Falcon Ecoboost sales breakdown

[b0son]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

It uses less fuel and emits less CO2 than the sixes, yet it still isn't "green" enough for the NSW government...? WTF???

Because Euro isnt just about gCO2/km, its about NOx and particulates as well. IOW, it isnt just reducing the amount of combustion, its about improving the quality of that combustion too, and its this that is the tricky part of getting engines certified to ever higher standards.

Personally, I find it absurd that the total environmental footprint isnt considered... ie. the environmental cost of transporting all these vehicles to us from half way around the world. Given how few kms these vehicles are usually kept for in the public service fleet, the delivery CO2 cost is not insignificant, and possibly more than makes up for the measly half point the car missed out by.

[falconnut]

Maybe thats what Euro 7 will take into account.

I always wondered why they dont also take into consideration how much carbon is used to maintain and build the cars as well?

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by csv8

But, it will need to be fairly priced..not over priced like most Euro Fords..Just look at how Toyota and Subaru's new sports car has sold/sold out.. Subies in 3 hours!!!! If its premium priced, won't sell...Ford never learn...

From all reports it will be circa 40k. I do like the 86, but if i had a choice id take the ST hands down (Havnt driven either yet)

[dimka100]

I don't understand, the EcoBoost engine is Euro V compliant out of the box, how come when fitted to the Falcon it's suddenly not?

Is that another case of dumb Australian regulations that require manufacturers to test for the same thing already tested and certified overseas? (e.g. how importers have to test crash cars here even if the car was already certified in USA, EU, Japan, ets ...)

[falconnut]

Yeah the ADR is quite retarded, especially the NSW Regulations.

Fight the good fight and keep all those nasty pod filters off the road since their SO dangourous.

Australia is catching up fast in terms of idiot nanny state ideas.

I am quite disgusted about the complete lack of support from Fleet buyers as well, especially the Government sector, i thought they would be all over the Ecoboost.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by dimka100

I don't understand, the EcoBoost engine is Euro V compliant out of the box, how come when fitted to the Falcon it's suddenly not?

It's not just the engine being certified, it's the car its in.

The ACART emission centre is not yet approved as a Euro 5/6 certification laboratory....

The government is giving a free pass to vehicles certified overseas to higher standards.

[I6DOHC]

Originally Posted by falconnut

I am quite disgusted about the complete lack of support from Fleet buyers as well, especially the Government sector, i thought they would be all over the Ecoboost.

100% agree.

[jpd80]

I'd hate to think that Ford has pulled the trigger on job and production cuts just as Falcon and Territory appear to be improving...

[I6DOHC]

The whole point with Ecoboost ratings by the Green Vehicle Guide (government ratings) is that it doesn't have to be Euro V compliant, it's just that Ford have to supply the necessary tests/information so the pollution rating can be upgraded.

This has to be how Holden/Toyota got their ratings....so the real question is why the hell haven't Ford done the same?

The 3.0 Litre V6 commodore complies....so how can a more efficient less polluting 2.0litre Falcon not comply? The 3.0litre Holden V6 is officially only Euro IV.

[2011G6E]

People look at that story and don't start digging into the fine detail depths of Euro 5 regs...they will simply say "But...it uses less fuel and emits less of the evil CO2 the government has been going on about...", full stop.

If they're worried about sales to the public, perhaps Ford could drop it's spending on sports sponsorships of football teams and meaningless crap like that (if they are truly worried about their companies future) and spend the money on advertising...really hammer the ad's for the big cars as they have in decades past, and let people know that you can still have a "big car" with the running costs of a small one.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I'd hate to think that Ford has pulled the trigger on job and production cuts just as Falcon and Territory appear to be improving...

June was a one off, July isn't looking real good. They still want 4 day weeks next month too so June was definately a typical EOFY flash in the pan.

[My poor XF]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

People look at that story and don't start digging into the fine detail depths of Euro 5 regs...they will simply say "But...it uses less fuel and emits less of the evil CO2 the government has been going on about...", full stop.

If they're worried about sales to the public, perhaps Ford could drop it's spending on sports sponsorships of football teams and meaningless crap like that (if they are truly worried about their companies future) and spend the money on advertising...really hammer the ad's for the big cars as they have in decades past, and let people know that you can still have a "big car" with the running costs of a small one.

So all the blue ovals all over sports teams uniforms and merchandice etc etc do nothing for the brand?

Yes they could push the falcon more (much more) but ending sponsorship of sports teams and the like would only serve to reduce brand recognition.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I'd hate to think that Ford has pulled the trigger on job and production cuts just as Falcon and Territory appear to be improving...

I hope we end up like that.. It'll mean things are getting better.. Here's to hearing about Saturday overtime in 2013!!

[The Snout]

[benoxr]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I'd hate to think that Ford has pulled the trigger on job and production cuts just as Falcon and Territory appear to be improving...

