills, apart from the obvious medical testing....................... is once you get your ticket, there is not one single provision for a refresher course or for a competency test(how the hell can that be ? ),
a refresher course does not need to be a trip to the kistapo..... it just needs to make sure the driver has a decent understanding of the basic road rules, a short test on.... but not to fail a licence holder unless they are truly horrendous, but to assess what they need if anything to drive a bit safer since the last time they got their licence and competency.

If the powers that be where to put on the thinking cap, there is room here to :

A. make a whole new industry to employ some more people that are lost due to the diminishing manufacturing, they dont need to make a buck out of it , just employ some people and make the road service better, perhaps get some people off the dole.

B. add some improvement and common sense to our licencing and driving standards.

C. actually have data and make proper decisions who should be on the road and who needs to be getting a lift on the community bus.
Having thought about this for some time, i don`t think these are over the top requirements if you wish to drive on the road imo..

[commodorenutt]

I agree, it should cover all ages, and drug testing should be mandatory too (if truckies have to do it, so should car drivers).

I'd rather have a slow 80 year old on the road beside me, than an iced-up 25 year old who is ready to slam into the side of your car because you looked across to check your surroundings.


Competency tests should be done at least every 10 years, if not 5.
They should be closer together for inexperienced drivers (regardless of what age they get their licence), older drivers with medical issues, or people with poor at-fault accident records.

I recently got asked by a 50+ year old Aussie woman in the supermarket car park if I could reverse her car out, as she claimed someone parked too close to her. They were a good 500mm off her LH side.

I told her I'd guide her out, and she admitted she normally drives around & around for a spot where there's 2 vacant ones end-to-end, that she can drive through, so she doesn't have to reverse out, as she struggles with reversing, and has for over 35 years (that's why I'm guessing her age at 50+)

No licence test would have ever found that shortcoming. They don't even teach learners how to park in supermarket car parks, only how to do a parallel park.



But apart from competency, our licensing system needs a massive overhaul when it comes to road etiquette, things like:

- people think it's ok to crawl along a busy 60-70km/h road at 30km/h or less looking for an address, instead of pulling over to let the cars behind go around. (Or they simply slam on the brakes with no indication of what they are doing).

- people driving little cars think they have a 40 foot trailer behind them, and need to swing out into the right lane before they can make a left turn.

- similar to above, but those who on wide roads refuse to see the dotted line on the left shoulder, provided so they can move over into that temporary lane, to slow down & turn into a street, so they proceed to crawl around a left hand corner from the middle of the road.

- most new cars seem to have an interlink between the brake lights & the blinkers where the blinker won't flash until they dive on the brakes first. Or they think the bulbs have a finite life and every possible flash they can preserve is saving baby fur seals from extinction.... Whatever happened to "reasonable warning of an indication to turn"??? Hell most cyclists give better indications these days (or maybe the driver is too busy with lipstick/phone/coffee in their hand, and can't reach the blinker wand).


These issues above are what cause accidents, or cause frustration for other drivers who then do silly things to get away from them. The effects of this behaviour on other cars seem to go unnoticed by the arrogant, self-righteous mongrels driving like this.


The road is there to share, and driving is a privilege, not a right.
These 2 facts seem to have left society in the last 30 years.

[Focusfan]

Great replies. Agree to it all. And to add another I have seen Police look at cars driving like they are ****** scared and drive past them.
Seems obvious to me , no drivers license or car unroadworthy.
Maybe even alcohol or drugs involved but Police not interested as they are not doing 1 or 2 k's over speed limit. And car not a hoon looking car.
Had one tail me for 5 mins so stayed cool, they pulled up beside me at traffic lights and had a look so I wound down window
and said, hi fellas, hows your day. No reply, just a ugly look. Hmmmm.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Focusfan

This reply shows you drive with your eyes closed.
I worked with semi drivers for years and still keep in contact with one who is a long time friend.
Where I work I go through a very busy intersection where 50% of morning peak traffic is trucks.
Most are single trailer and also a lot of doubles. coming from one direction they have to swing out into next lane to get around the corner
or all the rear wheels go over footpath.
Every day I see at least a number of tippers run the red light late. Green already on for other traffic to go.
I guess you consider this ok by your reply or am I misunderstanding you.?
Road planning sucks for truck drivers, cars are smaller and do not have the same issues of large trucks on the road so please clarify your
reply so I can understand where you are coming from.