I guess it means the timing of these job losses confuses people. But what was in the agreement with the government back in January in order for FoA to receive funding? I bet there was a clause directing FoA to reduce costs across the board and labour would be the biggest cost wouldnt it? Gillard recently mentioned it could have been worse, it could have been thousands out of work had the government not been involved. Really? Did FoA suggest they may have to close up? The community can handle a scale down of 440 but definitely not thousands. Its a scale down, the same across the industry and other manufacturing sectors. (same way they phased out the Falcon nameplate)

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by I6DOHC

The whole point with Ecoboost ratings by the Green Vehicle Guide (government ratings) is that it doesn't have to be Euro V compliant, it's just that Ford have to supply the necessary tests/information so the pollution rating can be upgraded.

This has to be how Holden/Toyota got their ratings....so the real question is why the hell haven't Ford done the same?

The 3.0 Litre V6 commodore complies....so how can a more efficient less polluting 2.0litre Falcon not comply? The 3.0litre Holden V6 is officially only Euro IV.

I think you'll find that work done by Holden and Toyota on their international engines
means that they both comply to US EPA Tier 2 Bin 5 which is actually tighter than Euro 6.


This link to the applicable table on the government website shows that those two vehicles
not only comply to Euro 4 but comply to Euro 6 or beyond are given a better or higher score,
hence the beyond Euro 6 notation. Now since Ecoboost was assessed locally only to Euro 4,
it doesn't get extra credit...even if it unofficially meets or exceeds those higher regs..


The problem is that governments have grown a conscience in the past few years and decided
that all their vehicles must be low CO2 choices and low pollution levels . So the bean counters
search through data and find the least offending cost effective vehicles and buy them.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by The Snout

image

Thanks for your brain dead contribution, as usual.

[I6DOHC]

Originally Posted by jpd80

This link to the applicable table on the government website shows that those two vehicles
not only comply to Euro 4 but comply to Euro 6 or beyond are given a better or higher score,
hence the beyond Euro 6 notation.

Thanks for the link and information. The picture is becoming a bit clearer.....I think.

What I can't understand is the 2.0 litre Ecoboost is also an international engine that meets Euro V standards, proven to do so in other applications. While it seems Holden/Toyota can (get a free kick and?) have their engines rated to "Euro 6 or beyond" by the government on the back of their international testing....but Ford can't get "Euro V"?

What is the decider where you can accept some international ratings for engines but not others?

If Ford were able to obtain this same dispensation, should they not get a rating of 7.5 as applicable to Euro V compliance? This would at least tip them over the arbitrary limit set by the government currently excluding them from some fleets.

Australia doesn't have the facility to test for Euro V any local vehicles here, but that means we can't test for Euro VI and beyond.

[csv8]

Ford's 'green' Falcon fails to meet fleet guidelines

Date
July 18, 2012



The new four-cylinder Ford Falcon, developed with millions of dollars of federal government "green car" funding, is not being bought by NSW government departments because it does not meet their environmental guidelines.


http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...717-228j5.html

[I6DOHC]

Originally Posted by csv8

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...717-228j5.html

Only 35 per cent of the federal government's 14,115 fleet vehicles are Australian-made.

This is absolutely criminal. I knew it was bad, but not to this extent.

Our own government not supporting the industry it publicly states it's trying to save. Imagine if in Japan/Germany governments sold out their local industry to the same level.

Kind of makes you wonder if it is worth organising some sort of petition to send to the government bodies (& opposition parties).

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by I6DOHC

This is absolutely criminal. I knew it was bad, but not to this extent.

Our own government not supporting the industry it publicly states it's trying to save. Imagine if in Japan/Germany governments sold out their local industry to the same level.

Kind of makes you wonder if it is worth organising some sort of petition to send to the government bodies (& opposition parties).

I wasn't surprised...for example, apart from highway patrol cars (usually HSV or FPV sedans) most police cars you see nowadays are Aurions...
Queensland Rail would probably be one of the bigger buyers of Prados...over the four and a half years I've been in the job out here we've had dozens of them. There's no "Australian" car that does what it can do...a Territory wouldn't count...so there's no choice but to purchase what is best for the job.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by I6DOHC

This is absolutely criminal. I knew it was bad, but not to this extent.

Our own government not supporting the industry it publicly states it's trying to save. Imagine if in Japan/Germany governments sold out their local industry to the same level.

Kind of makes you wonder if it is worth organising some sort of petition to send to the government bodies (& opposition parties).

Hyundai and Corolla are fairly popular with government departments, Dept Managers will argue they are saving the public millions..

[I6DOHC]

In all fairness, Queensland Rail is just one state department of many. I don't have an argument when it comes to fit for purpose purchases and clearly in the field there would be a requirement to have such vehicles.