Goodness me, here I go again, I started driving trucks in 1976 officially, I drove full time up until 1987 when I became an advanced heavy vehicle driver trainer (not learn to drive), I travelled Australia and NZ conducting 'defensive' driver training for some multi-nationals and nationals, I also specialised in training emergency services people

In 2000 I went back driving, in B-Doubles for a short period, I have worked in the industry ever since

If you want to talk 'tippers' only then I will probably agree with you in most part, but they are paid per trip, so of course they are going to go like cut cat's. And many are new Australians, they will do the job for bugger all

Road design recently considers trucks, but they weren't considered when most roads were built, particularly in inner-city precincts. However saying that I have seen some terrible planning in suburban streets with regard to getting domestic garbage trucks in and out

[ebxr8240]

We should all drive 40 kph.. No such thing as safe speed..
It's always the other persons fault..lol

[irish2]

Just my 2c, but I have never had any problems with truckies. They can be a pain if they get out in the right lane, as they struggle to get back across. They only get out there though because so many slow and erratic car drivers.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by commodorenutt

The road is there to share, and driving is a privilege, not a right.
These 2 facts seem to have left society in the last 30 years.

Left Australian society. The rest of the developed world are much more courteous drivers. Also drive much faster, and more attentively.

[uniacidz]

My say

No

If they are fit and able, no need to judge based on age

[Itsme]

Does it really matter what type of licences or experience you have to drive on the roads, I think it boils down whether you still have your mental faculties to comprehend & react appropriately to every day driving conditions.

[olfella]

Well I reckon get rid of learner drivers, P platers, hoons and lairs in their hotted up cars and of course trucks then the roads would be safe for all of us old buggers. and TAXI'S I forgot taxi's!! and bikes!! dont need bikes on our roads.

[39ClevoUte]

50% of everybody and everything is below average. It's up to the top 90% (from the 40% below average to the 50% above average) to keep an eye out for the bottom 10% and take evasive action. That's what we all do now and it works pretty well. We need to slow down and relax on ths issue. See someone do something stupid, congratulations you are a good driver, bad drivers don't see it. IMO.

[jmack]

another idea that i have had for a while would be that you have to resit your license on your 30,40,50 and 60th birthday then 65 70 then every 2 years after that.people get bad habits driving over the years.this would have everyone concentrating for 6 to 12 months before and after you renew your license as well as a refresh on the road rules.problem with this is a lot of accidents are caused by unlicensed drivers who dont give a **** about the law and only inconvenience people who try hard to abide by the law.

[39ClevoUte]

I see more people driving like they have been taught on an X-Box than I do being old and dottery.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by jmack

another idea that i have had for a while would be that you have to resit your license on your 30,40,50 and 60th birthday then 65 70 then every 2 years after that.people get bad habits driving over the years.this would have everyone concentrating for 6 to 12 months before and after you renew your license as well as a refresh on the road rules.problem with this is a lot of accidents are caused by unlicensed drivers who dont give a **** about the law and only inconvenience people who try hard to abide by the law.

And who pays for all these retests?

As a nearly 60 yr old, who has paid through the nose for my "privalege" to drive through God knows how many regos, stamp duties and petrol taxes over my 40 yrs on the road....

I certainly ain't!!

[jmack]

i hear where you are coming from (although not quite your age)but something has to be done

[commodorenutt]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Road design recently considers trucks, but they weren't considered when most roads were built, particularly in inner-city precincts. However saying that I have seen some terrible planning in suburban streets with regard to getting domestic garbage trucks in and out

As a relative of a senior road designer (and project manager of some very large infrastructure projects) I can say that trucks have been considered on freeway & mayor urban & rural road designs for about 35 years now. Elevations of on-ramps, the lengths of merging lanes (especially when gaining slightly uphill) and the grades of long hills are all carefully worked out & engineered.

One example in Sydney is the location of the north bound M7 on-ramp at Elizabeth drive - located there so that trucks can have a downhill run onto the merge. Another is the length of the south-bound Williamson Rd on-ramp onto the F5 - it's 3x longer than most, because of the slight uphill grade.

Corners on country roads are often improved/realigned so they become a consistent radius, and have consistent camber for most of the duration of the corner, unlike the originals that were probably graded with horses & ploughs...car drivers rarely notice the changes, but heavy gp vehicle drivers do tend to notice the immediate benefits of reduced steering corrections, and more stable cornering when loaded.

There's not much they can do about 80 year old streets where suburbia encroached/expanded too far, too fast, but most new bypasses & widening projects in urban areas do consider heavy vehicles. City areas seem to have more concerns with busses than trucks though.

However, it all comes down to who is responsible for the road. Larger roads are state (or even federal) funded & worked on by the RTA/RMS or their equivalent in other states. Smaller streets in towns & cities often fall under councils, who aren't as thorough in their design (and are usually more concerned with keeping land developers happy...)

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by commodorenutt

Smaller streets in towns & cities often fall under councils, who aren't as thorough in their design (and are usually more concerned with keeping land developers happy...)

??????? - Council’s follow the same design rules and construction principals as the RMS.

As a basic descriptive outline:

In NSW the State Roads i.e. Freeways, Highways & Mainroads, the RMS look after Freeways and the Local Council’s design and supervise the construction of many of the Highways & Main Roads connecting towns and cities using funds allocated by the State.

Regional Roads i.e. the secondary road network between towns and sub-arterial roads in major urban centres are designed and supervised by the Local Council’s from funding allocated by the State.

Local Roads i.e. residential and anything that doesn’t fall into the above categories are designed and supervised by the Local Councils and only a limited amount of funding comes from the State, the rest comes from Council rates.

[1TUFFUTE]

I think age is only a small part of the problem. No doubt retesting elderly on a more often basis could help. BUT if anyone has noticed.....there's far worse problems that need to be dealt with....simple things like how to use roundabouts, "INDICATING" and other very basic driving skills.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

And who pays for all these retests?

As a nearly 60 yr old, who has paid through the nose for my "privalege" to drive through God knows how many regos, stamp duties and petrol taxes over my 40 yrs on the road....

I certainly ain't!!

I think they should be free and be a very simple testing process. Something along the lines of a Learners permit. If they allow learners to drive, then surely someone who can pass that, plus has 40plus years of experience, can drive. Obviously a vision check aswell if applicable....

[mik]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

And who pays for all these retests?

As a nearly 60 yr old, who has paid through the nose for my "privalege" to drive through God knows how many regos, stamp duties and petrol taxes over my 40 yrs on the road....

I certainly ain't!!

well medicals dont cost much Charliewool, and i guess there would be some small cost for a refresher/test, but i think it could be streamlined to be a fairly quick and cheap exercise if a bit of thought is put into it.
I`m getting into old fart territory too, you have to ask yourself , do you want to drive on safer roads ? if you screw up because you are not driving so well or have a medical condition and get caught or kill someone, how much will it cost ?

i would like to see it as a system where if someone actually is having trouble, or doubts about their driving skills they could go and volunteer for a a bit of skill adjustment without any kistapo type...... you must hand your licence in immediately, do not pass go do not collect $200.00 type crap.

just listening to posts in this thread and others you hear dear old having a bit of a swerve over the road, imagine if dear old dad had one of these refreshers and a medical and found out he had a treatable ear problem that had affected his balance and it fixed up..... we might actually help people out, it has to be a good thing even if it costs a few bob..

[LoudPipes]

When some of you get older you’ll find that we oldies are having routine medical check-ups all the time as a matter of course.

I don’t think there is a piece of me that hasn’t been probed, swabbed, ultasounded, x-rayed, drained, scraped, listened to or felt on a regular basis over the last 10 years.

If you want to live, medicals are a fact of life when you start hitting your mid 60’s to 70’s and onwards.

Incorporating a standard test for a driver’s licence during these check-ups should be easy.

[commodorenutt]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

??????? - [SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Council’s follow the same design rules and construction principals as the RMS.

Keep with the context of my post.

They certainly don't allow for minimum turning radius, or even decent lane widths in suburbia. And I'm talking about allowance for large vehicles in suburbia - they simply DON'T make allowances for them like the RTA/RMS have to do on urban roads, and every new housing estate is proof of that, where the number of lots they can squeeze out takes priority over the size of the roads.

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by 37Clevo

50% of everybody and everything is below average. It's up to the top 90% (from the 40% below average to the 50% above average) to keep an eye out for the bottom 10% and take evasive action. That's what we all do now and it works pretty well. We need to slow down and relax on ths issue. See someone do something stupid, congratulations you are a good driver, bad drivers don't see it. IMO.

You're very generous.

I would have to say more than 50% of drivers are very bad at it.
Sadly, some of these people think they are safe.

[fgpsi]

IMO I say no

Seen an old dude drop a massive banger and figure 8 in a manual black FG II GT-P on St Kilda road out in front of the cop shop, no shiit this guy must've been about 90