(I do remember a time though when QR workers knocked about in ford/holden utes as well as 4wd...the good old days!)

For interest the actual breakdown of the federal government vehicle usage is as per the attached image from this web site :http://www.finance.gov.au/vehicle-le...tatistics.html

In summary the Federal government fleet is 88.5% made up of passenger & light commerical vehicles. Ford/Holden/Toyota locally produce these types of vehicles. Ecoboost => Passenger vehicle.

Currently only 35.05% of the fleet is australian made.

The maths is simple. The Australian government should have 12492 Australian made vehicles on the books, instead they only have 4948.

Maybe not criminal, but it surely isn't very 'Australian'?

As a matter of interest I am going to research this across ALL levels of government. It's not just State & Federal, but the local councils also have a role to play in supporting Australian manufacturing. Perhaps a topic for another thread....

[bingoTE50]

I really do not give a flying f... about them being Euro 5 or 6 , the government should be supporting our local industry . Do they not realise that the handouts they give out might actually reduce or disappear if they give a directive to support locally manufactured vehicles . I just don't get it.

[Luke Plaizier]

I read that article and took it as a sledge against the NSW government.

I mean, the car uses less fuel and produces less CO2? What else is measured?

That says to me the NSW government is either incompetent or have credentials for 'green' cars that are incorrect. I certainly like the earlier idea of forcing the Green rating to include the environmental impact of shipping.

I hope Drive keeps looking into this to find out exactly why the Falcon does not comply. If the Commodore engine is compliant overseas for it's installation in Australia, why isn't the same case available for the Ecoboost 4? Why are Australian testing centres needed for the Falcon but not the Commodore? Is it because the Falcon has a custom tune in the Ecoboost?

Could Ford have already known about this before now - ie is this why they had estimated only 2000 in the first year on sale?

Ford US had a major marketting campaign to sell the merits of the V6 Ecoboost in the F150. I was expecting a similar campaign in Australia and was thinking that Ford Oz was holding back for the Ecoboost marketting onslaught.

Instead - we have nothing bar a strip on the FPR cars in the V8Supercars.

Has anyone heard anything from Ford Oz Marketting to find out why we see no marketting on the Falcon in the media at all?


Lukeyson

[falconnut]

I doubt we will ever hear anything out of any of the fords as they are keeping their next generation of global car platforms very close to their chest.

Such a shame the Falcon and Territory are dying just because of wheat seems to be like good old fashioned ignorance.

Ford Australia are so stuck in the mud i am surprised they can do anything.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by falconnut

I doubt we will ever hear anything out of any of the fords as they are keeping their next generation of global car platforms very close to their chest.

Such a shame the Falcon and Territory are dying just because of wheat seems to be like good old fashioned ignorance.

Ford Australia are so stuck in the mud i am surprised they can do anything.

As Falcon declines, the imports seem to be filling the sales gap, maybe a change of guard is happening right before our eyes..
Now if only they could give dealers the stock and models they are screaming out for..

Food for thought:
Very few falcons over $40,000 are sold, stuff like XR6T, G6E, G6ET and of course the FPVs..
The bulk of Falcons sold are Sub $40,000 vehicles, either fleet or retail - it is these vehicles
that are taking the huge hit in numbers....

But conversely,
the bulk of Territorys sold are diesels with a starting price well over $40,000 and more
like $50,000 for mid/high/AWD models. the base I-6 RWD is the only model selling below $40,000

Perhaps instead of focusing on what we are losing with falcon, more interesting variants of the Territory
should be explored, maybe a RWD XR5 or even an XR6 Turbo Territory or simply a RWD SR to get I-6 sales going..

[Resurrection]

Time for all of us to contact our local MP and inform them that it is not acceptable the government is not using Australian made cars.

[jpd80]

Maybe Ford should fight fire with fire and have Fiesta and Focus approved to Euro 6 ,
import base models from Thailand specifically to go after Hyundai and Corolla Govco fleet sales..
1,0 litre Ecoboost will offer phenomenal fuel economy close to diesel without the premium..

[Terraplainin']

Originally Posted by jpd80

... or simply a RWD SR to get I-6 sales going..

Like this one?

Ford had a Territory Turbo and killed it. Just when I, and other purchasers of the SY TGT, were looking to change to an SZ. In fact, they killed off AWD petrol Territories altogether.

The turbos may have only been sold in small numbers towards the end of their lifecycle, but IMHO they were important halo / aspirational cars that should have been kept.

I really don’t know why you can’t have your cake and eat it to with Falcon. The formula worked for over 50 years. But not certifying Ecoboost to Euro V, when it’s a clear requirement for getting the tick on many fleets, is, as I have already said, either stupidity or sabotage. I really hope it’s the former; that can be fixed with a change in personnel. If it’s the latter, a result of a direction by Detroit, then nothing we say is likely to change the outcome. For me, that's a most depressing thought.